Scyther (QC 2/3)

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Anty

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Overview
########
  • High Speed combined with good attack
  • Good bulk with eviolite
  • Bad defensive typing
  • 4x weak to Stealth Rocks
  • Weak moves, even with technician

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Roost
move 3: Aerial Ace
move 4: Knock Off / Bug Bite / Brick Break
ability: Technician
item: Eviolite
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
  • Swords Dance allows Scyther to boost its Attack to the point in which it can sweep
  • Roost allows it to recover lost health, allowing it to set up without risk of being warn down too much
  • Aerial Ace is its main STAB move, boosted by Technician
  • Knock Off provides better neutral coverage with Aerial Ace, whilst crippling Pokemon it hits by removing their item
  • Bug Bite is a strong secondary STAB, however shares a resistance with Aerial Ace to Steel
  • Brick Break hits Rock- and Steel-type pokemon such as Klinklang and Kabutops, however bulkier ones, such as Steelix and Rhydon can take it even when Scyther is boosted

Set Details
========
  • 252 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature is to give it as much Speed as possible, allowing it to speed tie with Mismagius and Cryogonal
  • 248 HP EVs boost its mixed bulk as much as possible, whilst letting Scyther live an extra Stealth Rock switch in
  • Defenses are boosted even more by Eviolite
  • Rest of EVs dumped in Attack
  • Technician is the chosen ability, powering up Scyther's main attack, Aerial Ace
  • A more offensive set with 252 Attack instead of HP could used for more power, however it has a significant drop in bulk making it harder to set up

Usage Tips
========
  • Setting up is Scyther's main objective in order to apply as much damage as possible
  • Scythers typing and bulk allow it to set up on common Pokemon such as Vileplume, Gurdurr and Audino
  • Due its good bulk and reliable recovery, Scyther can set up multiple times in a game, so shouldnt be afraid to switch out if it has boosted when the opponent has something that threatens it
  • Scyther can be used throughout the battle to check Grass-, Fighting-, and Psychic-type Pokemon
Team Options
========
  • Scyther hazard removal is important, so Rapid Spin user, such as Kabutops and Sandslash make good partners. They both beat Rock-types, whilst Sandslash also beats Steel-types. Defog users, such as Pelipper could also work, but many share a Flying-type and weaknesses with Scyther
  • Scyther also appreciates entry hazards, from users such as Rhydon and Steelix, to wear down the opponents. The former resists four of Scythers weaknesses, whilst the latter resists three
  • Fighting-types, such as Sawk and Hariyama, beat Rock- and Steel-types, the latter also beats Pyroar, whilst in return, Scyther beats Psychic-types.
  • Rock- and Electric-types, such as Rhydon and Rotom, beat Flying-types
  • Strong Pokemon, such as Pyroar, can weaken the opposing team to the point that Scyther can sweep
  • Probopass can trap and KO Steel-types, such as Steelix and Klinklang

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: U-Turn
move 2: Aerial Ace
move 3: Knock Off / Bug Bite
move 4: Brick Break / Quick Attack / Pursuit
ability: Technician
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
  • U-Turn is a reliable STAB that allows Scyther to gain momentum on a switch whilst also dealing decent damage
  • Aerial Ace is a stronger, more reliable STAB with a better typing and doesnt switch Scyther out
  • Knock Off hits Pokemon such as Rotom, who resist your dual STAB, while also crippling switch ins by knocking off their item
  • Bug Bite is stronger than U-Turn making it a more reliable secondary STAB
  • Brick Break hits Steel- and Rock-types, such as Probopass and Steelix, for super effective damage
  • Quick Attack can be used for priority, allowing Scyther to revenge kill faster/boosted Pokemon
  • Pursuit can be used to trap Psychic- and Ghost-types, such as Mespirit and Mismagius, that Scyther forces out

Set Details
========
  • Max Speed and Jolly Nature is to outspeed as much as possible
  • Max Attack and Choice Band increase its strength
  • Technician boosts the power of Aerial Ace, Bug Bite, Quick Attack and Pursuit

Usage Tips
========
  • Due to its low bulk and weaknesses, Scyther dislikes switching into many hits, however it has several resistances and an immunity it can come in on
  • U-Turn should be your main move, as it can gain momentum on a possible switch out
  • Be careful when looking Scyther into a weak move, like Pursuit or Quick Attack, as set up sweepers can easily exploit that. Bulkier set up sweepers, like Klinklang, can set up on nearly all Scyther moves
  • Try not to switch in Scyther with Stealth Rocks present, as it majorly decreases its survivability.

Team Options
========
  • Rapid Spin users, such as Sandslash, and Defog users, such as Togetic, can clear hazards, allowing Scyther to more freely switch in
  • Ground-types, such as Seismitoad and Golurk, beat Steel-, Fire-, and Poison-types that resist U-turn
  • Fighting-types, such as Gurdurr appreciate the removal of Psychic-type Pokemon, such as Musharna, whilst Fighting-types beat Rock- and Steel-types
  • Scyther baits in Rock-type Pokemon, which it can U-turn out of to Pokemon such as Feraligatr and Samurott, who can use them as set up fodder. Scyther also beats Grass-types which give them problems
  • Other Pokemon that use Volt Switch and U-Turn, such as Rotom and Primeape, can form a Volturn core with Scyther.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: U-Turn
move 2: Aerial Ace
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Pursuit / Brick Break
ability: Technician
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
  • U-Turn allows it to pivot away from bad situations and gain momentum on opposing switch outs
  • Aerial Ace is its strongest STAB move with a better typing and will keep Scyther in play
  • Knock Off cripples switch ins and hits Ghost-types, such as Rotom and Golurk
  • Pursuit lets it trap Psychic- and Ghost-types, such as Exeggutor and Mismagius
  • Brick Break allows Scyther to hit Rock- and Steel-types, such as Rhydon and Steelix, however is weak and those pokemon can take it

Set Details
========
  • Max Speed is to increase its speed as much as possible. Jolly nature is required to outspeed other Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion and Rotom
  • Choice Scarf allows Scyther to become a revenge killer, as along with its high Speed, it can outspeed most boosted opponents, such as Lilligant
  • Max attack allows it to hit as hard as possible.
  • Adamant nature can be used to increase its attack, as it has no way of boosting it, but then Scyther loses to other Choice Scarf and Boosted Pokemon

Usage Tips
========
  • Scyther should be used as a revenge killer as it can outspeed the entire unboosted meta, however dislikes to switch in and take a hit
  • U-Turn is its main attack, as it allows Scyther to pivot around and gain momentum
  • Knock Off should be used on predicted switches to Pokemon who can consistantly switch in, such as rhydon, in order to cripple them
  • Pursuit allows Scyther to trap Psychic- and Ghost-types, as well as ensure a KO on a weakened opponent. However Pursuit is very weak and easy to take advantage of.

Team Options
========
  • Rapid Spin and Defog users, such as Kabutops and Prinplup, are vital in order to clear Stealth Rocks, as otherwise Scyther can only switch in twice
  • Fighting and Ground-types such as Sawk and Golurk, beat Rock- and Steel-types that can take hits and threaten Scyther. There former appreciate the removal of Psychic-types can also beat Ice-types whilst the latter can check Electric-types
  • Water-type Pokemon, such as Lanturn and Seismitoad, check Fire- and Rock-types
  • Wallbreakers, such as Magmortar and Kangaskhan, weaken the the opposing Pokemon which may allow Scyther to clean up late game with Aerial Ace.

Other Options
########
  • Baton Pass allows Scyther to pass its boost to a team mate
  • A bulkier spread could be used with Swords Dance, however, lack of Speed investment limits Scythers sweeping potential
  • Swords Dance + 3 Attacks with Life Orb, but harder for Scyther to set up

Checks & Counters
########

**Rock-Types**: Rock-types, such as Regirock and Rhydon, resist Flying and dont take much from Bug- or Fighting-type coverage, and can set up entry hazards or deal heavy damage. Archeops can outspeed Scyther and OHKO with its Rock STAB, whilst offensive Rhydon can set up on Scyther, as it avoids the 2HKO from Brick Break. Barbaracle and Carracosta can also use Scyther as set up fodder.

**Steel-Types**: Steel-types, such as Steelix and Probopass, can live any boosted hit, can retaliate back or set up entry hazards, however they have to be weary of Choice Band Brick Break. Klinklang can set up Shift Gears on Scyther, and can take a Choice Banded Brick Break if necessary.

**Electric-Types: Bulky Electric-types, such as Lanturn and Stunfisk, resist Flying and can deal heavy damage with their Electric STAB, but dislike switching into repeated U-Turn, however Stunfisk can paralyse Scyther if it does so with Static. Rotom-S resists Scyther's dual STAB, however dislikes switching in multiple times if hazards are present and has to be watch out for Knock Off. Raichu can outspeed and deal heavy damage Scyther with Thunderbolt.

**Physical Walls**: Physically defensive Pokemon, such as Weezing and Granbull, can live a hit and retaliate back with status or deal heavy damage with their attacks. Garbodor can set up entry hazards on Scyther and Haze away if it tries to set up.

**Status**: Paralysis makes Scyther much easier to revenge kill, and users such as Togetic can live a boosted hit. Burn prevents Scyther from doing much damage, which can be applied by Pokemon such as Rotom and Weezing via Will-O-Wisp.

**Faster Pokemon**: Choice Scarf users, such as Rotom and Typhlosion, can outspeed and revenge kill a weakened Scyther with their STABs, however dislike switching in. Naturally faster Pokemon, such as Swellow and Pyroar, can also outspeed and KO Scyther.
 
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Punchshroom

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Scyther also appreciates entry hazards, from users such as Ferroseed and Crustle, to wear down the opponents
Are those really the extent of hazard users Scyther appreciates? I'm sure you can make a mention of things like Seismitoad, Dragalge, and Rhydon that complement Scyther better defensively. I know you've mentioned some of them already, but you can repeat them (so long as you don't go overboard) so as to emphasize their synergy with Scyther.

A more offensive set with 252 Attack instead of HP could used for more power, however it has a significant drop in Defense making it harder to set up
You're not invested in Defense, you're invested in HP. Change that to 'bulk'.

Setting up isnt always the correct thing to do; if the opponent has something that walls you, attacking or recovering health can be the correct play
I think you can phrase this to something along the lines of 'try not to set up too early if the opponent has something that can wall Scyther'
If Scyther has already set up, switching out on something that will beat is fine
This can be changed to 'don't be afraid to switch and throw away Swords Dance boosts if faced with something that threatens Scyther'. Honestly this is somewhat obvious and doesn't need to be mentioned, unless you can back it up with something like 'Scyther's good bulk means it can find time to set up again later if need be'.

Rotom-F resists Scyther's dual STAB
Rotom-F is Rotom-Fridge; change to Rotom-S (Spin). Add regular Rotom in there as well, just note it has to watch out for Knock Off.

Nitpicking time:
Pursuit can be used to trap Psychic-types, such as Mespirit and Musharna, that Scyther forces out
Mismagius can be added in there. You may make a slight note that Sneasel does fast Pursuit trapping better, if you wish.
Naturally faster Pokemon, such as Swellow, can also outspeed and KO Scyther.
You can add Pyroar in there, surprised you hadn't added any Fire-types in C&C as at least a check :/

All that said, good job!
QC 1/3
 

Anty

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Are those really the extent of hazard users Scyther appreciates? I'm sure you can make a mention of things like Seismitoad, Dragalge, and Rhydon that complement Scyther better defensively. I know you've mentioned some of them already, but you can repeat them (so long as you don't go overboard) so as to emphasize their synergy with Scyther.


You're not invested in Defense, you're invested in HP. Change that to 'bulk'.


I think you can phrase this to something along the lines of 'try not to set up too early if the opponent has something that can wall Scyther'

This can be changed to 'don't be afraid to switch and throw away Swords Dance boosts if faced with something that threatens Scyther'. Honestly this is somewhat obvious and doesn't need to be mentioned, unless you can back it up with something like 'Scyther's good bulk means it can find time to set up again later if need be'.


Rotom-F is Rotom-Fridge; change to Rotom-S (Spin). Add regular Rotom in there as well, just note it has to watch out for Knock Off.

Nitpicking time:

Mismagius can be added in there. You may make a slight note that Sneasel does fast Pursuit trapping better, if you wish.

You can add Pyroar in there, surprised you hadn't added any Fire-types in C&C as at least a check :/

All that said, good job!
QC 1/3
Thanks. The main reason why i didnt add a fire type section in c&c is that they dont actually check it too well; scyther outspeeds and KO's typhlosion at +2 or can take a scarf fire blast (same with magmortar), and there arent many fire types in general (although i dont know why i didnt add pyroar)
 

soulgazer

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Anty please rework on both usage tips and checks & counters. you currently have stuff that are actually set up fodder for bulky sd scyther in c&c and 'scarf primeape' in scarfers.. sd's usage tips is the worst of the two since you call it a late game cleaner when it can actually be used at any point of the game to wall stuff/handle psychic-types and punch holes for its teammates

tag me when done
 

Anty

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Soulgazer , i see what you mean with UT and have improved them. Im not sure what pokemon you are referring to in c&c, as although it can tank hits from pokemon such as granbull, it heavily dislikes paralysis.
 

marilli

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252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-228 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

not an ohko

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 242-283 (70.5 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also not an ohko

change to heavy damage it's literally impossible to OHKO bulky Scyther unless Rock-type move or insanely powerful super effective STAB. And typh too etc but check your ohkoes before you advertise as such
 

Anty

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252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 192-228 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

not an ohko

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 242-283 (70.5 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also not an ohko

change to heavy damage it's literally impossible to OHKO bulky Scyther unless Rock-type move or insanely powerful super effective STAB. And typh too etc but check your ohkoes before you advertise as such
Thanks, i sorted it out.
 

Blast

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Is Bug Bite even good on SD? I mean it really doesn't seem to cover anything, its SE coverage is somewhat trivial and Knock Off is a lot more useful for removing items from counters (plus it doesn't help against most Flying resists).

The Overview doesn't explain much about Scyther. It just states a lot of dry info about stats that you can just as easily find out through Google. Talk less about its obvious traits and more about how it puts them to use (no mention of U-turn, for example?) You're not currently explaining anything people shouldn't already know.

Usage Tips for SD have two weird points. Saying that Scyther's "main objective" is to set up implies that it should always use SD on any free turn, which isn't true. You also say it can be used as a "wallbreaker," which isn't true either. Talk about what it does midgame and what points of the game it should set up SD

Also don't make it sound like Defoggers are completely inferior to spinners in TO for both sets, they work fine on certain teams. Plus it's not like Sandslash + Kabutops don't share weaknesses of their own lol
"A bulkier spread could be used with Swords Dance, however, lack of Attack investment limits Scythers sweeping potential"
The bulky spread is the main one so remove that from OO
 

Anty

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Dat Blast , I see what you mean and i have changed the things you have mentioned (every viable spinner/defoger shares a weakness sadly). I do feel knock off is slightly better (gave it first slash), as it doesnt make you useless when the opp has something like a steelix or rhydon which wall you, but bug bite does have some merits, mainly being stronger.
 

Deej Dy

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Ok, seems alright but I have a few major problems,

-1st off the argument with using Sandslash as a rapid spinner over a more consistent defogger is ridiculous. Togetic is not the only defogger in the tier and also Sandslash is unreliable at spinning and shares an ice weakness, so that basic argument is invalid. The only benefit I see is a rock resistance, and an obvious switch/Uturn from Scyther into Sandslash. Defoggers such as Prinplup are great partners for reliable hazard removal (ask Kiyo , just make sure to have a electric resist.
I would delete that line and point out defoggers as great reliable teammates.

-2nd Definitely mention Brick break as a coverage move alongside knockoff/bug bite for the SD set, as it can help scyther get past walls such as Steelix and other steel/rock types (barring ones with strong rock stabs, such as Rhydon, Armaldo, Carracosta, etc), while they can't do all that much in return without a strong Rock STAB.
I would like to see a /brick break as a coverage option next to bug bite and knock off

-3rd I would mention fighting types as great teammates to receive a SD baton pass from Scyther as they can come in on a resisted rock move and have sweeping potential.

Besides these issues it seems like a pretty good write-up, and I'd be happy to give a 2/3 QC once these are implemented and I look through a 2nd time ;)
 
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Anty

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Ok, seems alright but I have a few major problems,

-1st off the argument with using Sandslash as a rapid spinner over a more consistent defogger is ridiculous. Togetic is not the only defogger in the tier and also Sandslash is unreliable at spinning and shares an ice weakness, so that basic argument is invalid. The only benefit I see is a rock resistance, and an obvious switch/Uturn from Scyther into Sandslash. Defoggers such as Prinplup are great partners for reliable hazard removal (ask Kiyo , just make sure to have a electric resist.
I would delete that line and point out defoggers as great reliable teammates.

-2nd Definitely mention Brick break as a coverage move alongside knockoff/bug bite for the SD set, as it can help scyther get past walls such as Steelix and other steel/rock types (barring ones with strong rock stabs, such as Rhydon, Armaldo, Carracosta, etc), while they can't do all that much in return without a strong Rock STAB.
I would like to see a /brick break as a coverage option next to bug bite and knock off

-3rd I would mention fighting types as great teammates to receive a SD baton pass from Scyther as they can come in on a resisted rock move and have sweeping potential.

Besides these issues it seems like a pretty good write-up, and I'd be happy to give a 1/3 QC once these are implemented and I look through a 2nd time ;)
1. After seeing dat blasts post i noticed, but i only took it off one of the sets, so i will change

2. Brick break still does 40% max to steelix at +2, however KOs kabutops and klinklang after small prior damage, so i will slash (also can 2hko ferroseed)

3. Im not sure what you mean as the set isnt baton pass and i have mentioned fighting types in TO...
Thanks for the help
 

Kushalos

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Hey Anty im leaving this spread right here for you cause i feel like its more efficient that the current one you have here:

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 136 HP / 152 Atk / 4 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Roost
- Baton Pass

Scyther always 2HKO's Typhlosion with Aerial Ace(OHKO after SD) with the attack evs. Baton Pass is a cool slash which you should defs include on the first set. Speed is to still outspeed base 100's so you can invest a bit more in bulk.
 

Anty

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Hey Anty im leaving this spread right here for you cause i feel like its more efficient that the current one you have here:

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 136 HP / 152 Atk / 4 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aerial Ace
- Roost
- Baton Pass

Scyther always 2HKO's Typhlosion with Aerial Ace(OHKO after SD) with the attack evs. Baton Pass is a cool slash which you should defs include on the first set. Speed is to still outspeed base 100's so you can invest a bit more in bulk.
Sorry for taking a while to respond. Peronsally, i like the spread, as it allows it to maintain a good speed tier (the only things missed are speed ties), whilst giving it more of an offensive presence. It does leave an annoying loss of bulk (damage does about 9 or 10% more), but i still feel it should be the main spread.
Tagging Soulgazer , Dat Blast and Deej Dy for thought, as they have all posted here previously.
 

watashi

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  • A bulkier spread could be used with Swords Dance, however, lack of Attack investment limits Scythers sweeping potential
i assume you mean lack of speed since the main set doesn't have any attack investment either

add a choice scarf set with u turn / aerial ace / knock off / pursuit | brick break. it's not too weak

you can remove the following points from the analysis as they are pointless or incorrect
  • Great ability in technician
  • Decent movepool
  • Has the ability to set up
  • In certain situations, when it cannot sweep, Scyther can be used as a wall breaker due its large power
  • Late game, Aerial Ace can be used to clean up after Flying-type resistances are gone
 

Anty

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  • A bulkier spread could be used with Swords Dance, however, lack of Attack investment limits Scythers sweeping potential
i assume you mean lack of speed since the main set doesn't have any attack investment either

add a choice scarf set with u turn / aerial ace / knock off / pursuit | brick break. it's not too weak

you can remove the following points from the analysis as they are pointless or incorrect
  • Great ability in technician
  • Decent movepool
  • Has the ability to set up
  • In certain situations, when it cannot sweep, Scyther can be used as a wall breaker due its large power
  • Late game, Aerial Ace can be used to clean up after Flying-type resistances are gone
Sorry for the delay, but i have implemented what you have said.
 

watashi

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  • Max Speed is to increase its speed as much as possible. Timid nature is required to outspeed other Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion and Rotom
put pursuit before brick break on the scarf set. it's very useful for trapping pokemon such as rotom or jynx. it might be weak but brick break is weak as well.

qc 2/3
 

Anty

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The scarf set's item is Choice Band.
  • Max Speed is to increase its speed as much as possible. Timid nature is required to outspeed other Choice Scarf users such as Typhlosion and Rotom
put pursuit before brick break on the scarf set. it's very useful for trapping pokemon such as rotom or jynx. it might be weak but brick break is weak as well.

qc 2/3
Thanks and i hav updated

This is ready for its final check
 
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