Kecleon [QC 3/3] Writing

[Evan.]

gunna STAB u

Overview
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+Great ability in Protean
+Lots of Priority
+Very high base Spdef
- Poor Speed
- Low HP and Physical Bulk
- Small Protean-Compatible Movepool

Choice Band
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name: Choice Band
move 1: Return
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Trick
ability: Protean
item: Choice Band
evs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

- Return is a surprisingly powerful STAB when Choice Banded and allows to hit defensive pokemon without relying on Sucker Punch
- Sucker Punch is an extremely powerful priority move that can make up for Kecleon's poor Speed
- Shadow Sneak is a much more reliable priority move that can be used for revenge killing as well as play mind-games with opposing fighting types
- Trick is used to cripple opposing walls that try and switch in such as Ferroseed and Vileplume

Set Details
========

- Max Attack to maximize attacking power
- Maximum speed investment is not required due to a low base speed and reliance on priority
- Choice Band is used to allow Kecleon to maximize it's middling base 90 Attack as well as Trick it away to cripple switch-ins
- Enough speed to outspeed uninvested base 50's like Audino

Usage Tips
========

- Trick allows Kecleon to cripple defensive mons that try and switch into it's attacks
- Shadow Sneak can allow Kecleon to dodge opposing normal and fighting moves by turning into a ghost type
- Sucker Punch is extremely powerful while banded, but be wary of locking yourself into it as it leaves the opponent a free set-up opportunity

Team Options
========

- Bulky Fighting Types are a big problem for Kecleon, so Fairy Types like Slurpuff and Granbull are usually good partners to go along with it
- Wallbreakers such as Sawk are also very good teammates as they weaken the opposing team, letting Kecleon clean up late game
- Defog/Rapid Spin support is very useful as many hazard setters can get a free switch into Kecleon, and after you trick them your band it makes removing said hazards much easier

Other Options
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- Kecleon does have access to a wide movepool, so a defensive set with Thunder Wave and Recover can be considered
- Kecleon can be used as a stealth rock setter however Kecleon usually likes the extra recovery/coverage moves
- Kecleon can also run a move to lure common mons like Ferroseed or Seismitoad with Fire Blast or Grass Knot. Note that a -Sp.Atk Nature should not be used if you plan to do this.


Checks & Counters
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**Status**: Kecleon can be worn down by Status such as toxic or burn and has no way to remedy itself from it
**Physical Walls**: Extremely Physically Defensive pokemon such as Steelix can wall Kecleon due to the low base power of it's moves and hit it on it's weaker physical side.
**Bulky Fighting Types**: Non Choice-Locked Fighting Types like Gurdurr and Hariyama can easily take a hit from Kecleon and beat it with their STAB and coverage moves. These mons also are not hindered by a Choice Band if you end up tricking it to them.

 

[Evan.]

Waiting for QC checks

 

[Lord Alphose]

Just pointing out that Fighting-types should be in Checks and Counters. My Gurdurr can murder any Kecleon set, regardless of Shadow Sneak.

 

[Evan.]

Just pointing out that Fighting-types should be in Checks and Counters. My Gurdurr can murder any Kecleon set, regardless of Shadow Sneak.

Edited. Also removed any mentions of Spiritomb or Omastar. Still waiting on QC checks

 

[Blast]

Remove PuP on the first set and replace it with Fake Out, Kecleon will never ever sweep. Fake Out + Sucker / Sneak lets it serve a role similar to Kanga with dual priority but it's actually stronger thanks to Protean.

Really not seeing the merits of an AV set since it's piss weak and loses Recover. I'll be QC rejecting it unless you can convince me otherwise.

 

[Martin]

In the overview, make sure to make a special point of its extremely tiny Protean-compatible movepool.

 

[Vivmeister10]

I really fail to see where PuP is useless, it makes the priority moves so much harder to deal with, and with support, it CAN sweep or heavily damage a team. Mentions of it honestly should not be removed but I'm not QC so whatever

 

[Martin]

I really fail to see where PuP is useless, it makes the priority moves so much harder to deal with, and with support, it CAN sweep or heavily damage a team. Mentions of it honestly should not be removed but I'm not QC so whatever

The issue with Power Up Punch is that Kecleon won't be sweeping due to its terrible speed stat. If you're going to sweep, you might as well use something that's actually good at sweeping, which Kecleon is not. Also the boost is so small that you'd need two or three turns of setup to reach a point where you could sweep even if it DID have a decent speed stat as Kecleon's attack isn't the greatest either.

 

[Vivmeister10]

The multiple sources of STAB priority and the mindgames it creates with Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch allow it to plow through weakened teams after a single PuP. It's not the speed that's allowing it to sweep, it's the very useful priority it has access to that allows it to when given the chance

 

[xzern]

remember the correct c&c format sir
example:

**Status**: Kecleon can be worn down by Status such as toxic or burn and has no way to remedy itself from it

 

[Blast]

Vivmeister10 Kecleon is never going to sweep a good player because it relies too much on weak or unreliable moves to do it. It's also very physically frail and quite slow so it's extremely difficult to get off more than one PuP per game which isn't nearly sufficient enough to sweep. And even with Protean, it's still 2HKOed by most neutral attackers so it's really not a very optimal sweeper.

Anyway Can-Eh-Dian progress on this? You haven't responded since my last post

 

[Ares]

I just wanna point out that Kecleon is surprisingly bulky on the special side and can take multiple hits. Vivmeister10 Kecleon can sweep occasionally I've seen it happen so you arent wrong, but like Dat Blast said against a good player they arent gonna allow you to setup or sweep with such slow speed. Not to mention there are some incredibly bulky things out there that can take everything Kecleon can throw at it in the way of priority and KO back.

 

[Evan.]

Sorry kind of caught up with real life stuff lately. Added in Fake Out on LO attacker set and added in movepool issues to Overview. I also removed the AV set and put it in Other Options and fixed the format for C&C.

 

[Berry Juice]

Remove that Power-Up Punch mention in Usage Tips, because it's not in the set.

 

[Evan.]

Remove that Power-Up Punch mention in Usage Tips, because it's not in the set.

Fixed

 

[Vivmeister10]

Deserves a mention is all I ask, unprepared teams fare poorly against it

 

[Martin]

PuP at the bottom of OO and no higher as a decent player wont let you do anything with it and it is shockingly situational.

 

[Evan.]

Put PuP in OO, awaiting first QC check.

 

[Raseri]

It should be mentioned that despite Kecleons 65 SpA, its still able to lure and defeat some of the best counters to this set with special attacks. Fire Blast and Grass Knot are my favourite to use, hitting Ferroseed / Vileplume and Seismitoad / Feraligatr respectively. In the moves section, mention that Kecleon can run a Special Attack instead of Fake Out or Recover if you want to lure something.

 

[Evan.]

It should be mentioned that despite Kecleons 65 SpA, its still able to lure and defeat some of the best counters to this set with special attacks. Fire Blast and Grass Knot are my favourite to use, hitting Ferroseed / Vileplume and Seismitoad / Feraligatr respectively. In the moves section, mention that Kecleon can run a Special Attack instead of Fake Out or Recover if you want to lure something.

Edited

 

[Martin]

Can-Eh-Dian What Raseri meant was you mention them under the moves tab without actually slashing them in on the set as they have big niches - big enough to get above OO - but they aren't quite good enough to deserve a full slash. Think of it like "honorable mentions" for the set.

Also, when mentioning SpD in OO, mention that Colour Change is also somewhat usable on the specially defensive set due to the moves that it opens up, such as Knock Off, Stealth Rock and Seismic Toss.

 

[Punchshroom]

Also, when mentioning SpD in OO, mention that Colour Change is also somewhat usable on the specially defensive set due to the moves that it opens up, such as Knock Off, Stealth Rock and Seismic Toss.

Color Change should never ever be mentioned on a positive note. It makes Kecleon far too easy for the opponent to take advantage of; while Protean can also expose defensive Kecleon, at least it can change it at will, and isn't stuck with unfavorable typing until it switches / gets clobbered.

Edit: gamer boy, in that case, the movepool isn't worth it.

 

[Martin]

Color Change should never ever be mentioned on a positive note. It makes Kecleon far too easy for the opponent to take advantage of; while Protean can also expose defensive Kecleon, at least it can change it at will, and isn't stuck with unfavorable typing until it switches / gets clobbered.

The the main thought process behind me saying that was it opens up Kecleon's entire movepool, not that the ability itself is good.

 

[Evan.]

Can-Eh-Dian What Raseri meant was you mention them under the moves tab without actually slashing them in on the set as they have big niches - big enough to get above OO - but they aren't quite good enough to deserve a full slash. Think of it like "honorable mentions" for the set.

Also, when mentioning SpD in OO, mention that Colour Change is also somewhat usable on the specially defensive set due to the moves that it opens up, such as Knock Off, Stealth Rock and Seismic Toss.

Edited, I mentioned Fire Blast and Grass Knot in the moves section however didn't give them a slash. Also I didn't mention SpDef with Color Change because Color Change should probably not be used.

 

[ryan]

Can-Eh-Dian

This set is trash. Obviously I like Choice Band, but it's for good reason. The current set on the analysis is utterly outclassed by Kangaskhan. The only thing Kecleon has over it is Recover, which is awful anyways because this set is only good against offense where you'll never get the chance to use Recover to begin with. Against balanced/stall you just do nothing. The only attack you have to hit defensive Pokemon is Shadow Sneak. I was going to say replace Recover with Return but uh, again, Kangaskhan is so much better at that. With Choice Band, you can disrupt defensive Pokemon and stall by Tricking it to them, and you actually have some semblance of power with CB Return. Make Choice Band the only item, replace Fake Out with Return, and replace Recover with Trick. EV spread should be 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe to outrun min Speed 50s.

The special moves mention should be retained but moved to OO. This is an actual niche that Kecleon has over Kangaskhan (kind of, Double-Edge does lots to Seismitoad anyways, but Fire Blast for Ferroseed is cool at least).

- Hazard Setters such as Garbodor and Crustle allow Kecleon to break though Physically Defensive pokemon easier, later in the match

252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Kecleon Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Seismitoad: 94-110 (26.7 - 31.3%) -- 25.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Kecleon Shadow Sneak vs. 200 HP / 56 Def Seismitoad: 87-103 (21.6 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Kecleon Shadow Sneak vs. 200 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 64-75 (15.9 - 18.7%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sorry, I'm done ragging that set LOL

Cut the cleric stuff. You don't use a cleric with every physical attacker. Mention wallbreakers that can open up the opposing team for Kecleon to clean up. Hell, you can even talk about Defog / Rapid Spin support if you want because like every hazard setter in NU can switch into Kecleon easily (and you often Trick them you Choice Band, which makes hazard prevention AFTER Defogging/Spinning really easy).

Cut Assault Vest from OO because it's shit and won't even be potentially good until it gets Drain Punch. Cut Power-Up Punch too. It's terrible. Add the special moves from earlier here.

Checks and Counters is fine, just make sure to adjust it for the potential of Tricking shit your Band (all of your examples work with this because CB Hariyama/Gurdurr/Steelix can still be huge threats).