Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Kiyo]

Murkrow for B; its one of the only hard stops to CM Xatu/Uxi there is and that alone makes me rate it well. Maybe it'd go well on a stall team as an answer to said said stall-breakers?

can you please re-read the qualifications for the rankings? there is some structure to them, and so far all i've seen from you is posting absurd rankings for pokemon you have a fetish for. murkrow deserves no higher than b- or c+ and could easily go as low as c- having one specific niche or counterign one specific pokemon doesn't make that pokemon A or B rank by default. if you're going to post these absurd suggestions can you at least give some calcs to support your arguments or relevant information on pokes outside of what they counter.

Thanks.

 

[eden]

Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. - Definition of B rank. :/. The niche I'm looking for is countering Stallbreakers like Uxie/Xatu and setup sweepers like Ninetales/Boufflant/Feraligatr are met with a quick encore forcing them out and seeing how this will generally be played on a stall team, I feel a moveset of like Calm Mind/Encore or Encore/Dark Pulse/Recover or the such would be extremely helpful/ however for the previously mentioned niche CM/DP/Taunt/Roost . Its not Feraligatr but it does have a niche, and it doesn't counter one specific Pokemon :/. Is this better? Oh and you might want to post some relevant arguements yourself instead of getting upset :/, I do get my last two posts were a little lacklustre but still

 

[watashi]

if you're talking about murkrow it doesn't learn encore

i agree that while murkrow does have a small niche of being able to counter psychic-types, it faces stiff competition from the many other dark-types in the tier, such as pawniard, pangoro, liepard, etc, as well as vullably which has better defensive capabilities and defog. even then it's a fairly small niche, especially since most teams don't need to carry a dedicated counter to psychic-types. therefore murkrow should stay where it is

 

[eden]

AH really sorry...confused it with Liepard. >_< Sorry guys.

 

[Dentricos]

Well... I am locked out of showdown due to rangelock AGAIN... so I might as well post my thoughts on a select few mons I think should move.

Vileplume B+ ---> A

Yes it may not be an excellent answer to mons in S ranked like it was awile back BUT that doesn't mean it should sit in B+ when it is still so good against so many physical attackers in the tier. It's defensive niche is not outclassed by anything and it also has a decent use if people want to use it offensively.

Klinklang A- ---> B

I'll start off by admitting this thing is dangerous as fuck. To an unprepared team this has a huge capability in terms of sweeping. The first team I made basically lost if the other team brought along this mon and played it with some level of intelligence.

However I don't think viability should be based on how good it is against unprepared teams. It has absolutely no way of even getting a decent amount of damage on rotom, steelix, seismitoad, or lanturn (even stunfisk). Most fire or ground types are also able to switch in and beat it as well like sandslash, but they are not able to take hits as well.

The fact that it is this EZ to stop should warrant a lesser ranking imo.

 

[Punchshroom]

Well... I am locked out of showdown due to rangelock AGAIN... so I might as well post my thoughts on a select few mons I think should move.

Vileplume B+ ---> A

Yes it may not be an excellent answer to mons in S ranked like it was awile back BUT that doesn't mean it should sit in B+ when it is still so good against so many physical attackers in the tier. It's defensive niche is not outclassed by anything and it also has a decent use if people want to use it offensively

Effect Spore is still annoying as hell, but I have to say that Plume is not walling as much of the meta as it used to. The increase of Fire-type and Psychic-type Pokemon mean that Plume is commonly threatened, and even a large majority of physical attackers such as Ice Punch Feraligatr, LO Kabutops, and Silk Scarf Kangaskhan, can do enough damage to Plume such that it really struggles to wall them if it is worn down in any way (aka SR); Gatr doesn't even need any damage on Plume to beat it one-on-one. Offensively, Plume isn't as good as Exeggutor which is stronger, faster, and not as easily walled, while offensive Plume no longer has the bulk necessary to comfortably wall threats. The only things that Plume can reliably wall in the meta would be Fighting-types as Ice Punch usage is slowly dwindling on them due to the rise of Garbodor, but that is a trade-off since Garbo itself can take advantage of Plume.

Klinklang A- ---> B

I'll start off by admitting this thing is dangerous as fuck. To an unprepared team this has a huge capability in terms of sweeping. The first team I made basically lost if the other team brought along this mon and played it with some level of intelligence.

However I don't think viability should be based on how good it is against unprepared teams. It has absolutely no way of even getting a decent amount of damage on rotom, steelix, seismitoad, or lanturn (even stunfisk). Most fire or ground types are also able to switch in and beat it as well like sandslash, but they are not able to take hits as well.

The fact that it is this EZ to stop should warrant a lesser ranking imo.

Most Klinklang responses tend to be too passive to deal a lot of damage and have no good recovery, unlike the responses to the most relatable setup sweeper to Klinklang, Lilligant. Klinklang is one of the only setup sweepers in the tier that gives a rat's ass about Kangaskhan, which is already quite a niche to hold. It is akin to Lilligant in such a way that its poor coverage is made up for by its terrific boosting move. Klinklang's typing, coupled with Substitute, also grants it easy setup opportunities on things like Ferroseed, Uxie, Cryogonal, Granbull, and even things like Exeggutor and (unboosted) Slurpuff, all of which aren't exactly easy for other setup sweepers to take advantage of. The fact that Shift Gear doubles speed means Klinklang can both afford bulk and render itself 'unrevengeable' by Choice Scarfers, making it a notable threat for offensive teams to face.

 

[Dentricos]

Effect Spore is annoying as hell, but I have to say that Plume is not walling as much of the meta as it used to. The increase of Fire-type and Psychic-type Pokemon mean that Plume is commonly threatened, and even a large majority of physical attackers such as Ice Punch Feraligatr, LO Kabutops, and Silk Scarf Kangaskhan, can do enough damage to Plume such that it really struggles to wall them if it is worn down in any way (aka SR); Gatr doesn't even need any damage on Plume to beat it one-on-one. Offensively, Plume isn't as good as Exeggutor which is stronger, faster, and not as easily walled, while offensive Plume no longer has the bulk necessary to comfortably wall threats. The only things that Plume can reliably wall in the meta would be Fighting-types as Ice Punch usage is slowly dwindling on them due to the rise of Garbodor, but that is a trade-off since Garbo itself can take advantage of Plume.

I wouldn't say the increase in fire types and psychic types makes plume less viable... most teams would have a seperate response to those mons and it's not like typhlosion, pyroar, or mespirit want to repeatedly switch in on plume. It stands as one of the best responses to things like sawk, granbull, gurdurr, ect..

Also in terms of kanga I think plume will still beat kanga in the majority of cases. Plume has access to one of my favorite moves aromatheropy. Also sleep powder, recovery and solid coverage...

Most Klinklang responses tend to be too passive to deal a lot of damage and have no good recovery, unlike the responses to the most relatable setup sweeper to Klinklang, Lilligant. Klinklang is one of the only setup sweepers in the tier that gives a rat's ass about Kangaskhan, which is already quite a niche to hold. It is akin to Lilligant in such a way that its poor coverage is made up for by its terrific boosting move. Klinklang's typing, coupled with Substitute, also grants it easy setup opportunities on things like Ferroseed, Uxie, Cryogonal, Granbull, and even things like Exeggutor and (unboosted) Slurpuff, all of which aren't exactly easy for other setup sweepers to take advantage of. The fact that Shift Gear doubles speed means Klinklang can both afford bulk and render itself 'unrevengeable' by Choice Scarfers, making it a notable threat for offensive teams to face.

Not sure I agree tbh. I've faced it so many times and it is often pretty useless... I rarely see any good players having problems with it... also it rarely fits any gud teams...

 

[Fling]

I'd like to see Frillish move out of E for the reason that it beats a lot of top tier threats 1v1 eg. Gatr, Rott, Typhlosion, Pyroar unless they have dark pulse obviously. It has amazing special bulk and so you can afford to invest all in defense to make up for its lack physical bulk. It has access to recover, willo, nightshade, so its not set up fodder to most mons. It beats rain and it functions decently as a spin blocker. I would probably like to see this mon in C- as lampent is C+ as they both work the same defensively with their ability and typing but lampent is a lot more offensive.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Im seconding the KlingKlang drop. While it i
s a dangerous pokemon and can sweep unprepared teams, the fact still lies with that it has shit Coverage and gets hardwalled by so many things in the tier. getting prepared for KlingKlang is alo super easy since you only need to add a water type to hardwall the SubGear set, and the 3atk+gear set cannot do anything against stall (and Ferro hardwalls that set like hell). Its main stab is very unreliable and is resisted by many common pokemon. Return does not hit any off these super effectivly and even after 2 gears you're lacking quite the power to muscle though common Phazers and some defensive walls

Sum calcs of what +2 KlingKlang can do

Hide

+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 152-179 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 82-96 (23.1 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 204-240 (62.7 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 132-156 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 175-207 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 132-156 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Klinklang Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 147-173 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

What these mons can do back

Hide

4 Atk Poliwrath Circle Throw vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 110-132 (38.7 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 168-200 (59.1 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 142-169 (50 - 59.5%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 100-118 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 77.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 194-230 (68.3 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Qwilfish Waterfall vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 75-88 (26.4 - 30.9%) -- 10.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 87-103 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

As these calcs shows, KlingKlang has big problems with many walls that fair well in the meta. All of these can break your sub even with minimum damage, preventing you from setting up even further (also adding the fact that Pelipper and Toad can burn it with scald).

The 3atk+Gear can break Poli, Pelliper and qwil, but looses to ferro and Uxie, which are much more common on Stall from my experience.

also liepard makes KlingKlang cry

Drop KlingKlang from A- to B+/B

 

[Teddeh]

Well, looking at what Dentricos and looking at what Punchshroom has said, there are so many things wrong with what punch has said about the use of vileplume:
"The increase of Fire-type and Psychic-type Pokemon mean that Plume is commonly threatened, and even a large majority of physical attackers such as Ice Punch Feraligatr, LO Kabutops, and Silk Scarf Kangaskhan, can do enough damage to Plume such that it really struggles to wall them if it is worn down in any way (aka SR); Gatr doesn't even need any damage on Plume to beat it one-on-one."
Firstly, fire types are so easy to account for and there is so much easy team synergy that can be used to help support vile on this, it is easily not a problem and it doesn't make vileplume any less effective by any means. Psychic types prefer to run psyshock over psychic for yama, again this isn't really a problem as you can tank most psyshocks from most mesprits or uxies in a lot of scenarios however I don't recommend you stay in, but it is still a very small point that can be made.
However, for the main points I want to bring up about vile: it can still switch into kanga since it can wall AV kanga and it can beat double edge kanga if no stealth rocks. It has RELIABLE RECOVERY which gives it a niche over pretty much every other fighting check, that's what it is used for, beating fighting types. It is one of the best if not the best knock off sponge since life orb liepard does 40% to a defensive plume on the first knock off, also with every time they click knock off or u-turn on the plant that they are risking a 30% chance to get fucked by effect spore and more often than not can win you games. It can absorb t-spikes and it can still be a secondary check to gatr. LO kabu struggles against plume if you predict the right move to come in on, i admit it doesn't like a +2 adamant life orb stone edge, but neither does anything in the tier. Not to mention having a vileplume against a rain team is very very nice, since it can switch in on waterfalls, stall out turns from ludicolo with giga drain and even hard wall certain types of offensive toads that like to roam on these rain teams and poliwraths that run dual stab.
And to my final point, no one prepares for vileplume anymore. It can beat the majority of teams. Several games during the NU OLT, vileplume walled 4-5 members of their team at least and it was taking their team on single handedly. E.g against Blapperl or even against Bisharp. It's a more than capable solid pokemon with reliable recovery in a meta where dark types such as liepard are on every team to prepare for the psychic spam^ and get beaten by this plant. Fighting types are beaten 1 on 1 and so are 95% of the physical attackers in this tier. I fully support the rise of vileplume to A as the meta has changed. It was once prepared for on every team but not at this current time and it is fully effective in more than 90% of my match ups using this pokemon.
I fully support rise to A rank.

 

[Punchshroom]

iTeddeh For pretty much any physical attacker in the tier without Knock Off, I feel Tangela or Ferroseed do a better job at stopping them due to Eviolited bulk and Regenerator/amazing typing.

That said, I may have underrated Vileplume's role as one of, if not the best all-around Knock Off absorber in the tier right now, as well as one of the best Fighting-type responses available, mainly due to its reliable recovery (I dunno about you, but this reminds me an awful lot about Pelipper '~' ); though unlike Pelipper, Plume is immune to Toxic and lacks an SR weakness. I can see why people want Plume to rise, but A still seems like a stretch given the large amount of special threats and non-Fighting-type Pokemon that can threaten it, especially those that take advantage of Plume's slight 4MSS (Mismagius and Garbodor set up on variants lacking Powder moves; Klinklang, Ferroseed, and Pawniard set up those without Hidden Power, meaning there is little room for Aromatherapy which would help distinguish Plume from Tangela/Ferroseed) that Tangela/Ferroseed aren't as affected by. I could probably settle for A-, but no higher imo.

Also, if we're going to put it into context of psychic and fire types that force out vileplume, that also applies to garbodor too. Since it's a fighting check, it gets straight ohko'd by specs eruptions and life orb fire blasts, setup on by mesprit and uxie too.

Well yes Teddeh, and guess where Garbodor's current rank is? Being a hazard setter that can fend off Cryogonal and Kabutops gives it points though.

 

[Teddeh]

Also, if we're going to put it into context of psychic and fire types that force out vileplume, that also applies to garbodor too. Since it's a fighting check, it gets straight ohko'd by specs eruptions and life orb fire blasts, setup on by mesprit and uxie too.

 

[wolfenstein]

I'd like to nominate Prinplup for rank C. Dentricos actually nominated this thing for C+ circa page 43 and I don't think this is something that can be ignored. This thing is one of the few good foggers we have in NU, it has a great (although simple) defensive typing that puts it in a position where it can take a lot of special and even physical hits with eviolite, and has only two weaknesses meaning it can sponge a lot of hits in order to set up stealth rocks before it dies. It also happens to be one of the only NU (PU) pokemon that isn't weak to stealth rocks and has rocks of it's own. The fact that it's in the same rank as mantine has to change, it has way more niches over it. It isn't weak to rocks, has its own rocks, an arguably better typing and has yawn, which is underrated and clutch AF. I would vouch for this thing being good enough to go even higher than C, but looking at the pokemon in C+ makes me a bit iffy on that. Thoughts? It's biggest flaw is the lack of recovery.

Some relevant calcs on the defensive and spdef set:
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 135-160 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 146-172 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 93-109 (28 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 102-122 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- 67.7% chance to 3HKO
8 SpA Prinplup Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Typhlosion: 168-198 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 124-147 (37.4 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Cradily Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 80-96 (24.1 - 29%) -- 96.2% chance to 4HKO (sorry Dentri)

It's quite amazing how many calcs I could sit here and feed you all day to show this thing off, but I gave the top 7.
Oh and never underestimate base 81 spA with scald (best move bar knock off). Prinplup takes lives.

 

[Dentricos]

Good morning everybody :D

Showdown is still offline for some bizarre reason..... so yeah, here are some more of my opinions.

"LAST UPDATE: October 19th"

O.o can we get a more recent update plz XD

Typhlosion S ---> A

Yes this is one of the most powerful wall breakers in the tier and has a godlike speed tier. In fact it wouldn't be a lie to say this is one of the top mons u have to prepare for when building a team.

However by definition alone it definitely should not be S ranked as it is.

Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep significant portions of the metagame with little suppor. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

In terms of whether it can do it's role through large proportions of the metagame: yes... yes it can... HOWEVER... that is also in the definition of A ranked mons. The difference is that S ranked mons need to be able to do their job with little support and are very hard to beat even with a prepared team.

Typhlosion needs a good amount of support to get passed it's checks and counters. To be honest if you even remotely prepare for this thing then it isn't that much of a problem 9 times out of 10. If u prepare for gatr/ mespirit they can easily still do thier role. Also they require substantially less support because both are capable of getting passed their checks by running a slightly different variant.

Edit:

In response to what Sir Kay said I disagree that A is too low. Back when it was A+ I made a case for it to move down because it is so easy to deal with, it's not able to be unpredictable, very weak to hazzards, weak to priority, and frail as shit... Yes it is something you need to prepare for but I feel people rate this WAY too highly.

Lilligant A ---> A+

I have been playing with and against this I have found that this plant is able to put in WORK. To put it in context if u think u can switch dragalge or something in on this u will just be put asleep. Allowing this to continue to set up. It may not get much coverage but most of the time it doesn't need much. It gets stab giga, hp fire, tri attack, and hp fire.

This is far more guaranteed to cripple teams then other threats and I think it deserves A+.

Gurdurr A- ---> B+

Yeah... this used to be gud but recently it has not been to effective as a top tier threat. It struggles to get in at weak points of well made teams and even with access to knock off it is not too effective with all of the colbur psychic types running around.

It's usefulness is further limited by things like granbull and slurpuff running around often making this mon just dead weight.

That said it's still a great mon just not up to par with the current standards.

Sandslash B- ---> B

This is such an under rated mon. It doesn't have shit speed, so you can put in a small amount of speed to outspeed necessary mons and still be running mostly bulk. It's not frail in the slightest and has a great typing to be a spinner (resists rocks). With swords dance and knock off it is very difficult to spinblock.

Also when it's not spinning sd slash is lethal. When played right this mon takes lives.


Just gonna throw some opinions of mine that still stand:

Pyroar A+ ---> A

Klinklang A- ---> B

Uxie A+ ---> S

Scyther B- ---> B

Torterra B ---> C+

Simipour B ---> B-

Exeggutor B- ---> B

Prinplup C- ---> C+

Musharna B+ ---> A-

 

[kay]

I don't have much time, so I'm just going to pick out a few and try to keep things short.

Typhlosion S ---> A

I don't really have much to say on this, as the main point for if this should be S or A+ have more or less already been stated. A is simply to low of a rank for a pokemon this great.

Musharna B+ ---> A-
I personally think this should go higher in the viable ranks then A-. This is the best calm mind user in the tier and it can sweep a number of teams. If you're not running a dark type, or you lost it in the battle, this thing will claim your life.

Scyther B- ---> B
Yes, yes, and yes. This thing is SUCH a threat and should move up. Not much more to say.

Simipour B ---> B-
Wholeheartedly disagree. I'm just going to pull some points I made in an earlier post about this thing.

1: It had an amazing speed tier, out speeding base 100s (looking at you Typhlosion)
2: Nasty Plot.
3: It's only competition for a water special attacker is Samurott. And Simipour boasts better speed, the same Sp.A, and the same move pool.
4: it's an offensive check to Typhlosion and Gatr.

Uxie A+ ---> S
With Amarillo's imprison CM set, this thing set a way to best mushy in a CM war. Not something anyone else can do.

This thing is simply great at everything it does, (Support, CM, screens + Memento, weather. I've even used a scarf trick lead a few times.)
This is really an S rank pokemon hiding in the A+ section.

Sorry for the short descriptions. I just wanted to get them out there while I had time.

 

[Ares]

Uxie A+ ---> S
With Amarillo's imprison CM set, this thing set a way to best mushy in a CM war. Not something anyone else can do.

Just gonna make a quick post on your comment on the imprison set, while it is a fine piece of innovation for beating Musharna, you lose pretty much every time to any Dark-type. Which can be an issue and means you need to get rid of the Dark-type before you can even attempt a sweep, on top of that you need to have surprise which if you're using this on the ladder is gone after like your first 5 battles. I don't think the imprison set should factor into Uxie's climb to S rank as that set isn't enough for me personally to see Uxie in S. That being said I think Uxie can be an S rank mon from other arguments, I just disagree with that it should be S rank from the imprison set.

"LAST UPDATE: October 19th"

O.o can we get a more recent update plz XD

That link was not up to date, I forgot to switch it to the most recent update when I last edited it, it now goes to the last one which was October 30th. As far as an update goes one should be coming fairly shortly.

 

[soulgazer]

ok i said i was gonna take one last look to the rankings before updating this (i might include stuff that I already posted about, im too lazy to check)

Uxie and Kanga in S

Ferroseed A-

Dragalge A-

Sceptile to A+

Scyther to A

Granbull to B- / C+

Why is Gogoat D+? make it C-

Monferno D+

Garbodor should probably even be A.

Electivire should be B-

why is linoone B-? drop that shit to C+

Grumpig should drop. Its good but only really work on Stall which has A LOT of options to handle fire spam

Probopass is not that good, put it in B- or even C+

Kricketune and Leavanny to C+

Vivillon is a hard case for me. Its good, really good, but 95% of the time Scyther works better over it because Scyther can actually take hits and switch on stuff.. Vivillon can't really. I would drop it to B+ (its like Golem vs Rhydon: Golem isnt bad at all, heck its quite good, but Rhydon exist).

should be everything

Zebraiken lets try to update this tomorrow imo

 

[Teddeh]

Typhlosion S ---> A+

Musharna B+ ---> A-

Scyther B- ---> A-

Uxie A+ ---> S

Just a few of my thoughts, not going to go into too much detail.
After using typh, i can see why he's a threat, but there are plenty of switch ins and it takes work to ware them down and it takes a lot of thought. Not quite as mindless as sigilyph was or how versatile mesprit was, I think it should go to A+ since it's very good, but not quite S rank material.

Musharna getting promoted, i've been preaching it for a while and it's an amazing mon in the tier right now and can fit on every balance team, it can fit on trick room, you can switch in comfortably on all psychic types and since it beats every calm mind user in the tier and beats most things unless it's a defensive steel type with roar or leech seed i.e defensive steelix or ferroseed or a dark type by which you can run dazzling gleam to take em by surprise. I completely agree with the rise of mushy to A-. like my original post :L

Scyther's a bulky ass, versatile threat. Deserves a lot more appreciation than where it's at in the viabilities. A- is where I would put it.

Now uxie... this mon is versatile, hella bulky and the sub cm set is dangerous... however, i'm not entirely convinced it should be S? I mean, it just lacks that little extra power, when you can have extreme bulk with mediocre power or more power but a lot less bulk... It just doesn't quite cut it for me. I feel like mesprit or musharna even does it better. Since musharna is basically just as bulky, more powerful and has reliable recovery where as mesprit has more power, similar speed (i know base 80 isn't 95 but most uxie's don't run speed) and the same versatility, i just feel it's outclassed a little. By all means a very versatile and dangerous mon if it has the right moves, but i just feel like it's not really all that threatening. By all means an A+ mon, but i'm not as convinced as everyone else who seems to think it should just go straight to S. I mean, I never fear it on team preview >.> (inb4 people go ahead and mention imprison or some bs)

 

[jake]

Zebraiken lets try to update this tomorrow imo

We're gonna update that, then refocus discussion on ORAS since that shit comes out the day after too. We'll hold off on all major changes until we have a workable tier, then come back and rework the rankings from top to bottom (afaik). I don't mind us discussing viability shifts in the meantime, but keep in mind we won't physically make changes until the big picture gets clearer.

 

[Ares]

(inb4 people go ahead and mention imprison or some bs)

http://spo.ink/imprison


But actually I can see Musharna raising to A- just because of how good of a late game wincon it is. It beats Uxie an Xatu most of the time lol and can provide support by pivoting. I was against A- originally but after playing against it more I can see the rise.

 

[Teddeh]

http://spo.ink/imprison


But actually I can see Musharna raising to A- just because of how good of a late game wincon it is. It beats Uxie an Xatu most of the time lol and can provide support by pivoting. I was against A- originally but after playing against it more I can see the rise.

I get to say it...
I told you so

 

[marilli]

Yo while I agree with the general gist of your argument, most Uxies actually run a ton of speed. You know all those Uxies that get 3HKOed by your Archeops Acrobatics? They're all running non-max HP investment and run enough speed with Timid nature to bypass the whole Adamant Kanga - Jolly Sawk range. IIRC the main spread even aims to outrun Timid non-scarf Rotom, and even the slowest Calm Mind spreads run Timid nature so the speed differential is pretty significant. Of course it's nearly irrelevant if all of your members are super slow with a few fastmons tacked on, though.

 

[pancake]

In my opinion, Garbodar---->A-

Reasoning: Garbodar is far and above the best toxic spikes and spikes stacker in the entire tier, besides accelgor, who is OK at spikes, and Ferroseed, which is not as fast as Garbodar, and doesn't get toxic spikes. Not just having great typing in mono-poison, having stab gunk shot, and also access to black sludge which can nullify trick/switcheroo, unlike ferroseed, but it also gets a great ability in aftermath and not as bad bulk as accelgor at 80/82/82. For that reason, I thin Garbodar should be promoted to A-.

EDIT: You guys also might have to think about Pangoro, because of Knock Off, Drain Punch, and Gunk Shot from the ORAS tutors. But that's speculation. lol that sounded like I was selling something

 

[Dentricos]

Just a few of my thoughts, not going to go into too much detail.
After using typh, i can see why he's a threat, but there are plenty of switch ins and it takes work to ware them down and it takes a lot of thought. Not quite as mindless as sigilyph was or how versatile mesprit was, I think it should go to A+ since it's very good, but not quite S rank material.

Musharna getting promoted, i've been preaching it for a while and it's an amazing mon in the tier right now and can fit on every balance team, it can fit on trick room, you can switch in comfortably on all psychic types and since it beats every calm mind user in the tier and beats most things unless it's a defensive steel type with roar or leech seed i.e defensive steelix or ferroseed or a dark type by which you can run dazzling gleam to take em by surprise. I completely agree with the rise of mushy to A-. like my original post :L

Scyther's a bulky ass, versatile threat. Deserves a lot more appreciation than where it's at in the viabilities. A- is where I would put it.

Now uxie... this mon is versatile, hella bulky and the sub cm set is dangerous... however, i'm not entirely convinced it should be S? I mean, it just lacks that little extra power, when you can have extreme bulk with mediocre power or more power but a lot less bulk... It just doesn't quite cut it for me. I feel like mesprit or musharna even does it better. Since musharna is basically just as bulky, more powerful and has reliable recovery where as mesprit has more power, similar speed (i know base 80 isn't 95 but most uxie's don't run speed) and the same versatility, i just feel it's outclassed a little. By all means a very versatile and dangerous mon if it has the right moves, but i just feel like it's not really all that threatening. By all means an A+ mon, but i'm not as convinced as everyone else who seems to think it should just go straight to S. I mean, I never fear it on team preview >.> (inb4 people go ahead and mention imprison or some bs.

You quoted sir kay who was quoting me O.o

Now in terms of Soulgazer's suggestions I will quickly post my thoughts.

Ferroseed A ---> A-

Yeah I agree with sg. I almost wanted to post this mon myself but I had doubts people would support the request again lol

Dragalge B ---> B-

Kanga A+ No Change

Scyther B- ---> B / B+ / C-

Not sure where this should go tbh. But it is sooo good XD

Granbull B+ No Change

I know you talked about how little u think this fits on teams but for me it's the opposite. I love a good response to fighting types with heal bell. If I can't run plume this is a gr8 option.

Gogoat D+ ---> C-

Electivire B ---> B-

Linoone B- ---> C+

Kricke + Leava B- ---> C+

Been saying this for awhile XD

Probopass B No Change

I speak as some1 who struggles against this mon because of what it can do to ninetales. I might be biased tho...

Vivillon A- ---> B+

Garbodor B+ ---> A-

 

[Pooch13]

Lol trying to drop typh 2 weeks after you moved it to S rank because "it had no switch ins to specs typh and had blaze fire blasts". Saw it coming.
Kanga on the other hand is a great mon that you can slap on any team and 90 percent of the time it ll be a pain to deal with or a latemgame sweeper. It can run almost any item and be functnal,AV,LO, lum, lefties with sub PuP, silk scarf and has drain punch too and nice bulk paired with only one weakness. Agree with it moving up.

Plume could move up too but the issue is thst if i recall correctly it dropped to B because the things it checked starred running coverage to deal with it, also thing like swellow and scyther have not much trouble setting up and can be a trouble for your entire team if your physical walls cant handle them. Most of the time plume needs to be paired with something like grumpig who resists 3/4 of his weaknessess or something like klinklang who resists 3 as well. Agree to A-.