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I want to say something really small here, but Dugtrio actually seems like a very good teammate with M-Pidgeot. If you U-Turn on the predicted Heatran switch in, you can pop a potential Air Balloon and simply send in Dugtrio, trap it, and kill it. It also deals well with Tyranitar with Focus Sash Reversal if you really want to go that route. It would give Dugtrio a nice nitche at least.
So, HP Ground isn't particularly needed if you have the right teammate.
I want to say something really small here, but Dugtrio actually seems like a very good teammate with M-Pidgeot. If you U-Turn on the predicted Heatran switch in, you can pop a potential Air Balloon and simply send in Dugtrio, trap it, and kill it. It also deals well with Tyranitar with Focus Sash Reversal if you really want to go that route. It would give Dugtrio a nice nitche at least.
So, HP Ground isn't particularly needed if you have the right teammate.
yeah that works exactly as sd liechi berry talonflame in xy but you dont need to waste a turn to "dance" since you'll go directly with hp ground if predicted correctly
Yeah I'm doing the calcs and quite frankly, HP Ground is pretty damn redundant. It's only benefit is that it would keep Heatran from completely walling Pidgeot.
Anyway, about Dugtrio, it sounds to me like bzzzz. Boring, very weak, extremely low resistance and use it is the same thing as staying with one less, since this is completely situational.
I want to say something really small here, but Dugtrio actually seems like a very good teammate with M-Pidgeot. If you U-Turn on the predicted Heatran switch in, you can pop a potential Air Balloon and simply send in Dugtrio, trap it, and kill it. It also deals well with Tyranitar with Focus Sash Reversal if you really want to go that route. It would give Dugtrio a nice nitche at least.
Was a bit weary about putting Dugtrio as an option as it's pretty damn niche, but will be listing it as an option as an almost guaranteed takedown of Heatran, TTar, and defensively weak special walls is pretty nifty for Pidgeot.
HP Ground is straight up bad in most situations beyond Heatran. It is included as something to note in the additional comments section, but will not be mentioned beyond that. Please stop posting in this topic regarding HP Ground in such a rude manner, because there is really nothing else that can be said about it.
ill just post this here as well, duggy is by far pidgeot best teammate.
okay so this is a core i really like and i have to say it's very solid! as i stated in some off my earlier posts i thought dugtrio might become a decent ou pokemon once again, which it hasn't been since the bw era (sun teams and hurricane + trap) this core is very similar to how bw2 torn-t + duggy worked and it's still good. so because pidgeot + duggy is very weak to rocks and keldeo, having a good defoger + a nice answer to keldeo in one pokemon made latias a great choice, it also has healing wish which is huge for a core like this. utilizing u-turn + arena trap WILL let u trap the pokemon u want eventually as the opposing player has to predict every time, this puts a lot off pressure on ur opponent and can easely been taken advantage off as they will often overpredict. i also run hp grass on pidgeot because it beats rotom-w the last check to pidgeot since duggy beats everything else lol, hp grass 2hko's after two rounds off rocks or 1 hp grass + two hurricanes or however u want to kill it. i have to say im surprised how well this core actually worked in the current meta, but i guess trapping is one off the best playstyles in oras atm. im gonna put a replay for this core as well. also i guess u can put w/e u want in the last slot for pidgeot anyway.
edit: heal wish latias supports the core better than latios, which means latias is the supperios choice here.
I wonder if toxic is worth putting on pidgeot. The only things that are switching into this are electrics and bulky rock types and none of those appreciate toxic. When they coem in next time, just U-turn out and grab momentum.
Losing a move though kinda does suck, as you're either giving up roost/u-turn or heat wave, but if you team has steels covered, you could always slap toxic on.
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. This thing will do fantastically in UU. I can't think of anything that is faster than it while able to do significant damage/resist it's hits.
EDIT: this thing=mega pidgeot not base. Base will stay PU or NU wherever it already is.
Was a bit weary about putting Dugtrio as an option as it's pretty damn niche, but will be listing it as an option as an almost guaranteed takedown of Heatran, TTar, and defensively weak special walls is pretty nifty for Pidgeot.
HP Ground is straight up bad in most situations beyond Heatran. It is included as something to note in the additional comments section, but will not be mentioned beyond that. Please stop posting in this topic regarding HP Ground in such a rude manner, because there is really nothing else that can be said about it.
Please do not make me laugh more than I already did yesterday.
It is you guys who are trying to push an untruth, trying to convince someone that HP ground only serves to Heatran, this is completely situational, forgetting to analyze all the context. No guard is a ability that acts as a double edged sword, on one hand the main techniques Pidgeot work effectively, for others it is vulnerable to all his weaknesses, like Thunder, Blizzard and Stone Edge.
I do not speak unkindly, my point is obvious, HP ground is for hitting these weaknesses, as electric and stone. You invent a totally preposterous situation and out of context for why I have put HP Ground.
If you guys think there is no other use, this is not my problem, but do not try to push it to others!
HP Ground is a better option than U-turn / Work Up / Defog.
So much she is already own, as an option, on the set of smogon.
Please do not make me laugh more than I already did yesterday.
It is you guys who are trying to push an untruth, trying to convince someone that HP ground only serves to Heatran, this is completely situational, forgetting to analyze all the context. No guard is a ability that acts as a double edged sword, on one hand the main techniques Pidgeot work effectively, for others it is vulnerable to all his weaknesses, like Thunder, Blizzard and Stone Edge.
I do not speak unkindly, my point is obvious, HP ground is for hitting these weaknesses, as electric and stone. You invent a totally preposterous situation and out of context for why I have put HP Ground.
If you guys think there is no other use, this is not my problem, but do not try to push it to others!
HP Ground is a better option than U-turn / Work Up / Defog.
So much she is already, as an option, on the set of smogon own.
You're joking right? Can you please name an electric type in OU that isn't part flying?
Before you get cheeky and mention mManectric, he outspeeds and easily kills.
Hidden Power Ground just to hit heatran and...mega ampharos (I guess?) is situational and certainly useful but it definitely doesn't trump the competition.
U-turn is great for momentum and a nice little middle finger to tyranitar switches.
Defog is hugely useful especially since you can force switches and can lure bisharp.
Work up can be really useful to secure KO's or just hit harder in general, and marginally help if you carry u-turn or even quick attack.
You're joking right? Can you please name an electric type in OU that isn't part flying?
Before you get cheeky and mention mManectric, he outspeeds and easily kills.
Hidden Power Ground just to hit heatran and...mega ampharos (I guess?) is situational and certainly useful but it definitely doesn't trump the competition.
U-turn is great for momentum and a nice little middle finger to tyranitar switches.
Defog is hugely useful especially since you can force switches and can lure bisharp.
Work up can be really useful to secure KO's or just hit harder in general, and marginally help if you carry u-turn or even quick attack.
It's funny that you say I quoted nonsense, because I quoted your post...
Anyway dude, I read your post! Really! You said that HP ground is better than other support options such as defog, roost, u-turn, and work up, because it can also hit rock and electric types!
But let me go into more detail why thats not a good idea.
Calcs against relevant rock or electric pokemon:
Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 78-92 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Here is choice scarf Tyranitar
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 90-108 (26.3 - 31.6%) -- 40% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Here is specially defensive Tyranitar
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 66-78 (16.3 - 19.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Here is Mega Ampharos
Specially defensive
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 92-110 (24 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Agility sweeper
252 SpA Pidgeot Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Ampharos: 124-148 (38.6 - 46.1%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
There are no other relevant rock or electric mons in OU.
Mega Manectric outspeeds you.
Tyranitar laughs off the damage and can even set up as you try to abuse
Mega ampharos similarly isn't bothered and can set up.
A move that hits one hard counter and minimal damage even against other supereffective hits is hardly the superior choice to the momentum u turn can give you, the support and lure options of defog, the boosts from work up, the recovery of roost.
HP ground isnt unviable, it just certainly isn't the best option.
It is you guys who are trying to push an untruth, trying to convince someone that HP ground only serves to Heatran, this is completely situational, forgetting to analyze all the context.
Actually I'm the one that brought up HP Ground to start with (kinda wish I hadn't since it's caused all this arguing) and even I acknowledged it was only for Heatran lol
Hurricane spam would absolutely destroy RU and UU. I'm predicting it's going to be BL. It really isn't good to use in OU because it's walled by a lot and requires a lot of team support, but at the same time, it 2HKOs almost everything in UU / RU not named Blissey.
UU? Hippowdon and Aerodactyl core..
RU? Jolteon or Rhyperior?
Then again we'll just have to see how many people will be willing to use it but I'm betting my lucky dollar this fella might just be a contrast of Mega Beedrill
UU? Hippowdon and Aerodactyl core..
RU? Jolteon or Rhyperior?
Then again we'll just have to see how many people will be willing to use it but I'm betting my lucky dollar this fella might just be a contrast of Mega Beedrill
Hippowdown gets flattened by Hurricane, and Pidgeot's HP becomes significantly more viable at the lower ranks, especially RU, where Rhyperior and Jolt won't always be able to take an HP Water or Ground happily. I imagine if it drops it'll have a pretty comfortable place in UU where it inarguably 2HKO's the majority of the metagame with Hurricane / Heat Wave alone, not to mention base 121 speed that is fantastic in UU. U-Turn alone almost totally nullifies the Aerodactyl argument unless you sack a mon to Pidgeot, in which case that only helps our birds viability.
I never said that Hippowdon would be countering it...
Also, Aero resists heat wave and hurricane in which sandstream becomes useful raising sp def and what not.
Coupled with stealth rock and a single STAB perfectly accurate rockslide and out.
As for Jolteon and Rhyperior, Jolteon outspeeds it and Rhyperior can tank it with the help of items. Potentially Pidgeot has the capability to knock them out however hence due to their equal potentials they would be in the same tier. Isn't that kind of how this works?
I never said that Hippowdon would be countering it...
Also, Aero resists heat wave and hurricane in which sandstream becomes useful raising sp def and what not.
Coupled with stealth rock and a single STAB perfectly accurate rockslide and out.
As for Jolteon and Rhyperior, Jolteon outspeeds it and Rhyperior can tank it with the help of items. Potentially Pidgeot has the capability to knock them out however hence due to their equal potentials they would be in the same tier. Isn't that kind of how this works?
We know Aero is a good counter, but Aero + Hippowdown isn't really a thing in UU because Aero really doesn't need or want Hippo most of the time to begin with. At the end of the day, Pidgeot still has U-Turn to fake out Aero, so it's not like he's helpless.
Jolteon outspeeds, but is still fragile and easily walled, which is why it's still garbage even in UU. Rhyperior can't really tank anything special that well, solid rock only goes so far, and an AV set is straight up awful. Putting it in RU just because "Aerodactyl" is very weak logic, and naming obscure and only partial checks like Jolteon and Rhyperior doesn't really add weight to that argument.
Assuming it drops, UU is a very, very comfortable place to be considering UU's metagame straight up isn't prepared for special hurricane / heat wave spam bar 2 or 3 pokemon, only one of which, Aerodactyl, is top tier. It's stunningly easy to prepare for Aerodactyl in UU since everyone does right now anyways.
Mega-Aerodactyl won't be the only thing blocking the path for Pidgeot's success in UU. Mega-Ampharos, Empoleon, Blissey, Rotom-Heat and Rhyperior stand out as reliable checks and counters, and three of them, counting Aero, can't be reliably trapped by Dugtrio. But the mon that is probably going to prevent Pidgeot from being viable more than everything else is Tornadus-Incarnate. Sure, Pidgeot is faster and never misses, but Tornadus hits harder and has a pretty huge movepool, both on the physical and the special spectrum, which makes it much more difficult to wall(expecially true if Flying Gem comes out in ORAS) and thus much more threatening before the battle even starts.
And Tornadus isn't even UU by usage.
Mega-Aerodactyl won't be the only thing blocking the path for Pidgeot's success in UU. Mega-Ampharos, Empoleon, Blissey, Rotom-Heat and Rhyperior stand out as reliable checks and counters, and three of them, counting Aero, can't be reliably trapped by Dugtrio. But the mon that is probably going to prevent Pidgeot from being viable more than everything else is Tornadus-Incarnate. Sure, Pidgeot is faster and never misses, but Tornadus hits harder and has a pretty huge movepool, both on the physical and the special spectrum, which makes it much more difficult to wall(expecially true if Flying Gem comes out in ORAS) and thus much more threatening before the battle even starts.
Of those listed, the only ones that are actually reliable checks / counters are Ampharos, Empoleon, and Blissey. Rotom and Rhyperior are ok, but HP Water is going to be great on Pidgeot if it goes UU. Blissey and Empoleon are skating on thin ice in a tier with very threatening fighting types, while Ampharos is good against almost everything in the tier to begin with.
Also, Tornadus is straight up not good because it falls short of great speed benchmarks. It's mixed set isn't even that good either, and it's special attacking set is outclassed by Pidgeot. Even if it does get flying gem, you're comparing an Acrobatics set to a special attacker which is pretty irrelevant. Hurricane is appallingly bad on it unless it's in rain, so it relies on Air Slash, which even with Life Orb it does not hit remotely as hard as Pidgeot.
252 Timid SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ampharos: 101-119 (31.4 - 37%)
252 Timid SpA Life Orb Tornadus Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ampharos: 84-100 (26.1 - 31.1%)
Pidgeot is basically a faster, more reliable special Tornadus I that doesn't need rain. He's not stopping anything, lol.
One of Pidgeot's biggest cons is mounting competition from Torn-T, who hits the same speed tier, but hits harder, has access to Regenerator, and has better coverage. That should be mentioned as a con.
