Mega sceptile speed issues..? also giga already kills diggers... not a horrible set i guess but lacking in coverage and gardevoir shits on it
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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If you don't know by now, fairy is one of my favorite typings. So naturally, the next mega on my interest list is Princess Bubblegum herself: Mega Diancie.
Diancie trades in her high defenses for powerful offense. She also gets a nice speed boost as well. One main issue she faces is super effective priority. Most notably, scizor's bullet punch and azumarill's aqua jet. Mega Metagross also proves to be a powerful adversary. Therefore some good teammates include Skarmory, Rotom-w, and Magnezone. Rotom stands out as the best partner as it is immune to eq, 4x resists steel, and resists water. Grass isn't very common although it may rise, but any steel or flying type paired with Diancie should be fine. The set?
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body -> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
Sub prevents Diancie from being instantly RK'd allowing to fire off her powerful attacks before retreating. One issue she faces is actually mega evolving and sub helps to alleviate some of that pressure. Once again any feedback is appreciated.
Diancie trades in her high defenses for powerful offense. She also gets a nice speed boost as well. One main issue she faces is super effective priority. Most notably, scizor's bullet punch and azumarill's aqua jet. Mega Metagross also proves to be a powerful adversary. Therefore some good teammates include Skarmory, Rotom-w, and Magnezone. Rotom stands out as the best partner as it is immune to eq, 4x resists steel, and resists water. Grass isn't very common although it may rise, but any steel or flying type paired with Diancie should be fine. The set?
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body -> Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Substitute
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
Sub prevents Diancie from being instantly RK'd allowing to fire off her powerful attacks before retreating. One issue she faces is actually mega evolving and sub helps to alleviate some of that pressure. Once again any feedback is appreciated.
Tested Camerupt a bunch of times, and while it has some potential when in safely, that typing is just too exploitable to be a serious threat in OU... It can certainly nuke plenty of things on the switch with Fire Blast/Earth Power, but it's a lot harder in practice with things like Greninja, Azumarill, Lando-I, etc waiting to maul it with their STABs. I've been running 252 HP/252+ SpA/4 SpD, for what it's worth.
Altaria on the other hand, has just been downright impressive. I'm running a bulky DD 252 HP/4 Atk/252+ Def Impish set, and it can reliably set up 1 or 2 DDs, checks pretty much every dragon in the game (even potentially beating the beast itself, Mega Mence 1 on 1 if it's taking recoil from Double Edge, or if it comes in BEFORE Salamence begins DDing without Double Edge), is a solid check to Zard Y and Tyranitar particularly if it comes in with Cloud Nine after they set their weather, and is basically a threat to pretty much any physical attacker that isn't carrying powerful steel or poison stab (not much, in the latter case). The only mild drawback, really, is that you have to be careful getting it in before it Megas, which goes for most Megas obviously.
For my defensive set, I'd like to try Body Slam over Return for the paralysis chance, but I think it fails to OHKO Megamence back after Double Edge recoil, so I've erred on the safe side and went for the latter for now. I'll have to try facade, as I've noticed Altaria is a magnet for status, it gets Toxic'd or Wisped in well over half the matches I play with it.
Altaria on the other hand, has just been downright impressive. I'm running a bulky DD 252 HP/4 Atk/252+ Def Impish set, and it can reliably set up 1 or 2 DDs, checks pretty much every dragon in the game (even potentially beating the beast itself, Mega Mence 1 on 1 if it's taking recoil from Double Edge, or if it comes in BEFORE Salamence begins DDing without Double Edge), is a solid check to Zard Y and Tyranitar particularly if it comes in with Cloud Nine after they set their weather, and is basically a threat to pretty much any physical attacker that isn't carrying powerful steel or poison stab (not much, in the latter case). The only mild drawback, really, is that you have to be careful getting it in before it Megas, which goes for most Megas obviously.
For my defensive set, I'd like to try Body Slam over Return for the paralysis chance, but I think it fails to OHKO Megamence back after Double Edge recoil, so I've erred on the safe side and went for the latter for now. I'll have to try facade, as I've noticed Altaria is a magnet for status, it gets Toxic'd or Wisped in well over half the matches I play with it.
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I agree with joker8417 diancie is one of the new mevos that I am most excited for base 110 speed is a brilliant speed tier to sit in and its solid mixed attacking stats and desireable dual stabs will make it a speedy and bulky offensive power house that can force switches and set up rocks on those switches.
It also has magic bounce which lets it dodge and reflect annoying moves like twave taunt willo etc. Alongside its nice typing to switch in on choiced dragons , fire, bug, and normal attacks, switch in on knock offs and is a good flying spam check, it outspeeds and okos m pinsir with diamond storm and okos talon flame as well.
I see diancie being a good lead as it can bounce hazards and has solid defensive and offensive presence. One down side is the lack of recovery so a wish passer can help support it. Also loves sand support. Diancie can also set up screens if you want due to good speed and taunt immunity. Also a small note clear body before mevo means it can ignore intimidates and sticky webs so hit can hit harder and faster.
It also has magic bounce which lets it dodge and reflect annoying moves like twave taunt willo etc. Alongside its nice typing to switch in on choiced dragons , fire, bug, and normal attacks, switch in on knock offs and is a good flying spam check, it outspeeds and okos m pinsir with diamond storm and okos talon flame as well.
I see diancie being a good lead as it can bounce hazards and has solid defensive and offensive presence. One down side is the lack of recovery so a wish passer can help support it. Also loves sand support. Diancie can also set up screens if you want due to good speed and taunt immunity. Also a small note clear body before mevo means it can ignore intimidates and sticky webs so hit can hit harder and faster.
When you say bulky do you mean special or physical? Because if specially that set looks scary af, with intimidate before mevo to lower attack and high spdef and then just set up. Although only one attack hurts as bulky zapdos and skarm and stuff eat up univested return (before boost) and hp ice or phase respectively.
If you are using a mixed set and aiming to maim some special walls, like Sylveon, run 88 Atk so your Diamond storm still manages to hit hard enough. Essentially she is a good clean up so I'd only really take her out for that purpose. I'm a bit iffy about sub since she doesn't have much HP to begin with and more importantly because of the poor speed her base form carries she is likely taking a hit leaving you with even less HP for subs. That is too much HP loss for something that lacks recovery.
The other problem is while you are aiming to protect her from priority it isn't going to do much considering Azu/Meta/Scizor (rest aren't really a problem) are quite bulky and can easily stomach 2 hits... So once they break the sub you'll likely go down the net turn or need to switch out.
Just thinking, what EVs would it be worth running on Mega Diancie? Because it might be worth staying non-mega against birdspam if the EVs at base 100 attack allow STAB diamond storm to shrek birdspam; letting you preserve more HP due to your larger defences, and perhaps even keep the opponent guessing if you're running another Pokémon that's viable without their Mega, such as Sableye, Tyranitar or Scizor. I dunno, just a thought
Yeah 100 base attack diamond storm can easily ko quad weak common birdspam pokes like talon and m pinsir.
Evs I would run max speed naive and evs in spa and attck to specifically score kos on key threats. Because mixed diancie is best to take advantage of moonblast/diamond storm.
The problem with staying non mega to take a hit then koing is that you are slower for the next turn. And m diancies defenses aren't terrible so it can kind of take a resisted hit.
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
A little correction: the reason sun isn't viable now is because the lack of permanent weather meant having the condition wasn't enough to make up for how bad Ninetales is on its own. Sun was not "outclassed" by sand and rain last gen - it required a little more skill to run effectively, especially if you weren't running the cookie-cutter build, but it was VERY effective in its own right if built correctly.
Kurona Diancie needs 76 Attack EVs to guarantee the OHKO on Staraptor with Diamond Storm if Stealth Rock isn't in play (if it is, then an uninvested one is enough to kill), assuming it's in the base form with a neutral nature. The other birdspam mons are quad-weak, so no need to worry about them. Megamence won't be around for very long, I expect, but for whatever it's worth, Moonblast with 176 EVs (again, assuming neutral nature) has about a 31% chance to OHKO the all-out offensive DD set (0/0 Naive) pre-Mega and guarantees the OHKO post-Mega.
I ran damage calcs last night on all of the new megas in a fixed scenario. They all hit just about the same which is surprising. Only some with about a %10 difference in power.
My thoughts on M-Lopunny. As soon as it was announced I was excited to test out the unresistsed coverage. Here are the results from the different moves that is used along with Return+High Jump Kick
My thoughts on M-Lopunny. As soon as it was announced I was excited to test out the unresistsed coverage. Here are the results from the different moves that is used along with Return+High Jump Kick
Ice Punch- The only other coverage move that should be used along with them. It hits Salamence,Landorus-T, Gliscor hard and some others.
Encore- Great support move in case you face a bulky set up or a support move It can land you a guaranteed 2HKO on the switch
Sub+Baton Pass- Probably it's best set. Nothing scarier than M-Lopunny behind a sub with a high attack to hit you with for neutral damage. And anything that scares it out it can easily BP away to a set up sweeper.
Fake out+ Last Resort- Tried for shits and giggles and it does pretty well as a late game cleaner. But it doesnt need this combo to do well when it can use much better.
Power up Punch+ Baton Pass- Great strategy!! Loppuny nets a good damage to most pokemon with return/High Jump Kick. When M-lopunny is about to finish off a weakened mon with Power up Punch that damage is scary. Best part is that if Lopunny faces something that threatens it out or it know it cant beat, it can pass the stats to something that can handle the situation better.
Facade- I've made this a new standard over Return for my M-Lopunny. Loppuny attracts status. So it is great turn out to not stop its momentum from sweeping. High Jump Kick still does great super effective damage.
My favourite set so far has been this one:
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Power-Up Punch
I run adamant because I no fear Greninja. And Baton Pass is there because Clefable is running on every team now. So it's always paired with Wobbofett for the kill on Clefable. Also it helps me get out of a sticky situation with by passing the +1 boost. [HIDE/]
Encore- Great support move in case you face a bulky set up or a support move It can land you a guaranteed 2HKO on the switch
Sub+Baton Pass- Probably it's best set. Nothing scarier than M-Lopunny behind a sub with a high attack to hit you with for neutral damage. And anything that scares it out it can easily BP away to a set up sweeper.
Fake out+ Last Resort- Tried for shits and giggles and it does pretty well as a late game cleaner. But it doesnt need this combo to do well when it can use much better.
Power up Punch+ Baton Pass- Great strategy!! Loppuny nets a good damage to most pokemon with return/High Jump Kick. When M-lopunny is about to finish off a weakened mon with Power up Punch that damage is scary. Best part is that if Lopunny faces something that threatens it out or it know it cant beat, it can pass the stats to something that can handle the situation better.
Facade- I've made this a new standard over Return for my M-Lopunny. Loppuny attracts status. So it is great turn out to not stop its momentum from sweeping. High Jump Kick still does great super effective damage.
My favourite set so far has been this one:
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Power-Up Punch
I run adamant because I no fear Greninja. And Baton Pass is there because Clefable is running on every team now. So it's always paired with Wobbofett for the kill on Clefable. Also it helps me get out of a sticky situation with by passing the +1 boost. [HIDE/]
went onto the ORAS ladder for the first time, tried out Mence on a bird spam team
Oh my lord.
the only teams to successfully stop it cold, i.e. without doing much, were those running things like unaware quagsire. it never doesn't do work. you can boost on almost amything once you clean out priority.
In terms of how well it works compared to Mega Pinsir on birdspam....it misses quick attack but lordy this thing is OP
Oh my lord.
the only teams to successfully stop it cold, i.e. without doing much, were those running things like unaware quagsire. it never doesn't do work. you can boost on almost amything once you clean out priority.
In terms of how well it works compared to Mega Pinsir on birdspam....it misses quick attack but lordy this thing is OP
Heh, I might be one of those people you decimated if you ran this a few hours ago/last night. Either way, was unprepared and got mauled by 'Raptor/Talonflame/MegaMence/Magnezone and two other pokemon, once my M-Altaria and priority users were taken down by the other birds, my team just had nothing to really put a resistance against Mence, and was eviscerated. Birdspam is so far the most effective use of Salamence that I've seen.
nah wasn't me. i run a similar team cause birdspam but lacking Zone. figure i can just power through steels anyway. I run Raptor/Talonflame/Mence/Latias/Slowbro/Lando-T. Might switch Lando-T for Zone though. but i lose out on Rocks, which can nab KOs from Unboosted mence and Talon. Raptor just fucks shit up and dies
Oh, well if you're taking the difference out of Sp. Attack, that's a different story. It seems that 116 Attack EVs are all it really needs to OHKO Heatran after Stealth Rock, and it only needs 176 EVs in speed to outspeed Megamane, and the remaining 218 can be invested in SpA.
i'm not sure what calc you're using but the ps calc definitely says 136 atk for 248 hp / 0 def heatran
Are you factoring in the 30 SpA IV from HP Fire? I remember I dropped my SpA down to 188 because I had to make Speed 180 to make up for HP Fire, and Atk 140 for EQ to still OHKO Tran.
(Stupid phone can't type well)
all the calcs include hp fire, which is why the spread is 136 atk / 192 satk / 180 spe and not 136 atk / 196 satk / 176 spe. you don't need 140 for atk iirc (which i may not). even if it i forgot it'd still be a 94% chance to ohko which i could probably live with even though t isn't what i initially intended... in any case don't let the satk drop to the point where you fail to ohko mega manectric after sr with leaf storm, which is the satk benchmark i've set for myself
I've been using a slightly refined version of the MLop+Keldeo+Gothitelle team I had before and I'm really enjoying playing it & messing around with Mega Lopunny. It continues to impress me with its bulk, power and speed.
Pretty basic bulky offense. I'm really bird weak but it's otherwise pretty solid. MegaMence is the most broken piece of shit every to inhabit OU, but you do have two okish checks. If rocks aren't up, Clefable always lives +1 return, paralyzes it and does a decent chunk of damage. (fun fact - 0 SAtk Ice Beam never OHKOs) If they are up or MMence is using Thrash you better hope they came in on a special attacker because intimiate + that bulk is frankly stupid, Lopunny's Frustration does about 25% at -1 and that's not a weak attack.
This Lopunny set is my favourite that I've used so far. You run enough speed for Jolly Weavile and a decent bit of bulk, which combines with Scrappy Fake Out to make this set an absolute monster against offense and a great way to start the match. I'm not generally a fan of fake out, but with Scrappy abs STAB HJK behind it it's a lot more dangerous and really secures a number of KOs - for example, offensive Latias is always 2HKOd by fake out plus frustration after stealth rock.
Gothitelle's set is pretty basic, though I intend to replace HP Ice. Not sure what with.
Keldeo is also the generic specs set, though it synergises really well with the first two Pokemon as I explained below.
Gradually editing in more details.
Lopunny (F) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Baton Pass
- Fake Out
Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Icy Wind
Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave
Talonflame (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Defog
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Baton Pass
- Fake Out
Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Icy Wind
Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave
Talonflame (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Defog
Pretty basic bulky offense. I'm really bird weak but it's otherwise pretty solid. MegaMence is the most broken piece of shit every to inhabit OU, but you do have two okish checks. If rocks aren't up, Clefable always lives +1 return, paralyzes it and does a decent chunk of damage. (fun fact - 0 SAtk Ice Beam never OHKOs) If they are up or MMence is using Thrash you better hope they came in on a special attacker because intimiate + that bulk is frankly stupid, Lopunny's Frustration does about 25% at -1 and that's not a weak attack.
This Lopunny set is my favourite that I've used so far. You run enough speed for Jolly Weavile and a decent bit of bulk, which combines with Scrappy Fake Out to make this set an absolute monster against offense and a great way to start the match. I'm not generally a fan of fake out, but with Scrappy abs STAB HJK behind it it's a lot more dangerous and really secures a number of KOs - for example, offensive Latias is always 2HKOd by fake out plus frustration after stealth rock.
Gothitelle's set is pretty basic, though I intend to replace HP Ice. Not sure what with.
Keldeo is also the generic specs set, though it synergises really well with the first two Pokemon as I explained below.
Gradually editing in more details.
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m lop + goth is cool but i'm curious as to what keldeo hits hard that lop does not? not questioning, genuinely wondering if it's anything specific or just bc keldeo nukes shit
Just for reference, I'm getting this calc:
- 136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 336-396 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth RockRock
- 140 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 340-400 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
That's with Sceptile set to 110 base Atk and the 30 Atk IV.
Very minor detail, but Heatran is mean. Other than that, your set is beautiful and YOU are beautiful, Rosen. That's my favorite Scep set so far (other than HP fire being awful to breed onto it for in-game.....).
I can't find much use for mega latios. It's only very slightly better than regular latios for a purely offensive set (weaker but bulkier and no recoil) and is completely outclassed by his twin sister as a calm minder because he doesn't have the physical bulk to stomach some really powerful physical attacks and he doesn't have the special bulk to become extremely bulky after one CM like she does.
Would a DD set be worth running? That's the only thing I can see right now that would give mega latios the edge of regular latios thanks to the new attack stat.
Anybody have any suggestions on how to get the most out of mega latios? I'm curious to see if anyone has found a good set.
Would a DD set be worth running? That's the only thing I can see right now that would give mega latios the edge of regular latios thanks to the new attack stat.
Anybody have any suggestions on how to get the most out of mega latios? I'm curious to see if anyone has found a good set.
Dragon Dance is certainly an interesting approach. I feel like that might do almost as well as Zard-X, just due to the higher base Speed. Sadly, Tough Claws gives Charizard the advantage. A mixed option is surely viable. I think the reason to use Latios over Latias is for the fact that Earthquake hits Heatran much harder than Mega Latias can. But I think for the most part, Mega Latias is an all around better choice, even on the all out offensive.
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