Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[lightningsnowstorm]

Honestly, what is the worst new mega? Right down to it, M-Beedrill. I am not, by any means, saying beedrill is bad; it is a solid mega with a good ability and ok type coverage. However, that's where its pros end; Pitiful defense, low bp moves, stealth rock weakness, and vulnerability to priority are all contributing factors in my conclusion that Beedrill is the worst new mega. Is beedrill worth the mega slot? In some cases yes, it fills a niche; Extremely powerful u-turn is a great asset. Also, even with drill run, it still finds itself walled by some of the most common defensive pokemon, notably Ferrothorn.

Glalie is far from the worst new mega. If you are good at predicting, it's lethal.

M-Pidgeot, another one of the lesser new megas, is much better than M-Beedrill. Its movepool is limited, yes, but it makes good use of it. Common walls like Ferrothorn or Skarmory don't like taking too many heat waves. 252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. 252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory: 214-252 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. HP ground for heatran. It's pretty threatening to be honest. I'm excited for it.

And, as I said before, Mega Beedrill is definitely a good mega, but it faces serious competition from megas with wider movepools(which inherently means better coverage), not to mention ones that can actually take a hit.

 

[Cynara]

Honestly Greninja benefitted alot from ORAS, gaining Gunk shot as a coverage move, It's almost possible to run perfect coverage, allowing it to beat things it struggled against, such as Azumarill and Clefable.

Heres an example set i've been using on the ladder

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory/Hidden Power Fire

The Attack Evs are so it 1hko's 252 Azu clean and it's pretty useful, I can really see Greninja being a top metagame threat as it checks quite alot of current top metagame pokemon, but I can really see this being the standard set for it. The lati@s look really cool and I wanna experiement more with them. I hope I see the mega lati@s used more, they look really promising

I'm really disapointed in Mega steelix, It really seems like a much worse mega aggron due to the lack of filter and I feel aggron will outclass it still. filter is too good to pass down, Sand force seems like a wasted ability for something thats destined to be a physical wall.

Mega sharpedo is a really fun pokemon to use, despite being frail after a speed boost then mega evolving it's a really good cleaner especially towards the end of the game.

Gallade honestly has to be my favourite so far, I've been using a SD + 3 attacks for wall breaking capatability and it's an awfully fun pokemon to get sweeps with, 110 base speed is decent in the metagame, speed tieing with the Lati@s/gengar with access to shadow sneak if you dont feel like tieing them

 

[lalala45]

I think mega steelix is cool, yeah it doesn't have filter but the thing is its so much better offensively in combination with its great bulk, increased weight, and decent typing. With a set of gyro ball/heavy slam, eq, filler, filler, + sand force you get to check so many threats much more reliably in comparison to mega aggron, who relies on coverage moves a bit too much + sometimes isn't strong enough to take out incoming switch ins.

-1 252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T in Sand: 247-292 (77.1 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (choice scarf commonly runs this spread).
252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Meteor Mash (120 bp-heavy slam due to increased weight) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr in Sand: 283-334 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Gyro Ball (149 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo in Sand: 184-217 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Gyro Ball (142 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus in Sand: 351-414 (110 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade (mega gallade) in Sand: 355-418 (128.1 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Steelix Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Raikou in Sand: 216-254 (65.6 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery



Heavy slam can be used to ohko/2hko slower stuff that are light in terms of weight, and could even use a curse set if there are only physical attackers left. You really don't need to predict that much, as you will be doing so much work against offense and even against bulky offense with the combination of only 2 moves. Obviously you send it in against something that it can check, and easily 2hko the switch in. You can checkmate your opponents that way fairly easily.

mega steelix can be kinda seen in the same way as sand rush-excadrill because it is sorta dependent on sand and because they have the same typing. excadrill would die to have the bulk that steelix has, because excadrill's bulk is kinda meh that it gets 2hkoed by even resisted hits, where Mega steelix is a little more consistent in terms of damage output, and can live super effective hits if it has to thanks to its 230 base defense. you could run sand force on excadrill, but it is way too inconsistent because it would only be much more effective against bulkier teams, and not against offensive ones where it is outsped most of the time, while mega steelix could run a boosting set with curse and beat both archetypes if it has to.

Mega garchomp also has sand force, but its typing leaves it with very little resistances (rock, fire, poison, and immunity to electric), which means that even if it has some bulk too, it will still take a considerable amount of damage from neutral hits, and has to rely on more prediction since both of its stabs are checked by immunities like flying, leviators, and fairies. It is great offensively against bulkier teams as a stallbreaker, but it is worse against more offensive teams that could easily wear it down fast due to lack of good resistances, high powered neutral hits, priority spam, and common coverage moves are run for it. Mega steelix has just as much offensive potential and lays waste to a lot of offensive teams due to sand force gyro ball/ heavy slam + eq stabs, where it can live super effective hits + carries tons of resistances due to steel typing and stop volt switch being a ground type. It has way more switch in opportunities, resulting in more consistent damage output against both team archetypes.

Sand force landorus is more or less in the same boat as excadrill except its slower permanently unless rp, even less resistances, and fares worse against offense, + some walls will even take the coverage moves even at +2 (unless fly hahahhaha).

so lets bring a short comparison chart.

Mega aggron- really good at taking hits better due to filter, can check the threats it needs to check, but fares worse offensively towards overall team archetypes, has to run a stallier set to be viable at times.

excadrill- really good against fast offensive teams, but questionable against bulkier, stallier teams + lack of bulk overall

Mega steelix- really good vs offensive teams, better bulk, really good vs balanced teams, but meh vs stallier ones.

Mega garchomp- really good vs balanced and stallier teams, but fares worse versus offensive teams + lack of good resistances other than immunity to electric.

Sf landorus- good as a balance between a rock polish sweeper and a swords dance stallbreaker, but it really doesn't excel at any of them and has meh bulk, lacks resistances, still hard checked by some stuff even at +2 attack, middilng speed.

Ty for reading :). mega steelix is really cool try it :).

edit: please stop using it as a stealth rock lead pls and ty, you are wasting its potential that way.

 

[Gloating]

Pretty much agree wholeheartedly here. While I haven't found MLatios to be an issue MLatias on the other hand is an entirely different story, it is stupidly bulky. Most people are sitting on this in favor or MMence but no doubt it is definitely a top tier mega. It is difficult to revenge kill due to its bulk, so yeah...

Has anyone test Mega Latios with the same set? obviously inferior due worse defenses but wondering if it's as much of a problem. I guess the higher SpA helps.

 

[EonX]

Mega Latias is totally insane even without stored power. With max defensive it takes hits as well as dedicated physical walls and after one CM even greninja has trouble 2HKO'ing with ice beam. Just pair it with mag and remove scizor and ferro and you're good to go. It sets up all over 3/4 of the meta, I thought it was too good before I realised it got stored power. With sub and stored power it's a whole other monster. It's so easy to just set up and sweep teams lol just remove dark types and win.

It's not like this is a surprise though, tons of people had one look at the stats when they were realised way back and just thought "too good". 120 defence, 140 special attack, 150 special defence, 110 speed. God-like stats.
It's a shame her brother didn't get the same magical mega treatment. :(

It just needs Dark-types removed... and MAYBE Specs Magnezone. Just drain Ferrothorn out of Gyro Ball PP, and you're good to go to set up on it with Mega Latias. Knock Off from Ferrothorn won't even break the Sub, which is kind of disgusting.

So as you can guess, I agree with the general sentiment that Mega Latias is stupid good in the current Meta. Unless you hit it with Toxic, have a Dark-type, or have a phazer that isn't boned by Stored Power, it's gashing holes in teams at the very worst (achieved at +2) and sweeping straight through teams at +4 or higher. I've had a few matches using it, and even with some stupid para hax and a couple of crits, I still managed to get it up to +5 and sweep / stall out a team late-game once I removed the only Dark-type. And this thing's bulk is ridiculously good. It takes ~35% from Mega Lopunny's Ice Punch. It's not the strongest Ice Punch in the world, but you get the idea.

Gloating, like with their base forms, I don't think Mega Latios would be near as good with such a set. The primary reason being that Mega Latias has 20 more base Defense and 30 more starting base Special Defense. This makes the initial setup significantly easier for Mega Latias as there's a much wider pool of Pokemon Mega Latias can get that first CM (or Sub) up against than Mega Latios.

 

[Mr. Goodra]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's solely Latias that gets stored power. Mega Latios got shafted big time.

 

[Machi]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's solely Latias that gets stored power. Mega Latios got shafted big time.

Nah they both receive it but Latias is the better user due to higher defenses allowing for ease at setting up.

 

[Albacore]

Can confirm that Stored Power MLatias is completely and utterly ridiculous, it sets up over a massive portion of the metagame, and although it does need Dark-types removed, that's pretty much the only support it requires given how much of a one-man army it is. Besides, Dark types aren't too hard to get rid of, there are good options, both offensive and defensive, prtty much any given fighting type does the job really. Personally, I use Chesnaught, it's pretty good as wearing down Dark-types thanks to Spikes. You can literally make a team with MLatias and 5 Dark-type killers and have it work, CM MTias is just that efficient at setting up. Heck, you can even employ dedicated lures (Mega-Latias+HP Fighting Latios core anyone?), it's worth it since most things that don't outright wall MTias are just setup fodder for it.

I don't think it can be called "broken" however, simply because it actually needs to set up to do much of anything (granted, setting up is ridiculously easy), is completely stopped by an entire type, and has a hard time getting past a few taunters (Heatran is setup fodder, but Mew can be annoying, and you need a bunch speed EVs to beat Talon and it can easily creep you back anyway). Still, it's pretty much the amazing win condition we expected MSlowbro would be.

Edit @below : I personally run 136 Speed, outspeeds 4 Speed Talonflame (from what I can tell Stallbreaker Talon don't usually run more than that) as well as 252 Speed Kyu-B (which I'm not sure exists but it's better to be on the safe side), Adamant Excadrill outside of Sand, and Jolly/Naive Mamoswine. If you're running as much as 160 might as well bump that up to 176 to outpace neutral-natured base 100s

 

[hithere44]

I've been testing Mega Sharpedo lately and while it does have a nasty crunch. I don't think it will have much usage in the future due to Mega Gyarados. Plus it only seems to work on HO teams due to it's bulk, unlike Gyara who can function well on Balance and some stall team( I don't know if it's ideal but I once saw taunt M. Gyara on stall :O). It's still a pretty good cleaner though. I'll test it some more.

Many of you seem to be testing SP Latias. Can anyone tell me the ideal spread for it? I saw 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 Spe and 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe in the good cores thread, but they didn't really specify what it outspeeds and what it tanks.

 

[AM]

Honestly Greninja benefitted alot from ORAS, gaining Gunk shot as a coverage move, It's almost possible to run perfect coverage, allowing it to beat things it struggled against, such as Azumarill and Clefable.

Heres an example set i've been using on the ladder

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory/Hidden Power Fire

The Attack Evs are so it 1hko's 252 Azu clean and it's pretty useful, I can really see Greninja being a top metagame threat as it checks quite alot of current top metagame pokemon, but I can really see this being the standard set for it. The lati@s look really cool and I wanna experiement more with them. I hope I see the mega lati@s used more, they look really promising

Just go 40 on the attack for Gunk Shot. Unless you're facing some low ladder players the highest you'll ever see Azumarill go is 240 HP EVs and 40 Evs in attack is enough for Gunk Shot to KO. That's just for Azu I probably just missed Clefable but yeah just a thought really.

 

[Celticpride]

The only problem with this is that the move moves Greninja gets, the more it has to suffer from 4-slot move syndrome. Something will wall it no matter what set you're running. I guess you still have to sack something to see what set it's running, but I guess that would be annoying. I mean look at this.

Greninja @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpE / 4 SpA
Naive Nature
-Gunk Shot
-Low Kick / Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam / Extrasensory
-HP Fire / Waterfall / Hydro Pump

See the problem? It's going to be hard to choose the moves it wants to use just due to the fact is has so many.

Something like Gunk Shot, Low Kick, Ice Beam, and Dark Pulse/HP Fire hits almost everything hard. Don't run max attack however, it only needs 40 to OHKO Azumarill, and you lose more KOs when you invest heavily in Attack compared to Special Attack. 40 Attack / 216 Special Attack / 252 Speed Naive works the best imo.

 

[daftmau5]

I've been testing Mega Sharpedo lately and while it does have a nasty crunch. I don't think it will have much usage in the future due to Mega Gyarados. Plus it only seems to work on HO teams due to it's bulk, unlike Gyara who can function well on Balance and some stall team( I don't know if it's ideal but I once saw taunt M. Gyara on stall :O). It's still a pretty good cleaner though. I'll test it some more.

Many of you seem to be testing SP Latias. Can anyone tell me the ideal spread for it? I saw 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 Spe and 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe in the good cores thread, but they didn't really specify what it outspeeds and what it tanks.

• 160 Spe outruns Jolly Heracross and Jolly Pinsir (before it Mega Evolves).
• 136 Spe outruns Neutral Max Spe Kyurem-B
• 116 Spe outruns Jolly Max Spe Mamoswine
• 100 Spe is enough for 160 Spe Mew + a bit of creep for things like Timid Max Spe Heatran.

Pick whatever you're comfortable with/what your team needs. In my experience, i've found 136 Spe to be enough because Heracross/Pinsir would have mega'd by the time Mega Latias is ready to sweep (i.e. late game). No one really runs Neutral Max Spe Kyurem-b either but it's insurance just in case. Mamoswine is common enough to justify a bare minimum of 116 spe and it doesn't particularly detract from Mega Latias' bulk.

 

[TheEnder]

Pardon me if a similar core has already been mentioned, but it's really damn good, and i cbf to search through 90 pages, so bear with me. As Albacore said, CM Mega-Latias is one of the better, if not the best, Megas out there. If sets up on basically everything without a STAB super-effective move, and is only hard-stopped by Dark-types. It also forces alot of switches, becuase of the huge amount of Pokemon it sets up on. To take advantage of this, running Spike-stack alongside it is really cool. Here is a balanced core that goes well with almost all playstyles, and does generally well.

Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Stored Power

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Roar / Protect

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Drain Punch

So basically, Empoleon + Chesnaught is not only capable of setting both Stealth Rock and Spikes, but they also beat almost every Dark-type out there. Chesnaught is capable of switching into Bisharp, Mega Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Sharpedo. Empoleon beats Greninja, which is really huge, as well as being a great switch-in opposing Lati@s and Clefable. Good additions to this core includes Pokemon capable of beating Meba Sableye and LO Gengar with Focus Blast, the two biggest threats to the core. Having a check to Salamence is also advised, becuase Chesnaught gives it a lot of free turns. Other than this though, the core is really solid, and it capitalizes on the insane power that is Mega Latias.

 

[Josh Morales]

Is it viable to use Chesnaut with Leech Seed, Spikey Shield, Spikes, and Rocky Helmet for the maximum physical attacker annoyance factor?

Also, from what exactly is the Mega Latias spread with 100 Def evs and 160 Spe ev'd to take a hit and outspeed?

 

[yoloburn]

Is it viable to use Chesnaut with Leech Seed, Spikey Shield, Spikes, and Rocky Helmet for the maximum physical attacker annoyance factor?

Also, from what exactly is the Mega Latias spread with 100 Def evs and 160 Spe ev'd to take a hit and outspeed?

seems to be mostly for jolly hera before mega evolving, since it can break sub and kill with pin missile

the rest in bulk

 

[Mr. Goodra]

M-Camerupt users, what are the arguments for Rock Slide vs. Ancientpower? I've been running calcs and Ancientpower seems superior in almost every scenario going, but am I missing a target Rock Slide KOs that Ancientpower doesn't? Flash cannon seems okay coverage, as it's the most damaging move Camerupt has for incoming Mega Aero (which I think will go up in usage with the fast megas) and Mega Altaria. Explosion also seems good fun when you're worn down to lure-kill the Lati twins, but I'll test that before commenting further.

 

[TheEnder]

Is it viable to use Chesnaut with Leech Seed, Spikey Shield, Spikes, and Rocky Helmet for the maximum physical attacker annoyance factor?

Also, from what exactly is the Mega Latias spread with 100 Def evs and 160 Spe ev'd to take a hit and outspeed?

160 Speed outspeeds Jolly Mega Heracross.

 

[Kurona]

M-Camerupt users, what are the arguments for Rock Slide vs. Ancientpower? I've been running calcs and Ancientpower seems superior in almost every scenario going, but am I missing a target Rock Slide KOs that Ancientpower doesn't? Flash cannon seems okay coverage, as it's the most damaging move Camerupt has for incoming Mega Aero (which I think will go up in usage with the fast megas) and Mega Altaria. Explosion also seems good fun when you're worn down to lure-kill the Lati twins, but I'll test that before commenting further.

Ancientpower has tiny PP; Rock Slide has more longetivity.

Edit: It also means you aren't completely walled by Chansey or whatever

 

[Mr. Goodra]

Ancientpower has tiny PP; Rock Slide has more longetivity.

I realise that but when will mega camel ever last that long? It nukes then either GTFOs or dies, I can't imagine something coming in and stalling out PP. Am I missing something?

 

[Consignia]

Ancientpower has tiny PP; Rock Slide has more longetivity.

Edit: It also means you aren't completely walled by Chansey or whatever

252 Atk Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 134-158 (20.8 - 24.6%)

fire blast does more damage even if you run max attack evs, which you won't. use ancientpower

 

[Hogg]

Specially defensive Talonflame can theoretically stall out Ancientpower's PP with Roost, since it only deals 50-60% if roosting, but that seems like a corner case (and you can always use Earth Power to catch them while roosting).

 

[Wargreymon]

Is mega altaria a better bulky dragon dancer than Charizard x or am I missing something? Even better typing, pixilate return hits harder than tough claws dragon claw, better defensive stats, slower base speed is hardly an issue with speed EVs and dragon dance…

Sure zard has flare blitz/fire punch STAB for steels but it's not like altaria can't run EQ for mag and heatran or hp fire for ferro and scizor. Or alternatively just pair it with mag. After mega evolving it's not weak to rocks either compared to a 4x weakness and then a 2x weakness as charizard x.

 

[Stef0w]

Is mega altaria a better bulky dragon dancer than Charizard x or am I missing something? Even better typing, pixilate return hits harder than tough claws dragon claw, better defensive stats, slower base speed is hardly an issue with speed EVs and dragon dance…

Sure zard has flare blitz/fire punch STAB for steels but it's not like altaria can't run EQ for mag and heatran or hp fire for ferro and scizor. Or alternatively just pair it with mag. After mega evolving it's not weak to rocks either compared to a 4x weakness and then a 2x weakness as charizard x.

I think they are equal, since zard can hit (basically) everything from it's STAB's, and doesnt need to invest for HP fire, and Zard is also immune to Burns, which is neat.

 

[Hogg]

Burn immunity is kind of a big deal; Altaria can't really reliably set up on bulky waters despite her typing and good SDef, for instance, for fear of a Scald burn. Plus, Rotom-W is everywhere.

I like Altaria, and she has her niches, but I don't think she's going to be putting CharX out of a job any time soon...

 

[master_marshmallow]

Immunity to burn is a very big deal on physicalmons. Myself, I try not to run a team that doesn't have their primary physical attacker have some form of burn immunity. Talonflame shares this characteristic, and is very strong which is one of the many reasons why it's every fucking where.

Infernape and Camerupt to a degree also share this quality.