Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Goodra]

I'd like to nominate Rotom-W for A+. The shift in the meta has really helped make things even better for him being an answer to even more birdspam with MMence, burning the rise of more physical threats with the new megas and checking Sand Rush Excadrill which has also gotten more popular in this meta. I swear 9/10 teams run this guy now since he's that good!

 

[theV8man]

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Earthquake / Ice Punch
ability: Sand Stream
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe

I want to bring up Tyranitar's classic CB set. With the rise of dangerous Psychic types such as Mega Latias and Slowbro, this set truly shines nowadays. It gets plenty of switch-in opportunities cause of Tyranitar's insane bulk, which lets it survive pretty much any non-fighting attack, supereffective or not. Then there's CB Tyranitar's firepower, which lets it 2HKO so many walls (including Skarmory), with very little exceptions. Dark is just such a neat offensive type right now, and with its bulk and power, Tyranitar is a great abuser of this type. There's also the fact that Tyranitar is an ok check to most Mega Salamence variants. So yeah, I think Tyranitar should move.
Tyranitar A- => A
At this point, theres no denying that it's better than its Mega form which is in A-, as well as most other Pokemon in A-.

EDIT: There's also the fact that without Tyranitar, Sand Offense, which is rly good right now, wouldn't exist.

 

[Rosen]

both tyranitars need to drop. they get absolutely wrecked by almost all the new threats. mega altaria, metagross, sceptile, sableye, gallade, lopunny, even beedrill... the ttars just aren't nearly as effective. scarftar is still outsped by meg scept and bee, two huge threats to it, and mega ttar is having a very difficult time setting up. at least they can sort of check mence, to a point. ttar/mega ttar for B+

 

[Ajwf]

Okay, so first off:

Please raise chesnaught :) If you've read the stall/chesnaught thread recently, you know I'm slightly obsessed with what Chesnaught can do in ORAS. The simple addition of Drain Punch is making Chesnaught an absolute monster to deal with. It still takes the same threats as it used to, but it just now doesn't get worn down. What's really cool about chesnaught is his ability to perform multiple roles with one set. I'll just show off the set I've been using since I think it's better than the vanilla defensive set.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Leech Seed / Synthesis

This set speed creeps Jolly Azumarilly, then speed creeps 44 speed rotom-wash speed creeping azumarill. It OHKO's 96 bulk azumarill and has a 56% chance to Ohko 252 bulk azumarill. Rotom-wash missing 12% HP is OHKO'd. Look what it does to Mega Bro:

32+ Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Not exactly a bad calc, since you're also setting Spikes. And let's be honest: Spike setting is pretty powerful right now. But what's really neat about this set is you still wall all the mons you previously did: You now recover on all steel/rock/dark types, which means you can use wood hammer without fear of being warn down too easily. Even better, on any turn that you see a switch, you spam a spike or leech seed and get free passive damage on switches. It gives Chesnaught something to do when walling Landorus-T that still is around 60%+ HP. Seriously, to get an offensive tank, hazard setter and wall all in one is pretty awesome. I would go so far to push him at A-.

I know she's blacklisted but I want to ask this and be done with it : Can Florges now be a better option than Sylveon because of Synthesis (obviously not in a Wisher role) ? (Even though with GunkShot Greninja I'm not really sure if we'll see a lot of them in the beginning of ORAS)

It just found a way to be an inferior Clefable...

It still has a good chance of falling to Porygon 2 if it switches in during a DD or is sent in after one of your team mates falls. Lets not forget it can come in and copy it's intimidate ability.

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 292-348 (88.2 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

It also reeks terror whenever it traces Protean from Greninja.

Also, Porygon2 can take Beedrill-mega if you run Foul play. But yes, as a Mence killer, he's very efficient considering most Mence try to sub first turn, take that -1, and P2 just spams ice beam. If it stalls ice beam with some miracle and you have Foul Play, it still can't boost on you.

 

[MikeDawg]

I don't think that Ttar should drop. While it does have trouble versus many new mons, its strong pursuit mixed with its natural bulk gives it a nice edge.

This meta in particular highlights how fantastic trapping is in any capacity. Ttar has the ability to trap and eliminate Talonflame, Thundurus, and some other things that probably don't matter as much. These mons happen to be the most reliable means by which to halt a sweep through priority t-wave or priority brave bird.

The ability to pick out and eliminate a mon also makes the task of eliminating counters a lot easier. Once thundurus is gone, megabro has a much better time sweeping. Get rid of the latis and Keldeo can go to town.

While other pursuiters do exist, ttar has the typing, bulk, and power to be one of the best.

It seems more systematic to do it that way otherwise we'll be arguing over every single mon forever.

5 years from now, people will still be arguing over whether rotom-h should have been C or C- regardless.

 

[Dallaren]

I really think the Megas shouldn't just be edited into the XY tier list. Like its okay to make a separate ranking for just the ORAS megas but with the new megas the meta is definitely going to change. If the meta changes there will be a lot of viability tier shifts. I really think a new viability list should be created even if a whole array of mons arent added, the meta is definitely changing with just the addition of new movesets and ORAS megas. It seems more systematic to do it that way otherwise we'll be arguing over every single mon forever.

This system really doesnt make sense as I can see so many mons out of place, almost every mon is bound to get affected by ORAS in some way or the other.

 

[Pearl]

I have no clue on how well my judgement will be accepted in this thread, considering it's rare for me to post out of RU related stuff, but after playing and watching a considerable amount of ORAS OU games, I feel that Mega Glalie should be ranked higher than C, probably C+, and here's why: The role it fulfills is completely unique, and while it's nothing spectacular on the big picture, I feel that it's enough for it to at least on the upper end of the C ranks.

While it's not a Mega Salamence counter, it can pick it off thanks to Ice Shard, which is something only Mamoswine can do otherwise:

252 Atk Mega Glalie Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's also worth noting that Salamence is unable to set up on it, and if Glalie manages to evolve first, it Speed ties with regular Salamence.

Now, onto the interesting parts of Glalie. Ice is an excellent offensive typing, and Glalie actually has the stats to abuse it, as well as the ability, which gives it the ability to punish even some of the most common Ice-type resistances in OU as well. Here are some examples:

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 131-155 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 144-171 (41.7 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 90-106 (32 - 37.7%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 85-101 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- 87.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

While this doesn't look too spectacular, keep in mind that out of those Pokemon, only one usually carries a reliable recovery move (and even, its most efficient set in this metagame is the Swords Dance + 3 Attacks one), which means that they'll be heavily pressured to check the rest of Glalie's team. It's also worth noting that it has access to Spikes, and can use the switch ins it causes against the likes of Landorus, Gliscor, and Altaria in order to get some layers up, similarly to how Greninja does in the XY metagame (I suppose that people would rather run 4 Attacks Greninja in ORAS due to Gunk Shot).

Finally, there's also what everyone's hyped Glalie for. Refrigerate-boosted Explosion. After Glalie's no longer able to do anything else, it can fire off a 250 BP move boosted by both Refrigerate and STAB, nuking everything that dares to switch in, OHKOing behemoths like Ferrothorn and nuking even common bulkier resistances like Slowbro and Rotom-W.

What I'm trying to say with all of this is that while Glalie is probably not going to become a top threat anytime soon, its unique set of traits justifies its usage sometimes and, as a consequence, a higher ranking in this list as well.

 

[mertyville]

The gap between Latios and Mega Latios is a bit harsh.

Fair enough, Mega Latios is pretty much a Mega you just slap in if you can't fit any other mega into your team, however, unlike the former Mega Latios can actually check Ttar, Specially Defensive Heatran, no life orb recoil and is actually less weak to Knock Off.

At worst it should be A since it is pretty much a slidly less powerful Latios but thanks to its bulk and no life orb reliance, it is more difficult to wear down.

 

[Gloating]

Nominating Mega Charizard X to A-. Not very effective right now with Mega Slowbro, Mega Altaria, Mega Sceptile and SR giving it a hard time. Old threats like Landorus-T and sand offense are also as common as ever. Will comment on others later.

 

[Clone]

Can I see Megagross in S rank?

I mean, this thing is a monster. He's got the speed, typing, bulk, and movepool to pull off the role as a fast wall breaker that is able to sweep entire teams once a few mons have been eliminated, three of which die when Magnezone traps them (who also needs to be A+ ASAP). I realize that this ranking will probably be controversial, but Megagross is really insane right now. Not Mence insane, but insane nonetheless. He has very few solid counters in the meta, with the best ones being Slowbro, Cresselia, Skarmory, Mega Sableye (kinda), PhysDef Mega Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Three of these are trapped by Mag. Sableye has to hit a prankster will o wisp if he wants a chance at walling the supercomputer. That leaves Slowbro and Cresselia. The former can be killed by Grass Knot, even with an Adamant nature, while the latter isn't hard to wear down with pressure from teammates.

Additionally, he's able to switch into attacks before he megas unlike many others. His excellent typing and pre mega bulk allow him to take on the latis, as well as every fairy out there. On top of this, Intimidate doesn't bother him the turn he megas because he has clear body. Add in the fact that he keeps up with the new meta thanks to his base 110 speed, he has no problem taking on slightly slower things like Terrakion, Keldeo, Garchomp (w/ ice punch), and all those poor base 100 speed and below mons. On top of this, he's not even lacking in the power department. As we all know, tough claws is a great ability. Just look at Zard x and aero for reference. Both of Megagross's STABs are boosted by it, as well as many of his coverage moves. Backed by a base 150 attack and relatively high BP STABs, and he 2HKOes pretty much every relevant mon in OU bar the aforementioned mons above.

This doesn't even take into account his severely underrated bulk. 80 / 150 / 110 bulk is nothing to scoff at. He can take literally any non boosted SE attack in the game afaik. Even SE hits fail to kill him. Defensive Lando T only 2HKO es with EQ, for example, and not even intimidate helps because clear body can prevent that if gross hasn't megad yet. Even Bisharps Knock Off doesn't OHKO (idr if sucker does tho :/), thanks to taking reduced damage from it. Yeah, he's easily worn down, but bar burns from scald or excessive layers of spikes on the ground, Megagross has ample switch in opportunities in this meta.

All in all, Megagross has all the right tools to be a defining force in the meta. Bulk, speed, power, a free LO to contact moves, high BP STABs and coverage, and excellent typing leave him as a meta defining force in ORAS. He's easily on par with current as ranks like Zard X and Keldeo, and fits on any team bar stall. All of these traits should be reflected in his ranking and S rank fits him perfectly.

Other things I agree with:
Gallade -> S
Latios -> A+
Megabro -> A+
Mega Latias -> A+
Mega Latios -> A/A-
Sableye -> A
Altaria -> A+

 

[TheEnder]

| A → A+ |
Ok, seeing as how Mega Salamence is such a huge presence now before it is banned, and with Rotom-W being one pof the better answers to it, I feel like it is deserving of a rise. SD Talonflame, Excadrill, and Landorus-T are still huge threats in the ORAS metagame, thus keeping Rotom-W as a great glue for balanced teams. With investment in Special Attack, it breakes most variants of Salamence's Substitutes with Volt Switch, and Rotom-W also has the option to run Hidden Power Ice, which makes it an even better answer to the one biggest threat out there. The momentum Volt Switch provoides is also very valuable for offensive threats like Mega Gallade and Mega Beedrill, as it draws in Lati@s, and bulky Pokemon like Mega Venusaur and Clefable.

| B- → B+ |
One of the more viable answers to Greninja out there. While there aren't many things stopping Greninja, now that it gained Gunk Shot as another tool in its arsenal, Empoleon stands out as a great answer, as it basically counters every variant of Greninja (bar the uncommon physical version with Low Kick). Empoleon is also one of the better answers to Mega Latias and Mega Altaria, as it resists their STABs and can phaze them out with Roar. All in all, it is a great Pokemon on balance and bulky offense, capable of checking some of the biggest threats in the metagame, while also being able to provoide great utility in form of SR and Defog.

| B → A- |
Mega Beedrill is one of the huge forces on offensive teams, I don't know why it was ranked so low? With dual STAB and Drill Run, it basically has all it needs in terms of coverage, in order to be a successful offensive pivot. Like Albacore said, it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame after mega evolving, bar Timid Mega Alakazam and Jolly Mega Aerodactyl. This is a pretty huge feat, and mega evolving isn't even that hard, as the coverage it gains from the three moves I mentioned allows it to run Protect. Its U-turn is a major pain for offensive teams, as it not only is very hard to switch into, but also gains a lot of momentum. It also kind of forces Skarmory and Ferrothorn to run Shed shell, becuase when paried with Magnezone, there aren't a lot of Pokemon that takes it on on balanced teams either. All in all, I think it is deserving of a significant rise.

 

[alexwolf]

I really think the Megas shouldn't just be edited into the XY tier list. Like its okay to make a separate ranking for just the ORAS megas but with the new megas the meta is definitely going to change. If the meta changes there will be a lot of viability tier shifts. I really think a new viability list should be created even if a whole array of mons arent added, the meta is definitely changing with just the addition of new movesets and ORAS megas. It seems more systematic to do it that way otherwise we'll be arguing over every single mon forever.

This system really doesnt make sense as I can see so many mons out of place, almost every mon is bound to get affected by ORAS in some way or the other.

Or, you know, we can just move every Pokemon whose viability was changed, instead of starting from scratch for no reason. Things will be chaotic for a while no doubt, but after a few weeks the list will start getting much better. So, for now, just post about changes you want to see happen and don't concern yourself with how the lists looks.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I haven't played that much ORAS OU yet, although Suicune could be lowered a few ranks because it now has to compete with mega Slowbro for a bulky Water-type, as Mega Slowbro has a lovely Fighting resist and infinitely more physical bulk. Mega Slowbro also has more initial power than Suicune does, so I think Cune should drop some sadly. Mega Slowbro also is superior to Suicune in the sense that it can never get critted so it's as a result much harder to stop.

I think Mega Metagross should be S Rank. It's extremely bulky and it also hits like a truck. Tough Claws Meteor Mash hurts, like a lot, and Mega Metagross makes use of good power and Speed to be an awesome sweeper. Tough Claws gives an essential LO boost recoil free to Ice Punch, Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, and many other moves in Metagross's arsenal, and Mega Metagross can just smash things while its impressive defensive typing and bulk allow it to take hits superbly, and it can even use Agility to set up and sweep. It can run Grass Knot to muscle through Water-types such as Mega Slowbro (and this is boosted by Tough Claws!!!), and in general this thing is a fantastic wallbreaker. It also resists Returns from Mega Salamence and can take on Mega Gardevoir, Mega Altaria, and Mega Sceptile pretty decently. I want to see this thing in S Rank because it's just so good, being powerful, bulky, and fast all in just one Pokemon.

I will post more once I play more.

 

[Alfalfa]

alexwolf Does Mega Steelix actually have a niche in OU, or is it there in D Rank because we need more time to see if it even has a niche?

 

[Sucker Lunch]

;_; My baybeh gotta drop.

Mega Pinsir for A/A- rank? With Mega Salamence being a thing I don't see Mega Pinsir doing much. The only thing Mega Pinsir really has over mence is that it can actually OHKO Tyranitar unboosted.

I believe that until Mega Mence is banned Pinsir needs to drop to maybe A-. His priority QA decimates many of the new megas (doing around 75 - 80% on most of them) and pinsir still is strong. However, flying-type priority (along with the ability to One-Shot T-Tar) is the main thing he has over God Lizard which heavily outclasses him. I feel like Pinsir is more than a B-rank mon though. B+/A- should be his new position until Mence is gone. Enjoy your uber toy for a few more weeks ;_;.

Also thanks for the shoutout Albacore! ^__^

 

[hobreezy]

Okay well I've seen a lot of people want Mega Latios to move up and I strongly disagree. While I do not believe that Mega Latios isnt bad (it's probably as effective as regular latios), I think it is just not worth using a mega slot on. Megas have become so important that into the metagame that using one where another nonmega mon could perform the same is pointless. To a lesser extreme, it's the same reasoning for not using mega Audino. Mega Audino could be an effective mixed wall but there's absolutley no reason to use it over pokes like chansey and clefable. So unless there's a reason other than no LO damage, Mega Latios should remain in the B's.

 

[Omfuga]

I think Land-t should be S rank. Walls a ton of shit, sets up rocks, and potentially the best scarfer in the tier. It's great on offensive teams for checking threats like Zard X without running a dedicated wall to do so. I don't play OU too often but I'm just posting to spark discussion I guess..

 

[AM]

Ranking team can take or leave whatever suggestions are here in the hide box. There's going to be a bunch of new messages popping up while I write this so I'll probably end up just repeating something else.

Mega Placements and some others

B > B+ TheEnder suggested this to be A- but I think that's too high. You look at all the positives that TheEnder pointed out but then come to the realization that M-Beedrill has the most pitiful of defenses, an SR weakness that complicates its main usage on voltturn cores, and is prone to the majority of priority users in the tier. It can't switch into hits well barring x4 resists, it needs things like Skarmory and M-Gross out of the picture to succeed, and needs a team revolved around it to do well in most cases. TheEnder pointed out all the positive traits of M-Beedrill which would justify my suggested placement of B+ cause granted it hits wicked hard and there's a lot in the meta that doesn't want to be taking Adaptability boosted attacks by M-Beedrill. The fact that you do have to take into account all these negatives in a meta where priority is relevant and hazard stacking is a normal thing in the tier leaves me keeping this in the B/B+ range.

A > A+ This was already touched upon but I want to point out that M-Slowbro is one of the best defensive answers to things like physical variants of M-Salamence and puts a constraint on teambuilding to where you need to have a legitimate answer for this in order to not be walled. M-Slowbro walls a very significant portion of the meta and as such is a very solid choice for semi-stall and stall teams, along with balanced defensive cores. Crobro, 3 attacks + Slack Off with multiple variations of this set are all good and thrive well in the teams that these sets would occupy. Answers to M-Slowbro do not enjoy switching into Scald or any attacks coming off of a 130 sp atk with Scald having the potential to burn and cripple your answer to it. Definitely an A+ rank mon more than an A rank mon.

B- > B M-Sharpedos Crunch is extremely powerful. It 2HKOs mons such as Rotom-W and Quagsire easily and has a variety of tools to help it clean up or put dents in teams due to the nature of Strong Jaw and movepool. M-Sharpedo is a solid option for hazard stacking offense, teams with voltturn cores, and has good synergy with teammates such as but not limited to Lando-I, Raikou, Thundurus, Jirachi, Scolipede, the Latis, and so on. Speed Boost prior to mega evolution can allow it to clean up mid or late game with relative ease and mitigates the issue with Offense due to said boosts. Realistically nothing is able to switch into M-Sharpedo on a consistent basis and this includes even defensive answers such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn in the fear of running into mixed sets. Has issues with priority, still somewhat frail, and not the best of typings but definitely has enough viability to warrant its use as a B rank threat due to strength and diversity.

D > C/C+ At this point D is way too low. Dugtrio has fantastic synergy with many of the new megas such as M-Pidgeot, M-Latias, M-Salamence, M-Metagross, etc. It's ability to trap key threats to some higher ranked mons allows the player to have switch advantage on grounded threats such as Chansey, Clefable, Chesnaught, Klefki, etc. This switch advantage allows players to break down cores much more efficiently and as such has found its way on many teams that appreciate this support such as the plethora of set up sweepers in the tier. It has options to revenge kill weakened threats due to its solid speed tier and Sucker Punch, has access to Memento to make a partners sweep more efficient, and overall is a very solid option in the ORAS meta. C/C+ is where this should be.

It's kind of hectic so that's all I can initially speak on now until other suggestions are made.

 

[Rosen]

also, i feel thundy should get the bump back up to s. this thing is amazing on offense at the moment, and is one of the few things keeping dd mega altaria/mence from clean sweeping many of my ho teams.

 

[Sgt. Stardust]

I agree with moving Zard X down. The only thing it does better than M-Mence is the support set and I don't think that's enough to justify keeping it in S. Theres too much opportunity cost now.

 

[Ptyra]

Suicune should move down, it is completely ouclassed by Mega Slowbro.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Or, you know, we can just move every Pokemon whose viability was changed, instead of starting from scratch for no reason. Things will be chaotic for a while no doubt, but after a few weeks the list will start getting much better. So, for now, just post about changes you want to see happen and don't concern yourself with how the lists looks.

You could at least take some pokemon off the conclusion reached and blacklist, mega charizard x has much more mega slot competition now, keldeo gets wrecked by megamence, florges got synthesis, etc.

 

[Josh Morales]

Hydreigon definitely deserves to rise up in the ranks in this metagame. Sure, it doesn't like the speed creep nor fairies, but it's an incredible wallbreaker for Mega Metagross, a top-tier mon, and the ubiquity of psychics really helps increase its offensive prowess in the eyes of the opponent. The LO 3 attacks set nukes the shit out of so many things, the Scarfed set revenge kills or gains U-turn momentum on a very surprisingly large amount of things in this metagame, and the Ebelt 4 attacks lure set is great as well. Pretty much the only mons safe from that 4 attacks lure set are fairies, which having MMeta of your team allows you to not give a rat's ass about them. I'm honestly thinking C+/B-

 

[Alfalfa]

Suicune should move down, it is completely ouclassed by Mega Slowbro.

I do not have experience with either or them, but I should say that Suicune is not completely outclassed by Mega Slowbro. Suicune has the advantage of not taking a Mega Slot, which gives you more flexibility in team building. Furthermore, Suicune has access to Leftovers recovery, as well as access to Pressure, the former of which gives needed gradual recovery, and the latter being able to PP stall opponents. Pressure may not seem like much, but being able to PP stall Chansey's Seismic Toss or something like that is actually quite useful. Could Suicune move down? It is possible. It is completely outclassed by Mega Slowbro? It might be outclassed, but to say it is completely outclassed is an overstatement.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

->C+/B-

alright, i know this is a drastic change, but i feel like hydreigon fits perfectly in this meta. here's the set i'm basing this nomination on:

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

this set is capable of revenge killing lopunny, beedrill, sceptile, metagross, slowbro, aerodactyl, manectric, greninja, scizor, etc you get the idea, it revenge kills threats to common offensive teams. next, it has great synergy with metagross(every weakness between them except fighting is covered) and it can work with either the mixed wallbreaker set(i'm probably the only one using it, but i'm keeping it secret for reasons :)) or the agility set. and of course, there's the LO and EB set to be worried about when dealing with hydreigon. so yeah, C+/B- for muh hydra