THE META CAN'T EVEN HANDLE ME RIGHT NOW
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Rowan
- Start date
- Status
THE META CAN'T EVEN HANDLE ME RIGHT NOW
Very doubtful. Nothing really stands out as broken at this point at time.
I'm trying to care about these new tutor moves, but I really can't considering my upcoming absence. Pancham is going to be one crazy mofo. You have to remember though, Machop has similar stats and movepool (bar gunkshot and parting shot), but his usage is pretty darn low. I think Pancham will be good, but not as good as everyone's thinking right now. He's no Mienfoo.
The thing about Pancham and Machop, though, is that Pancham has better bulk and a better movepool. The other thread had some discussion about the whole thing and Pancham and Mienfoo definitely do not share the same role on teams. If anything, a team with both of them on it could be incredibly viable and change how each of them are normally played.
Iirc machop has worse bulk and lacks mold breaker (which is actually pretty important for Pancham when it comes to checking Tirt, Mag, ect) and parting shot which as I demonstrated with ye olde panda team, is great for offensive momentum.
How do you guys think the possibility of gems being released will affect the meta? The most obvious abuser seems to be Fletchling if the Flying Gem is available, which would be a amazing for it. An SD set with the Flying Gem would provide it with a useful item at long last, and would also give it a bit of added power initially to muscle past bulkier Mons it otherwise wouldn't be able to beat.
Another interesting concept I was theorymoning (although I know I'm not the first to think of this) was using gems on Moxie sweepers to help it get the boosts rolling. Unfortunately, I don't think it's too viable due to the main Moxie abuser, Scraggy, being a tad slow.
Another interesting concept I was theorymoning (although I know I'm not the first to think of this) was using gems on Moxie sweepers to help it get the boosts rolling. Unfortunately, I don't think it's too viable due to the main Moxie abuser, Scraggy, being a tad slow.
The only two mons who want gems is prolly Archen and Drifloon. Mostly because Archen likes breaking things and 247 BP Acro will crush it's opposition. Plus now it doesnt have an item anymore! So Now it's basically the itemless Archen set. Floon on the other hand wants an easy way to get rid of it's item without sacrificing it's moveslots for Endure or Using Sash which leaves it open to prio. Acro kills two birds with one stone. Combining that with Knock Off you have a dangerous sweeper on your hands. However without a way to boost attack outside of BPing it on, Floon will have to do with what attack it has. But STAB 110 Acro is still powerful enough to utilize. Sucks there's no phys Ghost STAB...
lss: unless i really think about it, there's nothing else i can think of rn that can utilize gems unless they wanna acrobling. i guess Fast Foo could nail Fighting types harder...
So i guess anyone who wants to be itemless to gain the benefit from being able to absorb knock offs and smash things with acrobatics can utilize a flying gem.
lss: unless i really think about it, there's nothing else i can think of rn that can utilize gems unless they wanna acrobling. i guess Fast Foo could nail Fighting types harder...
So i guess anyone who wants to be itemless to gain the benefit from being able to absorb knock offs and smash things with acrobatics can utilize a flying gem.
I feel like for Gems to be useful, especially Flying Gem, you're going to need to get rid of it as soon as possible. On a Pokemon like Fletchling, you can't switch into a Knock Off if you still have an item on it, because the Gem is kind of the point of the set you're running, and refusing to switch it in to Knock Offs could tip your opponent off that it has an item, which puts you into a weird spot and makes it really easy for your opponent to continue scaring Fletchling off against things it should be okay with fighting.
I do agree with Drifloon, though, being a good abuser with Unburden. Problem is, it doesn't have the same utility Fletchling does because it can't switch into Knock Offs either way. The whole Gem thing is very iffy, considering we have a very solid item meta right now and trying to go outside the bounds generally doesn't work, especially since Knock Off got buffed so much.
I do agree with Drifloon, though, being a good abuser with Unburden. Problem is, it doesn't have the same utility Fletchling does because it can't switch into Knock Offs either way. The whole Gem thing is very iffy, considering we have a very solid item meta right now and trying to go outside the bounds generally doesn't work, especially since Knock Off got buffed so much.
Floon's utility is to abuse Flying Gem Acrobatics in conjunction with Unburden, not to absorb Knock Off. If anything if you're weak to Knock Off, there's no point in tossing you to the dogs. Sorry if I didnt make that clear enough. I mean Pumpkaboo can burn it's offenders and Abra can live to punish them with a counterattack but generally we try to avoid those kinds of outcomes.
I guess there's no sense in comparing two completely different Pokemon, that was my bad. Drifloon has a few other good things going for it, like immunity to Mach Punch and Fake Out, and its inability to be trapped by Diglett. After the Unburden boost it can reach a nasty 34 Speed, and it also has access to support moves like Will-O-Wisp, Stockpile/Calm Mind + Baton Pass, and Thunder Wave. Plus, it can learn Knock Off and Sucker Punch by itself, which can make it a good mixed attacker / support.
not relevant
Why would drifloon fear diglett? It's not like diglett has any business trapping drifloon, it's not like that's a threat to SD fletchling
Mixed drifloon is weaker on both sides, and support moves hinder the only thing drifloon should be doing: launch a strong acrobatics and make something die with destiny bond. Not like it's a relevant niche, though.
Carv is getting Poison Fang? That makes it a pretty cool lure for Cottonee I guess a lure carv set with dbond and poison fang seems like it would be a good Wallbreaker for Omanyte / tirt due to sharing many checks that can be removed by dbond and also being able to get rid of Cott with pfang
Carvanha probably just should run other things as Poison Fang only has 50 base power, unless it got a massive increase D-Bond/Aqua Jet is always better.
I mean run dbond and poison fang in the same set, as a lure perhaps even forgoing a stab option since this carv isn't meant to sweep but imagine being able to get rid of a Cottonee and Mienfoo with the same set so your tirt/Omanyte can sweep? People won't expect both pfang and dbond on the same set it does have it's usefulness
I guess that could work... BUT you lose out on running Protect and/or Aqua Jet. We will see once it all comes down to it.
If you want to beat Cottonee so Vanha can sweep later on, I'd just pair it up with Sludge Bomb Corphish. It still lures in and beats Cottonee, plus the two already form the amazing double fish core, and Corphish can actually afford to use Sludge Bomb. Vanha just doesn't have enough moveslots to run Poison Fang and still be fully effective.
If gems return, I'm definitely looking forward to Drifloon regaining viabilty with Unburden shenanigans. It's definitely not as good this gen because of Knock Off, but it's definitely a fun and threatening mon when played correctly.
If gems return, I'm definitely looking forward to Drifloon regaining viabilty with Unburden shenanigans. It's definitely not as good this gen because of Knock Off, but it's definitely a fun and threatening mon when played correctly.
Nah pfang carv definitely shouldn't be sweeping that not what I meant haha I mean like sludge bomb corphish, it lures in Cott so stuff like Omanyte, tirt can sweep.
I agree with everyone saying Ajet is normally the better option, I noticed carv got pfang and no one was talking about it really so I stated that it does have it's use. Keep in mind Cottonee is not found on every team but unlike many other checks to sweepers, it's prescence on a team completely stops a Pokemon from trying to set up so it's very dangerous to shell smashers
Goddess Briyella
Banned deucer.
Repost from the ORAS moveset changes discussion thread. I was going to hold off on posting about things that aren't actually in the metagame yet, but since people are posting about Poison Fang Carvanha and stuff, I figured I would just go ahead.
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot / Zen Headbutt
- Bulk Up / Zen Headbutt / Circle Throw / Parting Shot
Drain Punch and Knock Off are given moves that will be used on pretty much every good Pancham set after ORAS. The other moves will depend on what you want Pancham to be able to do. Gunk Shot is a clean 2HKO on Eviolite Spritzee WITHOUT HAZARDS, Zen Headbutt prevents Croagunk from walling it and getting free setup, and Circle Throw and Parting Shot can be used on switches for team shuffling and keeping up momentum, respectively.
In reference to some other comments made previously, Pancham is nothing like Machop because it can actually heal with its STAB move and get around its would-be counters with coverage moves. It's only a bit like Mienfoo now because it can pivot out with Parting Shot, but its lack of Speed and Regenerator set it apart. That said, it does have clear advantages that Mienfoo does not have, including Mold Breaker ability, Gunk Shot, Zen Headbutt, and the ability to help a teammate set up by lowering the current foe's offensive stats.
Pancham is basically Timburr that trades Guts and Mach Punch for better stats, Mold Breaker, Parting Shot, and really strong coverage against Fairy-types (and Croagunk too if you want). Mold Breaker Knock Off is the only attack in the game that can remove Berry Juice from Trubbish, which ruins that switch-in as well. Whether you use Mienfoo, Timburr, or Pancham on a team after ORAS will define your team's approach quite well because it lets the opponent know what all you want to be able to do and what all you are fine doing without.
Pancham @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 5
EVs: 180 Atk / 100 Def / 212 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot / Zen Headbutt
- Bulk Up / Zen Headbutt / Circle Throw / Parting Shot
Drain Punch and Knock Off are given moves that will be used on pretty much every good Pancham set after ORAS. The other moves will depend on what you want Pancham to be able to do. Gunk Shot is a clean 2HKO on Eviolite Spritzee WITHOUT HAZARDS, Zen Headbutt prevents Croagunk from walling it and getting free setup, and Circle Throw and Parting Shot can be used on switches for team shuffling and keeping up momentum, respectively.
In reference to some other comments made previously, Pancham is nothing like Machop because it can actually heal with its STAB move and get around its would-be counters with coverage moves. It's only a bit like Mienfoo now because it can pivot out with Parting Shot, but its lack of Speed and Regenerator set it apart. That said, it does have clear advantages that Mienfoo does not have, including Mold Breaker ability, Gunk Shot, Zen Headbutt, and the ability to help a teammate set up by lowering the current foe's offensive stats.
Pancham is basically Timburr that trades Guts and Mach Punch for better stats, Mold Breaker, Parting Shot, and really strong coverage against Fairy-types (and Croagunk too if you want). Mold Breaker Knock Off is the only attack in the game that can remove Berry Juice from Trubbish, which ruins that switch-in as well. Whether you use Mienfoo, Timburr, or Pancham on a team after ORAS will define your team's approach quite well because it lets the opponent know what all you want to be able to do and what all you are fine doing without.
- Status