There are worse things to have than a strong Dark STAB. Waterfall is a good compliment to Crunch, and it has good coverage options. Fairies stand out as the only real problem for it in general, and it does beat a lot of top threats outside of Keldeo and Azu. Not sure about the specifics, but it seems to stack up well (at +1 speed) against MegaGross, any form of Lati, both Zards, and Talon (if you run Aqua Jet) off the top of my head. I'm guessing it's going to be one of those "if you're prepared for it you should have no problems, but if you're not you're screwed" threats. Obviously if you are not prepared for something it will screw you over, but some things do that a little bit more than others.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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It gets poison fang in ORAS
Poison Fang misses out on the 2HKO on Lefties Clefable and PDefensive Sylveon. Everything outside of Azu is in the barely 2HKO/3HKO range. They almost all require decent damage rolls for 2HKOs. 50 BP isn't much, even with Strong Jaw and SE damage boosts.
Edit: if you are running Poison coveragecoverage, use Jab over Fang. Jab is essentially 5 BP strong after Strong Jaw.
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I was thinking about this earlier and Sharpedo weirdly enough seems to be the only ORAS Megas whose stats aren't exactly... ideal or optimal (unless counting Primals' bleh lower defence). All the other Megas introduced in this game are a vast improvement over XY's Mega Stats - Gardy's +20 attack, never forget - as is most clearly demonstrated in Mega Beedrill, and even the ones with both their offensive stats increased have reasons for it, such as Camerupt, Diancie and Sceptile. Heck, even Swampert's special attack boost is nice for Scald on defensive sets or hitting physical walls on offensive sets, and Latios' attack boost lets it do a weird dragon dance set.
But... Sharpedo really sticks out here for me because I really don't know what they were trying to achieve by giving slight buffs to it's defences and special attack when they could have gone with something a lot more optimal and ideal like pretty much every other Mega in this game.
Is there any real use for Sharpedo's buffed Special Attack, actually? Is Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse good with it to hit Skarmory or Slowbro or something...?
I think you really have to ask what Sharpedo provides you over Gyarados, especially now that Gyarados gets Crunch.
Mega Sharpedo: 70/140/70/110/65/105
Mega Gyarados: 95/155/109/70/130/81
Bulk wise Gyarados mops the floor with Sharpedo, having more than double the special defense as well as much better physical defense, coupled with an initial Intimidate from switching in. Dragon Dance is also far superior to using Protect to gain a Speed Boost. Strong Jaw may give a better Crunch initially and a good Ice Fang, but that power is eclipsed after one DD, and Mega Gyarados also has Mold Breaker to get past pesky defensive abilities. Sharpedo's only real advantage is being able to go mixed but Strong Jaw only boosts physical moves and it isn't likely to be particularly amazing. You may as well just use Keldeo for better mixed wallbreaking and even a better initial speed tier. Sharpedo is just utterly outclassed here unfortunately.
Mega Sharpedo: 70/140/70/110/65/105
Mega Gyarados: 95/155/109/70/130/81
Bulk wise Gyarados mops the floor with Sharpedo, having more than double the special defense as well as much better physical defense, coupled with an initial Intimidate from switching in. Dragon Dance is also far superior to using Protect to gain a Speed Boost. Strong Jaw may give a better Crunch initially and a good Ice Fang, but that power is eclipsed after one DD, and Mega Gyarados also has Mold Breaker to get past pesky defensive abilities. Sharpedo's only real advantage is being able to go mixed but Strong Jaw only boosts physical moves and it isn't likely to be particularly amazing. You may as well just use Keldeo for better mixed wallbreaking and even a better initial speed tier. Sharpedo is just utterly outclassed here unfortunately.
Sorry about the EV mistake, but seriously, not investing at all in Beedrill defenses is a crime against nature. Anything weaker than Bisharps Sucker Punch can be survived. Considering Beedrill most likely won't be OU, well you get the idea.
And how is outspeed Greninja in OU not fast enough? Is there a specific mon you have to beat speed wise?
And how is outspeed Greninja in OU not fast enough? Is there a specific mon you have to beat speed wise?
Willingly taking away Azumarill's greatest asset just to counter one Pokémon is generally not a good move, especially when said Pokémon is not very likely to be of the best in the tier.
Sap Sipper Azumarill stops many things actually. It's not supposed to be an attacker with that setup. Azumarill still has pretty good defenses, so if you invest in those a little more it can be a wall. There's more than one way to run a Pokemon.
At least it hits harder that its base form. Unlike Steelix. Fully invested mega steelix hits slighty less hard in the sand than fully invested life orb Sheer Force Steelix.
Those boosts to defenses are no joke though, it really needs the extra 30 points in SpD. Also, Sand Force has the potential to boost your best STAB move, Earthquake, which Sheer Force doesn't boost. You also get a boost to Stone Edge now.
0 SpA Sharpedo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 171-202 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I guess there's that, but that's not much. Ice Beam can be used to OHKO non-SDef Gliscor and Lando-T:
0 SpA Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 340-400 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
That's about it. Even HP Fire doesn't outpace Crunch on Ferro. Slowbro is hit harder by Crunch. Pretty much any coverage option doesn't hit as hard as fully invested SJ Crunch. That's the other thing I noticed running calcs: Crunch is really freaking powerful, and wrecks pretty much anything that doesn't resist it. Literally 2HKOs or OHKOs most of the tier.
Still seems generally outclassed, especially since it's alright defences aren't backed up with any reliable recovery. I dunno; the fact it isn't considered a viable set right now tells me something.
Base Steelix also dies to just about any special attack, and in addition, it's ground STAB isnn't powered up by Sheer Force. Unless you're running Earth Power... y-you're not doing that, are you?
Regardless, the boosted defences lets it set itself apart from Sheer Force Steelix and the whole package gives it a viable niche for once on Sand Offence imo.
To add on, Gyara's type switch upon mega evolution only serves to make it better than Sharp. Gyara's Flying typing means it can come in on a Choiced EQ (#ScarfLandT) and set up. It can also play mind games with my opponent since I can opt to run standard subDD gyara or Mega Gyara. Sad to say but Sharpedo may really be overshadowed in terms of OU viability when we compare the opportunity cost of using MSharpedo over MGyara.
Gyro Ball is arguably its best STAB move, and Stone Edge is boosted by
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I'm not sure what my friend's EV spread was, (Probably dragon dance), but 252 att evs on a Beedrill mega OHKOed his Altaria with Poison Jab.
Stone Edge does not receive a Sheer Force boost. You're thinking Rock Slide.
Stone Edge isn't boosted by Sheer force, moves with a additional critical hit rate aren't, unless other effect is with the move like Blaze Kick.
sap sipper azu is viable but p niche, and even when played defensively thick fat is usually the better option
anyway speaking of azu, the assvest set i see as falling from grace... w gunk shot on ninja, it no longer checks it reliably/at all. also w mega sableye being as bulky as it is, u gon want the power to immediately break it, so i think the CB set is going to rise in popularity as a result... and m sableye is rly fkn good so expect to see it on a regular basis
anyway speaking of azu, the assvest set i see as falling from grace... w gunk shot on ninja, it no longer checks it reliably/at all. also w mega sableye being as bulky as it is, u gon want the power to immediately break it, so i think the CB set is going to rise in popularity as a result... and m sableye is rly fkn good so expect to see it on a regular basis
I don't think the new megas will do anything to the old ones. The initial shiny new toy phase will obviously see them go down in usage but things like mega pinsir, zard x, gyarados, venusaur, and bulky SD scizor aren't going anywhere.
Has anybody been experimenting with the mega lati twins? There's very little talk about them and from what I have played and watched they aren't getting used at all.
Has anybody been experimenting with the mega lati twins? There's very little talk about them and from what I have played and watched they aren't getting used at all.
This. It's like when a new god/hero/champion is released in a MOBA: it's used in 99% of games for the first few weeks, then down to 50%, then to wherever its viability suggests it to be.
I think he made a typo; he meant Stone Edge was Sand Force boosted.
I don't really think they are directly comparable outside of typing. Mega Sharpedo is a cleaner, and even with it's lesser bulk Protect ensures it doesn't take a hit on the set-up turn as well as avoiding Taunt. Gyara is a setup sweeper, and while it has more bulk and a better initial typing, it has to worry about taking a hit on the setup and being Taunted before it can DD. Mega Gyara also has a few more common scarfers that can revenge it, where Sharpedo has to worry about that less. With a speed boosting nature, Sharp doesn't have to worry about ScarfChomp and ScarfLando-T revenging it, where Gyara does.
Just a smaller footnote, because I agree with the overall point, bulky SD Scizor is already dead. Most Mega Scizor are either totally defensive or max speed/max attack Adamant.
Referring to the Mega Latis, the only benefits the have over the base counterparts are more bulk and taking less from Knock Off. Otherwise, in my opinion, they seem like a waste of a Mega Slot and have a sheer opportunity cost due to being able to run a base Lati and another mega. The LO Latis hit harder than both megas anyway, and their speed doesn't change.
They are two completely different Pokemon. M-Gyaraods is a bulky sweeper. M-Sharpedo is a revenge killer/late-game cleaner.
Also, Jolly M-Sharpedo's Crunch 2HKO's Mega Slowbro 98% of the time, while Adamant M-Gyara only manages a 3HKO. There's quite a difference in initial power there (not to mention speed).
I think you're underestimating the bulk difference. Latias gaining 30 points to defense and 20 in SpD is crazy bulky. 80/120/150 with a speed of 110 is huge. And with access to recovery, 6 resistances and an immunity you'll find a huge difference in survivability. And a single CM boost gives you more power than LO and without recoil, again, greatly improving your longevity. CM/Roost/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting hits pretty much everything in the game bar Mega Sableye now, and Latias has the stats to boost to levels dangerous enough to overpower pretty much anything, or just stick to Dragon Pulse and Psyshock.
Outside of Thunderbolt, all Mega Gyara needs is Substitute to get enough boosts to Crunch to the same result. I'll bite that Sharpedo's initial speed and power of Crunch would make for a good revenge killer, but in that regard, why not something even faster? Greninja is far faster and his coverage makes it the best revenge killer as is, no mega slot needed.
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