Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[alexwolf]

yea mega altaria is kinda underwhelming tbh

got a decent-ish replay of swamp rain vs altaria bulky offense...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-175323749
altaria literally did nothing, not even due to horrendous misplays, but primarily because it COULDN'T do anything. altaria is looking to be a very matchup-based mon, and that's not a step in the right direction for it

The Mega Altaria user played like shit. He let his most important Pokemon, Rotom-W, which checks half of the opponent's team, get worn down to 26% health, when he could just have sent out Latios to wear down Raikou, and even if and after Latios dies (which doesn't check anything on the opposing team btw, other than Raikou itself), bring in safely Altaria to MEvo, at which point it can wall Raikou.

tl;dr Mega Altaria walls 2 / 6 of that rain team (Latias and Raikou), so it's definitely not useless or underwhelming, just played poorly.

 

[Iron Caliber]

I agree with Jukain in that M-Beedrill is definitely a threat, and something you need a check for. My problem with it is that so many things that check M-Beedrill are commonly used OU, because there's so many Pokemon that resist its STABs. Bug has a lot of great advantages over Dark types, but it hits most things neutrally and is resisted by a lot of defensive types in OU. Poison isn't a stellar attacking type to start with, and while it can OHKO Azumarill, both AV and CB Azumarill can OHKO quicker thanks to priority and SR, which M-Beedrill has an unfortunate weakness to. Priority in general is very, very bad for M-Beedrill, as its pitiful defense and HP stats can't keep it from dying in more than one attack. Bisharp's Sucker Punch kills instantly, Mamoswine Ice Shard does ~60%, M-Medicham Bullet Punch does 65%, even Diggsersby and M-Lopunny do around 60% with Quick Attack, and don't even get me started on Talonflame and M-Pinsir. A lot of Scarfers can trip M-Beedrill up too, because of how its speed caps out at 389 for Adamant, and 427 for Jolly (Jolly makes you miss out on a lot of damage, though).

If you can dodge around Beedrill's U-Turns and abuse priority and hazard damage (no levitate means Spikes works, too), M-Beedrill isn't going to stand much of a chance. The problem with it being a fast U-Turner is that it will have to switch in multiple times to be effective, and SR cancels that gameplan entirely. Extensive spin support is completely needed for M-Beedrill to be effective, but that comes with the plus of being incredibly powerful. It's going to come down to outplaying mostly, which is why I apologize if "dismissing with theorymon" seemed like my intention. There's just a lot of stigma to being something that's incredibly frail.

 

[TURBODERP]

On Mega-Sableye: Other than the Calm Mind/Shadow Ball (or Dark Pulse, depending on what you want)/WoW/Recover set, which will presumably have Max SpA and HP, what are people's thoughts on a stall/semi-stall oriented set with WoW/Foul Play/Recover/Knock Off? EV'd probably more towards the physical spectrum, but maybe there's some nice 2HKO's you can avoid with some SpD investment. STAB Knock Off and Foul Play are always nice, and you can not mega-evolve and still have Prankster WoW and be fairly bulky.

Good partners would be ones that can beat Heatran and Clefable consistently, as the former's Lava Plume even uninvested will eventually burn and cause a 2HKO, while the latter just destroys with Moonblast and can set up on the defensive variant of Mega-Sableye I said.

Ironically, a more offensively oriented Heatran might be a great partner simply because you can run Earth Power to beat your fellow Heatrans and Flash Cannon to beat Clefables. You could actually run the 12HP/252 SpA/244 Spe Heatran set with Air Balloon and run Earth Power instead of Stealth Rocks because there's decent odds you'll be able to bounce back the rocks (other moves being Flash Cannon, Taunt, and Lava Plume).

 

[kiloments]

The Mega Altaria user played like shit. He let his most important Pokemon, Rotom-W, which checks half of the opponent's team, get worn down to 26% health, when he could just have sent out Latios to wear down Raikou, and even if and after Latios dies (which doesn't check anything on the opposing team btw, other than Raikou itself), bring in safely Altaria to MEvo, at which point it can wall Raikou.

tl;dr Mega Altaria walls 2 / 6 of that rain teams (Latias and Raikou), so it definitely not useless or underwhelming, just played poorly.

In my defense for my obvious misplays and whatnot, I was doing several matches at the same time so my attention wasn't fully on one particular match. And yes I realized I played like shit that match.
M-Altaria doesn't seem too matchup dependent imo it was just me being cautious of my switchins. Overall it is a solid mon and definitely worth a try.

 

[Albacore]

MAltaria isn't hard to mega at all, it can easily come in on Keldeo, Earthquakes or really any resisted move and do the job. Also how the hell does it "not do much", it beats a large number of threats namely Latios, Latias, Garchomp, Terrakion, Landorus-T, Crawdant, Keldeo, MHera, Rotom-W, MGyara, MSableye, MManectric, Raikou, to name a few. It also has a lot of offensive presence, its Body Slams hit surprisingly hard and are very spammable thanks to the paralysis chance. All it really needs to function is Roost+Heal Bell+STAB which mans you can pretty much dedicate your last slot to whatever you want, you can run Draco Meteor to actually beat XZard, Earthquake for Heatran, Fire Blast for a number of switchins, Ice Beam to smack Landorus-I without having to Mega, Dragon Dance, Perish Song, etc... And that's not even going into the offensive sets which are pretty tricky to switch into while still retaining a lot of defensive utility. Sorry, but I don't see how this is being overhyped at all, it pretty much always pulls its weight for me, idk if everyone else is using it wrong or something.

 

[lordkira]

Quick question, what's the point of not going jolly over naive on MegaMence for DD sets without any spA investments? I understand fire blast is for things like skarmory and ferrothorn? But you don't lose any 1/2HKO's from going jolly over naive for either with fire blast.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

MAltaria isn't hard to mega at all, it can easily come in on Keldeo, Earthquakes or really any resisted move and and do the job. Also how the hell does it "not do much", it beats a large number of threats namely Latios, Garchomp, Terrakion, Landorus-T, Crawdant, Keldeo, MHera, Rotom-W, MGyara, MManectric, Raikou, to name a few. It also has a lot of offensive presence, its Body Slams hit surprisingly hard and are very spammable thanks to the paralysis chance. All it really needs to function is Roost+Heal Bell+STAB which mans you can pretty much dedicate your last slot to whatever you want, you can run Draco Meteor to actually beat XZard, Earthquake for Heatran, Fire blast for a number of switchins, Dragon Dance, Perish Song, etc... And that's not even going into the offensive sets which are pretty tricky to switch into while still retaining a lot of defensive utility. Sorry, but I don't see how this is being overhyped at all, it pretty much always pulls its weight for me, idk if everyone else is using it wrong or something.

Seconding this. Mega-Alt has been amazing for me so far. It's, by far, the most versatile of the new megas, being an offensive -and- defensive beast, with enough options to beat just about anything. Specially defensive with Roost walls Landorus, Thundurus, and Keldeo. DD + Facade 2HKOs or OHKOs a boatload of threats even without status, and with it beats the stuffing out of Megabro. The only thing it really seems to have trouble with is Megagross, and even that has to be careful about switching in on predicted Earthquakes, and doesn't like taking Body Slams to the face.

 

[Siggu]

Quick question, what's the point of not going jolly over naive on MegaMence for DD sets without any spA investments? I understand fire blast is for things like skarmory and ferrothorn? But you don't lose any 1/2HKO's from going jolly over naive for either with fire blast.

It does not matter vs Ferrothorn, but you may miss a 2HKO with Fire Blast + unboosted Return on Skarmory, having you risk a miss, but that's it.

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 67-79 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[kiloments]

Also, referring back to that replay, if I had ddanced on politoed or even tornadus, I would've won. Fire Blast takes care of what I assume is phys defensive ferrothorn. Ah well hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Wargreymon]

Mega latias can make pretty good use of a calm mind set. Kind of like clef, except toxic ruins calm mind latias.

Bold
252 HP/ 252 HP/ 4SPATK
Roost
CM
Dragon pulse
Psyshock

It's a decent-ish win condition, however she is pretty weak even at +1. She's also walled by bulky steels. Mega metagross can't 2HKO with max defence but it's risky as hell setting up in its face because of the meteor mash boost. I tried a calm mind set with max speed and spatk but she was still 2HKO'd cleanly by strong physical attacks. I also tried a bulky speedy set with 252HP and 252SPE and a timid nature but even with max HP she is still 2HKO'd by strong physical attacks. The only way to avoid this is to invest heavily in defence which ultimately leaves you slow and weak, although being slow isn't that much of a problem after a few boosts.

Any suggestions on how to improve this set? Is a calm mind set even worth running?
So far I have a hard time justifying the use of the mega twins over using their base forms + another mega.

 

[FlameUser64]

Mega latias can make pretty good use of a calm mind set. Kind of like clef.

Bold
252 HP/ 252 HP/ 4SPATK
Roost
CM
Dragon pulse
Psyshock

It's a decent-ish win condition, however she is pretty weak even at +1. She's also walled by bulky steels. Mega metagross can't 2HKO with max defence but it's risky as hell setting up in its face because of the meteor mash boost. I tried a calm mind set with max speed and spatk but she was still 2HKO'd cleanly by strong physical attacks. I also tried a bulky speedy set with 252HP and 252SPE and a timid nature but even with max HP she is still 2HKO'd by strong physical attacks. The only way to avoid this is to invest heavily in defence which ultimately leaves you slow and weak, although being slow isn't that much of a problem after a few boosts.

Any suggestions on how to improve this set? Is a calm mind set even worth running?
So far I have a hard time justifying the use of the mega twins over using their base forms + another mega.

Stored Power over Psyshock maybe? Latis get that now.

 

[Halcyon.]

Yeah not really sure why people think Mega Altaria is underwhelming, I helped imanalt and TDK build a stall team with Altaria on it and it worked just fine for me. It's really bulky, checks so much shit, including Breloom, Keldeo, Terrakion, Lati, Mega Hera, Zard Y, Zard X, Mega Mence, like do I even have to keep going? Notice that I said check and not counter, cause I know some idiot is going to quote me saying that Altaria is 2HKOed by Mence's return. It switches in on multiple moves of each of these Pokemon and fires off really powerful Hyper Voices. It has Heal Bell, Wish, Protect, Roost, Perish Song etc. all of which make it a great support mon for stall and a great answer to Mega Slowbro, Mega Diancie, and Mega Sableye for stall teams. That's not even considering it's offensive potential, which I'm sure is there, I just haven't built a team with it yet so I won't bother commenting on it. Still, Altaria seems like a really good mon to me, not sure why people have been unimpressed with it so far.

 

[Kurona]

ANYway moving onto actually relevant stuff, I'm thinking about breeding a Buneary right now in prep for ORAS - thing is, I'm having a little trouble deciding the moveset. I've already decided on Jolly 176 since that's enough to outspeed max speed jolly Weavile - adamant won't even outspeed ninja - and 252 attack. I've also decided on HJK, Return and Ice Punch, but the problem comes in that I've no idea where to put the rest of the EVs and the last attack. Lop has a lot of utility in Fake Out and Healing Wish and such but I've no idea which to choose, and I'm thinking of putting the last 82 EVs into Attack, but... eh, I dunno. Was wondering what you lot would have to say about it.

 

[Milkyrose]

Do you guys think M-Audino's stats are what it needs to make it bulky to take hits even from other megas? I'd like some feedback because I'm going to use it :)

 

[MilkyWay]

Dont know if anybody else realized this, but Glalite isnt allowed for custom games on Pokemon Showdown

 

[Dillon~]

I noticed that too, Anyone else? Says the item is not a thing haha

 

[Jaroda]

I think Lopunny's main niche will be in shattering through Mega Sableye with a super effective HJK. Now that I think about it though, Mega Gyarados can also use Mold Breaker Taunt and kind of make him a sitting duck as well. God I love Mega Gyarados.

I wonder which is better though, Lopunny or Gallade?

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 582-686 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 620-732 (96.5 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Gallade is technically stronger, unless you opt to use an Adamant Lopunny, which probably is not advised. Gallade has much better defenses and movepool, but Lopunny doesn't need much else outside HJK and Return/Facade. Which would you sooner choose?

 

[Vengeance417]

I believe that Mega Pidgeot might have a solid niche as being the fastest defogger around in OU. Also, since it gets Heat Wave, you can predict the incoming Bisharps and fry them:

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 286-338 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[alexwolf]

In case it wasn't already clear by the tittle of the thread, NO AEGISLASH TALK.

 

[Celticpride]

Still, it's more encouraged to talk about things it can actually face in the OU tier. I'd just leave Aegeslash out of the convo from this point.

I think Lopunny's main niche will be in shattering through Mega Sableye with a super effective HJK. Now that I think about it though, Mega Gyarados can also use Mold Breaker Taunt and kind of make him a sitting duck as well. God I love Mega Gyarados.

I wonder which is better though, Lopunny or Gallade?

252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 582-686 (90.6 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 620-732 (96.5 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Gallade is technically stronger, unless you opt to use an Adamant Lopunny, which probably is not advised. Gallade has much better defenses and movepool, but Lopunny doesn't need much else outside HJK and Return/Facade. Which would you sooner choose?

Lopunny has a really deep support movepool that includes Healing Wish, Baton Pass, Fake Out, Encore, and Heal Bell. It also has the elemental punches, Endure+Flail, STAB SubPunch, and Drain Punch available to it. I wouldn't say Gallade has the better movepool so quickly. Lopunny also has the better speed tier and better STAB combo. Having everything covered in two strong STABS also lets you pick any two moves you want to round out the set.

 

[DoomBringer413]

I believe that Mega Pidgeot might have a solid niche as being the fastest defogger around in OU. Also, since it gets Heat Wave, you can predict the incoming Bisharps and fry them:

252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 286-338 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pidgeot's going to get walled by Heatran, though. Unless it have HP Ground and a modest nature, it just can't get Heatran. Chansey would likely wall it, too.

 

[Karxrida]

Pidgeot's going to get walled by Heatran, though. Unless it have HP Ground and a modest nature, it just can't get Heatran. Chansey would likely wall it, too.

Chansey's not going to be a huge problem due to how passive it is combined with the fact that it's probably one of the easiest things to lure out for a Double Switch. Pairing Mega Pidgeot up with a Crawdaunt solves both your Chansey problem and your Heatran problem if you're good with prediction or don't mind using up a moveslot for U-turn.

 

[Noveliss]

I'm not really sure whether Lopunny > Gallade or Gallade > Lopuny since I've yet to give either a spin or two, although i'd still choose Lopunny because triple bunny too stronk it still has a lot more free space than Gallade and can do cool combos like Fake Out + Heal Bell or Baton Pass or whatever. Or if you want to be a low ladder ru scrub use Fake Out + Last Resort to be Ambipom 2.0. Gallade does have things that Lopunny doesn't have such as Knock Off, Bulk Up, Synchronoize for those MegaMedicham, and Swords Dance. Still, I would rather use Mega Lopunny because it looks like a stripper i really like some of the things Lopunny can do that might be valuable for offensive teams and possibly balanced/bulky offensive teams alike.
But again, i have no experience with either so it might be Gallade > Lopunny.

 

[Vengeance417]

Pidgeot's going to get walled by Heatran, though. Unless it have HP Ground and a modest nature, it just can't get Heatran. Chansey would likely wall it, too.

I don't see your point. A lot of defogging Lati sets usually have Draco, Psyshock and HP Fire, which is also walled by Heatran. All you need to do is pair Mega Pidgeot up with someone to deal with Heatran, like you do with ANY Pokemon that needs a good teammate.

 

[666lumberjack]

I've been testing Baton Pass MLop + Specs Gothitelle + Specs Keldeo and it seems like a really potent offensive core. Lopunny lures in a variety of defensive pokemon that can either be trapped and killed or exploited by Keldeo to fire off massive attacks and weaken the enemy team. A lot of things that check Lopunny also check Keldeo, and once they are removed it's really easy to set the opposing team up for a Lopunny sweep.