Empoleon is also lame man. Tell me one current OU pokemon that Empoleon checks other than Greninja. ANd even then Low Kick is not exactly never used. Tyranitar gets bulldozed by Low Kick so....it can pretty much 2HKO the whole metagame...maybe it'll be like BW Hydreigon in that it CAN 2HKO everything,but itcan't with one set? But then it'd be like Zard X in that I'd have to run multiple checks...fml. I guess Vapoereon and Calm Rotom-W are gonna become popular now
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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Okay I'm not the best competitive player, but... why is the doc saying that Mega Camerupt is a weaker version of Darmanitan? I mean... yes, they're both fire types with Sheer Force but beyond that they're extremely different Pokémon; was there a lack of notice that Camerupt is predominantly a Special Attacker, compounded by the fact that most it's Sheer Force-boosted moves are Special? Was there a lack of notice that it's secondary offensive stat is actually usable to get by things that wall it's main offensive stat? A lack of notice of a secondary STAB? A lack of notice that it actually has bulk, a lack of notice that it isn't Stealth Rock weak, a lack of notice that it has completely different coverage, a lack of notice that it's speed is abysmally small and that it functions best on trick room teams?
I mean... I'm sorry, I just don't get this. There's two similarities and from that point on they're completely different. Can I get some feedback on this? Because I'm really not seeing the comparison?
I mean... I'm sorry, I just don't get this. There's two similarities and from that point on they're completely different. Can I get some feedback on this? Because I'm really not seeing the comparison?
What's the best way to break a mega slowbro/chansey core? I'm finding it extremely difficult to beat this core right now. Slowbro is absolutely unbreakable at a physical level and chansey is the exact same on the special side.
once again, Cresselia is our saviour :
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 174-211 (39.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That being said it's not a great counter because you can easily lose to Dark Pulse finch/crit and even so, you can easily run out of Moonlight PP before you manage get a Toxic/Moonblast/TWave in, but it's pretty much the best full counter besides Chansey.
Wargreymon, Mew, Taunt MGarde, CM MSableye and MHera all check that core very well. Mew is probably the best answer to it overall, and although it can get statused on the switchin to either, not much else can really happen to it.
edit : also MCamerupt is way better than Darmanitan rolf how can you even compare
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 174-211 (39.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
That being said it's not a great counter because you can easily lose to Dark Pulse finch/crit and even so, you can easily run out of Moonlight PP before you manage get a Toxic/Moonblast/TWave in, but it's pretty much the best full counter besides Chansey.
Wargreymon, Mew, Taunt MGarde, CM MSableye and MHera all check that core very well. Mew is probably the best answer to it overall, and although it can get statused on the switchin to either, not much else can really happen to it.
edit : also MCamerupt is way better than Darmanitan rolf how can you even compare
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Don't forget Alomomola. Yeah Grass Knot and HP Grass 2HKO, but who is going to run these when there are far better options, especially in ORAS?
Wait, lemme get something straight. Meteor Mash has 90 BP. With Tough Claws, that's about 120, which is as strong as Close Combat. That basically means that if it weren't for the base Attack difference, Mega Metagross's Meteor Mash would be hitting about as hard as Mega Gallade's Close Combat and...this is abysmally weak?
Has the power creep really gotten so bad that a 120 BP STAB move coming off a base 145 Atk stat is considered in any way weak?
Has the power creep really gotten so bad that a 120 BP STAB move coming off a base 145 Atk stat is considered in any way weak?
The problem with these checks for Greninja is that they are mainly defensive in nature and can't really fit on Offensive teams, which it wrecks. Their passive-ness is also an issue since it makes them easy to take advantage of, and a couple like Chansey are extremely easy to lure out for Double Switches.
Stop taking tough claws into this. I can't speak for others but I wasn't strictly speaking about metagross. 80BP for a main attacking STAB is weak compared to most other pokemon.
On that note...
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 277-327 (96.8 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Edit: Though admittedly...
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert in Rain: 277-328 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
CB Tyranitar should work
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 206-246 (52.2 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 364-430 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
It's not like Hydro Pump isn't murdering Mega Swampert anyway:
- 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert in Rain: 277-328 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Heracross, stallbreaker Mega Gardevoir, mixed attacker Thundurus, and stallbreaker Mew are good options.
Mega Gyarados with Taunt and Crunch will wreck that core. Mega Gallade could function similarly but not as well. Haxorus also can boost with SD and Taunt like the others. Mold Breaker for Gyarados and Haxorus also negate Shell Armor btw, so crits are possible.
In general, Taunt is your answer. They're both slow as hell.
And I wish people wouldn't cherry pick my posts and consider the whole context of what I'm saying. Megagross is more well-rounded than a wallbreaker or a sweeper. His STABs just don't allow him to do so. This isn't like Char X who has Outrage/Flare Blitz AND Tough Claws AND SD/DD. My point is that I'm not finding success with the Jolly max speed set, I'm going to start looking into bulkier spreads.
Facing Mega Slowbro is absolutely ridiculous. I may be just have a bad matches against it as I'm leaning towards bulky offense but I've found so hard to create a team without a Mew and even without it I have to keep at high health so MegaBro's partners don't kill it and if I let it die it becomes nigh-impossible to stop. Even Azumarill's Play Rough fails to revenge kill it when it at 15% health and knock off doesn't do crap against it and you can't switch in without risking a burn so there is that as well. Doesn't help that most special attackers do not like stall games so you can't risk using them at all in fear of losing them and getting bulldozed by MegaBro.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I'm having too much fun with the new ORAS megas so I'll probably try out mew instead of stuff like mega heracross or mega dos. Taunt + synchronise for potential scald burns seems like a great way to break them down.
Honestly, it's about the best mileage most can get out of a M. Pidgeot (save for maybe trading Workup for Defog). As a special sweeper though I dunno, I think it's still going to get Overshadowed by others like Charizard Y.
Yeah, Stallbreaker Mew is REALLY good right now with those two running rampant. Thanks to Taunt, Mega Slowbro can't Rest/Slack Off and Chansey can't do its thing.
Facade DD Mega Altara does the job as well, using both Pokemon as setup bait. Have never yet lost to a Megabro team.
Can't chansey just toxic and ruin any chance of setup…? I could be wrong, I'm not sure what the standard facade set is.
Facade users want statuses, so Chansey would just be doing them a favor by toxic Facade Altaria (haven't tried it myself though ^^')
Try out Nasty Plot + Baton Pass physically defensive Celebi, Perish Song physically defensive Celebi, Mega Charizard Y, max SpA Mega Venusaur, and Tail Glow Energy Ball Manaphy, they all do an excellent job of dealing with CM Mega Slowbro. Mega Venusaur has to watch out for Psyshock though.
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With toxic + chansey seismic tossing you as you DD up enough it's not really setup bait at all though.
If Chansey poisons you, Mega Alt has a guaranteed OHKO after rocks at +1 with Facade.
I think assault avest volcanion could possibly check gunk shot greninja, with steam eruption its also not setup bait for other pokes.
about swampert, i dont use one myself, but i once killed one with an Starmie in the turn while he mega evolves (had a crit though), and it is a small flaw imo that swift swim doesnt activates immediately (i was faster).
i also believe that sableeye stall is going to be very good, atleast i had more problems with it than i had with mslamence (but maybe this is just because of my team every one else had mroe problems with the other). It blocks opponents hazard setters while spin blocking exca (it cant take a analytic hydropump though).
oh yeah and i lost one match because i didnt expect a scarf greninja and one because i didnt expect a scarf gengar, maybe the speedy oras megas lead to more strange scarfers.
about swampert, i dont use one myself, but i once killed one with an Starmie in the turn while he mega evolves (had a crit though), and it is a small flaw imo that swift swim doesnt activates immediately (i was faster).
i also believe that sableeye stall is going to be very good, atleast i had more problems with it than i had with mslamence (but maybe this is just because of my team every one else had mroe problems with the other). It blocks opponents hazard setters while spin blocking exca (it cant take a analytic hydropump though).
oh yeah and i lost one match because i didnt expect a scarf greninja and one because i didnt expect a scarf gengar, maybe the speedy oras megas lead to more strange scarfers.
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