Gen 6 Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire Mega Evo discussion

[Jibaku]

Correction: Mega Rayquaza is faster than Mega Lati@s.

I don't expect Mega Lati@s to fare well in this metagame partially due to Lati@s being no longer the fastest Dragons. Also, without Soul Dew, both of its offense and defense will be mediocre, severely reducing its checking potential.

Primal Kyogre's Origin Pulse is a clean 2HKO on Mega Latios, for instance, and Latios won't be able to return anywhere near the amount of damage it did when Soul Dew was around.

(Not to mention it takes up the mega slot)

 

[Gloating]

So it's been confirmed Soul Dew won't be in the games? would be pretty weird considering they were in R/S even though they did get Mega evolutions.

 

[Fireburn]

So it's been confirmed Soul Dew won't be in the games? would be pretty weird considering they were in R/S even though they did get Mega evolutions.

It has not been confirmed either way - we do know Soul Dew's data is in the game, but that's about it.

 

[mertyville]

If Soul Dew data is already in ORAS and considering Eon Ticket is confirmed (meaning that you can get both Latis), then the chance of getting Soul Dew is pretty much confirmed. Hence Mega Latios at the very least will be irrelevant for the Ubers Metagame.

I just hope, Game Freak does not troll us by giving us instead the other Mega Stone.

 

[Annabeth]

Sableye @ Sableyite
Impish Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Will-o-Wisp
Foul Play
Knock Off
Recover

Mega-Sableye sounds nice to me, as it seems almost impossible to put any hazard against him.

Is there a Pokémon which can use Stealth Rock that can destroy Mega Sableye ? Except Arceus-Fairy ?
I don't know if Dialga or Sash Deoxys-A can 2HKO this set, if it's the case you can invest in special defense.

In the same time, he's a very good check to most physical threats, especially Arceus-Normal and Mega-Kang.
Knock Off can remove Mental Herb from Xerneas trying to switch in.

PS : I wonder, if Sableye mega-evo on a turn he is using WoW, does he still have priority on it ?

PS 2 : Sableye can't be trapped !

 

[WebBowser]

Sableye @ Sableyite
Impish Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Will-o-Wisp
Foul Play
Knock Off
Recover

Mega-Sableye sounds nice to me, as it seems almost impossible to put any hazard against him.

Is there a Pokémon which can use Stealth Rock that can destroy Mega Sableye ? Except Arceus-Fairy ?
I don't know if Dialga or Sash Deoxys-A can 2HKO this set, if it's the case you can invest in special defense.

In the same time, he's a very good check to most physical threats, especially Arceus-Normal and Mega-Kang.
Knock Off can remove Mental Herb from Xerneas trying to switch in.

PS : I wonder, if Sableye mega-evo on a turn he is using WoW, does he still have priority on it ?

PS 2 : Sableye can't be trapped !

Yes he still has priority on the turn he m-evos. Common deo-a sets and deo-s sets don't do much to him due to him being immune to fighting and psychic and taking jack from knock off. An invested arceus or groudon will probably wreck him even with defensive invest tho.

If deo-a usage remains high-ish, I could see m-sable working as a counterlead for it, but 50/110/110 bulk isn't anywhere near as good at one would think, even with dat typing.

 

[Jibaku]

252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef Mega Sableye has approximately the same bulk as a mon with 100 HP / ~82 Def / ~82 SDef with the same investment (404 HP / 288 Def / 200 SDef), so yes it is still a bit frail.

Offensive Dialga with SR can OHKO with LO Draco Meteor from full. Defensive Primal Groudon can 2HKO with precipice blades with minimal investment, while Lava Plume can 2HKO without any investment and can burn Sableye through Magic Bounce.

 

[Annabeth]

Yes he still has priority on the turn he m-evos. Common deo-a sets and deo-s sets don't do much to him due to him being immune to fighting and psychic and taking jack from knock off. An invested arceus or groudon will probably wreck him even with defensive invest tho.

If deo-a usage remains high-ish, I could see m-sable working as a counterlead for it, but 50/110/110 bulk isn't anywhere near as good at one would think, even with dat typing.

It's 50/125/115 for m-sableye. However I do agree that the 50 base HP make it not so bulky.

SR Primal Groudon work if it invest a lot in attack, thanks to WoW immunity. Foul Play is still doing about 40% in that case.
About Arceus, SR Arceus is not common, right ?

252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef Mega Sableye has approximately the same bulk as a mon with 100 HP / ~82 Def / ~82 SDef with the same investment (404 HP / 288 Def / 200 SDef), so yes it is still a bit frail.

Offensive Dialga with SR can OHKO with LO Draco Meteor from full. Defensive Primal Groudon can 2HKO with precipice blades with minimal investment, while Lava Plume can 2HKO without any investment and can burn Sableye through Magic Bounce.

Primal Groudon would still have a hard time setting SR, as Sableye can Mega-evo in a lead duel and remove about 40% HP of Primal-Groudon thanks to Foul Play. Then Mega-Sableye can switch out to something that will force Primal-Groudon out. Then it's going to be hard to set SR as long as Mega-Sableye is alive...

Offensive Dialga, I'm ok with this one.

 

[WebBowser]

It's 50/125/115 for m-sableye. However I do agree that the 50 base HP make it not so bulky.

SR Primal Groudon work if it invest a lot in attack, thanks to WoW immunity. Foul Play is still doing about 40% in that case.
About Arceus, SR Arceus is not common, right ?



Primal Groudon would still have a hard time setting SR, as Sableye can Mega-evo in a lead duel and remove about 40% HP of Primal-Groudon thanks to Foul Play. Then Mega-Sableye can switch out to something that will force Primal-Groudon out. Then it's going to be hard to set SR as long as Mega-Sableye is alive...

Offensive Dialga, I'm ok with this one.

Uhm, I'm not the world's greatest ubers player or anything, but I hear that arceus has some very strong rock setting sets thanks to reliable recovery, very nice bulk, WoW, a very nice speed tier, and non-negligible offensive presence, even without investment.

Sry bout getting m-sable's bulk wrong.

I'm just not sure if being able to completely wall the vast majority of deo sets out there + immunity to trapping is worth a mega slot, especially when he seems kinda eh in other matchups.

 

[Gloating]

Deoxys-S can always run Skill Swap to get around Mega Sableye like how it did back in gen 5 OU when everybody was running Xatu or Espeon. It's not like it has 4mss, all it needs is Sr, Spikes and Taunt.

 

[VanGru]

Calling bullshit on this. We'll see in a few weeks, tho.

I will call you out on that :p

 

[WebBowser]

Deoxys-S can always run Skill Swap to get around Mega Sableye like how it did back in gen 5 OU when everybody was running Xatu or Espeon. It's not like it has 4mss, all it needs is Sr, Spikes and Taunt.

In sable's defense, there is nothing stopping sable from running taunt. It even gets prankster on first turn. So even if deo-s uses skill swap on sableye, it buys him the turn he needs to get his taunt off, stopping hazards. This situation is doubly good for sable in that deo-s is almost certainly NOT running any offensive moves that can inflict lasting damage on sable if it's running skill swap (that last slot is probably going to be used for psycho boost or knock off, if any offensive move at all).

So yeah, mega sable is different from espeon or xatu in that deo-s cannot threaten m-sable offensively AND msable gets taunt.

If, for whatever reason, deo-s decides to run skill swap + mirror coat to counter-counter this, you 1. have a ludicrously overspecialized deo-s lead and 2. are running a 50-50 anyway praying sable doesn't try to two shot you with foul play (can prob turn it into a 3hko with defensive EVs, but then deo-s is even more ludicrously overspecialized and loses out on one of it's top perks, outspeeding deo-a).

On a completely unrelated note, I love how the calc named deo's two sets "ubers useless" and "ubers still useless".

 

[Art Vandelay]

Do you guys know if a Mold Breaker user would be able to hit Groudon with a x4 SE Water move? I'm thinking of Mega Gyara

 

[Fireburn]

Do you guys know if a Mold Breaker user would be able to hit Groudon with a x4 SE Water move? I'm thinking of Mega Gyara

Mold Breaker does not bypass Desolate Land's Water immunity.

Cloud Nine/Air Lock do though.

 

[Minority]

Do you guys know if a Mold Breaker user would be able to hit Groudon with a x4 SE Water move? I'm thinking of Mega Gyara

To further elaborate, the reason is because P Don's water immunity comes from a weather condition rather than an ability like Water Absorb; Mold Breaker does not stop Groudon's Drought for example.

I think Kyogre will still be quite prevalent in ORAS, it just might not be as good since STAB spam will give P Don free turns. I don't understand the Mega Sableye hype, especially with how a Mega Slot is even more costly, it just seems like mons such as Mega Diance have much more going for them.

 

[Inspirited]

A balanced team using Primal Groudon will still want another Kyogre check in case of Primal Ogre coming in on after a sac or something. Offensive Primal Groudon might have to run max Speed just for this scenario so it can at least tie with Primal Kyogre. Kyogre can also survive coming in on Earthquake (Precipice Blades has a chance to flat OHKO it though) once to apply pressure, so as far as team structure goes, you will probably want Primal Groudon and a Zekrom / Rayquaza / Palkia / something along those lines on the same team.

 

[Gloating]

In sable's defense, there is nothing stopping sable from running taunt. It even gets prankster on first turn. So even if deo-s uses skill swap on sableye, it buys him the turn he needs to get his taunt off, stopping hazards. This situation is doubly good for sable in that deo-s is almost certainly NOT running any offensive moves that can inflict lasting damage on sable if it's running skill swap (that last slot is probably going to be used for psycho boost or knock off, if any offensive move at all).

So yeah, mega sable is different from espeon or xatu in that deo-s cannot threaten m-sable offensively AND msable gets taunt.

If, for whatever reason, deo-s decides to run skill swap + mirror coat to counter-counter this, you 1. have a ludicrously overspecialized deo-s lead and 2. are running a 50-50 anyway praying sable doesn't try to two shot you with foul play (can prob turn it into a 3hko with defensive EVs, but then deo-s is even more ludicrously overspecialized and loses out on one of it's top perks, outspeeding deo-a).

On a completely unrelated note, I love how the calc named deo's two sets "ubers useless" and "ubers still useless".

You hit Sableye with Skill Swap on the switch. Also idk you would run Taunt since after Mega evolving it's too slow to use it and it already gets Magic Bounce.

 

[haxiom]

You hit Sableye with Skill Swap on the switch. Also idk you would run Taunt since after Mega evolving it's too slow to use it and it already gets Magic Bounce.

Well tbh sableye is antileading not switching in really. With that said, Sableye is meh- still fairy bait, decent bouncer but still lots of opportunity cost loses huge use as a safety stop to something like ray or mence.

 

[Dilwar]

As soon as ORAS Ubers starts I'm going to try out Ho-oh/MegaLati@s/ExtremeKiller. Mega Lati@s will be an excellent Defogger and a very effective check to the Primal Duo, as well as outspeeding and KOing Mega Rayquaza. Ho-Oh is always wonderful in a hazardless environment and is very effective at wrecking shit for Extreme Killer to clean up later. By using Mega Lati@s, I don't have to worry about throwing in some support Arceus; it will more than likely be the premier Defogger of the new tier.

It doesn't outspeed Mega Rayquaza.

Mega Ray is 115, Mega Latias is 110

 

[Annabeth]

I don't understand the Mega Sableye hype, especially with how a Mega Slot is even more costly, it just seems like mons such as Mega Diance have much more going for them.

It's not that great, but I think it's the best Bounce user with the ambition of keeping SR away. So it might be a very good partner for something like Ho-oh.
It's not completely useless anyway, as it's a very good Arceus-Normal and Mega-Kang check. It can also be used as an emergency check to any non-Fire physical threat, thanks to priority WoW.

Mega Diancie doesn't prevent SR, Groudon OHKO with ground moves, Dialga OHKO with steel move, and Diancie is slower before mega evo.
Mega evolving is going to be hard for it against offensive teams in general, because on that turn you will have 50 speed and a frail 50/110/110 uninvested bulk.

 

[Ortheore]

Being the best bounce user isn't much of a claim since they're all pretty shit at keeping SR away, especially MEvos because they require a turn to MEvo to function. The only one I see as being good in Ubers is MDiancie, and then it's not for its anti-hazard play lol

 

[WebBowser]

You hit Sableye with Skill Swap on the switch. Also idk you would run Taunt since after Mega evolving it's too slow to use it and it already gets Magic Bounce.

You would run taunt to make the opponent's defensive mon a free swap in for one of your mons. Mons like Ferrothorn, Support/defensive Arceus, and Giratina are not hard to swap into because of their offensive presence, but because of obnoxious status moves like twave, toxic, and roar. Taunting it with mage sable prevents the opponent from predicting a double switch and getting in SR while you swap out sable.

Also, it's not like sable has much competition for his fourth slot. He's def gonna want recover, foul play, and WoW, no questions asked. Knock Off is looking pretty awful in the upcoming meta, his offensive stats are pretty garb, I don't see much use for s-toss or night shade due to the generally high base HP of ubers mons, CM is garb due to aforementioned offensive stats, and everything else is pretty friggen gimmicky.

Mega Sable can anti-lead pretty much any deo set and a handful of other popular SR setters, he can stallbreak, he can check/counter a few important phys threats (nothing that ghostceus or giratina can't check tho), and that's about it. I'm not sure if that's worth a mega slot, but it's a niche if I've ever seen one.

 

[Gloating]

Since this thread hasn't had a post since Friday I want to talk about something new. How do you guys think sand will fare with the new Primals and Mega Rayquaza completely shutting down Sand Stream? Still viable or not?

 

[WebBowser]

Since this thread hasn't had a post since Friday I want to talk about something new. How do you guys think sand will fare with the new Primals and Mega Rayquaza completely shutting down Sand Stream? Still viable or not?

That's a toughie. On one hand, ttar has never been able to swap into any of those three mons (except maybe rayquaza). On the other hand, if primal reversions don't count towards the mega slot, we can expect to see a lot more of all of them, especially don and quaza. I think it will likely come down to how well sand abusers matchup against primal don and mega ray. If don isn't running speed investment, drill can put a pretty good amount of hurt on him with EQ, but if it's not an ohko, then don will simply ohko back with fire/ground move of choice. I honestly have no idea on how Mega Ray is going to affect sand though. On one hand, it's dropping dragon STAB for flying STAB, which many sand abusers resist (namely ttar, rockceus and drill), on the otherhand, it outspeeds pretty much every relevant offensive threat they can field except rockceus.

TL;DR It looks bad at first glance, but then you realize that a lot of sand abusers do quite well against primal don, and that gives them some (not a lot though) hope.

 

[Art Vandelay]

how about using SpDef Gliscor as a check for Primal Groudon? Something like EQ, Roost, Toxic and Taunt/Protect could be useful