I think Dazzling Gleam has more use over HP Fighting, as Shadow Ball does equal damage to neutral targets as HP Fighting does to super-effective targets (other than Bisharp and Weavile) and Ghost + Fairy is perfect coverage outside of like Pyroar.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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The question is still why use it as a sweeper -at all-? What opportunities does it generate, what Pokemon does it beat, that it could not generate or beat with a stall set?
You've got Heatran to handle most fairies, wonderful. You now have a reliable switch in to Clefable (though you still need it removed before you can actually set up). Now what about Azumarill and Mega Gardevoir? M-Altaria, if they happen to carry Earthquake? What about Chansey? What about Mega Lopunny? What about Keldeo?
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Remove the Leftovers factor when considering calcs. Although that reminds me that I never actually added Tough Claws as an ability for Megagross calcs lol. Although as somebody pointed out Grass Knot may not be a horrible substitute over Thunder Punch.
A max HP/Max Def CM set functions the same way other BU or CM sets do. Basically, while they fare worse against HO teams, they tend to shine against Bulky Offense and Stall teams that rely on status and wearing things down to win against bulkier threats. MSableye can't be Taunted, Toxiced, Paralyzed or Burned, teams that rely on those as means of slowing down setup sweepers will have issues with MegaEye.
Ah shit my bad, forgot about leftovers. Grass knot seems like an awesome idea to deal with slowbro actually.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Guaranteed 2HKO after rocks with a natural nature and no investment. With a little investment it doesn't matter if rocks are up or not. That's pretty damn appealing to me, however as you mentioned without thunder punch it leaves you in a bad spot against megazard Y.
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Guaranteed 2HKO after rocks with a natural nature and no investment. With a little investment it doesn't matter if rocks are up or not. That's pretty damn appealing to me, however as you mentioned without thunder punch it leaves you in a bad spot against megazard Y.
Consider the fact that this would be m-gross which has more special attack so without rocks you're pretty much still golden.
And you think those teams wouldn't have the same issues with a non-offensive M-Sableye, who could come in and reflect their hazards and status and shut down half their team with taunt, WoW, or Toxic?
oops nvm then. So I haven't been able to test too many of the new megas out but what do you all consider something underrated right now that people might've thought was initially subpar in the first place?
Pidgeot and Steelix. Pidgeot's only two great special attacks are Hurricane and Heat Wave. I'd probably go HP Ground and Roost for the last two moves. HP Ground takes care of Heatran.
Steelix is a weird case. A Curse/Gyro Ball set is probably pretty good but good luck taking advantage of the sand.
Steelix is a weird case. A Curse/Gyro Ball set is probably pretty good but good luck taking advantage of the sand.
I mean from actually testing it through custom games like most people have been doing.
Not necessarily. You can always paint the stallier set as the safer alternative in theory, but that is not always the case in practice. In theory, PDef Venu takes on threats and spreads sleep, Toxic and Leech Seed better, while the tank set does not handle the same amount of threats as well. That's not the case in the current meta. Defensive MegaEye's stall set will be strong (I'm not saying it won't), but more offensive looks fit on more offensive teams that need a weapon against slower, bulkier teams. Getting up a Calm Mind and attacking with Shadow Ball and coverage while healing against weaker mons that can't break MegaEye allows you to maintain offensive presence, the stall sets can't do that. Not everyone wants to play long matches and stall everything to death, and +1 STAB Shadow Balls still can hurt off of it's somewhat low offensive stats when applying pressure at the same time.
I've been experimenting with Mega Altaria and I must say it's looking very promising. This is the set I've been using in my calcs:
Altaria @ Altarite
Ability: Natural Cure -> Pixilate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return / Frustration
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
So lemme explain the EVs. 136 Spe allows you to outspeed Greninja at +1 who always OHKOs with Ice Beam. 252 Atk is for as much power as possible. 120 HP gives you an odd HP number for less SR damage as well as also improving your newfound bulk significantly. It allows you to take on both forms of Mega Charizard (while avoiding the 2HKO from X's Flare Blitz) which is one of M-Altaria's cool niches.
Now onto the moves. DDance is pretty self explanatory. Boost your speed and attack. Return is your preferred STAB move as Dragon/Fairy is pretty redundant coverage. Earthquake is there for steel types that otherwise wall you and Fire Blast hits pokemon like Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor pretty hard, being guaranteed 2HKOs (or in Scizor's case an OHKO) on all of them. Flamethrower could also be used if you want consistency and a 100% accurate fire move.
Naive nature is to boost speed at the cost of some SpD, however any powerful super effective special attack such as Gengar's Sludge Wave or Greninja's Ice Beam OHKO you regardless.
Some things to note with this set is that speedy Heatran with an Air Balloon w/ Taunt + Will-o-wisp shut you down. You could run more speed at the cost of some HP but that's completely up to you. Another thing is that 252+ Mega Scizor cannot OHKO you doing 69.1 - 82.2% with Bullet Punch. Final thing to note is that Charizard Y and Talonflame both resist this set but cannot do much back. Fire Blast in the sun does 61.9% max while a +1 Return won't tickle. As for Talonflame, Choice Band Brave Bird does 79.7% max while a +1 Return does 75.7% max right back. (So it should kill after recoil. Don't quote me on that though.) Life Orb variants do less so these Pokemon shouldn't be too much of a problem for M-Altaria.
Let me know what you guys think. Feedback is more than welcome as well as any ideas for more efficient EVs.
Altaria @ Altarite
Ability: Natural Cure -> Pixilate
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return / Frustration
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
So lemme explain the EVs. 136 Spe allows you to outspeed Greninja at +1 who always OHKOs with Ice Beam. 252 Atk is for as much power as possible. 120 HP gives you an odd HP number for less SR damage as well as also improving your newfound bulk significantly. It allows you to take on both forms of Mega Charizard (while avoiding the 2HKO from X's Flare Blitz) which is one of M-Altaria's cool niches.
Now onto the moves. DDance is pretty self explanatory. Boost your speed and attack. Return is your preferred STAB move as Dragon/Fairy is pretty redundant coverage. Earthquake is there for steel types that otherwise wall you and Fire Blast hits pokemon like Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor pretty hard, being guaranteed 2HKOs (or in Scizor's case an OHKO) on all of them. Flamethrower could also be used if you want consistency and a 100% accurate fire move.
Naive nature is to boost speed at the cost of some SpD, however any powerful super effective special attack such as Gengar's Sludge Wave or Greninja's Ice Beam OHKO you regardless.
Some things to note with this set is that speedy Heatran with an Air Balloon w/ Taunt + Will-o-wisp shut you down. You could run more speed at the cost of some HP but that's completely up to you. Another thing is that 252+ Mega Scizor cannot OHKO you doing 69.1 - 82.2% with Bullet Punch. Final thing to note is that Charizard Y and Talonflame both resist this set but cannot do much back. Fire Blast in the sun does 61.9% max while a +1 Return won't tickle. As for Talonflame, Choice Band Brave Bird does 79.7% max while a +1 Return does 75.7% max right back. (So it should kill after recoil. Don't quote me on that though.) Life Orb variants do less so these Pokemon shouldn't be too much of a problem for M-Altaria.
Let me know what you guys think. Feedback is more than welcome as well as any ideas for more efficient EVs.
So from my experience in using Mega Beedrill in custom matches, it is VERY threatening, but it needs protect or else you'll never get to Mega Evolve. Scizor, a common poke, also stops it in it's tracks but that's why you run MagDrill which is amazing in my testing. It's really an all-or-nothing pokemon. It either does hardly anything all game or it completely reks.
So they are only three mega's that I'm really interested in and those are Salamence, Beedril, and Metagross. I want to talk about each of them and my opinion on them.
So after seeing their stats on pokemon showdown and assuming they are correct...
Salamence
Salamence is a monster as expected. But I'm upset that it got a small increase in attack, though that could be a good thing because if it was higher it could possibly be more "broken" than it may be already. Obviously the only pokemon to compare salamence to is pinsir because of their ability, so let's compare the two.
Let's see what Mega salamence has over mega pinsir.
1) Better Bulk
2) Faster Speed
3) Possibly Better Typing
4) Not as weak to rocks
5) High special attack enabling it to run mixed
Things Mega Pinsir has over Mega Salamence
1) Slightly Stronger Attack
2) Access to Swords Dance making it increase its attack faster than mence
3) Has priority to prevent it from being picked off by most other priority users.
That's all that I can think of for now.
Everyone is saying that Mega salamence is way better than pinsir but I'm not so sure yet. I'm definitely going to replace Pinsir for Mence just to test which one would be better. But for now the best thing I see checking/countering mence is Rhyperior, though if one chooses to run a mixed mega mence with draco, then that would hurt. And of course life orb mamoswine is also a check.
Beedrill
I'm mostly excited by Beedrill and also a bit surprised that it got a massive speed and attack boost from 75 to 145 in speed and 90 to 150 in attack has adaptability as its ability. I can see this being a really strong U-turn user and has access to moves like swords dance, pursuit, and knock off. Can also use poison jab for it's other stab attack.
The downsides to mega beedrill are its low speed before mega evolving. It's seems like it would be tough to send it in and mega evolve to get its speed boost. You may have a chance to mega evolve it if you are playing against stall or balance where they might have something like ferrothorn or sylveon, but with offensive teams it may be harder. Also it needs support from a pokemon that can get rid of hazards since taking stealth rocks every turn it comes in will limit its
survivability.
Metagross
Metagross seems like it would be a fun mega to play around with. With its all around increase in stats especially in speed, it doesn't need to use agility like it did in gen 4 and 5 making able to use more coverage moves. 110 is a good speed tier making it out-speed pokemon like terrakion and keldeo and killing them with Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt. Its ability tough claws are also great as it increases its contact moves by 33 percent, though clear body was okay too preventing it from being intimidated.
I think this set would be a good set for mega metagross
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch/ice punch/thunder punch
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
Power up punch is nice as it can increase its attack though thunder punch/ice punch maybe be more preferred as it can hit skarmory and landorus better. Even though EQ doesn't get boosted by tough claws, it's necessary to hit
So after seeing their stats on pokemon showdown and assuming they are correct...
Salamence
Salamence is a monster as expected. But I'm upset that it got a small increase in attack, though that could be a good thing because if it was higher it could possibly be more "broken" than it may be already. Obviously the only pokemon to compare salamence to is pinsir because of their ability, so let's compare the two.
Let's see what Mega salamence has over mega pinsir.
1) Better Bulk
2) Faster Speed
3) Possibly Better Typing
4) Not as weak to rocks
5) High special attack enabling it to run mixed
Things Mega Pinsir has over Mega Salamence
1) Slightly Stronger Attack
2) Access to Swords Dance making it increase its attack faster than mence
3) Has priority to prevent it from being picked off by most other priority users.
That's all that I can think of for now.
Everyone is saying that Mega salamence is way better than pinsir but I'm not so sure yet. I'm definitely going to replace Pinsir for Mence just to test which one would be better. But for now the best thing I see checking/countering mence is Rhyperior, though if one chooses to run a mixed mega mence with draco, then that would hurt. And of course life orb mamoswine is also a check.
Beedrill
I'm mostly excited by Beedrill and also a bit surprised that it got a massive speed and attack boost from 75 to 145 in speed and 90 to 150 in attack has adaptability as its ability. I can see this being a really strong U-turn user and has access to moves like swords dance, pursuit, and knock off. Can also use poison jab for it's other stab attack.
The downsides to mega beedrill are its low speed before mega evolving. It's seems like it would be tough to send it in and mega evolve to get its speed boost. You may have a chance to mega evolve it if you are playing against stall or balance where they might have something like ferrothorn or sylveon, but with offensive teams it may be harder. Also it needs support from a pokemon that can get rid of hazards since taking stealth rocks every turn it comes in will limit its
survivability.
Metagross
Metagross seems like it would be a fun mega to play around with. With its all around increase in stats especially in speed, it doesn't need to use agility like it did in gen 4 and 5 making able to use more coverage moves. 110 is a good speed tier making it out-speed pokemon like terrakion and keldeo and killing them with Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt. Its ability tough claws are also great as it increases its contact moves by 33 percent, though clear body was okay too preventing it from being intimidated.
I think this set would be a good set for mega metagross
Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch/ice punch/thunder punch
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
Power up punch is nice as it can increase its attack though thunder punch/ice punch maybe be more preferred as it can hit skarmory and landorus better. Even though EQ doesn't get boosted by tough claws, it's necessary to hit
Fair enough. It's all theorymon anyway - we'll see soon enough.
Even though most people see the most potential for Mega Sableye in CM sets, it could also work as a dedicated anti-SR Pokemon, as it can wall many SR setters, such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Chansey, Celebi, Terrakion, and Hippowdon. With a specially bulky spread, Mega Sableye even walls SR Clefable (barely) and SR Heatran, and even though it can't do much to Clefable, it can cripple Heatran with Knock Off and slowly KO it. And even with a SpD spread, it still has good enough bulk to prevent SR from defensive Lando-T, and any passive SR setters (Chansey, Celebi, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Ferrothorn). Knock Off / Recover / WoW are musts on such a set, while the are many options for the last slot. Taunt can be used, to shut down stallbreakers such as Gliscor, Mew, and Talonflame, all of which Mega Sableye walls easily, and let another Pokemon come in and deal with them, as well as shut down any defensive Pokemon that Mega Sableye walls but can't beat one on one, so that another teammate can safely come in and take care of it. Foul Play can be used to prevent SD Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Refresh / Sub DD Mega Salamence, Sub Mega Gyarados, Sub Mega Heracross, and SubSD Hawlucha from setting up on you. Sucker Punch is a decent option for very passive stall teams that have no other way of dealing with speedy sweepers and has great synergy with Magic Bounce. Metal Burst can net surprise kills, as Mega Sableye is surprisingly hard to OHKO. Toxic can let Mega Sableye beat more quickly the defensive Pokemon it walls instead of going in a PP stall war, such as Chansey, Hippowdon, etc, forcing them out eventually, as well as crippling special attackers and Fire-types.
Aside from preventing SR from going up, Mega Sableye walls most stallbreakers, such as Mew, Heatran, Gliscor, and Talonflame, as well as some very threatening sweepers / wallbreakers, such as Mega Gallade (only counter to this beast actually), Mega Medicham, Breloom, Bisharp, SD Mega Scizor, and Iron Tail-less Lucario.
And with Mega Sableye's great overall bulk, it's not hard at all to lead with it, so that you can MEvolve asap and make sure you can actually keep SR off the field when the SR user comes into the field.
For all those reasons, Mega Sableye seems as a fantastic Pokemon for stall. Keeping SR off the field without any passive play (Rapid Spin and Defog users give free turns) is wonderful, as it gives way more freedom for switching around and makes using great defensive Pokemon that are SR weak much easier, such as stallbreaker Talonflame, TauntWoW Victini, AV Tornadus-T, and defensive Gyarados. With the physically defensive spread, all you need to do is pack a Defog / Rapid Spin user to beat Clefable and maybe Heatran (if you lack a cleric, PhD M-Sableye still walls Heatran), and you have every single SR user covered for good. Also, covering extremely threatening stallbreakers, sweepers, and wallbreakers is great, as well as access to STAB Knock Off, Taunt, and WoW.
Aside from preventing SR from going up, Mega Sableye walls most stallbreakers, such as Mew, Heatran, Gliscor, and Talonflame, as well as some very threatening sweepers / wallbreakers, such as Mega Gallade (only counter to this beast actually), Mega Medicham, Breloom, Bisharp, SD Mega Scizor, and Iron Tail-less Lucario.
And with Mega Sableye's great overall bulk, it's not hard at all to lead with it, so that you can MEvolve asap and make sure you can actually keep SR off the field when the SR user comes into the field.
For all those reasons, Mega Sableye seems as a fantastic Pokemon for stall. Keeping SR off the field without any passive play (Rapid Spin and Defog users give free turns) is wonderful, as it gives way more freedom for switching around and makes using great defensive Pokemon that are SR weak much easier, such as stallbreaker Talonflame, TauntWoW Victini, AV Tornadus-T, and defensive Gyarados. With the physically defensive spread, all you need to do is pack a Defog / Rapid Spin user to beat Clefable and maybe Heatran (if you lack a cleric, PhD M-Sableye still walls Heatran), and you have every single SR user covered for good. Also, covering extremely threatening stallbreakers, sweepers, and wallbreakers is great, as well as access to STAB Knock Off, Taunt, and WoW.
Hone Claws > Power Up Punch. Increasing the accuracy of Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt is incredibly useful. It also can't be blocked by Ghosts, which I guess isn't really a big problem unless Synthesis Gourgeist sees use.
I've been thinking- would a neo subseed spread help sceptile m any?
Sceptile @ mega stone
- timid/naive, evs up for grabs
- Leech seed
- sub
- Giga drain
- Dragon Pulse/Drain punch?
Similar to the adv spread back in '03, but newly updated. Now giga drain does much more damage with higher PP, and sceptile gets stab on its dragon moves. Likewise, drain punch might be usable for slightly better coverage and the ability to have two draining attacks. Sub seed is a tried and true strategy, especially since with a mega stone it can outspeed all non choiced competition.
That, or maybe we could go with the spread for my first competitive sceptile:
Sceptile @ mega stone
Quirky nature, 100 EV's in every stat except speed
- Leaf blade
- Focus punch
- Dragonbreath
- Frenzy plant
It was amazaaaaahhhhh (the ten year old me is squaling inside)
Sceptile @ mega stone
- timid/naive, evs up for grabs
- Leech seed
- sub
- Giga drain
- Dragon Pulse/Drain punch?
Similar to the adv spread back in '03, but newly updated. Now giga drain does much more damage with higher PP, and sceptile gets stab on its dragon moves. Likewise, drain punch might be usable for slightly better coverage and the ability to have two draining attacks. Sub seed is a tried and true strategy, especially since with a mega stone it can outspeed all non choiced competition.
Sceptile @ mega stone
Quirky nature, 100 EV's in every stat except speed
- Leaf blade
- Focus punch
- Dragonbreath
- Frenzy plant
It was amazaaaaahhhhh (the ten year old me is squaling inside)
Mega Slowbro is heavier than regular Slowbro so Grass Knot has 100 BP against it. It does 60-70% aprox
You forgot to add Fighting to Mlop. Mlop's HJK is stronger than a Azumarill's play rough
Fighting type
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My squad:
It did good in play testing but I lost to Smog Frog 's double bunny beedrill squad :'( so I was wondering if anybody can improve the team?
Reposting because new page and no one answered.
So I made this team in like 2 minutes because my bro wanted an oras team and I didn't feel like spending any significant amount of time on it. Thanks Halcyon. for the amazin salamence set, it's perf. Rest of the sets are standard.standard
It did good in play testing but I lost to Smog Frog 's double bunny beedrill squad :'( so I was wondering if anybody can improve the team?
Reposting because new page and no one answered.
That sounds solid, I think Metal Burst or Snatch could also be options. Metal Burst is a really good move as it is a Counter and Mirror Coat in one, and Sableye's low speed and Magic Bounce really helps it since Metal Burst doesn't have negative priority and Sableye can't be statused, while Snatch would be great to troll Pokemon who try to set up on you. One other option is Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch cuz priority is cool, but I think MB and Snatch are better options. I don't think Taunt is too necessary with Magic Bounce though.
I already mentioned both Sucker Punch and Metal Burst, Shadow Sneak is too weak from 85 base Attack, and Snatch is too gimmicky to work in a competitive environment.
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