The Legend of Korra (Spoilers ITT)

Hulavuta

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Dunno if it's going to go the way verbatim said but I've thought Korra is going to be dead by the end of the season too.
 

Ace Emerald

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I'm wondering if Kuvira is a stronger metal bender than Suyin. Toph has broken it to us that her daughters aren't actually the best metalbenders. If I remember correctly, Kuvira took out all those bandits without bending earth at all (she even used metal to break a rock flying at her, instead of breaking/stopping it with earth bending). Suyin has relied on earthbending in most all her fights. Kuvira already thinks she's stronger than Suyin for stepping up and leading the Earth Kingdom, I wouldn't be surprised if that translates to bending strength and we see Kuvira take Suyin down 1v1.
 

verbatim

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I'm wondering if Kuvira is a stronger metal bender than Suyin. Toph has broken it to us that her daughters aren't actually the best metalbenders. If I remember correctly, Kuvira took out all those bandits without bending earth at all (she even used metal to break a rock flying at her, instead of breaking/stopping it with earth bending). Suyin has relied on earthbending in most all her fights. Kuvira already thinks she's stronger than Suyin for stepping up and leading the Earth Kingdom, I wouldn't be surprised if that translates to bending strength and we see Kuvira take Suyin down 1v1.

Toph is going to say that about everyone.

When it comes down to it, Suyin losing to Kuvira will probably be a case of a 30 year old fighting a 50 year old moreso than any intrinsic "who's better at deforming metal".


While I'm on my soapbox, being a better bender does NOT make someone a better fighter than someone else. Iroh's been shown to have better mastery over the finer aspects of firebending than Ozai (he invented lightning redirection), but as the show has shown he is in no way near as strong as Ozai.
 
So, just watched the new episode, battle of zaofu.
This post might constitute spoilers if you haven't seen it yet.

... anyway, these are my thoughts;

I'm not sure I like the new, peaceful korra. She should have entered the avatar state far sooner. Kuvira wasn't going to back down, and the fight wasn't going to end without a serious injury... so why not get it over with?
I'm starting to appreciate Varrick a lot more this season ^-^
I hate bataar jr.. Like a lot. Like a lot a lot.

A little disappointed we still haven't heard any more from mako and wu, but I'm sure that's coming next time.
And wow, that spirit bomb was badass.

Anybody else get an Azula-vibe from Kuvira that episode? Her let down hair and crazy aggressive attitude reminded me a little of crazy azula at the end of aang.
 
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verbatim

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Kuvira's been channeling Azula for a while now, turning away her friends and what not. Korra's resurgent Avatar State problems mean that she doesn't have an insta deus ex machina anymore, meaning that I could be slightly (slightly) dissuaded from my she'll let herself get killed solution. Anyways I'm interested in seeing where this goes next, specifically insofar as taking back Zaofu. We haven't seen general Iroh and co for a long time, it'd be cool to see a united assault in the near future.
 

Hulavuta

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Anybody else get an Azula-vibe from Kuvira that episode? Her let down hair and crazy aggressive attitude reminded me a little of crazy azula at the end of aang.
I honestly thought that, in that shot where she was facing down, when she looked back up at the "camera" she was going to be smiling evilly like Azula did when Aang when into the avatar state. Yeah you're not alone on this one. I feel kinda miffed that there was no big battle, just the duel, although the duel was awesomely choreographed, especially all of Kuvira's tricks. Reminded me of that scene in Troy actually, haha.

And is it just me or does Korra seem really lame now? I feel like she totally got Worfed, I seriously can't even remember the last time she won a fight, even before getting poisoned. Was it really as far back as season 2? Aang certainly won most of his at several years younger and with way less training. I feel like they need her to lose for the plot to progress whereas Aang did not have that problem as much, but it does have that unfortunate side effect.
 

verbatim

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Korra effectively knocked out everyone but Zaheer when she first went into the avatar state at the end of book three by herself while poisoned, and even then dealt the final blow to him (with a lot of help). Personally I'd have rather the fight been more even (avatar state Korra went two for two on air blast contacts to regular [and significantly more mobile] Korra's 0 in 10)


Also was it just me or did Meelo knock down a robot in one air blast?
 

SnoopingGil

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I really hate that the writers are making Kuvira blatantly villainous. She could have easily been the series' most morally ambiguous villain since it's clear she's far more competent than Wu and the Earth Kingdom actually does need a strong leader, but no, she just has to go full-on evil dictator. Wouldn't it be much more sensible to make peace with Zaofu and offer some kind of trade agreement to "distribute the wealth"? It shouldn't be too hard let Zaofu coexist with the Earth Empire, since the only way they'd cause any real trouble is if Su decided to declare war or something. Taking over the city by force makes Kuvira an easy target for criticism. (Su did kinda give her a good excuse to attack by trying to assasinate her, but that's just Su adding to the stupidity. :\ )

Also Korra said she'd try to talk sense into Kuvira but she just ended up saying "Can't let you do that, Star Kuvira" twice. Way to go, Avatar.

Hopefully we'll see some international intervention in upcoming episodes, now that everyone else has a good reason to attack the Earth Empire. I'm also looking forward to Hiroshi playing a larger role, since they couldn't have brought him back just so we could feel happy for Asami, right?... right?...
 
Also, poisoning via metal is not something light that you can recover from in a couple days after removing it all. Plus, she is simply out of practice, rusty, you might say.

And remember, the little spirit that led Korra to the swamp could see the Chained Korra Spectre, so there is something going on there too.

My guess? Just like Raava came back from inside Vaatu at the end of book 2, Vaatu is coming back from inside Raava, although at a slower pace because it's not Harmonic Convergence anymore.
 

shaian

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It was said quite a few times in the episode that Korra is rusty. A bit annoyed that she couldn't swallow her pride and admit she needed help against Kuvira, but that should have been expected.

Also Varrick and Huan should make a show together
 
It was said quite a few times in the episode that Korra is rusty. A bit annoyed that she couldn't swallow her pride and admit she needed help against Kuvira, but that should have been expected.

Also Varrick and Huan should make a show together
I don't think Korra had much of a problem against Kuvira when in the avatar state, it's just that she refused to enter it for some reason.
It's not as if she couldn't, and there was no way she was 'talking sense' into Kuvira.

Yes, Varrick and Huan should.
 

verbatim

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to be honest if Korra saw that her "evil self" in Kuvira, shouldn't she be even more eager to smash that rock down?
I almost want to say PTSD. I thought she was being portrayed as significantly more evil than rage avatar Aang ever was when she went into the avatar state at the end of season 3. When she went into the avatar state she saw that evil again and it freaked her back into reality. I'd wager that this fear is why she didn't want to go into the avatar state at the beginning of the fight.
 

Age of Kings

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I feel like they need her to lose for the plot to progress whereas Aang did not have that problem as much, but it does have that unfortunate side effect.
I do not understand this because Aang had lots of notable defeats. The fall of Ba Sing Se and Omashu, the Day of the Black Sun, and failing to prevent the genocide of his people, all of which were necessary to the story. He was wracked with guilt over all of these incidents and ran away on the eve of the final fight with Ozai because he was chickenpants about taking decisive action until the lion turtle deus ex machina. Pretty much all of book 2 and the first part of book 3 was Aang being thwarted by Azula or the Dai Li.

Korra isn't lame; she's been physically disabled for the past three years and she still has plenty of mental scars. Besides, it makes no sense for the villain to lose only halfway through the season. Korra losing is a character development device, especially since the fandom seems to prefer the humble, wise, and calculated Korra as opposed to the brash one of book 1. tbh I liked the "old" Korra better because she served as a foil to Aang and Roku and more like Kyoshi in taking decisive action for the good of the world. Korra's strengths were Aang's and Roku's greatest failures, and for this reason I'm not 100% on board with this new mopey PTSD Korra. Last time we saw that was her tough love session in book 3 recruiting new airbenders. I'm in the minority unfortunately.
 
Varrick created the spirit explosion by causing a chain reaction with the many spirit vines on the train as the result of his bomb, right?
Republic city is also full of spirit vines...

What could Kuvira be planning with that sort of weaponry?
 

Oglemi

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<Nexus> oglemi how did you find korra
<Oglemi> disappointing
<Oglemi> the fight scenes just aren't as good
<Oglemi> as they were in atla
<Nexus> :(
<Nexus> well the title of the episode was exaggerated but the fight wasn't that bad
<Oglemi> idk they made the bending just so focused
<Oglemi> instead of the grandeur
<Oglemi> like in the crystal cave fight
<Oglemi> or like anything with azula
<Oglemi> or like against bumi
<Oglemi> like why didn't korra whip out fucking tornadoes and shit, she had all the space in the world
<Oglemi> instead it's all just punching air and fire
<Nexus> well not like korra's in the best shape of her life rn
<Oglemi> nah the whole show
<Oglemi> has been like that
<Oglemi> the twins were about the only ones that have really harkened back to the atla style fighting
<Nexus> the two creepy ones from the northern water tribe?
<Oglemi> ya
<Oglemi> even like the lava bender guy wasn't all that impressive until the end
<Nexus> D:
<Nexus> also making a tornado isn't that easy
<Oglemi> aang did it to redirect a fucking mountain back at bumi
<Oglemi> it's not easy but i mean
<Oglemi> comon
<Nexus> yeah but he had to run around for a while
<Nexus> some how I doubt that was gonna work on kuvira
 

Hulavuta

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Age of Kings that's kind of exactly what I'm saying. I'm not really talking at all about moral struggles or military defeats, I'm talking just about fighting. Aang lost a few fights but he also won a bunch and was never really owned hard. We always had the sense he was really powerful even when he sometimes lost. Even before the whole PTSD thing, Korra lost a lot. She lost to the mecha to establish how strong they were (granted, it wasn't just her). She lost to Tarlokk's Full Moon-less bloodbending to establish how powerful that was, she got destroyed by that spirit in the beginning of season 2 (even with the Avatar state), the list goes on. She did beat Amon and Unalaq which was impressive but they're only a few drops of victory in a whole sea of defeats.

When I said Worfed, I was referring to The Worf Effect as described on TVTropes (yeah I am aware it is TVTropes...). Basically this is when a character is beat up to establish how significant a certain threat is. Unfortunately, Korra is often the target for this, and the repeated beatings kinda make her seem not so strong.

Now whether or not there is an important lesson to learn or important part of the plot that happens as a result of it is something else entirely.

Besides, it makes no sense for the villain to lose only halfway through the season.
This is what I meant when I said she had to lose for the plot to progress. I do agree that every time she lost it was important for the story for it to happen, but they have the unfortunate side effect of making her look totally weaksauce when it's not really balanced out by a significant number of victories or at least evenly matched fights. Which, as far as I know, was not really intended until this book and the PTSD storyline.
 

Hulavuta

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Goku didn't but that happened to pretty much everyone else in the show. There's a difference between a villain being more powerful than the heroes and having to be overcome, and a character getting beaten down so many times that they do not seem like a threat anymore at all. And I'm not even questioning why, because it's totally understandable in the story why she loses and why she had to lose, but it just has that unfortunate effect. It happened plenty before she was poisoned and had this PTSD too.
 

Crux

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yo guys naruto finished, you can always reread it though if you want dumb and fucked power levels and development. feng shen ji is pretty good too. but fuck off this is good writing i know you wouldn't know if it fisted you but pls even vF is happy with it.
 

v

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why do they need "clean energy"? what's cleaner than limitless lightning from firebenders? especially since they dont know if the vines will regenerate indefinitely. if anything they should breed an emotionless underclass of firebenders who can project lightning from birth and turn their corpses into soylent green to create a perfect and sustainable source of energy
 

verbatim

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Age of Kings that's kind of exactly what I'm saying. I'm not really talking at all about moral struggles or military defeats, I'm talking just about fighting. Aang lost a few fights but he also won a bunch and was never really owned hard.


Also, for the sake of argument, I'd postulate that Korra's defeat's come from by and large from having more difficult tasks. Aang didn't so much as beat the entire Fire Nation army as he did deus ex machina their leader one v one with the Avatar State. The Avatar State is such a hard thing to write since you need to create tension without breaking it on the account of the protagonist being able to kill anything and everyone. I personally like the way Korra handled this (a spiritual block in season one, fighting the only thing that could take the Avatar State one on one in season 2, the poison in season 3, and her PTSD in season 4) better than the way the Last Airbender did (Aang won seasons 1 and 3 with the Avatar State, and got taken out before he could use it in season 2).

(This pattern of a more mature approach to the Avatar State was why I originally postulated that she'd choose not to use it and let Kuvira kill her at the end of season 4, breaking her illusion as the benevolent leader, but now that it's been established that she is still very much suffering I'm beginning to have second thoughts.)
 

Hulavuta

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verbatim Your picture doesn't load but I'm guessing from the URL it's when Azula shot Aang when he was going into the avatar state at the end of Book 2. I don't really count that honestly, because it was a bit of a sucker punch shot, not really a full-fledged fight. It's not like Aang hadn't ever handled Azula before either, like on the drill, or in the ghost town.

But aside from pointing that out, I don't really want to continue this topic anymore because it looks like I am upsetting some people, so I'm sorry. I never called it bad writing or didn't understand why it had to happen, I was just pointing out something I noticed. The winner of a fight in this series is based way more on the circumstances rather than "power levels", which I am glad for. It's just a little heartbreaking for me to see the same character always be the chosen punching bag (even before she was supposed to be).
 

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