ORAS UU Discussion

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Swampert is bulky enough to set up its own rain and easiely outspeed the whole unboosted metagame.

Swampert@Swampertnite
Ability: Damp (<- able to switch into Explosion and Torrent won't come into play anyways)
Nature: Adamant
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

This is the set, which is hyped the most in OU, simply because you can't rely on Politoad giving your opponent a possible switch advantage. And I think this works well in UU as well. Swampert has only one huge weakness and if you allow Swampert to set up, it is pretty much over unless you can catch Swampert on a predicted switch.
The reason I am saying that is, what really can reliabily counter or hard check it?
 
Swampert is bulky enough to set up its own rain and easiely outspeed the whole unboosted metagame.

Swampert@Swampertnite
Ability: Damp (<- able to switch into Explosion and Torrent won't come into play anyways)
Nature: Adamant
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

This is the set, which is hyped the most in OU, simply because you can't rely on Politoad giving your opponent a possible switch advantage. And I think this works well in UU as well. Swampert has only one huge weakness and if you allow Swampert to set up, it is pretty much over unless you can catch Swampert on a predicted switch.
The reason I am saying that is, what really can reliabily counter or hard check it?
Ferroseed.
 
Really any slightly bulky grass type will do? Ice Punch is pretty weak at only 75bp, and pert will need a 1hko as its pretty much always going to be 1hko'd back by a STAB 4x effective move. The likes of Shaymin, Celebi and Chestnaught easily stomach an Ice Punch without any investment even. In terms of less common stuff, Abomasnow does pretty well, as does Tangrowth, Virizion, Amoongus and even Ludicolo lel. Bulky waters do fine against it too, and can hit back pretty hard with rain boosted STABs. There's a plethora of counters/checks out there, certainly moreso than the likes of Lucario.
 
Alakazite | UU

Having got the chance to use Megazam both against experienced players and ladder players, I can definitely say that Megazam will be finding its impact in tour play, but that's neither here nor there. The problem for Alakazam I see that is different from stage 2 when it was first released is that the amount of Scarfers from then to now has gone way up and the ways to deal with Faster Pokemon has shifted back to mainly revenge killing. It also feels like the combination of Pokemon that are being run just isn't favourable for Alakazam's success. Even the influx of Spdef Gligar hinders Alakazam as now Gligar can basically put a stop to this threat. I really do think that Alakazam could be broken but from what i've seen and what I played, the spoons are not as good as they once were, so i'm voting UU for mega zam :]

Oh, also losing Magic Guard kinda sucks but hazards weren't an argument for Victini being unbanned so I don't really know if that parallel can be drawn from Mega Zam taking neutral damage off SR, especially when there are so many good ways to remove hazards in UU.


I'm a (BAN ME PLEASE).


I thought this thing would still be broken even after the transition between June --> October, but it turns out I was pretty wrong lol. Ever since Slowbro and Mew left the tier, offense has literally taken over and it has so many ways of applying its pressure against MegaZam i.e. Scarfers and strong priority users, which is why MegaZam hasn't been so overwhelming in this meta as opposed to June's meta.


to start off, its ability is more overrated than i thought it would be, and very rarely comes into actual use (that's not to say trace is useless, though, it just rarely does much for zam and would much rather prefer magic guard), it's also overwhelmed fairly easily by scarfers like krook and common offense cores, particularly the ever so present hydrachi core found on a good portion on offensive teams, and balance can deal with it as well, although it has a harder time with it. it also lacks sash as others have said which pretty much makes its incrased bulk m00t.


It gets a boost in special attack and speed but is significantly hindered by the loss of Magic Guard. It cannot run Sash or ignore residual damage after the first switch in which pretty much cancels out the increased bulk and power. While the speed boost seems significant it actually only outruns two or three specific threats, and its sets have plenty of offensive checks due to its physical frailty and weakness to U-turn which is a staple on the many Scarfers in the tier. So overall I don't think the improved stats have made enough of a difference for it to go from being a viable threat in the tier to being broken.


Trace is rarely useful, the boost in Special Attack and Speed is balanced by its inability to run Sash, all of its sets have plenty of checks, and it cant even OHKO spdef amoonguss with psychic..


while I believe megazam is marginally better than regular zam, i don't think megazam is quite broken. there are situations where it may be too difficult to deal with (tracing things like Sheer Force, adaptability) but those are things you can control. it has some common checks on both offense and defense so it's never really too overwhelming to deal with, even if it does OHKO spdef amoonguss with psyshock.


While mega-zam is meaningfully faster and more bulky that LO zam, the leap from that to "therefore mega-zam is broken" hinges on the concept that normal LO zam is a top-tier threat, which it isn't. Without the capacity to survive priority, scarfed u-turns, and outspeed crobat, LO zam is actually quite bad (and arguably outclassed by espeon), which means we can't evaluate mega-zam on those principles. Mega-zam still has plenty of counterplay, and the loss of magic guard somewhat nullifies its bulk. Trace is circumstantially overpowered, but this is more of an interesting element than it is a game-breaking one.


Didn't play this meta at all really, and I know some of our other newer council members have been wanting to accrue some more points for TC so I'll sit this one out


Didn't play this one.






Calloflochie why is this post just chilling on page 2 of this thread.
 

dingbat

snek
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
After testing a couple more 'mons, here's what I came up with...

Mega Sharpedo: I think Mega Shark plays a role similar to that of its non-mega counterpart, but with the biggest differences being its increased bulk that can now handle Lucario's Extremespeed and its ability, essentially trading off its Speed boost for a free CB boost on one of its STABs, Crunch (as well as Ice Fang), and that power is certainly not to be underestimated. For instance, I battled King UU with my neutral-natured Mega Shark (outspeeding ScarfRachi after mega-Evo) and Crunch was able to shave down more than half of Vappy's HP (which had defense investment ofc), and that's definitely a showcase of the damage Mega Shark can cause against 'mons that have less physical bulk than Vappy has.

Mega Altaria: 110 Base Attack and 80 Base Speed might be underwhelming for a sweeper, especially one of Mega caliber, but with its new Fairy typing + Pixilate, that basically changes everything.

Gonna edit this post later to elaborate more on the two.
 
I have a question that leads to a further question for ORAS UU. I have been away from the UU tier for a few months ( I enjoy low tier but once played the UU tier) how is my buddy Zygarde doing in this tier at the moment? I used to run a fully defensive Zyg and thoroughly enjoyed it in the tier. So how has it been doing now in the tier (if it even still is in UU) and how do you think (if it still is in UU) it will be in ORAS?
 
Tornadus-I@ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Naive
252 SpAtk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
-Hurricane
-Knock Off
-U-turn
-Rain dance

Swampert@Swampertnite
Ability: Damp
Nature: Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power up Punch

I see this Core to be a beast of a duo! Tornadus threatens everything that threatens swampert. And swampert gets an easy switch in on bulky steels and rocks. U-Turn really makes it easier for Swampert to set up and sweep. The EVs with Tornadus can be played around. Power up Punch really makes a difference in this set. Turns alot of 2HKO into OHKOs along with SR. Only bulky grass (celebi, Chesnaught, tangrowth) can really stop Swampert + 1 and threaten to KO. This will be killer if Swampert comes down.
 
Hydreigon might actually leave us because of the insane amount of new crap the scarf set checks. I also think a lot of the old megas are going to be BL, due to everyone overusing the new stuff in the first couple of months, possibly causing some to drop by usage.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Nah Hydreigon was pretty bad in XY OU, unless something changes I'm not sure if Hydra will be any better in ORAS OU lol.

Anyways, stepping away from the megas and tutor-buffed mons, I saw the recent usage stats today, and at this rate we could be getting Mandibuzz from OU in the next tier shift. This could give us a really neat addition to UU, as it could make an excellent bulky Defogger that can stallbreak, and it will also be one of the best Krookodile answers in the tier. Sylveon isn't likely but it could happen, and it could give us a nice Fairy (and in this case, goodbye Florges) as well as an offensive Dragon check. Azelf and Jirachi could also be rejoining the OU crew once more, so we lose a top threat (no more paraflinch!!) as well as a strong suicide lead. We could also be losing Raikou, which could open up more room for things like Jolteon and Heliolisk to see use, and one of them might be able to see more viability in UU. Starmie has a chance too (but it's not as likely as others), so -1 spinner. Diggersby and Crawdaunt could also move up but they're BL anyways so lol.

So overall, how do you think the next tier shift will shake things up for UU in the initial ORAS metagame? Will the losses be significant, and if so, in what way? Will any potential drops be useful in the tier?
 
Nah Hydreigon was pretty bad in XY OU, unless something changes I'm not sure if Hydra will be any better in ORAS OU lol.

Anyways, stepping away from the megas and tutor-buffed mons, I saw the recent usage stats today, and at this rate we could be getting Mandibuzz from OU in the next tier shift. This could give us a really neat addition to UU, as it could make an excellent bulky Defogger that can stallbreak, and it will also be one of the best Krookodile answers in the tier. Sylveon isn't likely but it could happen, and it could give us a nice Fairy (and in this case, goodbye Florges) as well as an offensive Dragon check. Azelf and Jirachi could also be rejoining the OU crew once more, so we lose a top threat (no more paraflinch!!) as well as a strong suicide lead. We could also be losing Raikou, which could open up more room for things like Jolteon and Heliolisk to see use, and one of them might be able to see more viability in UU. Starmie has a chance too (but it's not as likely as others), so -1 spinner. Diggersby and Crawdaunt could also move up but they're BL anyways so lol.

So overall, how do you think the next tier shift will shake things up for UU in the initial ORAS metagame? Will the losses be significant, and if so, in what way? Will any potential drops be useful in the tier?
Mandibuzz would be pretty cool being bulky. And immunity to powder moves (spore, etc.) I think itll be a top notch spinner/defogger in thd same vein as Forry (with little offensive pressure).

The only other thing i noticed that is starting to drop a bit is mamoswine, which is just above 4% cutoff. Maybe we could get the pig elephant in a few months?

Im pretty excoted for the game though. I think there may be a few more megas we havent seen yet tbh and i think there may be a few surprises in store.

What do you guys think about mega glalie though? Refrigerate boosted Explosionsvare good, but with defoggers and spinners everywhere in UU im not sure if glalie will see too much use since you could use Froslass for essentially the same job as spike stacker suicide lead without using your mega slot.
 
Actually, Mandibuzz carries Foul Play which gives it hell of offensive pressure.

Mega Glalie will operate differently than Froslass, so the two aren't exactly comparable. You can use Glalie as a suicide lead, but the fact of the matter is that you have Refrigerate Return, so immediately going for the boom isn't as good an idea on something like Azelf, or trying for the Destiny Bond on Froslass. Glalie is so powerful that you can justify the mega slot, and Glalie can come in more than once to slap your opponent's team around. It's also got the benefit of its suicide move being much more difficult to work around, especially since Ice has no immunities.
 
So like, only thing I can think of right now is that Mega Steelix is gonna be a defensive tank, though not quite as efficient as M-Aggron since no Filter so may not be AS common, and Mega Beedrill may creep its way into the depths of UU in eventuality. This is shaping up to give UU a good deal of Megas that can cause for a fun metagame.
UU is going to be my go to tier when ORAS comes out
 
Alright, I'll post my thoughts on some of these.

Mega Sableye; This thing seems annoying as fuck with a set of Calm Mind / Recover / Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam, as it can stay unevolved and get priority CM / Recover, and then mega evolve whenever it needs to to block status, phazing, basically anything thanks to Magic Bounce while boosting its defenses at the same time to make it a pain to kill, especially for more defensively oriented teams. It isn't exactly a slouch offensive either, as 85 in both Attack and Special Attack make it a threat when boosted. The loss of speed when Mega Evolving kinda sucks, but honestly, it'll only need it before it goes Mega.

Mega Swampert; This will pretty much be the best tank in the entire tier; extremely solid defensive stats of 100 / 110 / 110 backed up by a massive 150 Attack will make this thing a force to reckon with, and the Speed increase is pretty cool as well. Rain teams aren't really common in the current UU metagame, but when this thing gets implemented I can probably see them on the rise.

Mega Beedrill; This thing has fucking massive physical offense and Speed, 150 / 145 to be exact, and has the strongest U-turn in the entire game thanks to Adaptability. I can definitely see this thing being a pain in the ass for offensive teams, considering it outspeeds everything besides Mega Aero and Mega Alakazam if it's running a Jolly nature (although since its Speed is already so high I can see it running Adamant, like the aformentioned fast Megas), but I think it might not be /too/ much of a problem for defensive teams, thanks to the fact that they commonly run Mega Aggron, and Mega Steelix soon enough.
sableye: oh yeah definatley a trollish pokemon set up with prankster and mega evolve maybe set up a trick room to outspeed

Swampert: yeah defiantly so 150 attack and 140 speed in the rain, this will hit like a truck

Beedrill: easily one of my favorite megas to come out with a massive 145 speed the only thing that outspeeds is either a choice scarfer if you run jolly. swords dance, poison jab, Xscissor/u-turn and knock off/fell stinger cant wait. (PS im relativley new to competitive so if this sounds nooby sorry)
 
Beedrill: easily one of my favorite megas to come out with a massive 145 speed the only thing that outspeeds is either a choice scarfer if you run jolly. swords dance, poison jab, Xscissor/u-turn and knock off/fell stinger cant wait. (PS im relativley new to competitive so if this sounds nooby sorry)
I highly doubt that setting up a SD is viable, this thing is so weak that pretty much any priority is gonna rek this thing. However, volturning with something like Amphy could be an interesting prospect
 
I highly doubt that setting up a SD is viable, this thing is so weak that pretty much any priority is gonna rek this thing. However, volturning with something like Amphy could be an interesting prospect
Problem is though you can't Volturn with Beedrill and Amphy, as you can only have one mega on your team and their regular forms aren't viable. Beedrill is one hell of a glass cannon though, I really hope he doesn't get dragged up to OU as I absolutely love using Volturn in UU and it'd be nice to play around with a poke that hits as hard as him.
 
Well based on viability rankings, we'll be probably having the following mega-evos:
  • Swampert
  • Camerupt
  • Beedrill
  • Sharpedo
  • Medicham (?): idk I've heard people talking about how Mega-Gallade does Medicham's job much better or something along those lines :\
  • Glalie
  • Pidgeot
  • Steelix
  • Audino
And based on some other stuff, we might get these post ORAS:
  • Zapdos
  • Conkeldurr
  • Gothitelle (?)
  • Sylveon
  • Mandibuzz
I know the viability rankings are rather premature, so the prospects are going to change greatly over time.
 
Goth isn't dropping from OU anytime soon, if anything it only gets better in ORAS with a new well of sweepers to pair with

Also bare in mind that viability does not necessarily correlate to usage; I shouldn't have to point any further than Ambipom and Dusclops in BW UU or Ambipom/Claydol/Hitmonchan in XY RU but to give a relevant example out of your list Conkeldurr has consistently been listed as a B-/C+/C - level threat in OU but I don't think it's usage ever dipped lower than 6% even when it was at its worst in terms of viability.
 
Well based on viability rankings, we'll be probably having the following mega-evos:
  • Swampert
  • Camerupt
  • Beedrill
  • Sharpedo
  • Medicham (?): idk I've heard people talking about how Mega-Gallade does Medicham's job much better or something along those lines :\
  • Glalie
  • Pidgeot
  • Steelix
  • Audino
And based on some other stuff, we might get these post ORAS:
  • Zapdos
  • Conkeldurr
  • Gothitelle (?)
  • Sylveon
  • Mandibuzz
I know the viability rankings are rather premature, so the prospects are going to change greatly over time.
I'm sure more Megas than that will drop. I just had a count and even with some of the base forms OU anyway (Slowbro, Scizor, Chomp, T-tar, Lati@s and Gyarados) there's no way OU will be able to hold onto 22 Mega Evolutions (23 when counting both Charizard) with the way the usage statistics work + the one Mega per team. A lot of the Pokemon with Megas just aren't viable enough without the Mega Stone; they all won't be able to see enough use to push them up. It only has 11 (12 with both Charizard) in the current metagame.

(I hope what I said makes sense. I know what I'm trying to say, but whether I'm doing a good enough job is another story.)

edit: below, yeah, either UU is going to be a new Mega haven or BL will be getting larger. I know which one I think is more likely :P
 
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While I agree that all the megas can't stay OU by usage, the only one I realistically see staying in the tier if/when it drops is Manectric. We might get back base form Heracross and Gardevoir though, the latter of which may be interesting to see again.
 
While I agree that all the megas can't stay OU by usage, the only one I realistically see staying in the tier if/when it drops is Manectric. We might get back base form Heracross and Gardevoir though, the latter of which may be interesting to see again.
I dont see Manectric dropping anytime soon tbh. Its sitting at a pretty cozy 8.3% usage on the 1695 OU stats. If Talonflame were to get the boot, then you may see its niche dwindle and it could drop again.

But, Conk in UU would be hilarious IF it drops, but its still be pretty high in 5.5%. I think we are more likely to lose pokes than gain some. Jirachi and Azelf are rising, probably directly due to aegislashs ban. ORAS is definitely going to be different than Xy...

Lord of Bays my post before was saying that Forry has little offensive pressure compared to Mandibuzz which can do damage back (your post made it sound like i had backwards, but that couldve just been me) :-)
 
Goth isn't dropping from OU anytime soon, if anything it only gets better in ORAS with a new well of sweepers to pair with

Also bare in mind that viability does not necessarily correlate to usage; I shouldn't have to point any further than Ambipom and Dusclops in BW UU or Ambipom/Claydol/Hitmonchan in XY RU but to give a relevant example out of your list Conkeldurr has consistently been listed as a B-/C+/C - level threat in OU but I don't think it's usage ever dipped lower than 6% even when it was at its worst in terms of viability.
Good point, but I think MegaGross/MegaMence is going to drive that notion into the ground.
 
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