Gen 4 Before Extinction

[Inspirited]

Before Extinction

A double DPP Ubers RMT

These two teams here are ones that I built much earlier this year both featuring the two lesser used weather setters as actual weather setters instead of Groudon's sole role being sweeping while the rest of the team doesn't benefit from sun much and Tyranitar's sole role being an anti lead with Sand Stream being more of a hinderance than anything to the rest of the team until the weather was changed. Although this has been done before, most of my old DPP builds for laddering and such were Double Dragon and builds that used Kyogre as the primary weather setter (some having both aspects). These two concepts are still pretty fresh to me as a result and I have to say, even though they aren't anything like a crazy looking but effective Iris build, they are a lot of fun when played right.

The people I play DPP Ubers "regularly" with have seen these time and time again, so i feel like it is time to share them.

Just Some Formatting Things I Will Use:
I will give the order of the team first, then I will give the descriptions based on when i picked them when team-building. I will still mark the lead in the descriptions though.

The First Era:
Sun

Team Order:

The Sun Core:

- Baked Dinosaur:

Groudon @ Life Orb
120 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw

You can't have a team that likes Drought without this guy.
Groudon is a monstrosity that isn't used to its full potential a lot of the time I feel because of how good Kyogre and Giratina-O are. Drought is fantastic and is't used to its fullest potential even on this team, but it is used more than most which is one of the concepts I wanted to achieve with this team.

As far as the set is concerned, I had a neat core idea that I have seen put to good on some other teams with it being Rock Polish Groudon + a Ho-Oh of some kind. The EVs are pretty straight forward with 120 Speed giving Groudon enough to outrun Choice Scarf Palkia after a Rock Polish, Max Attack for the best damage output, 120 HP for a Life Orb number, and the rest in Defense in order to slightly boost his physical tanking abilities. I run Dragon Claw on him for Giratina-O, Latias, Latios, and other Dragons since my team has reliable ways of weakening multiple them but not outright KOing them in greater numbers. It is also a reliable way of hitting Rayquaza who is a very large threat to the team but weakens itself with its Life Orb a lot of the time. Edge Quake is Edge Quake and will always be Groudon's best 2 move coverage options.

- Prehistoric Bird:

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost

Sub Roost Ho-Oh helps weaken Rock Polish Groudon checks like you would not believe. Ho-Oh in general is a very underrated threat and a lot of teams don't have very good switch ins to the turkey. He needs a lot of support through hazard control but once he is in behind a Substitute, at least one of Groudon's checks will either come out burned and weakened, or in KOing range of one of his moves.

The decision to use Sub-Roost began as a bit of an experiment to see if a terror of BW could be equally as menacing in the DPP era. I began playing competitive (if you call ladder droning competitive) in late summer 2010 so there wasn't much time for me to experiment with this sort of thing before BW was all the rage. It worked out very well with Substitute giving me another shot at a burn with Sacred Fire or an easier chance to Roost when compared to other sets. I ran 40 Speed for some creep but the HP number means nothing really. Max Attack should always be used on Leftovers Ho-Oh because it lacks the power to do much otherwise. I am open to spread suggestions, if there are better ones of course, but for now this is it; nice, clean, and generic.

Hazard Control Core:

-Primitive Man

(lead)
Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Void
- Trick
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast

Having Ho-Oh means you absolutely NEED an anti-hazard lead and this guy is by far the laziest way of going about that. He is also very effective at this... less than 85% of the time. I swear, sometimes the Dark Pulse flinch chance is more reliable than Dark Void, but in theory it is the best way of going about stopping those sneaky pebbles from clipping Ho-Oh's wings. He also helps with Giratina-O (the best mon in DPP imo) who puts a big gash into Groudon's sweeping potential and spin-blocks Forretress should Stealth Rock get up on my side of the field anyways. Checking offensive Life Orb Mewtwo is also important but he does require Mewtwo to take a couple rounds of Life Orb recoil before Dark Pulse can KO. he is a pretty solid (but slightly weak) revenge killer mid-game with the Dark Pulse flinch chance coming through at clutch times.

I use a Timid nature because although this guy is scarfed, I still want him to be able to revenge kill mons even after he tricks his scarf away. The rest of the set is standard.leadrai and shouldn't require explanation.

- A Rock:

Forretress @ Leftovers
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
- Toxic Spikes
- Explosion

This guy is the back up plan in case Stealth Rock does get up. Although he has trouble matching up to ubers in the tier, he is the best user of Rapid Spin available. He is bait for Fire-type attacks that Heatran, Ho-Oh, and Palkia all snack on so this doesn't hurt him much. If fact, having something locked into a fire move is a free Substitute for Ho-Oh a lot of the time. He does his primary job better than any and also has a couple nasty surprises in his shell as well.

The spread is straight forward in order to hopefully come in on the powerful Draco Meteors thrown around. The first oddity is he has both Payback and Explosion. Explosion gives him means of KOing Latias and other dragons that feel like they can set up on him after his purpose has been served while Payback aids in weakening Giratina-O for Groudon or himself. Toxic Spikes more than normal Spikes, I have found, and entices other Forretress to come out and attempt to spin which will usually end up with Ho-Oh behind a Substitute or Groudon with a Rock Polish up.

The Glue and Dragon Checks:

- Primitive Dinosaur:

Palkia @ Haban Berry
4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump

This Dinosaur's aim is to abuse Kyogre and weaken / KO / revenge kill a Dragon or two. In all seriousness, I feel like I rely on this dino too much. He does a good job, but he is also the teams cleaving point a lot of the time; especially if I miss-predict the last. I could replace him with a Dialga, but being more Groudon weak than I already am sounds like a bad idea altogether. A Latias might also be a good idea here, but then other eon twins and scarf Dragons become a problem. For now, he works and he does his job very well.

I don't care how Kyogre weak a team is, I refuse to run thunder on a sun team. A hasty nature was chosen to guarantee the OHKO on the eon twins with Outrage lthough it gives other Rock Polish Groudon a healthy chance to OHKO Palkia unfortunately. The moves are all pretty straight forward but to clarify briefly: Fire Blast abuses Groudon's sun, Hydro Pump abuses a checked Kyogre's rain, Outrage is an eon twin slayer, and Spacial Rend is his primary STAB.

Active Earth:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
248 HP / 32 Def / 100 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion

Heatran does almost too much for the team in my honest opinion. She carries Stealth Rock, checks Reflect Mewtwo sets in sun, roasts support and all Groudon to the point of no return (these are big threats to the team), and her evs even allow her to live Earthquake from non offensive Groudon running around (no Heatran is taking 252+ LO EQ even with Shuca :P). She is a nuisance to Dragons which the team likes very much. Overall I think Heatran is relied upon to do too much, but I am unsure of what to do about this. Feedback on this slot would be greatly appreciated.

This entire set is an oddity to be fair. Stealth Rock, Overheat, and Dragon pulse are moves i have already gone over for the most part. Explosion is to KO Palkia and is to be used on an un-scouted Kyogre should Heatran's duties be complete.

Threats:

Offensive ones are the scariest and you have to catch them setting up on Heatran (Overheat OHKOes) explode Forretress on it as it sets up and hope it isn't EVed to outrun Scarf Darkrai etc. These are scary to any team that doesn't have an eon twin or Giratina-O.

Support variations can be almost as bad depending on if they outrun Ho-Oh or not. Heatran lives their Earthquake though and brings them to the brink / OHKOes them with Overheat.

Dragon Dance variants eat the team alive but can be forced to lock into Outrage should Palkia be healthy and Heatran or Forry can explode on it from there. Swords Dance is a different animal since it will always get a KO at +2 and can sweep the team should Groudon be low and Palkia in ExtremeSpeed range.

Mixed variants are handled by Heatran who can tank the random mixed Earthquake as well.

Keep your own Palkia very healthy and try to keep sun up for as much time as you possibly can so Heatran can potentially check it.

/

+

are handled by smart play with Heatran and Palkia

Import:

Hide

Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Groudon @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Payback
- Explosion

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Substitute

Palkia @ Haban Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Outrage

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 100 SpA / 128 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Explosion
- Dragon Pulse

Shoutouts and Sand Team coming tomorrow :]​

 

[Inspirited]

Second Era:
Wastelands

Team Order:

The Sandy Dinosaurs:

- Dusty Dino

Tyranitar @ Chesto Berry
240 HP / 112 Atk / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Pursuit
- Rest

This Tyranitar used to be a Scarfed for experimental purposes when paired with Garchomp. Scarf tar just doesn't do the job though, and after talking with Faint about the team, he recommended Rest Chesto Tar in order to have Tar be a much longer lasting weather setter. I also put Stealth Rock on him in order to give Dialga more flexibility with its set. the down side to this is that I have to reveal Tyranitar early game if I want any entry hazards on the field at all, which can be problematic against some teams.

The EVs give Tyranitar the ability to always OHKO bulk-less Mewtwo with Payback after sand damage while still retaining enough Special Defense to live its Aura Sphere as well as many other super effective special attacks. Sassy nature allows him to out-slow Blissey in order to get off full powered Paybacks against the blob and many others. I am running dual Dark STAB because the eon twins are threats to Garchomp and Mewtwo is a threat to the team in general. It is really just a case of 4MSS, if I could run better coverage, I would. For now, he gets the job done a good amount of the time. Better suggestions are always welcome though.

- Mutant Dinosaur

Garchomp @ Salac Berry
12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

Garchomp is the teams primary win condition with the rest of the team primarily built around him. He is faster than most dragons and steels in the tier even without max Speed which makes him double as a revenge killer at times when I don't want to reveal Dialga or Latias. To quote one of Faint's BW RMTs, "Where There's a Chomp, There's a Way". In all seriousness, Sand Veil is a fantastic ability that can cause some untimely misses of important moves, especially since a lot of attacks used in the Ubers tier are not 100% accurate in the first place. There are a couple things that hard wall him, but he doesn't need all that much support to function correctly.

The 12 HP EVs give him a number that puts him in Salac Berry range after 3 substitutes with the rest of the EVs being fairly straight forward. Outrage can be used over Dragon Claw, but this disrupts almost all of Garchomp's early and mid-game use which is why I run claw instead.

The Early Hazard Control guy:

- Primative Sandman:

(lead)
Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Trick
- Focus Blast

This team hates Spikes, so having a mon to check an early game Deoxys-S is a blessing for the team. Once again, this is the laziest way to do so, but he is fairly effective most of the time. He is one of the fastest revenge killers around also and has a unique set of Pokemon he can revenge kill with his coverage options including the eon twins and Mewtwo should Tyranitar need to focus on only keeping sand and Stealth Rock up. He can cripple set up mons with Trick although he will usually be KOed in the process and is all around a nice asset for the team.

Max Speed and Special Attack are very self explanatory. A Timid nature is run to make Darkrai a still effective revenge killer, even when he has Tricked away his scarf.

The Garchomp Check Checks:

- Bird Dinosaur:

Latias @ Soul Dew
112 HP / 200 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Roost
- Hidden Power (Fire)

Latias is the team's Kyogre check and is a check to Skarmory for Garchomp. Yes this is an all out attacking Latias. Why not Latios? Because Latias takes on Kyogre much better than her brother.

The EVs are atill to give Latias enough bulk to live Lustrous Orb Spacial Rend from Palkia but there are 4 SpA EVs redistributed to Speed to make up for HP Fire's even Speed IV. Speaking of which, both HP Fire and Thunder are run because Skarmory is that big of a threat to the team. She is the most reliable check I have for it so why not give Latias the ability to efficiently take on the bird in any situation? I run Draco Meteor > Dragon Pulse just because of the lack of Calm Mind on Latias since Dragon Pulse is pathetically weak without a Calm Mind boost.

-Horse Dinosaur

Dialga @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Pulse

Dialga is the team's way of handling Swords Dance Rayquaza, Darkrai, and any mon that Latias blankets but can't take on in a particular game. He is my secondary Skarmory check should Latias be busy which is very important when working with Garchomp. He revenge kills, makes dents for chomp, and checks a Garchomp check; there isn't much more i can ask for from this slot. The typing Dialga possesses is also extremely useful for resisting common priority moves and giving him the ability to usually switch into at least one Dragon-type attack and threaten the user out.

I have always preferred Modest Dialga due to its ability to make very large dents in a plethora of common Pokemon. Sleep Talk is specifically for Darkrai whom is a massive threat to the team otherwise. Max Speed and Special Attack give him the best possible revenge killing stats with a Modest nature.


The Glue / Draco Switch in:

- Exoskeleton

Scizor @ Leftovers
244 HP / 20 Atk / 76 Def / 168 SpD
Careful nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Superpower

Scizor is the reliable pivot against Draco spam that the team needs. Choice Scarfed users of the move would otherwise get to the team very quickly. She handles other miscellaneous threats like Agility Lucario as well while Dialga and Garchomp threaten the Swords Dance variations. Scizor also brings priority to the table which is fairly important considering nothing else on the team possesses any. Scizor is also another measure against the eon twins for Garchomp.

The EVs are straight from the analysis since I am not accustomed to using Specially Defensive Scizor at all. I use Superpower > Brick Break just for the ability to OHKO Lucario and smash Dialga's / Heatran's face in as they attempt to come in on a U-Turn. The rest of the set is fairly straight forward and easy to use; Just U-Turn when you are forcing a switch, Roost to come in on more high powered Dragon moves, and use Bullet Punch to pick off weakened threats

Threats:

Spikes and walling a good portion of the team... that is all. Latias is the only "reliable" way of dealing with it since locking Dialga into Fire Blast can be capitalized on fairly easily. Threat.jpg

Always a threat to be perfectly honest. This time it is just the Dragon Dance set that bothers the team. The best you can do against it is try to lock it into Outrage before Scizor or Darkrai falls. It can set up vs TTar, but not letting your opponent know Tar's full moveset can help with this.

Rock Polish can put quite a few holes in the team and can set up on tar. Be careful with it.



Importable:

Hide

Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Garchomp (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Tyranitar (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 112 Atk / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Pursuit
- Payback

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 200 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder

Scizor (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP / 20 Atk / 76 Def / 168 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower

Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Sleep Talk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

Shout outs:
Faint for the Tar idea
Our new overlord Fireburn
Sweep because Sweep
Muk for being amazing
Edgar for being a Mexican Friend
Steeljackal<3 for being luckE
PoweredByRevenge because he asked for one
and these fun people:
malefic
Melee Mewtwo
justinjiaxinghu
Mega-Swampert
Nayrz
absdaddy
Level 56
PISTOLERO
Theorymon
shrang
Minority Suspect
Evuelf
DracoMaster Pain
Piexplode (RIP until January Friend :[)
and anyone else who I am failing to remember at this point... there are a lot of you >< but you should know who you are :]


​

 

[dice]

gira-o seems like a better fit on team 1 instead of darkrai as it also can anti lead deoxys (not as well) and spinblock which is pretty important. u also gain a way more sturdy groudon check while similarly checking mewtwo. u also gain a secondary water resist which i always like. u would have to use scarf on palkia to give a rayquaza revenge killer but that's a minor thing to give up. ur heatran set seems pretty mediocre, but whatever floats ur boat i guess. good luck

 

[Inspirited]

gira-o seems like a better fit on team 1 instead of darkrai as it also can anti lead deoxys (not as well) and spinblock which is pretty important. u also gain a way more sturdy groudon check while similarly checking mewtwo. u also gain a secondary water resist which i always like. u would have to use scarf on palkia to give a rayquaza revenge killer but that's a minor thing to give up. ur heatran set seems pretty mediocre, but whatever floats ur boat i guess. good luck

Thanks for the rate dice, I agree with tina-o for all the reasons you stated and having extra priority around is nice. Heatran is trying to bail out a sinking titanic against some threats i agree and needs to be played as carefully as possible which is shame. I can't seem to find a replacement that does all it does though despite how mediocre it performs its roles. The boat is floating, but barely.

 

[Iris]

it's not bad but i'd go for chople instead of shuca. i'm not sure what heatran would need for shuca and your team is very darkrai weak. Ho Oh is very unreliable and darkrai is your lead.

on the second team, you would be better off with toxic or pursuit over superpower on scizor. superpower is usually only worth it on cb ones and with draco latias, you don't really need to catch dialgas. you actually need to catch ho ohs. id even use fire fang / fire blast chomper + fire blast ttar on this team. skarm is making a serious comeback these days with people using a lot of bkc and my teams as frameworks for different bulky offenses / stalls.

a lot of the set up sweepers you mention only come in on skizzors and fb locked darkrai so it is not that big of a deal. just sleep the opponent (or use gira) and keep darkrai as a failsafe. the good thing about darkrai being the lead is people are more wary of boosting speed so use that to your advantage i guess. youre not that weak to bu dialga / cm rest talk kyogre so stuff like ice beam lead darkrai for the common lo ray is another cool option, save the sleep for later. never tried this though but i rarely use darkrai

maybe this wasn't helpful, i didn't try too hard though. sorry my man