Resource XY RU Tier List (RU Viability Ranking itt)

[The Quasar]

Yup, I agree w/ Spirit on this. The Quasar "powerful" doesn't really mean all that much if every team is prepared for Doublade (in which every team is). Sorry for the one-liner, but I have to go and will write more when I get back :^)

First of all, I think statistics are usually important. And these are our stats about september's RU 1760

| 1 | Doublade | 31.57351% | 31632 | 14.330% | 26568 | 14.791% |
| 2 | Meloetta | 27.00047% | 27556 | 12.483% | 21613 | 12.032% |

So it's common every team is ready to engage Doublade and Meloetta, of course. Their usage rank shows how much we evaluate their "powerful". Now, we are talking about to drop them to A+ instead of S and I think (but it's what I think about) it could be a mistake.

About Doublade I say again the same: with a great multitype like ghost/steel and despite it has only a set and it's not so speed, it's destructive and switch in when it's on field, is problematic; it's not so difficult to boost attack and its resistence does everything else. Some calcs (with other top usages):

252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hitmonlee: 211-249 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hitmonlee: 106-126 (43.9 - 52.2%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 135-161 (43.2 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 118-141 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 60-72 (18 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 84-98 (26.9 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 178-211 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 102-121 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Iron Head vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 48-57 (15.3 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 258-305 (91.8 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 166-198 (53.2 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 253-298 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior: 42-51 (9.9 - 12%) -- possibly the worst move ever
44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 152-182 (48.7 - 58.3%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 270-320 (68.7 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 156-186 (39.6 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 258-304 (82.6 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Slowking: 246-290 (62.5 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Slowking: 140-168 (35.6 - 42.7%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowking Scald vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 102-120 (32.6 - 38.4%) -- 98.1% chance to 3HKO

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 255-300 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 127-151 (29.3 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 42-49 (13.4 - 15.7%) -- possible 7HKO

I'll bet the same cent. If we would only a S ranking pokemon, that's good for me. Otherwise Doublade and Meloetta (here not described) drops could be not correct.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Usage means nothing to viability, and calcs should only be used for relevance when discussing potential sets.
We know that Doublase is strong. We know it can sweep.

But it doesn't do it as reliably anymore, due to mentioned overpreparation.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Usage means nothing to viability, and calcs should only be used for relevance when discussing potential sets.
We know that Doublase is strong. We know it can sweep.

But it doesn't do it as reliably anymore, due to mentioned overpreparation.

Beat me to it. I agree with everything Kawaii Kyouko said.

To be fair, Doublade was truly amazing when it was introduced to the RU meta, but now (repeating just to get the point across) people are completely prepared to face it in battle and its effectiveness has been reduced to the point when it just might not be S-Rank worthy anymore.

 

[The Quasar]

Usage means nothing to viability, and calcs should only be used for relevance when discussing potential sets.
We know that Doublase is strong. We know it can sweep.

But it doesn't do it as reliably anymore, due to mentioned overpreparation.

Usage is not viability. But you play with best mons, everywhere. Overpreparation don't change how much strong are these pokemons. You have to be overpreparated because otherwise you lost.

I just told that. If you want only a pokemon in S-rank it's good for me. But Doublade and Meleotta are better than each pokemon actually in A+ rank. Perphaps only Delphox could be near them imo.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Usage is not viability. But you play with best mons, everywhere. Overpreparation don't change how much strong are these pokemons. You have to be overpreparated because otherwise you lost.

I just told that. If you want only a pokemon in S-rank it's good for me. But Doublade and Meleotta are better than each pokemon actually in A+ rank. Perphaps only Delphox could be near them imo.

Overpreparation doesn't change their personal strength, it changes their strength in the metagame. And that's what viability is. And considering how many of the current physical attackers has a way of getting around Doublade these days, or how it struggles to stay healthy so that it can continue to check opposing mons puts it out of favor

That being said, I only find Doublade an A+ mon and not Meloetta.


I personally dislike Delphox. Don't find it an A+ at all. But I'm not gonna argue why, cuz someone did ans I agree wiyh whatever it was they said.

I also still find Cobalion an S rank mon, dud to his versatility and success with the sets (support, sd, magnet-sd, cm lure) coupled with great speed and good bulk, as well as being the perfect teammate for Accelgor/Qwilfish hyper offense, being one of the mainmen in bulky offense and what-not. But yeah.

Supporting Chillwind Yeti Mega Abomb for S rank too.

 

[Meru]

Just stopping by to say yes to Mega Abomasnow for A+ rank. It saw endless amount of high-level play in Slam, and will continue to see usage even into SPL, as its two sets are radically different enough to distinguish certain checks/counters. You can switch Weezing into SD Abomasnow only to get OHKO'd by Blizzard. Nothing can continue to switch into it all game long, as nothing wants to continually take Ice/Grass/Ground coverage except Bronzong (which is the main reason that thing is even ranked as high as it is). On top of that, it has hail to wear down its own counters. The only thing that troubles me is that Fletchinder is a hard stop to any set, who is also rising in popularity. Also...

while there's no problem moving steelix up (i like it a lot too, it's a really under-appreciated mon that works well even in balanced teams), registeel should stay where it is. it's probably one of the closest things in A- from moving up I'd say. while it's defensive core is only a B rank at best, offering as much as the lower ranked steel-types, its curse set is an easy A rank as a counterpart, providing an even more solid counter to anything it's supposed to counter already (while being nearly impossible for dugtrio to trap if you play it cleverly), but having more self-sufficiency and being one of the best win conditions available for a stall team. Hot N Cold and Spirit have both used it for great effectiveness, with the former sort of being the pioneer for it.

I've been running Curse Registeel since the Sableye meta 0_o

 

[Molk]

Hey guys, the RU Council has a list of changes that'll probably be implemented in the next few days as the final update to this thread before the start of ORAS (ORAS viability rankings will almost definitely be taking place in a new thread btw). Before that though, i just wanted to bring up some more of the major changes that might be implemented to get everyone's thoughts on them! List below

Some of the changes that are being considered at the moment include

Gligar up to A+ rank (one of the most common Pokemon in the tier, arguably the best user of Defog, reliably walls a very solid portion of the metagame, and can fit on all kinds of playstyles)
Delphox down to A or A- rank (A- is a new development, Delphox really really hates the rising popularity of Pursuit users such as Spiritomb and Skuntank, has to compete with Moltres quite a bit, and has a problem with getting worn down very quickly)
Skuntank up to B+ rank (It's a very solid Defog Pokemon, and it's one of the best Pursuit users/general checks to Psychic-types RU's got, really solid choice imo).
Archeops up to B- rank (you might wanna read Pearl.'s post from earlier in the thread if you want some more information on this, it's a pretty solid suicide lead from what i can tell, but I don't have any personal opinions on this one tbh).
Fletchinder up to A rank (amazing revenge killer and cleaner with priority Acrobatics, can cripple almost every single common Flying-type resist with Will-O-Wisp, has surprisingly good longevity thanks to priority Roost+Wisp, and sets up on some common Pokemon quite easily. It's a really threatening mon tbh.)
Torterra up to C+ rank (All around solid Pokemon, great stats all around, unique typing that gives it an immunity to Electric-type moves and a resistance to Edgequake, Rock Polish is a pretty good cleaner, and it can set up Stealth Rock quite reliably).
Mesprit up to either B- rank or B rank (Outstanding stats all around, Stealth Rock+Healing Wish+more than enough coverage to mess with most Rapid Spin/Defog users gives it a solid niche on offensive teams, unique enough to avoid competition).

So, anyone have thoughts on these?

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Okay...I guess I'll give in some input here.

Gligar to A+: Yes, it's a great Pokemon. Huge physical bulk, Stealth Rock, Defog, this thing is just a quality Pokemon. It is the best Defog user in the tier, and besides that, it just walls a ton of Pokemon like Hitmonlee, and many others thanks to its stupid bulk, and even without Eviolite its bulk is still quite decent. Almost every physical attacker in the tier is walled by this Pokemon and it can get a ton of switch-in opportunities to remove hazards or just wall, or even gain momentum with U-turn. All in all just a fantastic universally useful Pokemon and deserves A+ imo.

Delphox to A: Okay...I guess so. It is kinda really easy to wear down and being very susceptible to priority is really bad right now, and in general it's kind of frail. Its Speed is also decent but not that good. A would be okay for it I guess.

Skuntank to B+: I've been a strong advocate for this mon for a while now so I agree with this. It's a great balanced Defogger that has defensive utility and also has a good offensive presence as well as Dark moves to mess with Psychic-types. With Sucker Punch and Pursuit it's a very good utility threat and it also works wonders with Moltres, one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier, while it can check threats such as Slowking, Reuniclus, Spiritomb, Delphox, etc.

Archeops to B-: No comment

Fletchinder to A: Oh heck yeah, Fletchinder is simply a boss. It can sweep with just priority Acrobatics alone, and at +2 this thing is an almost unstoppable sweeper that is very tough to revenge kill. Will-O-Wisp and Roost give it decent longevity and cripple its counters which gives Fletch a lot of early-mid game utility, plus its role as a revenge killer is clutch stuff too. It's also a magnificent win condition, and its typing, while giving it a horrible SR weakness, is actually not shabby defensively.

Torterra to C+: I haven't used it but it looks decent on paper.

Mesprit to B-/B: Yes, it's actually a very good Pokemon and also very unique. It's the best offensive Healing Wish user in the tier and also a Psychic-type with SR, there's Uxie but it's a worse mon than Mesprit overall (and more outclassed), being an offensive Rocks user is just excellent for any offensive team. It also screws with every hazard remover except Skuntank with just Psychic+Ice Beam (Shiftry is shaky but it can't switch into Ice Beam), the Scarf set is also neat as a revenge killer with nice coverage and a fast Healing Wish. All in all a very good mon for any offensive team and a great niche in the tier so it could move up, I want to see it in B because its niche is just that good, although if it winds up in B- instead I wouldn't be too bothered.

Just some thoughts on some of the proposals.

 

[tutterydiglett]

burds [:

Gligar ScraftyIsTheBest covered this pretty well but my thoughts anyway: to be honest I'm pretty surprised as to why this thing isn't A+ yet. It has phenomenal physical bulk and basically walls every single relevant physical attacker in the metagame as of now (bar sneasel). It also has access to Defog, Stealth Rock, and Knock Off, arguably three of the best moves in the whole game. U-Turn can gain momentum and EQ is actually a decent STAB that can annoy mons like Cobalion and makes Gligar not complete Taunt bait. To top it all off, Gligar also gets great recovery in the form of Roost, making it pretty hard to take down.

Fletchinder: Not much to say but okay yeah this thing really, REALLY needs to move up. Priority Acrobatics, Roost, SD, immunity to Will-o-Wisp, and ACCESS to Will-o-Wisp? yes please. Acrobatics is really fucking strong and at +2 it pretty much runs through the tier. Priority Roost is also really neat and Will-o-Wisp can cripple attackers that would otherwise beat the bird. It does have some pretty hard counters (Rhyperior to name one) and weakness to SR does hinder its performance somewhat, but overall it's a really powerful 'mon and is worth moving up a rank.

 

[Pearl]

Most of the suggested changes are pretty straightforward and reflective of the tier's current state, with Gligar and Fletchinder being as strong as ever thanks to their already mentioned traits, Skuntank as one of the best utility Pokemon right now, as well as the most solid Moltres partner, Delphox's usage massively decreasing due to many different factors, including competition from Moltres, the popularity of Spiritomb as a Pursuit trapper and even Dugtrio as a solid revenge killer and so on.

Then there are the rising stars: Torterra, whose unique typing (which includes an Electric-type immunity), decent damage, Rock Polish, or even utility through Stealth Rock are extremely valuable in some teams. Archeops' ability to serve as a soft Moltres heck on Hyper Offense and unique traits as a Stealth Rock setter is also pretty amazing. Last, and definitely the most important change of those mentioned: Mesprit's sudden increase in popularity. It is, again, one of the ways Hyper Offense found to play around the sheer amount of revenge killers and walls they need to play around. It's a really solid Stealth Rock setter, completely destroying Gligar and Shiftry if they try to Defog. It doesn't really win against Skuntank, but the later's match up against offense isn't that good to start with, since it usually fails to keep up with the offensive pressure. Mesprit also has an outstanding 80/105/105 bulk, a decent Speed tier and an above-average damage output too. However, what really allows Mesprit to shine when comparison to the rest of the competition is its access to Healing Wish, making the game a 7 vs 6 when used correctly, and putting ridiculous amounts of pressure on opposing teams in general.

With that said, here are some more important changes I forgot to bring up to Molk when he asked me about them:

• Cresselia up to A+: Solid win condition, separating itself from Reuniclus due to Moonblast (which absolutely shits on Spiritomb and some other common Psychic-type checks) and much higher bulk. Can also run solid supportive sets with Lunar Dance, but those are generally done better by Mesprit, unless you're desperately looking for a Moltres check.
• Drapion and Spiritomb both up to A: Both two really strong Dark-type Pokemon who fit into a huge amount of teams due to their traits as Psychic-type counters and Pursuit trappers. The former also has a deadly Swords Dance set and can bring Toxic Spikes support if required. The later is also a decent Fighting-type check and CroTomb is a really underrated set as well.
• Magneton up to A-: One of the best wallbreakers in the tier, slicing through a big amount of Pokemon with its STAB moves alone, thanks to the boosts provided by both Choice Specs and Analytic. It also has a solid Eviolite set, using its neat set of resistances while keeping some of its high damage.
• Kabutops up to B+: Its role right now is quite different from what it used to be, but it's a really important one: It's one of the most solid soft checks to Moltres on offensive teams, while also providing utility through Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and Aqua Jet's priority. A really good Pokemon that I recommend people to try if they're tired of Slowking and defensive Rock-types.
• A lot of niche Pokemon being added to the lower rankings: Including Hippopotas, Stoutland, Pawniard and Regular Abomasnow. Also thinking about adding Prinplup just because of how unique it its. Lord Omfuga, speak up if you want it added.

Feel free to discuss those! :]

 

[g]

to A+
I was thinking about making this nomination yesterday so i definitely agree with this. Gligar is a staple on almost all kinds of balanced teams and it also fits well in offensive Volturn teams that appreciate its ability to slowly pivot AND RELIABLY remove entry hazards.
It is arguably the best partner for Moltres and is really easy to fix its weaknesses with the use of other very good Pokemon like Slowking or Lanturn so it deserves to move up

to A
Gives a tremendous amount of support in one slot and it has the tool to cripple its counters meaning that at worst Rhyperior is annoyed. It can sweep a lot of teams very easily, particularly if they rely only on Gligar to take hits. Murders offense even without boost after a bit of damage. The only argument i can see against this is the increasing popularity Magneton is getting but it shouldnt be important while talking about such an useful Pokemon.

to A-
Quite a no brainer as what Molk said is more than enough. HUGE competion from Moltres and loses to common Pokemon such as Spiritomb and Skuntank

to B-/B
Liking all the love Mesprit is getting. Offensive rocker that beats Gligar and Healing Wish supports a lot of mons very very well.

Not much to say about Skuntank as i have already posted about it here previously and point still holds. Havent use Torterra yet n_n

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Victreebel for C-/C

Victreebel is by far one of the scariest weather sweeper that you could use in RU, and Sun can be very effective in the RU Meta.
Its access to strong Poison/Grass/Fire allows him to 2HKO or even OHKO a large amount of threats w/out much trouble, it can even turn some bad situations in its advantage with his access to Sleep Powder and Encore ( Not all of these bad situations, huh, but still )
If used with Growth, Victreebel can beat stall w/out much trouble, let me explain how and why.
If your opponent tend to switch on Mola, which is on almost any team, you can switch to Victree w/out much trouble and set up on it while it switches.
After that, you're basically KOing all special walls of Stall, appart from the very rare Lickilicky & Munchlax.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Sun: 419-494 (115.1 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

( I won't show the calcs against Slowking & Aroma because these are obvious KOs )

Overall, Victreebel is pretty damn great, even if it relies on Sun.

Fletchinder stays in A-

To me, it's just not fitting to A. Sure it has Strong Prio and some pokemons are huge setup fodder for it, but to me, Fletchinder just requires too much support to fit in A Rank, you kinda need a Defogger/Spinner at first, then you have to get off all Rock Types & Magneton that your opponent could use, you may even need to get off some annoying bulky special attackers with the coverage to hit you ( Eelektross for example ) , even with Roost, since Fletch's defense aren't the best, and it's atk isn't the best, meaning you may not OHKO these threats at +2 or even +4 for the bulkiest.

 

[Holiday]

Hello! I'm semi new to RU, but I learn fast. I've played a few games in the Toxicroak legal meta, and dropped off of Yanoark. Anyways, Intro post aside, my opinion (for what it's worth) on dropping Doublade.

I am FOR a Doublade drop to A+. Let's look at an OU Pokemon that did what Doublade does, sweep. That Pokemon is Landorus I. Both Pokemon are known for solid bulk, a boosting move, and the ability to ravage teams at a moment's notice. Both have also held S rank in their respective tiers. Why did Landorus drop? Is it because people found out it sucked? No. It's because people found out what it can't get passed and slapped some of them on their team. The same thing is happening to Doublade. It's not that it is getting worse, but simply the meta is furthering itself from the meta where it ruled.

As to not double post, I also have a nomination for ALOMOMOLA for A+ Rank. This thing is just so fucking bulky. It honestly does beat about 90% of physical attackers, and passes some of the biggest wishes in the game. The ability to run that dreaded Mirror Coar with the SpD spread is amazing for taking out special pokes, and it performs a wonderful regenerator core with Amoonguss

 

[Molk]

Alrighty guys, i finally made the updates we were talking about before! There are too many changes to count so you guys are gonna have to take a look for yourselves to see what changed for now, i might compile a list of changes in the near future and edit it into this post though x.x

Please do note that this will probably be the final update to this viability thread until ORAS unless you guys think the people who helped contribute to the new list botched something up really badly x.x.

 

[g]

Alrighty guys, i finally made the updates we were talking about before! There are too many changes to count so you guys are gonna have to take a look for yourselves to see what changed for now, i might compile a list of changes in the near future and edit it into this post though x.x

Please do note that this will probably be the final update to this viability thread until ORAS unless you guys think the people who helped contribute to the new list botched something up really badly x.x.

Hippopotas has Hippowdon's sprite

 

[Holiday]

Alrighty guys, i finally made the updates we were talking about before! There are too many changes to count so you guys are gonna have to take a look for yourselves to see what changed for now, i might compile a list of changes in the near future and edit it into this post though x.x

Please do note that this will probably be the final update to this viability thread until ORAS unless you guys think the people who helped contribute to the new list botched something up really badly x.x.

Idk if it was on purpose but pawniard is in D rank and God Rank.

 

[Choice Banned]

Idk if it was on purpose but pawniard is in D rank and God Rank.

well pawn is a god

 

[Sweep]

Nominating Stunfisk for C- rank

I thought Stunfisk was already ranked here, as I've seen at least two very good players use it already, but since it isn't I figured I should post. Stunfisk is capable of checking many different relevant threats in RU, depending on the spread it runs. Physically defensive Stunfisk fares extremely well vs. Cobalion, Doublade, Fletchinder, Braviary, and to an extent Emboar, whereas specially defensive Stunfisk can check Moltres, Delphox, and Heliolisk. Electric types such as Jolteon and Magneton are completely stonewalled by both Stunfisk variants, though physically defensive Stunfisk won't appreciate taking a LO Surf from Heliolisk. Stunfisk also has access to Stealth Rock, which it can set reliably due to its excellent all-around bulk and unique defensive typing. Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Static hax are some examples of how Stunfisk can easily spread status around your opponent's team while supporting yours (offensive teams in particular love Static activations!) Finally, Stunfisk actually has acceptable offensive prowess for a wall, with two quality STAB moves in Discharge and Earth Power backed up by a passable 81 Special Attack stat. Stunfisk isn't scaring anyone with its power but can dent most offensively-inclined Pokemon with its attacks, moreso than some other walls like Alomomola and Registeel.

With that said, Stunfisk is still a flawed Pokemon. It's very slow, with a speed tier that puts it just above Aromatisse and Slowking and below Doublade and Rhyperior (both of which often run some speed creep to boot). If Stunfisk had reliable recovery, this wouldn't be as big an issue, but unfortunately it will almost always get hit twice if it attempts to come in and check something. Also, although that Electric-Ground typing has its uses, Stunfisk is weak to four common attacking types in Ground, Water, Ice, and Grass. All of those are common in RU, especially the first three. Stunfisk loses badly to many spinners and Defog users in the tier, such as Gligar, Shiftry and even the dreadful Claydol. I usually run Toxic to lure and cripple these threats, but it often isn't easy to keep rocks up. Finally, the aforementioned lack of recovery will usually mandate a Wish passer to keep its health up. Stunfisk undoubtedly needs a LOT of support from its team, but it's got some neat tools to work with and I'd say it's at the same level as Arbok, regular Abomasnow etc. Plus it's cute!

 

[atomicllamas]

Nominating Stunfisk for C- rank

I thought Stunfisk was already ranked here, as I've seen at least two very good players use it already, but since it isn't I figured I should post. Stunfisk is capable of checking many different relevant threats in RU, depending on the spread it runs. Physically defensive Stunfisk fares extremely well vs. Cobalion, Doublade, Fletchinder, Braviary, and to an extent Emboar, whereas specially defensive Stunfisk can check Moltres, Delphox, and Heliolisk. Electric types such as Jolteon and Magneton are completely stonewalled by both Stunfisk variants, though physically defensive Stunfisk won't appreciate taking a LO Surf from Heliolisk. Stunfisk also has access to Stealth Rock, which it can set reliably due to its excellent all-around bulk and unique defensive typing. Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Static hax are some examples of how Stunfisk can easily spread status around your opponent's team while supporting yours (offensive teams in particular love Static activations!) Finally, Stunfisk actually has acceptable offensive prowess for a wall, with two quality STAB moves in Discharge and Earth Power backed up by a passable 81 Special Attack stat. Stunfisk isn't scaring anyone with its power but can dent most offensively-inclined Pokemon with its attacks, moreso than some other walls like Alomomola and Registeel.

With that said, Stunfisk is still a flawed Pokemon. It's very slow, with a speed tier that puts it just above Aromatisse and Slowking and below Doublade and Rhyperior (both of which often run some speed creep to boot). If Stunfisk had reliable recovery, this wouldn't be as big an issue, but unfortunately it will almost always get hit twice if it attempts to come in and check something. Also, although that Electric-Ground typing has its uses, Stunfisk is weak to four common attacking types in Ground, Water, Ice, and Grass. All of those are common in RU, especially the first three. Stunfisk loses badly to many spinners and Defog users in the tier, such as Gligar, Shiftry and even the dreadful Claydol. I usually run Toxic to lure and cripple these threats, but it often isn't easy to keep rocks up. Finally, the aforementioned lack of recovery will usually mandate a Wish passer to keep its health up. Stunfisk undoubtedly needs a LOT of support from its team, but it's got some neat tools to work with and I'd say it's at the same level as Arbok, regular Abomasnow etc. Plus it's cute!

I added Stunfisk to D rank. It is definitely a viable Stealth Rock setter in RU, and has some really cool typing + Static is pro when it works. As Sweep stated in this post, depending on its spread, Stunfisk is capable of checking top metagame threats, and while it has a bad match up against Gligar, running Toxic on a Physically defensive set allows Stunfisk to keep SR up against Gligar in the long run. Its flaws which Sweep also listed (muh lazy post), mainly lack of reliable recovery make this thing not generally worth using, but it has a solid niche and is a pretty good pokemon when you use it for dealing with specific threats, setting SR and spreading paralysis.

 

[BlueLobster]

I would like to nominate Torkoal for D rank as it is the most viable bulky spinner of the tier. Therefore it has a small niche on hazard based teams, as using the more viable Gligar would remove their own hazards as well, ruining their own strategy. It can take Drapion's attacks, including EQ, very well and deal decent damage with Lava Plume, which has a high burn chance that can completely ruin Drapion. It can handle Virizion decently too, with a 16 S.Atk investment it can 2HKO after rocks and 2 layers of spikes.

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time.

I think this sums up Torkoal well, as small niche=only bulky spinner, flaws=weakness to SR and outclassed on non hazard based teams by defog Gligar, and for the most of the time there is no point using it.

 

[Grey Waves]

I would like to nominate Torkoal for D rank as it is the most viable bulky spinner of the tier. Therefore it has a small niche on hazard based teams, as using the more viable Gligar would remove their own hazards as well, ruining their own strategy. It can take Drapion's attacks, including EQ, very well and deal decent damage with Lava Plume, which has a high burn chance that can completely ruin Drapion. It can handle Virizion decently too, with a 16 S.Atk investment it can 2HKO after rocks and 2 layers of spikes.

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time.

I think this sums up Torkoal well, as small niche=only bulky spinner, flaws=weakness to SR and outclassed on non hazard based teams by defog Gligar, and for the most of the time there is no point using it.

The problem with Torkoal is that it is directly outclassed by Hitmontop, who does the 'bulky spinner' thing 10 times better due to Intimidate, a much better defensive typing, and having Foresight to get past spinblockers such as Doublade and Spiritomb.

Torkoal also has many crippling flaws that prevent it from doing its job well, most notably a terrible defensive typing and a lack of speed. This means that it will often be outsped and OHKO'd as it attempts to spin. Lastly, being weak to Stealth Rock and taking damage from Spikes is really detrimental to to Torkoal's capabilities as a spinner, as it will lose up to 50% of its health switching in if Stealth Rock and a couple of layers of Spikes are up. These flaws, combined with how it's near-completely outclassed by Hitmontop, prevent Torkoal from being any higher than E-rank imo.

Look on the bright side, at least you're not using Claydol.

 

[BlueLobster]

The problem with Torkoal is that it is directly outclassed by Hitmontop, who does the 'bulky spinner' thing 10 times better due to Intimidate, a much better defensive typing, and having Foresight to get past spinblockers such as Doublade and Spiritomb.

Torkoal also has many crippling flaws that prevent it from doing its job well, most notably a terrible defensive typing and a lack of speed. This means that it will often be outsped and OHKO'd as it attempts to spin. Lastly, being weak to Stealth Rock and taking damage from Spikes is really detrimental to to Torkoal's capabilities as a spinner, as it will lose up to 50% of its health switching in if Stealth Rock and a couple of layers of Spikes are up. These flaws, combined with how it's near-completely outclassed by Hitmontop, prevent Torkoal from being any higher than E-rank imo.

Look on the bright side, at least you're not using Claydol.

Yeah, I get the point that Hitmontop has great S.Def, decent defence coupled with intimidate, but that base 50 HP doesn't really shout defensive to me.

 

[EonX]

Yeah, I get the point that Hitmontop has great S.Def, decent defence coupled with intimidate, but that base 50 HP doesn't really shout defensive to me.

Hitmontop is used more as a physical sponge thanks to Intimidate and above-average Defense. This makes it a pretty reliable switch-in for the likes of Rhyperior, Sharpedo, Virizion, and Cobalion. While it may not be able to stay in against all of them, it will at the very least lower their damage output for a teammate to better handle them. The fact that it gets Rapid Spin and Foresight just makes Hitmontop that much more viable. Because Torkoal has subpar Special Defense, it's forced to be physically defensive, which isn't very good with its typing (loses to Rhyperior and Sharpedo rather easily)

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 172-203 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Torkoal: 196-231 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even with the slightly lower HP, Hitmontop actually takes physical hits marginally better than Torkoal thanks to Intimidate. Add on much better Speed, a better defensive typing, and access to Foresight to guarantee a Rapid Spin, and Hitmontop is just overall better than Torkoal. As for special attacks:

252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 292-345 (84.8 - 100.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 201-237 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Obviously, neither should be switching in much on special attackers, but Hitmontop can at least switch into certain ones if it has to.

 

[Molk]

THE ORAS viability rankings will be taking place in a new thread, i'm gonna keep this thread around for safekeeping, both for future tournaments and possibly have something to build the ORAS viability ranking off of

locking!