I do agree with our Lord Helix moving up, but right now we're only discussing anything currently in A and A- ranks.I really wanted to bring this up, with ORAS introducing mega swampert, rain have gotten another tool to play with. In XY most rainteams consisted of the two rain sweepers, kabutops and kingdra, but in ORAS Swampert is almost a stable on rain teams this generation, and this oobviouslymean we have to let go of a slot to fit it in. If we where to let kabutops go, we woI think Omastar is swamperts best partner on rain teams, as it can check talonflame, thanks to its typing and better defence (compared to kingdra) while also being a special attaker (comparing it to kabutops) which means it can still switch into will-oh-wisps from stuff such as mew and sableye, which gives swampert problems.
Omastar B ---> B+
Omastar is a bit slower than kingdra, however its speed is just enough to outspeed the entire unboosted and almost the whole scarfed meta under the rain, with a timid nature it have just enough speed to outspeed scarfed lando-T. It also have slightly higher special attack than kingdra. I think that is enough positive threats to justify it moving up to the other rain sweepers.
Rapid spin. They lose hazards, you keep hazards. Not saying it shouldn't drop, but last time I checked there were no other rapid spinners with OU usage. If you want to lay spikes you'd better bring this guy, or build a team around Tentacruel.A ----> A-
We don't need this thing. Sure, it has a decent Attack and Choice Scarf usability, but what does it REALLY do anymore?
Bulky Starmie and Tentacruel are both better Rapid Spinners in the ORAS metagame if you ask me.
Don't forget Starmie, who's actually really solid now.
Salamence, so if Pinsir really does belong in B, Medicham does as well. Heracross was hit seemingly less hard, since neither Lop nor Gallade directly outclasses it. However, in this current metagame, why would I use a mon with 185 and 75 speed when I could use a mon with 165 attack and 110 Speed OR a mon with 136 attack and 135 Speed? Fighting/Rock/Bug Coverage isn't anything special, since stuff like Doublade 100% walls it. Lopunny doesn't have to worry about this, since with 2 moves it gets unresisted coverage. It is significantly weaker, but atm a) stall is based around Mega Sableye, something Lopunny easily kills, and b) offense is really popular, and Lopunny fairs much better against it thanks to outspeeding everything except Sceptile, Beedrill, Dactyl, and Zam. Then you throw SD Gallade into the mix, and reasons for using Hera further diminish. I'm feeling B+ for it, but I'm not sure, since I'd rather use most stuff over it. Terrakion still has Stealth Rock to boast, as well as the ability to a) hold items, and b) be used with a mega, so it was definitely hit the least hard. However, if you were using it for anything other than a SR Sash lead, it's basically a worse Lopunny/Gallade. This probably fits best in A-, but then again, Manaphy, Jirachi, and Politoed are all a lot better than it.
Mamoswine doesn't have Taunt though which does come into play against stuff like Skarmory or Mew. If you want to keep rocks away at all costs then Terrakion is the optimal choice. Justified is another thing that comes into play with Knock Off being so common. So I wouldn't say that Terrakion is necessarily outclassed. But it's true that it's not as good as it could be with everybody using scarfed Landorus-T and what not.
Terrakion and Mega Heracross are fine for A-, but not any lower. As others mentioned, Mega Heracross is more effective than ever against stall teams, with Doublade and Gliscor dropping in usage, and it by far outperforms the new Fighting MEvos when it comes to stallbreaking, namely Mega Gallade and Mega Lopunny. Even if the stall team is using Mega Altaria with max HP / max Def+, +2 Adamant Heracross deals 75% damage minimum with Rock Blast, an OHKO with a tiny bit of previous damage or two SR rounds.Don't forget Starmie, who's actually really solid now.
Anyway I've definitely been convinced that thanks to Lopunny + Gallade, Terrakion, Heracross, and Medicham are significantly worse. Medicham was hit the worst, since it really is just a niche variation of Gallade. It isn't bad by any means, but what does it have over Gallade? I guess it 2hkos unaware clefable (gallade can too w/ poison jab...), but that's certainly not enough to keep it A. In my head, I see Medicham
Most of those Pokemon you mentioned outright lose to Iron Defense / Calm Mind / Scald / Slack Off with max HP / max SpD. Not to mention that any physical attacker is crippled if Scald burns on the switch. There are very few hard counters to this set and if you don't bring in the right checks quickly enough you have a very good chance to get outright swept by it. Plus all the defensive utility it bring to a team, which make me think it's worthy of A+ rank.Talpr0ne said:
Small nitpick, but do you mean Mega Gallade and Mega Lopunny, since Mega Medicham has been here for the entirety of XY?
Yes, fixed.
The fact that you have Magnezone means that those megas don't have to run otherwise inferior moves just to beat steels. If the standard Mence for example set wants to run EQ or FB over sub, it leaves itself more vulnerable to status. It's not that they can't beat steels, it's that if they let Mag do it for them they can run better sets. Having Mag on your team is like giving something on your team an extra moveslot, and it's not like it's only useful as a trapper. It has great special attack, reasonable bulk, and the scarf set is a good pivot. And being able to force two of the best defensive Pokes in the tier to run shed shell over leftovers or rocky helmet is pretty nifty too. Magnezone makes things on yor team better, and it makes things that wall things on your team worse. Magnezone isn't some all powerful god that beats all steel types and lets you automatically win with your mega, but it's absolutely something that makes most offensive teams better and I think that makes it worthy of A.
My problem with Magenzone is that I find it slightly underwhelming when my opponent doesnt have a steel I want to trap, not a complete dead weight, but close. I get that it can be a nice pivot and decent answer to bird spam, but its note quite on the level of other A rank pokemon. Also, Ferrothorn and Skarmory running a shed shell isn't a good thing for mag, its bad because it means they have adapted.
This is definitely true. I've used Magnezone frequently on teams that don't even necessarily need Steels gone just for its set of resistances and bulk. Just because its main purpose is trapping Steels doesn't mean that it can't have utility outside of that role.
The problem with this first statement, is that the moves I mentioned are standards amongst them. They're not lures to hit what Magnezone is intended to take out by any extent and are common variants you see in the meta right now so no Magnezone doesn't actually provide any real sort of relief in terms of teambuilding constraints. That's the thing with the Shed Shell Variant. If the meta is adapting more towards it that's not necessarily grounds that it's more viable. Shed Shell Ferrothorn is the perfect example of how Magnezone can just lose momentum with a simple protect for scouting, switch into immunity, which are commonly found on defensive and balanced builds pair with Ferrothorn. Magnezone has to rely on prediction games to successfully pull off and to me I don't find that very consistent when your average team has a resist to every single one of its moves and viable ground types such as Lando-T to just stop Volt Switching in its track. As far as the Knock Off thing you mentioned right before this goes, that's generally true, but why are you building a team with just these as your answer to Knock Off? I'm not saying Magnezone is bad I'm just saying when you compare it, at least in my eyes, to mons such as Ferrothorn and Mamoswine, these mons have much more consistency on the archetypes they are found on. Every positive trait is justifiable to keep it at A- I can agree and accept those positive traits but moving Magnezone based on the notion that it always provides momentum and somehow puts an extreme pressure on teambuilds I can't agree with.
