OU Analyses Discussion Thread

Bulky SD Mega Scizor needs a revamp since Aegi's ban.

Personnaly I use the following spread : 248 HP / 100+ Atk / 116 Def / 44 SpD
Avoid 2HKO from LO Kyu-B and Adamant Excadrill, both after SR, and giving a jump point against Adamant Landorus-T (Jolly is better but Adamant is quite common). Most Heatran run some Spe EVs to avoid speed creeping fom Mega Scizor or outspeed Mega Venusaur and Suicune, so I don't think that speed creeping Heatran is useful.

252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mega Scizor: 126-149 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Mega Scizor: 127-150 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Mega Scizor: 135-159 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 133-157 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Only problem is

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mega Scizor: 148-175 (43.1 - 51%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Considering that Mega Scizor is supposed to beat MGardevoir:

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100+ SpD Mega Scizor: 127-150 (37 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

So instead, run 248 HP / 44 Atk / 116 Def / 100+ SDef.
 
Bullet Punch has priority and OHKO Mega Gardevoir, so I don't see the utility to avoid a 2HKO because you will take one hit max if you switch on Mega Gardevoir.

Also, your spread lacks power.
 

LeoLancaster

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Bullet Punch has priority and OHKO Mega Gardevoir, so I don't see the utility to avoid a 2HKO because you will take one hit max if you switch on Mega Gardevoir.

Also, your spread lacks power.
If you are 2HKO'd then you can only switch in once without being forced to Roost. Essentially it makes you much more predictable, which is never a good thing.

Also
100+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 109-129 (31.9 - 37.8%)
44 Atk
Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 96-114 (28.1 - 33.4%)
100+ Atk
Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 254-300 (74.4 - 87.9%)
44 Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 222-264 (65.1 - 77.4%)

You're not that much weaker, and considering the set aims to boost up to +4 or +6, the loss of power isn't too bad.
 
But if you want to switch twice, you have to factoring SR twice, and if you do that, I believe you will be 2HKOed.

So maybe an EV spread to avoid a 2HKO from Modest Mega Gardevoir without SR.

We need other opinions.
 
Jukain As much as I think Blissey is outclassed, you seem to think it still has a niche in OU for being able to beat Landorus-I and Gengar, which Chansey cannot. For this reason, I suggest that we update Blissey to reflect its niches. Its moves needs to be Soft-Boiled / Ice Beam (allows you to hit Landorus and Gengar) / Seismic Toss / Heal Bell (Toxic, Wish, or Flamethrower is also usable in the fourth slot). Blissey needs some HP investment to avoid being 2HKOd by Life Orb Latios' Psyshock. 114 HP / 252 Def / 112 SpD allows Blissey to take two Psyshocks from it, not factoring in Stealth Rock. It also reduces the chances of Blissey taking over 50% from Landorus' Focus Blast, which can be crucial if its Leftovers is knocked off. The spread also reduces Blissey's chances of getting 2HKOd by Focus Blast after Stealth Rock from over half the time to under half the time. Even if Blissey fully investments in HP, it will still be 2HKOd over half the time by Latios after Stealth Rock, so max HP is really not worth it. Hazard control should definitely be mentioned in this analysis, because with Stealth Rock up, Blissey not only risks losing to Latios, but also Lando-I as well (factoring in some prior damage, Landorus does have a chance of breaking through Blissey, assuming Focus Blast does not miss).

Do you agree with these changes?
 
Last edited:

Gourghost

Banned deucer.
Requesting Porygon-Z to get an analysis.

Basically, Porygon-Z has the strongest STAB in the entire game, that, when attached to Choice Specs, even disallows Sylveon and Latias to switch in safely, as Tri Attack guarantees the 2HKO. The only few Pokemon in the tier that are capable of taking its hits well, are Chansey and Heatran, though the latter one is 3HKOed by Hidden Power Fighting. Few calcs here:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 252-298 (69.2 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 170-200 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Ferrothorn's only recovery is in Leech Seed, that recovers it still too less in order to live a third hit.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 252-300 (73.9 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's second niche it has over other Special Attackers, such as Mega-Charizard-Y, Landorus, and Mega Gardevoir, is its great coverage. There is only a single Pokemon immune to its main STAB, Gengar, that is actually 2HKOed by either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Pokemon that resist Tri Attack, mainly Rock- and- Steel-types, are hit more effectively by Hidden Power Fighting. The combination of BoltBeam grants neutral coverage against almost everything.

It is kinda slow, I know, but still outspeeds a few notable Pokemon (Max Speed Adamant Dragonite, Max Speed Adamant Diggersby, Max Speed Jolly Bisharp, and max Speed Mamoswine)

I'd like to hear opinions about this.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Requesting Porygon-Z to get an analysis.

Basically, Porygon-Z has the strongest STAB in the entire game, that, when attached to Choice Specs, even disallows Sylveon and Latias to switch in safely, as Tri Attack guarantees the 2HKO. The only few Pokemon in the tier that are capable of taking its hits well, are Chansey and Heatran, though the latter one is 3HKOed by Hidden Power Fighting. Few calcs here:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 252-298 (69.2 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 170-200 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Ferrothorn's only recovery is in Leech Seed, that recovers it still too less in order to live a third hit.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 252-300 (73.9 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's second niche it has over other Special Attackers, such as Mega-Charizard-Y, Landorus, and Mega Gardevoir, is its great coverage. There is only a single Pokemon immune to its main STAB, Gengar, that is actually 2HKOed by either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. Pokemon that resist Tri Attack, mainly Rock- and- Steel-types, are hit more effectively by Hidden Power Fighting. Dragons are taken care of by Ice Beam (OHKOes non-defensive Dragonite while Multiscale isnt activated yet).

It is kinda slow, I know, but still outspeeds a few notable Pokemon (Max Speed Adamant Dragonite, Max Speed Adamant Diggersby, Max Speed Jolly Bisharp, and max Speed Mamoswine)

I'd like to hear opinions about this.
Alright, so when considering why one would use porygon-z on an OU team you have to compare it to other Pokemon that share the same role. You are portraying PZ as a wallbreaker, so a good comparison would be Choice Specs Keldeo. While they both have fairly spammable stab moves, Keldeo is better as a wallbreaker because it's typing gives it many useful resistances to Aqua jet, sucker punch, iron head, stone edge, etc. Porygon-Zs mono normal typing only gives it an immunity to Ghost-type attacks, and the most common ghost type attacker in OU is Gengar which outpspeeds non-scarfed PZ and 2HKOs with Sludge Wave or OHKOes with Focus Blast. You also mentioned that it's speed tier is pretty bad, and I really don't have to repeat much considering how fast-paced the OU metagame is.
Overall, I don't see why I would use PZ over a different Pokemon that shares the same role (strong special attacker). Another thing to note is that other special attackers such as Lati@s, Thundurus, and Landorus-I all provide utility in the forms of Defog, T-Wave, and Stealth Rock support.
 

Gourghost

Banned deucer.
Overall, I don't see why I would use PZ over a different Pokemon that shares the same role (strong special attacker). Another thing to note is that other special attackers such as Lati@s, Thundurus, and Landorus-I all provide utility in the forms of Defog, T-Wave, and Stealth Rock support.
As I said, PZ has great coverage, unlike Keldeo, that only has; few water-type options, single good fighting-type attack, low powered ice-type attacks. And why mentioning Defog,T-Wave, Stealth Rock support? Sticky Web support is just great for PZ and I think, there are Pokemon that set up SR better than Landorus-I does.
 

boltsandbombers

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As I said, PZ has great coverage, unlike Keldeo, that only has; few water-type options, single good fighting-type attack, low powered ice-type attacks. And why mentioning Defog,T-Wave, Stealth Rock support? Sticky Web support is just great for PZ and I think, there are Pokemon that set up SR better than Landorus-I does.
Another thing about Keldeo is secret sword, allowing to it hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Chansey ridiculously hard. I mentioned those moves because the Pokemon hit hard and provide support at the same time, which PZ cannot do. You can say that sticky web support is helpful for any Pokemon with subpar speed, it's not like PZ is an exception.
 

Gourghost

Banned deucer.
Another thing about Keldeo is secret sword, allowing to it hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Chansey ridiculously hard. I mentioned those moves because the Pokemon hit hard and provide support at the same time, which PZ cannot do. You can say that sticky web support is helpful for any Pokemon with subpar speed, it's not like PZ is an exception.
Basically, Keldeo is beaten by a lot more stuff, like Dnite if lacking ice coverage which isn't standard, Mega-Venusaur, most importantly AZUMARILL, Latios can just OHKO it while Icy Wind just does 2-3HKO.

On the overall, I think, that Keldeo is beaten by most highly-ranked Pokemon (Latios, Azumarill, Mega-Venusaur, Sylveon, Pinsir-Mega)
 
Basically, Keldeo is beaten by a lot more stuff, like Dnite if lacking ice coverage which isn't standard, Mega-Venusaur, most importantly AZUMARILL, Latios can just OHKO it while Icy Wind just does 2-3HKO.

On the overall, I think, that Keldeo is beaten by most highly-ranked Pokemon (Latios, Azumarill, Mega-Venusaur, Sylveon, Pinsir-Mega)
This really isnt a debate on Keldeo, it's trying to prove that Porygon-Z isnt all too viable. It's just outclassed by things like Latios, Latias, Landorus-I, Thundurus, Keldeo, Greninja, and many other things with better coverage, bulk, speed, and typing.
 

boltsandbombers

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Basically, Keldeo is beaten by a lot more stuff, like Dnite if lacking ice coverage which isn't standard, Mega-Venusaur, most importantly AZUMARILL, Latios can just OHKO it while Icy Wind just does 2-3HKO.

On the overall, I think, that Keldeo is beaten by most highly-ranked Pokemon (Latios, Azumarill, Mega-Venusaur, Sylveon, Pinsir-Mega)
Remember that Keldeo's most spammable move early on is Scald. Now tell me, would a dragonite or azumarill want to get burned? Hell no. Keldeo carries coverage moves to hit its checks based on what it's team needs. It either carries icy wind to hit lati@s and dragonite, or HP flying to smack mega venusaur. Sylveon is highly outclassed by clefable for various reasons which I shouldn't have to explain. Also, mega pins it does not beat Keldeo as it can only switch in on secret sword or risks being burned with scald or KOd with hydro pump. It revenge kills it with quick attack, that's all.
 
Yep, I'm pretty sure once the game is released we'll start doing the analyses for ORAS megas, and revamps for mons that got new tutor moves.
Okay, I figured as much but I honestly don't see the point in waiting whatsoever. We are already developing an ORAS OU metagame with the capability of playing ORAS OU already, and we also even have a thread for the ORAS OU metagame discussion, ORAS OU viability ranking thread, good pokemon cores the in ORAS OU metagame, and general threads for each respective ORAS mega evolution. I know I'm being impatient, but the analysis writing process already takes long enough and there is no reason not to start writing analyses already for them either. We might as well start working on them...
 
I had no idea where to post this, so I just assumed put it here.

I just wanted to let someone important know that there is a mistake on the xy strategy dex for trevenant. On the sub-seed set, under Usage Tips, it says this
"When using Trevenant, try to get a Substitute as fast as possible, as it allows Trevenant to stall Pokemon who cannot do over 75% damage to it"

I'm pretty sure that thats supposed to say 25%, not 75%, since sub is broken past 25% damage, not 75% damage.
 
I had no idea where to post this, so I just assumed put it here.

I just wanted to let someone important know that there is a mistake on the xy strategy dex for trevenant. On the sub-seed set, under Usage Tips, it says this
"When using Trevenant, try to get a Substitute as fast as possible, as it allows Trevenant to stall Pokemon who cannot do over 75% damage to it"

I'm pretty sure that thats supposed to say 25%, not 75%, since sub is broken past 25% damage, not 75% damage.
I get that you don't know where to post this, this thread is for these mistakes :)
 

Lumari

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I had no idea where to post this, so I just assumed put it here.

I just wanted to let someone important know that there is a mistake on the xy strategy dex for trevenant. On the sub-seed set, under Usage Tips, it says this
"When using Trevenant, try to get a Substitute as fast as possible, as it allows Trevenant to stall Pokemon who cannot do over 75% damage to it"

I'm pretty sure that thats supposed to say 25%, not 75%, since sub is broken past 25% damage, not 75% damage.
i fixed it, thanks for reporting this ^_^
(but yeah, in the future this sort of thing should go in the small objective changes thread)
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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Actually, I'm pretty sure this is correct. If the opponent deals less than 75% damage to Trevenant, it will get a Sub up, and hopefully, Harvest will activate. Then, it will be able to get another sub up thanks to the Sitrus Berry recovery ginving it exactly enough HP back to give it another Sub, etc... all the while presumably stalling out its opponent with Leech Seed/WoW. Could be clearer but I'm pretty sure this is what the person who wrote the analysis meant.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure this is correct. If the opponent deals less than 75% damage to Trevenant, it will get a Sub up, and hopefully, Harvest will activate. Then, it will be able to get another sub up thanks to the Sitrus Berry recovery ginving it exactly enough HP back to give it another Sub, etc... all the while presumably stalling out its opponent with Leech Seed/WoW. Could be clearer but I'm pretty sure this is what the person who wrote the analysis meant.
OH I see, I figured the idea was to keep it in on something that couldnt deal 25% to it. While, i suppose that still is ideal, i can see your point, thanks
 

Martin

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I've got the Mega Latios analysis, but should I just do an ORAS revamp for it instead? I'm writing it as a mega one for now, but should I change it to a revamp due to the fact we're now doing them for ORAS?
 
So it seems people are on the fenxe about giving Mega Steelix an analysis, judging that it's not in the analysis reservation index. I really think it deserves an analysis. Sure, it's nearly completely defensively outclassed by Mega Aggron, but Mega Steelix nearly completely offensively outclasses Mega Aggron and I think that definitely gives it a niche on sand teams. It also has better Special Defense too c:
 

Ununhexium

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So it seems people are on the fenxe about giving Mega Steelix an analysis, judging that it's not in the analysis reservation index. I really think it deserves an analysis. Sure, it's nearly completely defensively outclassed by Mega Aggron, but Mega Steelix nearly completely offensively outclasses Mega Aggron and I think that definitely gives it a niche on sand teams. It also has better Special Defense too c:
Sadly is has a poor defensive typing, as Ground leaves it weak to Water-type attacks and neutral to Grass and Ice (also a few other probably that I can't think of), though it does have a nice ground immunity. It also loses out on Filter which lessens the load of taking hits. Meanwhile, Sand Force does little for Steelix, even offensively, as it is still extremely slow and prone to burns (especially scald because of the weakness)
 
Sadly is has a poor defensive typing, as Ground leaves it weak to Water-type attacks and neutral to Grass and Ice (also a few other probably that I can't think of), though it does have a nice ground immunity. It also loses out on Filter which lessens the load of taking hits. Meanwhile, Sand Force does little for Steelix, even offensively, as it is still extremely slow and prone to burns (especially scald because of the weakness)
Well for one I said it's outclassed defensively, but even then its defenses and typing are still more than exploitable. I also really don't see how Sand Force does little. With max attack that Sand Force boosted EQ stings, 2HKOing even Ferrothorn and Gyro Ball with the terrible speed has very good power against fast, offensive teams(i.e. the metagame) and it's also boosted by Sand Force. Lastly, why are you using susceptibility to Scald burns as an argument against it? Why would you ever keep in any Ground-type against a Keldeo or something lol. Nor would you keep a physical attacker in against, say, Rotom-W or Mega sableye only to get burned and crippled. It is weak to common attacking types, but look at Heatran. It's weak to Fighting and Water and it's quad weak to Ground yet it's still the tits. It might not be as good as Mega Aggron and it might also be outclassed partially, but it definitely has merits to use over Mega Aggron. In the OU viability rankings thread just read the description for a D rank Pokemon, it fits perfectly. It's at least viable, and that's all that is necessary to be granted an analysis.
 

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