Such set accomplishes nothing that clawitzer cant do bar maybe being walled by cresselia (which happens to rott lol).
The only thing Samurott has is the ability to run two sets with different switch ins, which is not enough for a spot in VR :/
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Resource XY RU Tier List (RU Viability Ranking itt)
- Thread starter Molk
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The only thing Samurott has is the ability to run two sets with different switch ins, which is not enough for a spot in VR :/
Isn't sharpedo better at the mixed set though?
rots more bulky but yeah sharpedo is prettty good at doing mixed :/
Rott has some awesome high powered coverage tho (megahorn :D) and between its bulk and movepool i think it could get a lower rank for a niche
samurott has acess to encore + taunt :3
Yeah I have to agree that Clawitzer's powerful movepool (Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse) renders Samurott's ability to go mixed (Superpower, Knock Off, Megahorn) somewhat obsolete.
just a nitpick, and someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't really see any use for an offensive mon like rott to run encore + taunt when you can just run whimsicott with that. i realize that encore can be used to easily set up, but if you're running encore/taunt/swords dance you only have space for one attacking move, probably waterfall, which is super easy to wall with alomo/gastro/amoong/tang/really anything slightly bulky and/or resists water.
i've actually used rott, and unless the meta's changed or something recently, i don't really see any place for it when the other options for water typed attacker (sharpedo, claw) exist. it faces even more competition as a dancer with doublade, fletch, virizion, cobalion, abomasnow and gallade all in the tier lol. most of the time i used it it would set up and not really do much, which isn't too appealing when the aforementioned mons actually do shit
Yeah, I agree that Samurott doesn't deserve a ranking. Its special attacking set is completely outclassed by Clawitzer, who is much more powerful and can match Rott's ability to go mixed with its coverage. Its SD set is mostly outclassed by Feraligatr, with the only exceptions of being able to beat Slowking better and a chance to 2HKO Mola, which wouldn't matter in most circumstances (and SD Gatr isn't that good here anyways). Finally, its "unpredictability" doesn't really matter much when pretty much all teams carry one or multiple checks and counters to both sets without even trying. If anything, I think it should be ranked because of Taunt, but D rank would be the highest.
Anyways, onto a more important nomination imo:
Skuntank > B:
The meta has been really shifting in its favor, with the rise of Moltres (who Skuntank is one of the best partners for) and Psychics. Seriously, having both hazard control and a Psychic check in one slot is extremely useful, needless to say. It also has some other nice things going for it, like strong priority, good bulk, Fire Blast to lure common switch-ins, Punishment (that deals with last mon CM Psychics a lot better than Drapion), and a situationally useful ability that differentiates it from its competition like Drapion and Shiftry (although Defog + Psychic check should be enough). It's been sitting in B- for a while and definitely could use a bump up.
Anyways, onto a more important nomination imo:
Skuntank > B:
The meta has been really shifting in its favor, with the rise of Moltres (who Skuntank is one of the best partners for) and Psychics. Seriously, having both hazard control and a Psychic check in one slot is extremely useful, needless to say. It also has some other nice things going for it, like strong priority, good bulk, Fire Blast to lure common switch-ins, Punishment (that deals with last mon CM Psychics a lot better than Drapion), and a situationally useful ability that differentiates it from its competition like Drapion and Shiftry (although Defog + Psychic check should be enough). It's been sitting in B- for a while and definitely could use a bump up.
Piloswine is a cutie, and was recently approved by QC for an analysis, so I'll suggest it gets ranked in C- or C, leaning towards the later, just because it really messes up with some of the current metagame trends, including stuff like Swords Dance Drapion, Accelgor + Cobalion entry hazard cores (the later fails to OHKO with Close Combat and gets KOd back if it does go for it. The former is limited to one layer of Spikes), and both Skuntank / Gligar as Defog users, thanks to its unique STABs. On top of that, it has a nice Electric-type immunity to mess with Volt Switch users (it has a chance of surviving Rotom-C's Leaf Storm IIRC, it gives no fucks about Rotom-F and Lanturn, unless the later gets a Scald burn, and Jolteon/Heliolisk aren't that hard to deal with either for the most part).
I'd bother mentioning all of the things it survives, but there are a lot of them actually, so I'll simply provide you some:
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 236-282 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
And I guess this is enough. Keep in mind that this is with only HP investment, and not 252/252+ too, which means it also deals considerable damage against some stuff (it has a solid STAB combination, base 100 Attack with reliable STAB moves. It also has Ice Shard, adding up to its utility). If you're still not convinced about this thing's viability:
^not really a Piloswine, but this is the finest excuse I'll ever have for posting this. It's a close cousin anyways.
I'd bother mentioning all of the things it survives, but there are a lot of them actually, so I'll simply provide you some:
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 236-282 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 206-246 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
And I guess this is enough. Keep in mind that this is with only HP investment, and not 252/252+ too, which means it also deals considerable damage against some stuff (it has a solid STAB combination, base 100 Attack with reliable STAB moves. It also has Ice Shard, adding up to its utility). If you're still not convinced about this thing's viability:
^not really a Piloswine, but this is the finest excuse I'll ever have for posting this. It's a close cousin anyways.
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I haven't had a lot of battles involving Piloswine (1 against pearl and about 10 on the ladder with a quick team) and i can see that is is a surprisingly consistent Pokemon. It has impressive bulk even with offensive investment thanks to its high HP stat and Eviolite and hits quite hard with its decently powerful stabs (that also happen to have good coverage) and it really puts a dent on a lot of common pokemon like Gligar and Golbat who are commonly used for hazards removal and struggle to switch in for obvious reasons.
A ground type that can somewhat threaten Grass-types is always a good thing and i definitely support it for somewhere around C/C+
As Kevun and other people already know Skuntank is quite an useful Pokemon in the current metagame. Thanks to its useful typing and movepool (Defog, Taunt, Foul Play, Sucker Punch, Punishment) Skuntank fits in a lot of teams like most Moltres balanced / BO teams as a DEFOGGER AND PSYCHIC CHECK and also has some bonus like OHKOing Dugtrio with Sucker Punch (doesnt seem much but Dugtrio+Meloetta is still quite popular and Skuntank is one of the few Psychic checks that it can't trap and OHKOing unsuspectind Doublades with Foul Play. I would be against this change a month ago but Skuntank's usefulness at the moment is just too good for a lot of balanced and offensive teams alike.
phantom
Banned deucer.
Skuntank is B+ minimum in this meta, at least from a teambuilding perspective. The amount of utility is provides in one team slot is pretty insane: Pursuit-trapper, Defog user, and Psychic Counter. It's without a doubt one of the best glue 'mons in the tier. That's not to mention that unlike other Psychic checks, Skuntank matches up well against all three major Psychics: Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Meloetta, while not being trapped by Dugtrio, making it incredibly successful and consistent as its given role. Furthermore, Skuntank is right now the best partner for the #1 Pokemon in the tier, Moltres, seeing as how it provides Moltres with everything it could ask for. The fact that it can occupy two major team slots in one (hazard control and psychic check) allows you to have a spare teamslot to maximize the effectiveness of your team, and that in and of itself is incredible.
oh damn i completely forgot to update this x.x
Also note that the council is working on some other updates behind the scenes :), think about it kinda like what happened when the V2 was first made.
If you guys want to discuss some (not all, might bring up some others later) of the changes being proposed behind the scenes, some of the most notable ones are moving Delphox down to A rank, Mega Banette down to the lower B ranks, Mega Abomasnow to A+, Mismagius down to C+, Kabutops up to B+, Escavalier down to A-, Rotom-C down to B+, and Rotom-Frost to an unspecified higher rank.
llamas edit: Lanturn best fish
Samurott removed
Skuntank moved up to B rank, might move up to B+ in the future but B is 100% definite
Piloswine added to C rank, this thing is really neat tbh
Lanturn moved up to B rank
(last one is kinda random but i really think it deserves it, i know some other ppl prolly agree with that as well, it's pretty neat. If you want some more reasoning on Lanturn i'd be happy to make a post explaining why.).
Skuntank moved up to B rank, might move up to B+ in the future but B is 100% definite
Piloswine added to C rank, this thing is really neat tbh
Lanturn moved up to B rank
(last one is kinda random but i really think it deserves it, i know some other ppl prolly agree with that as well, it's pretty neat. If you want some more reasoning on Lanturn i'd be happy to make a post explaining why.).
Also note that the council is working on some other updates behind the scenes :), think about it kinda like what happened when the V2 was first made.
If you guys want to discuss some (not all, might bring up some others later) of the changes being proposed behind the scenes, some of the most notable ones are moving Delphox down to A rank, Mega Banette down to the lower B ranks, Mega Abomasnow to A+, Mismagius down to C+, Kabutops up to B+, Escavalier down to A-, Rotom-C down to B+, and Rotom-Frost to an unspecified higher rank.
llamas edit: Lanturn best fish
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phantom
Banned deucer.
Mega Abomasnow is simply phenomenal in this meta. Between having a grand total of one safe switch-in (that can be Pursuit-trapped, mind you), along with incredible power, phenomenal bulk that allows it to survive even high BP SE STAB moves, and a great priority move in Ice Shard resisted by very few offensive threats, Mega Abomasnow is one of the few Pokemon that can match up very consistently vs both offense and stall simultaneously. It's one of the hardest Pokemon to prepare for teambuilding wise given how difficult it is to even KO (not even Cobalion's SE 120 BP STAB move can one-shot it for reference nor can Fletchinder's Acrobatics) and not to mention how incredibly threatening it is just after a single boost. Even though it is slow, its meaty bulk, great priority move, and useful resistances, which let it act as a universal check to almost all Electric-types in RU, help offset these flaws enough so that it's easily one of the top contenders in this meta. The only type of support Mega Abomasnow really needs is entry hazard control, and thankfully, it has good synergy with premier Defog user, Gligar. I don't think there's anything in RU that's this difficult to counter that also does well against every single team archetype with a single set; however, Mega Abomansnow's mixed set gives it a degree in offensive flexibility in that it can run Giga Drain to acquire more longevity and use its very spammable STAB Blizzard to plow through physically bulky Pokemon such as Durant and Weezing. This isn't even getting into how useful Mega Abomasnow's abilities are. Pre-mega, Soundproof gives offense a Pokemon that can switch into Exploud's Boomburst, and after it Mega Evolves, it can take advantage of hail in order to limit the recovery options on the likes of Cresselia, use the netted chip damage to secure KOs, and more importantly, take out Focus Sash hazard leads turn one in order to limit them to a single layer. With all of these things take into account, Mega Abomasnow is easily one of the top 5 best Pokemon in RU, and thus should move to S rank.
I can't tell you how many teams are weak to Magneton. With Choice Specs, Magneton is one of the most elusive wallbreakers in the tier. It's enough that the only Pokemon that can really wall it are fat Steel such as Registeel and Bronzong, but when it can just spam Volt Switch early game to wear them down, then that adds another dimension in terms of how difficult it is to deal with. In addition, its Eviolite set can make it even a bigger nuisance to teams lacking these Steel-types, as it is not only more difficult to switch into thanks to its ability to switch moves, but it also has some pretty good bulk to check many offensive threats and even survive various super effective hits if need be. With the rise of slower, bulkier teams and Magneton's resistances being even more useful than ever with the ongoing popularity of offensive Electric-types, Fletchinder, and Mega Abomasnow, it's very firmly placed as an effective, anti-meta threat and needs to move up.
my two cents on Kabutops potentially moving up to B+:
KACAW! Moltres is undoubtedly one the best RU mons in this meta, forcing teams to run at least one surefire check to ensure that their team doesn't get decimated by the bird. Kabutops is a really damn good check to Moltres, being able to tank Fire Blast/Hurricane with no problem when equipped with an Assault Vest (which I see gaining popularity). It can also It has priority in Aqua Jet and has access tothe most broken move in the entire game Knock Off, which makes it pretty unique and useful in plenty of situations. Kabutops resists both Meloetta's Hyper Voice and Exploud's Boomburst, and can Knock Off their items, making them much less threatening. It also has access to Rapid Spin, which frees up a moveslot on a potential Defogger and gives the team more flexibility.
The fossil isn't only limited to its ability to check one the best mons in the game as it has access to a neat combination of Weak Armor + Jet + SD. With its decent base 105 Defense, it can easily switch in into most neutral and resisted physical attacks and proceed to nab a +1 boost which makes up for it's lackluster speed. Swords Dance allows it to break through dedicated RU physical walls:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 356-421 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 320-377 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Kabutops is definitely not without flaws. With or without AV, it still is pretty frail and can be worn down really quickly, especially if you're running LO. It also has a weakness to Fighting (one of the most common priority types) and is almost always defeated by the super common Doublade.
Now, to the definition of B rank Pokemon:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. (it can definitely fulfill a niche as a Moltres check w/ AV and can also act as a flimsy Exploud or Meloetta check) Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job (weak to fighting and burns are very annoying) or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank (Doublade rip) , but are otherwise very dangerous (a +1 boost in Speed isn't very hard w/ weak armor and at +2 Kabutops eats most of the tier bar Doublade), may also fall into this category.
To be honest, being able to act as a check to Moltres/Exploud/Meloetta is already a pretty good reason to move it up a bit IMO, but it does have flaws that can hinder it's effectiveness. I want to see what others have to say about this :^)
KACAW! Moltres is undoubtedly one the best RU mons in this meta, forcing teams to run at least one surefire check to ensure that their team doesn't get decimated by the bird. Kabutops is a really damn good check to Moltres, being able to tank Fire Blast/Hurricane with no problem when equipped with an Assault Vest (which I see gaining popularity). It can also It has priority in Aqua Jet and has access to
The fossil isn't only limited to its ability to check one the best mons in the game as it has access to a neat combination of Weak Armor + Jet + SD. With its decent base 105 Defense, it can easily switch in into most neutral and resisted physical attacks and proceed to nab a +1 boost which makes up for it's lackluster speed. Swords Dance allows it to break through dedicated RU physical walls:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 356-421 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 320-377 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Kabutops is definitely not without flaws. With or without AV, it still is pretty frail and can be worn down really quickly, especially if you're running LO. It also has a weakness to Fighting (one of the most common priority types) and is almost always defeated by the super common Doublade.
Now, to the definition of B rank Pokemon:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. (it can definitely fulfill a niche as a Moltres check w/ AV and can also act as a flimsy Exploud or Meloetta check) Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job (weak to fighting and burns are very annoying) or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank (Doublade rip) , but are otherwise very dangerous (a +1 boost in Speed isn't very hard w/ weak armor and at +2 Kabutops eats most of the tier bar Doublade), may also fall into this category.
To be honest, being able to act as a check to Moltres/Exploud/Meloetta is already a pretty good reason to move it up a bit IMO, but it does have flaws that can hinder it's effectiveness. I want to see what others have to say about this :^)
alright i guess i'll talk about this
-> A Rank - Delphox has really fallen from grace as of late. While it does love the support it gets from the ever present Spiritomb and Skuntank which helps it a lot, they are also one of its worst enemies, as if it manages to get in safely, which in all honesty isn't too hard if played right, it essentially is guaranteed to kill Fox. Along with this, it faces severe competition from Moltres, who is pretty much dominating the metagame right now, as the bird does nearly everything better than Delphox, aside from Calm Mind sets, which are only really good against defensive teams, and that's assuming they're not carrying Assault Vest Slowking. Speaking of which, Slowking remains as a massive presence in the current metagame despite the uprising of Spiritomb and Skuntank as Pursuit trappers, making it hard for Delphox to do a large amount of damage pretty much any time it comes in. Foxwaif was better than Molt in a metagame where a lot of common Pokemon had a high amount of Speed and Stealth Rock was harder to remove, which simply isn't the case anymore.
-> A Rank - Spiritomb is really one of the best offensive Pokemon in the metagame at the moment; it's the best answer to virtually every Psychic-type in the current metagame, as it beats all the offensive ones with Sucker Punch + Pursuit, and even the defensive Psychic-types, particularly Reuniclus, fall to it, as Spiritomb can stop its setup with Taunt. Because of this, it promotes the growing Fire-spam from Molt and Delph, letting both break through teams with their common answers removed. It really is a pain in the ass for most teams, especially those Gligar / Slowking / Moltres teams that are everywhere and the metagame, and as such, I think that it should move up.
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Will go through all of the possible changes on higher ranks right now. Will try to get straight to the point on all of them:
Doublade and Meloetta - from S to A+ (the former's been brought up the most, but since dropping Meloetta is a possibility, I might as well go for it anyway)
Both have defined the metagame a lot, but as it's known by now, that also brings some drawbacks regarding the Pokemon's effectiveness. Doublade is extremely one-dimensional and is usually the easiest piece to wear down out of most defensive cores. However, its only set brings a lot of utility to the table due to the amount of Pokemon it checks and its ability to sweep unprepared teams. Meloetta is the opposite of Doublade, and the best term to describe her role in the metagame would be: "jack of all trades, master of none", due to its ability to punch holes with its Choice Specs set, serve as a glue for stall teams with its access to Perish Song and Heal Bell, be the centerpiece of teams thanks to both its Calm Mind and Relic Song sets and so on. However, even with that sheer versatility by its side, it's not rocket science to figure out what set Meloetta is using by taking a look at the team it's in.
If we consider how much these Pokemon shape the metagame (Doublade keeps Cobalion, Virizion, Slurpuff and many other Pokemon from running rampant, while Meloetta helped making Spiritomb as popular as it is), it's safe to keep both of them in S. However, since that's not what this thread is about (or so I think), I'd push both of them down to A+, especially Doublade.
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Delphox - from A+ to A or A-
Has a gigantic niche as an offensive Fire-type that is worth using over Moltres under some occasions. However, the existence of the later in the metagame hurt it immensely, as everyone is already over prepared against Moltres, and most of the counters for the later also fare well against Delphox. However, since Delphox still has some niches in the metagame (Switcheroo, Calm Mind, and can even form some nifty offensive cores with Moltres), it's completely fine to keep it in the A ranks, but A+ is really stretching it out.
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Hitmonlee - From A+ to A
Really fell out of flavor. A Pokemon commonly seen on Hyper Offense that can't really stop Gligar from Defogging is sort of prejudicial for the playstyle's effectiveness, although it's true that it provides utility through Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Its main STAB move feels really awkward too, since it's impossible to spam safely until very late in the game (and Hitmonlee doesn't really have the Speed to clean up either). A rank it is.
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Mega Abomasnow - from A to A+ or S
Yes, you have all of my support for this one. This is the Pokemon for high level RU play. It manhandles the typical balanced team, and the metagame's never been kinder for the frosty tree in general (sorry for giving it these nicknames, but it's just so adorable). It also has the advantage of having two (or possibly more, but no one's gone further than two right now) viable sets, negating any issues in regards to being one-dimensional. Besides doing well against balance, it also has amazing match ups against both offensive (thanks to its deceivingly good bulk and priority Ice Shard) and stall teams (ability to go mixed or Swords Dance. Both sets do well against that archetype).
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Amoonguss and Druddigon - From A to A-
Two really good Pokemon that fulfill specific niches that, in my opinion, just aren't worth ranking so high. Amoonguss is always seen doing the same thing, and while it's good at that, it fails to check enough threats to keep it worth ranking in A (for the record, it gets demolished by some of the most common Pokemon, such as Moltres, Meloetta, and Abomasnow). Druddigon is versatile, but it's actually quite easy to find yourself thinking about its 4 MSS. The Druddigon set I've found the most success with was a hybrid of the Stealth Rock setter and the fully defensive set, with Stealth Rock / Dragon Tail / Toxic / Glare. While two status moves seems counterproductive at first, Toxic is the only way Druddigon has of getting past Defog Gligar, but sometimes the ability to paralyze something is required (against faster hit and run Pokemon for example), so Glare is kept as well. Being one of the few viable Dragon-types in RU also helps it too, but it just doesn't have the traits that Dragon-types like to have (ability to go mixed, set up moves, etc).
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Escavalier - from A to A-
Good Pokemon. However, the amount of support it requires to work properly (Wish, hazard removal, etc), mean that it just doesn't cut out as an A ranked Pokemon. It's also total set up bait for Fletchinder, which I'll get to right now:
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Fletchinder - from A- to A
100% dependent on Defog support. However, it brings unparalleled amounts of utility to a team, thanks to its strong priority, recovery, Will-O-Wisp, Swords Dance, decent defensive typing and so on. It wrecks a ridiculous amount of teams, and can set up for free on the aforementioned Escavalier, Gligar and some others, while also wearing down its common checks with Will-O-Wisp.
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Spiritomb - from A- to A
Bouffalant has managed to cover this one well enough. It's a strong utility Pokemon that supports the most commonly used Pokemon flawlessly, while also checking a myriad of threads on its own. It's also worth mentioning that it has another more under-appreciated set, CroTomb, which can serve as a win condition for stall teams, an even more solid Reuniclus check (although it needs some investment to 2HKO it with Dark Pulse assuming equal amount of boosts).
I'll go over the lower rank changes some other time, but for now, I think that discussion should be focusing on these.
Doublade and Meloetta - from S to A+ (the former's been brought up the most, but since dropping Meloetta is a possibility, I might as well go for it anyway)
Both have defined the metagame a lot, but as it's known by now, that also brings some drawbacks regarding the Pokemon's effectiveness. Doublade is extremely one-dimensional and is usually the easiest piece to wear down out of most defensive cores. However, its only set brings a lot of utility to the table due to the amount of Pokemon it checks and its ability to sweep unprepared teams. Meloetta is the opposite of Doublade, and the best term to describe her role in the metagame would be: "jack of all trades, master of none", due to its ability to punch holes with its Choice Specs set, serve as a glue for stall teams with its access to Perish Song and Heal Bell, be the centerpiece of teams thanks to both its Calm Mind and Relic Song sets and so on. However, even with that sheer versatility by its side, it's not rocket science to figure out what set Meloetta is using by taking a look at the team it's in.
If we consider how much these Pokemon shape the metagame (Doublade keeps Cobalion, Virizion, Slurpuff and many other Pokemon from running rampant, while Meloetta helped making Spiritomb as popular as it is), it's safe to keep both of them in S. However, since that's not what this thread is about (or so I think), I'd push both of them down to A+, especially Doublade.
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Delphox - from A+ to A or A-
Has a gigantic niche as an offensive Fire-type that is worth using over Moltres under some occasions. However, the existence of the later in the metagame hurt it immensely, as everyone is already over prepared against Moltres, and most of the counters for the later also fare well against Delphox. However, since Delphox still has some niches in the metagame (Switcheroo, Calm Mind, and can even form some nifty offensive cores with Moltres), it's completely fine to keep it in the A ranks, but A+ is really stretching it out.
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Hitmonlee - From A+ to A
Really fell out of flavor. A Pokemon commonly seen on Hyper Offense that can't really stop Gligar from Defogging is sort of prejudicial for the playstyle's effectiveness, although it's true that it provides utility through Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Its main STAB move feels really awkward too, since it's impossible to spam safely until very late in the game (and Hitmonlee doesn't really have the Speed to clean up either). A rank it is.
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Mega Abomasnow - from A to A+ or S
Yes, you have all of my support for this one. This is the Pokemon for high level RU play. It manhandles the typical balanced team, and the metagame's never been kinder for the frosty tree in general (sorry for giving it these nicknames, but it's just so adorable). It also has the advantage of having two (or possibly more, but no one's gone further than two right now) viable sets, negating any issues in regards to being one-dimensional. Besides doing well against balance, it also has amazing match ups against both offensive (thanks to its deceivingly good bulk and priority Ice Shard) and stall teams (ability to go mixed or Swords Dance. Both sets do well against that archetype).
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Amoonguss and Druddigon - From A to A-
Two really good Pokemon that fulfill specific niches that, in my opinion, just aren't worth ranking so high. Amoonguss is always seen doing the same thing, and while it's good at that, it fails to check enough threats to keep it worth ranking in A (for the record, it gets demolished by some of the most common Pokemon, such as Moltres, Meloetta, and Abomasnow). Druddigon is versatile, but it's actually quite easy to find yourself thinking about its 4 MSS. The Druddigon set I've found the most success with was a hybrid of the Stealth Rock setter and the fully defensive set, with Stealth Rock / Dragon Tail / Toxic / Glare. While two status moves seems counterproductive at first, Toxic is the only way Druddigon has of getting past Defog Gligar, but sometimes the ability to paralyze something is required (against faster hit and run Pokemon for example), so Glare is kept as well. Being one of the few viable Dragon-types in RU also helps it too, but it just doesn't have the traits that Dragon-types like to have (ability to go mixed, set up moves, etc).
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Escavalier - from A to A-
Good Pokemon. However, the amount of support it requires to work properly (Wish, hazard removal, etc), mean that it just doesn't cut out as an A ranked Pokemon. It's also total set up bait for Fletchinder, which I'll get to right now:
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Fletchinder - from A- to A
100% dependent on Defog support. However, it brings unparalleled amounts of utility to a team, thanks to its strong priority, recovery, Will-O-Wisp, Swords Dance, decent defensive typing and so on. It wrecks a ridiculous amount of teams, and can set up for free on the aforementioned Escavalier, Gligar and some others, while also wearing down its common checks with Will-O-Wisp.
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Spiritomb - from A- to A
Bouffalant has managed to cover this one well enough. It's a strong utility Pokemon that supports the most commonly used Pokemon flawlessly, while also checking a myriad of threads on its own. It's also worth mentioning that it has another more under-appreciated set, CroTomb, which can serve as a win condition for stall teams, an even more solid Reuniclus check (although it needs some investment to 2HKO it with Dark Pulse assuming equal amount of boosts).
I'll go over the lower rank changes some other time, but for now, I think that discussion should be focusing on these.
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tehy
Banned deucer.
Mega Abomasnow is such yes for S. Really, everything everyone's said-it has two sets that tear each others checks apart, and each set itself is fucking deadly anyhow. Gen 4 Mixmence with bulk and priority, wuut
A few things;basically, I recently replaced Registeel with Steelix on my team. Related to this, I want Registeel down and Steelix up. Here's the logic.
Yeah, registeel is bulky as fuck. But, what do you want to switch it into on an offensive team to SR on? And what do you want it to even stay in on?
Fact is, surprisingly little. Mostly, you have Meloetta (If they have dugtrio, SR is your death), Exploud (Fair enough but Fire Blast), and Braviary (u-turn and superpower and SubBU), as well as a few other more less-used things-Mismagius, offensive whimsicott, slurpuff, cincinno and ambipom, jynx and sceptile.
There are many others that, because of your bulk, you could switch into and SR on, but then be very weakened and have to switch out of, or lose your lefties/get burned from.
Now, there are two objections here.
1: But, defensive mons!
Well, like i said offensive teams, but to expand-cool, it rocks against defensive teams and balance. However, defensive teams can wear it down fairly easily and it lacks reliable recovery, as can balance teams to a lesser extent, so it's not that great against them either.
2:Electrics!
Meet Volt Switch. Despite Registeel's crazy bulk, it's still worn down fairly easily by Volt Switch spam. Since Volt Switch is so damn good and non-punishable, why not just spam the fuck out of it? If you can lure a coverage move, you can switch in, but other than that...happy hunting!
Ultimately, I just don't find the time to switch in Registeel, and as a result, rarely get up rocks. Its anti-exploud capabilities are ballerific, and it's pretty nice against meloetta too, but honestly, what else is it walling? And of course, it's Dou setup bait, woo.
Steelix, on the other hand...
First off, it's a really strong dou check-not a counter, but can take 2 +2 claws and do around 80% back with EQ. And this is SpD spread.
I always know what it's switching in-against-Electric-types! Some like rotom-c and eelektross can punish this, but at least they can't just mindlessly grab the momentum like little momentum-hugging babies. It also deals with Magneton, very very nice. If you're using Toxic, it can beat fog gligar, much more easily than registeel thanks to the bulk.
It's great against SD drapion, i.e. the baddest motherfucker in town. Actually, it could be doing better, can't take 2 +2 eqs or tails without full health, so maybe some physD is in order (SpD is for Ploud Boomburst doe).
It's great against SD Mega Abomasnow and Hone Claws Durant, i.e. the other baddest mothers in town, with Fire Fang (which deserves a main set slash after Toxic or before it, Roar needs to gtfo). Oh yeah it checks escav with Fang nicely too.
It's pretty good against melotta, even SubCM or w/e and doesn't get Dugtrio trapped.
It checks Exploud too.
Take Heavy Slam to the nutsack CM Aromatisse.
4 Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 204-240 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Physical normals/birds checked much better thanks to bulk and hitback capabilities. Easier to rock on without fucks-giving
Now the bad news
Not that specially or even THAT physically bulky, slow, not a great exploud check, can't take blizzards from mega aboma.
Ultimately though it has a better switch in base imo, counters a ton of bad mothefuckers even if you're not rocking with it.
Not sure about ranks exactly, regidown lixxy up.
A few things;basically, I recently replaced Registeel with Steelix on my team. Related to this, I want Registeel down and Steelix up. Here's the logic.
Yeah, registeel is bulky as fuck. But, what do you want to switch it into on an offensive team to SR on? And what do you want it to even stay in on?
Fact is, surprisingly little. Mostly, you have Meloetta (If they have dugtrio, SR is your death), Exploud (Fair enough but Fire Blast), and Braviary (u-turn and superpower and SubBU), as well as a few other more less-used things-Mismagius, offensive whimsicott, slurpuff, cincinno and ambipom, jynx and sceptile.
There are many others that, because of your bulk, you could switch into and SR on, but then be very weakened and have to switch out of, or lose your lefties/get burned from.
Now, there are two objections here.
1: But, defensive mons!
Well, like i said offensive teams, but to expand-cool, it rocks against defensive teams and balance. However, defensive teams can wear it down fairly easily and it lacks reliable recovery, as can balance teams to a lesser extent, so it's not that great against them either.
2:Electrics!
Meet Volt Switch. Despite Registeel's crazy bulk, it's still worn down fairly easily by Volt Switch spam. Since Volt Switch is so damn good and non-punishable, why not just spam the fuck out of it? If you can lure a coverage move, you can switch in, but other than that...happy hunting!
Ultimately, I just don't find the time to switch in Registeel, and as a result, rarely get up rocks. Its anti-exploud capabilities are ballerific, and it's pretty nice against meloetta too, but honestly, what else is it walling? And of course, it's Dou setup bait, woo.
Steelix, on the other hand...
First off, it's a really strong dou check-not a counter, but can take 2 +2 claws and do around 80% back with EQ. And this is SpD spread.
I always know what it's switching in-against-Electric-types! Some like rotom-c and eelektross can punish this, but at least they can't just mindlessly grab the momentum like little momentum-hugging babies. It also deals with Magneton, very very nice. If you're using Toxic, it can beat fog gligar, much more easily than registeel thanks to the bulk.
It's great against SD drapion, i.e. the baddest motherfucker in town. Actually, it could be doing better, can't take 2 +2 eqs or tails without full health, so maybe some physD is in order (SpD is for Ploud Boomburst doe).
It's great against SD Mega Abomasnow and Hone Claws Durant, i.e. the other baddest mothers in town, with Fire Fang (which deserves a main set slash after Toxic or before it, Roar needs to gtfo). Oh yeah it checks escav with Fang nicely too.
It's pretty good against melotta, even SubCM or w/e and doesn't get Dugtrio trapped.
It checks Exploud too.
Take Heavy Slam to the nutsack CM Aromatisse.
4 Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 204-240 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Physical normals/birds checked much better thanks to bulk and hitback capabilities. Easier to rock on without fucks-giving
Now the bad news
Not that specially or even THAT physically bulky, slow, not a great exploud check, can't take blizzards from mega aboma.
Ultimately though it has a better switch in base imo, counters a ton of bad mothefuckers even if you're not rocking with it.
Not sure about ranks exactly, regidown lixxy up.
Whirlipede from unranked to D
I've been testing with this set for a bit.
Whirlipede is kind of a mix between Spikes + TSpikes setter; qwilfish, and suicide lead Archeops with Endeavor. With Speed Boost and Protect, Whirlipede should be able to outspeed any threats so it can set up its Tspikes and spikes efficiently, while knowing when to endeavor against foes who do not have priority moves.
I've been testing with this set for a bit.
Whirlipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor
- Spikes
- Protect
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor
- Spikes
- Protect
Whirlipede is kind of a mix between Spikes + TSpikes setter; qwilfish, and suicide lead Archeops with Endeavor. With Speed Boost and Protect, Whirlipede should be able to outspeed any threats so it can set up its Tspikes and spikes efficiently, while knowing when to endeavor against foes who do not have priority moves.
GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
Molk
i dont rly see a problem with SammySonicFan going to D as it is pretty trash and normlly not worth it but it has a rly small niche
Literally get scyther out of D right now, this thoung should be AT LEAST C+. I've already expressed my undying love for it, but it's CB, CScarf, and offensive SD sets are both really cool and useful against a lot of the meta and idk why it isn't used more. Scyther isn't useless trash like ambipom or hitmonchan, and it shouldn't be ranked along with that garbage. Heck, this thing hit a ton of S through A rank threats super effectively with some pretty strong moves and outspeeds a bunch of them, so i relly don't see a reason for this thing to be ranked so low. Maybe I'm missing something, but the only thing i see holding it back right now is a 4x SR weakness which hasn't stopped moltres from going anywhere because of it's power.
C+ or higher but C+ is fine for now, baby steps...
Sadly, this thing is still almost always pretty outclassed by Qwilfish, who has access to Intimidate and Taunt, making it an arguably much better suicide lead.
I guess D would be an okay option, as it does have a nice combo Speed Boost + Endeavor, making it actually quite annoying in some situations.
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i've actually discussed sammy for a while with Molk before, because I actually thought it'd be worth D rank at least, but we've reached the conclusion that there's no reason to use it over qwilfish at all, because while endeavor is cool and stuff, whirlipede has no ability to be a hazard guardian by itself, since gligar can stall the hell out of endeavor and defog in its face like nothing ever happened, which is an undesired trait on anything that sets up hazards. while it's true that it can walk all over the unorganized teams you see on the ladder that possess no way of removing hazards whatsoever, in more organized play (hell, it doesn't even need to be the highest level of ru games) it is dead weight unless you're pulling any sort of shenanigan to remove the opposing defog setter.
and speaking of the later, Pawniard definitely needs to be ranked. again, this is something that's been heavily discussed on the backstage, and while the "standard" Swords Dance set molk uses on his team is only good as a pubstomper, there's something that makes it one of the most anti metagame things right now: magnet rise. a set of swords dance, magnet rise and mono dark coverage not only allows pawniard to be an excellent cm psychics check but it also allows him to easily get to +4 on the omnipresent defog gligar and proceed to dismantle whatever defensive core the opponent has. it's really niche though, so D fits it well, considering it still is unable to pull through stuff like Cobalion (which is a shame cause it's one of the most common Gligar partners too).
edit: responding to tehy
while there's no problem moving steelix up (i like it a lot too, it's a really under-appreciated mon that works well even in balanced teams), registeel should stay where it is. it's probably one of the closest things in A- from moving up I'd say. while it's defensive core is only a B rank at best, offering as much as the lower ranked steel-types, its curse set is an easy A rank as a counterpart, providing an even more solid counter to anything it's supposed to counter already (while being nearly impossible for dugtrio to trap if you play it cleverly), but having more self-sufficiency and being one of the best win conditions available for a stall team. Hot N Cold and Spirit have both used it for great effectiveness, with the former sort of being the pioneer for it.
responding to GlassGlaceon
sss (scyther sucks son)
now really, sd has a huge 4mss w/o being able to actually break some key targets it's supposed to. choice band might be decent, but then again, i'd rather use my 4x sr weak mon slot on moltres or even fletchinder
and speaking of the later, Pawniard definitely needs to be ranked. again, this is something that's been heavily discussed on the backstage, and while the "standard" Swords Dance set molk uses on his team is only good as a pubstomper, there's something that makes it one of the most anti metagame things right now: magnet rise. a set of swords dance, magnet rise and mono dark coverage not only allows pawniard to be an excellent cm psychics check but it also allows him to easily get to +4 on the omnipresent defog gligar and proceed to dismantle whatever defensive core the opponent has. it's really niche though, so D fits it well, considering it still is unable to pull through stuff like Cobalion (which is a shame cause it's one of the most common Gligar partners too).
edit: responding to tehy
while there's no problem moving steelix up (i like it a lot too, it's a really under-appreciated mon that works well even in balanced teams), registeel should stay where it is. it's probably one of the closest things in A- from moving up I'd say. while it's defensive core is only a B rank at best, offering as much as the lower ranked steel-types, its curse set is an easy A rank as a counterpart, providing an even more solid counter to anything it's supposed to counter already (while being nearly impossible for dugtrio to trap if you play it cleverly), but having more self-sufficiency and being one of the best win conditions available for a stall team. Hot N Cold and Spirit have both used it for great effectiveness, with the former sort of being the pioneer for it.
responding to GlassGlaceon
sss (scyther sucks son)
now really, sd has a huge 4mss w/o being able to actually break some key targets it's supposed to. choice band might be decent, but then again, i'd rather use my 4x sr weak mon slot on moltres or even fletchinder
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Sorry Pearl but I don' t understand because you want to drop Doublade and Meloetta. Perphaps I'm wrong but I can't read real motivations to do that. Doublade's monoset is always powerful. After a SD with its good defense and priority, you see simply opponent mons drop down. Versatily Meoletta is fantastic, really important when you are building because you can find right set for you. And they are all togheter valid.
Unless we want only an S pokemon (Moltres), I think Doublade and Meloetta are just in the right rank
Unless we want only an S pokemon (Moltres), I think Doublade and Meloetta are just in the right rank
phantom
Banned deucer.
Yeah I agree with pearl on Registeel. The defensive set is above average at best as it is with other Steel-types such as Bronzong and Steelix; however, the Curse set is where the money is. Just by using Curse, not only can Registeel act as a great win condition, but it can counter a many threats it couldn't beat before, such as CM Reuniclus (they only run Shadow Ball for Doublade, and at +6 it can't 2HKO Registeel, while at +6 Registeel can 2HKO back), CM Cresselia, CM Meloetta, Bulk Up Braviary, Swords Dance Fletchinder, etc and this also not taking into account that Dugtrio has a really hard time trapping it. Curse is the best set in the meta and is an easy A rank imo. Great sweeper, self-sufficient, plenty of set up opportunities, and checks well over half the meta.
Doublade needs to drop though. The difference between it and Meloetta (and other S-rank threats) is that it's one dimensional as shit, has a million checks/counters, and no way to get around them on its own. Don't get me wrong, Doublade is still a great Pokemon, but it's so overprepared for to the point where it just doesn't sweep anymore. Unlike Meloetta, Doublade has a difficult time getting around any of its checks without support whereas Meloetta can pick and choose what it wants to beat. The meta adapted to Doublade and it's about time that it moves down.
Doublade needs to drop though. The difference between it and Meloetta (and other S-rank threats) is that it's one dimensional as shit, has a million checks/counters, and no way to get around them on its own. Don't get me wrong, Doublade is still a great Pokemon, but it's so overprepared for to the point where it just doesn't sweep anymore. Unlike Meloetta, Doublade has a difficult time getting around any of its checks without support whereas Meloetta can pick and choose what it wants to beat. The meta adapted to Doublade and it's about time that it moves down.
Yup, I agree w/ Spirit on this. The Quasar "powerful" doesn't really mean all that much if every team is prepared for Doublade (in which every team is). Sorry for the one-liner, but I have to go and will write more when I get back :^)
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