shrang
General Kenobi
I think the fact that it comes from OU dictates that we should take it with a certain grain of salt. It is circular logic when you have the word you're trying to define within the definition itself.You keep making that claim (bolded) but have yet to show how it doesn't besides calling it OU's. Removal of autonomy is not circular logic.
==Uncompetitive game aspects (or strategies) are those that take away autonomy (control of the game's events), take it out of the hand's of player's decisions--and do so to a degree that can be considered uncompetitive.
Isn't that your problem if you're using standard Palkia then, if you're that dependent on it that much to check threat X, Y and Z (eg Kyogre)?If I have a standard Palkia, that Palkia can be trapped and I have a period of time where I have no meaningful choices that I can make. In other words, just because I can make those choices elsewhere in other scenarios doesn't eliminate the fact that there'll be ones where I can't. It's *those* cases that bother me and it's why I'm asking you to show me a team that doesn't have such an issue with Shadow Tag.
I think this is taken a bit out of context here. The point is still that the result of S-tag is still dependent on actions of players only, so if you lose to it, it is still the result of you getting outplayed. The little bit about choking was just me pointing out that choking is not an exception to getting outplayed, because by definition, to choke is to display a lower amount of skill than your opponent and by the same logic you can conclude that you were outplayed.So what? This is only a concern for low level play, which the game encourages you t grow past. (if you want to win, then you need to learn how to) Even then, the victim isn't robbed any less just because the abuser squandered what he took. It's not very reassuring to be saying it's okay for Tag to be in tournaments cause the other guy can choke...
Can't you do the same thing with Magnezone in this scenario? I'm not denying the S-tag traps a lot more things, but it's still "being outplayed" because you're depending on something easily trappable to check two extremely important things.Not at all. From my perspective Team Matchup based matches are a very disgusting element from XY Ubers, as you mentioned Shadow Tag is not the only cause but that doesn't mean we should be "Ok" with that. I think 100% controlled team matchup could be seen as uncompetitive (especially and more specifically in tournament matches), as it doesn't matter how much your opponent prepares for the battle when you have a Shadow Tag mon that, when played "right" and with the coverage moves you chose to ensure a sweep for another mon OR beat one of its checks by itself puts the player in a lose/lose situation. Once again, watch Joey vs Manaphy for SPL, user aim was facing a team with Skarmory which walled both his Ekiller Arceus and Double Dance Groudon BUT, we decided to use Hidden Power Fire Gengar to counterstyle Manaphy AND opening the path for those mons to sweep. In that situation the player failed to control the game as it couldn't switch, he even tried to Brave Bird it to 2HKO it but that did't matter cus HP Fire Ohko'd back, that alone shows the Shadow Tag is one step above team builder. Anyways, I think that is a good example of Shadow Tag takes the game out of the one player's hand, which in my opinion is uncompetitve.
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