By the way Cloud_Nine987 the EVs for mega sceptile on the google doc are incorrect, it requires 136 atk evs to OHKO sdef heatran after stealth rock, not 80
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
Earlier today someone asked if a Jolly Nature instead of Naive would cause MMence to miss any important KOs and the only thing was that Skarmory required two Fire Blasts instead of one Fire Blast and a Return/Frustration. That made me wonder are there any KOs missed by using Flamethrower over Fire Blast?
You used regular Gyarados in that calc, not Mega Gyarados. Here is the actual calc:
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino: 202-238 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
Wait, why is it 0 Def too...? It should look like this: +1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 151-178 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So even if rocks are up, Mega Gyarados has to flinch.
Granted, each of these Megas would have a way to circumvent Mega Audino, whether it would be with Substitute, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, etc., so Mega Audino would be a shaky check to those offensive Pokemon at best. Which is why I mentioned that it may find a home on stall teams where Mega Audino's flaws are mitigated somewhat by teammates that can cover its weaknesses and allow it the flexibility to check the Pokemon it wants to check, rather than trying to do everything at once as a standalone wall.
So even if rocks are up, Mega Gyarados has to flinch.
The context of the discussion was whether or not Mega Audino could take hits from other Megas. It can, and when checking those Megas, it would also run movesets optimized to beat them. For example, why are we switching into DD sweepers and not packing Thunder Wave? What business would a physically defensive Pokemon have switching into Mega Gardevoir? Who runs Fairies with Toxic when their prime switch-ins are Steel types?
Granted, each of these Megas would have a way to circumvent Mega Audino, whether it would be with Substitute, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, etc., so Mega Audino would be a shaky check to those offensive Pokemon at best. Which is why I mentioned that it may find a home on stall teams where Mega Audino's flaws are mitigated somewhat by teammates that can cover its weaknesses and allow it the flexibility to check the Pokemon it wants to check, rather than trying to do everything at once as a standalone wall.
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Can physical sceptile make an impact? and what could be the most common set?
blinkie
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ dank meme crew
Mega Audino is simply going to be way too passive in the ORAS meta it is just setup fodder for a lot of stuff, not to mention mega Altaria is probably better, as it actually has an offensive presence...
Wish Protect simply sucks I remember people used it on Chansey a lot but eventually everyone just gave up later and used Wish and Softboiled. IMO its not worth using Audino as your mega when you can do somewhat the same job with something like Chansey+CroBro which actually seems like a pretty decent core to me.
Wish Protect simply sucks I remember people used it on Chansey a lot but eventually everyone just gave up later and used Wish and Softboiled. IMO its not worth using Audino as your mega when you can do somewhat the same job with something like Chansey+CroBro which actually seems like a pretty decent core to me.
I definitely would advise against a physical only Mega Sceptile build, it doesn't play to the pokemon's strengths. You should really consider having at least one special STAB move to benefit from his SpA stat and Lightning Rod. Mixed sets are the way to go in my opinion, possibly just 4 Attacks even, or Substitute + 3 Attacks.
Yeah, Mega Audino is similar to Cresselia in that it's really bulky but it does not ultimately accomplish much.
Mega Altaria, on the other hand, sort of reminds me of Clefable, in that it has the right ability, typing and movepool to make an impact in OU, but it's not dominating (Or broken) just because of its stats...
I'm not sure about a full physical set, but given his reasonably high base attack and the fact that he has Swords Dance, a mixed set with something like
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk/ 252 Spe
Naive / Hasty Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power Fire / Rock Slide / Drain Punch
- Earthquake
might be interesting (too tired to come up with an optimal moveset for coverage). Full physical seem to have a small case of Physical Greninja syndrome: sounds good on paper, then you realize that it has few good physical moves to really utilize.
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how to mega gallade: an in-depth guide by me
step one: take a successful team with mega medicham
step two: replace with mega gallade
step three: profit
but really tho rip medicham, gallade too good. medicham + bisharp? nah son, gallade + bisharp. medicham + rotom-w + talonflame? get urself a 'llade.
step one: take a successful team with mega medicham
step two: replace with mega gallade
step three: profit
but really tho rip medicham, gallade too good. medicham + bisharp? nah son, gallade + bisharp. medicham + rotom-w + talonflame? get urself a 'llade.
So I just went through a bunch of damage calcs and the only mon's you'd miss OHKOs/2HKOs/etc. on are: Bulky Mega Scizor, Mega Aggron (if rocks aren't up), Sp Def Jirachi and Bisharp. The latter two you can just Earthquake anyway.
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 248-294 (91.1 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 204-240 (75 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 340-400 (99.1 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 136-160 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 127-151 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 204-240 (75 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 340-400 (99.1 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 136-160 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 20.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 127-151 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 105-124 (30.5 - 36%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
You still 2HKO Skarm, Exca (EQ), and 252 HP / 168 Sp Def Ferro (although you have a 12.5% chance to OHKO after Rocks with Fire Blast).
Is Adamant or Jolly considered better on Beedrill? I know the pros and cons of each nature (Adamant being outsped by +speed base 128 and higher, Jolly beating megaman etc), so I was wondering what nature the people testing it have found to be better so far?
You might want to run a better mixed set with no decreases to both attacking stats, with a Naive or Hasty nature. Plus, a 110 unboosted Attack with only a miserable 4 Attack EVs is a bit underwhelming for a mega.
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Sorry, took the export from the Dex and forgot about the nature. I'll fix that in the original post. You are right about the unboosted attack. Good news is that if you can get the turn to set up a Swords Dance your attack reaches something like 512, which still hits pretty hard. You won't be breaking a lot of walls, but it might make for a nice cleaner.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
I think something weird and new is about to happen. The speed tiers in non-mega metas are very concrete. Everything that is fast is used as much as it should be because a pokemon's usage is dictated by its merits. However, the exception is megas. There are plenty of Mega Pokemon that are worthy of better usage, but are not because only mega per team is allowed.
What I am saying is that there are Pokemon that may have speed stats that the metagame has not adapted to that can transiently go from high usage to low usage. Mega Sceptile, for example can outspeed various low speed choice scarf users and can influence speed investment on various boosting sweepers or maybe Sticky Web based teams. Well Mega Sceptile will probably see little usage due to the overwhelming number of megas that are equally as viable or better. So what can happen is that the metagame becomes accustomed to nothing being at Scep's tier or around it, and then all of a sudden a player can use this to his advantage and cause chaos.
Now this isn't totally new, Mega Aerodactyl, and Alakazam could have done this in the past (they did), but now there are just so many. Scep, Beedrill, Gallade, Metagross, Pidgeot, Lopunny, Salamence, and probably something i'm forgetting are bizarrely fast, and some better than others, but all have some degree of viability. Normally a meta would just speed up to adapt, slow scarfers and boosters like Diggy or Tyranitar would fall out of fashion, and that is that, but the huge volume of these potentially transient speed creeps is really going to be strange.
What do you think the metas reaction will be? Will the meta's trend just be to overspeed to compensate for a rare matchup to a bunch of fast attackers or will teams just concede and say "no I'll use my slower scarfer or whatever and just hope I don't run into these megas because 99% of the time, it's better than running a weaker, faster scarf user"
What I am saying is that there are Pokemon that may have speed stats that the metagame has not adapted to that can transiently go from high usage to low usage. Mega Sceptile, for example can outspeed various low speed choice scarf users and can influence speed investment on various boosting sweepers or maybe Sticky Web based teams. Well Mega Sceptile will probably see little usage due to the overwhelming number of megas that are equally as viable or better. So what can happen is that the metagame becomes accustomed to nothing being at Scep's tier or around it, and then all of a sudden a player can use this to his advantage and cause chaos.
Now this isn't totally new, Mega Aerodactyl, and Alakazam could have done this in the past (they did), but now there are just so many. Scep, Beedrill, Gallade, Metagross, Pidgeot, Lopunny, Salamence, and probably something i'm forgetting are bizarrely fast, and some better than others, but all have some degree of viability. Normally a meta would just speed up to adapt, slow scarfers and boosters like Diggy or Tyranitar would fall out of fashion, and that is that, but the huge volume of these potentially transient speed creeps is really going to be strange.
What do you think the metas reaction will be? Will the meta's trend just be to overspeed to compensate for a rare matchup to a bunch of fast attackers or will teams just concede and say "no I'll use my slower scarfer or whatever and just hope I don't run into these megas because 99% of the time, it's better than running a weaker, faster scarf user"
"well fuck you too" - Mega Sceptile
really tho i wouldn't be too concerned atm, speed is only so much. i never thought i'd say this but thankfully talonflame exists to check a lot of this speedy shit. plus, there's so many bulky mons that check these speedy mons that these fast mons don't really scare me. excluding salamence, that scares me shitless.
Offense will run more priority, plain and simple. They do now but not to the level that you would think it's such a huge centralization of priority on those archetypes. Yes once the meta settles M-Sceptile will see a solid amount of usage imo. I think the dominant arcehtypes will change, as of right now we're seeing a lot of offense in OU. From looking at some of the faster megas though they take advantage of this current meta quite easily. Tbh I think people will just go more towards Balance, Bulky Offense, and Semi-Stall as more preferred playstyles. For the most part those have much more consistency against the new threats coming in than something like a frailer archetype like HO because the speed bracket of the faster megas surpasses a handful of the offensive meta and as such will be a liability to run at times. That's really just for the faster stuff I'm pretty sure it's bound to change in aways we don't even expect.
I mean, most of the good Scarfers aren't slow anyways. Scarf Landorus-T, Timid Scarftran, Scarf Keldeo, and Scarf Latios (for ORAS in particular) are all very solid, pretty fast Scarfers these fast mons. Talonflame, especially Jolly SD, is also really good in the current metagame. Combined I think there are enough viable options for Speed control in the metagame to handle the enormous Speed creep.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
+1 Gyarados, +1 Dragonite, Adamant Scarf Excadrill, Adamant Scarf Lando-T and Timid scarftran are all slower than timid mega scep actually.
Part of the effect is that it changes perceptions. I would have called Keldeo quite fast during a lot of XY OU, it influences teambuilding i think. Anyways, I wasnt trying to say that the meta can't adapt, im just interested in how it will adapt and what it will look like compared to a traditionally speed creep.
Part of the effect is that it changes perceptions. I would have called Keldeo quite fast during a lot of XY OU, it influences teambuilding i think. Anyways, I wasnt trying to say that the meta can't adapt, im just interested in how it will adapt and what it will look like compared to a traditionally speed creep.
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Although I agree Megallade is overall better than Megacham, I highly disagree that Megallade outclasses Megacham. Again, that's comparing apples to oranges. Megacham and Megallade do different roles. Megacham is a significantly better wallbreaker that Megallade because it has SUBSTANTIALLY higher power with no boosts, and Megallade is a much better sweeper with a better setup move, coverage, and speed.
Mega Gallade is both a better sweeper and a better wallbreaker, as nothing outside of Sableye and Unaware Clefable wall SD + 3 attacks Mega Gallade, while plenty of Pokemon wall Mega Medicham. I would call Mega Medicham mostly outclassed by Mega Gallade.
Hm, that might actually be true. However This is talking about walling Megallade, but SD+3 attacks doesn't really have the ability to get pretty much a guaranteed free kill against frail, offensive teams when you get a free switch-in just as sub+3 attacks Megacham does, does it?
That is apparent, but in terms of how well offense can deal with it once it gets going I would say offense is worse since you basically alsays have to sack a pokemon if you let Medicham get up a sub, but offense probably has more immediate answers to SD Gallade, particularly because it's not behind a sub and it doesn't have the raw power to OHKO almost anything as Mega Medicham does.
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