If SR isn't on the field, it has a good chance of living two Low Kicks. Of course, this assumes that Greninja runs Low Kick and predicts the switch.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Too be fair, a Low Kick Greninja user is going to know why you have an Empoleon and shouldn't have a hard time predicting you to come in. It's pretty much a lure.
Its a great mon and has an excellent role in being able to counter Gren, but does that really make it worthy enough to move up past the likes of Rhyperior and the other mons residing in B+ rank? Rhyperior has a damn good role in countering birdspam but it is currently in B+ rank (although it has been mentioned of moving up possibly) so I don't really see how Empoleon in its role is able to leapfrog him when they share similar ailments (can be beaten around by a specific move or set and lack of reliable recovery).
Don't get me wrong I think he can move up, just not that high.
Hackers ripped all the sprites.
I added all the new Mega Pokemon Sprites. Thanks for linking, Flare Blitzle.
Rhyperior doesn't have Defog and cannot phase nor burn opposing Pokemon. Also, Empoleon can even check Salamence-Mega, as the physically bulky set will never be OHKOed by +1 MegaMence EQ (and yes, I realize Rhyperior can check MegaMence as well). You can replace an auxiliary move with Ice Beam to ensure it beats MegaMence (as I've edited my original post to mention). Finally, Rhyperior is x4 weak to water and grass. With water moves omnipresent, and Pokemon like Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur popular, Rhyperior struggles to come in much of the time. Empoleon's typing allows it to switch into most of the Pokemon in the metagame.
Most Manaphy sets don't run Psychic, as there is not enough room. Were they to run it, they'd lose coverage on another threat.
Venusaur has dropped a lot in usage and effectiveness lately, as shown by it having UU usage in ORAS in October (1.12791%) and dropping from A+ to A in this thread. Amoonguss similarly has dropped in usage lately, only getting 1.83755% last month. I recognize that these stats are heavily influenced by "new-toy-syndrome," but it definitely is more than that. Metagross, Gallade, Salamence, and Latias are all brand new megas that really hurt Venu and Amoonguss' effectiveness, hence why Manaphy doesn't even really need to run Psychic any more. Energy Ball is just a lot more helpful for hitting Mega Slowbro, Rotom-W, etc.
I get that several new Megas are making life difficult for the bulky Grass / Poisons, I was just confused by Reverb's statement that Mega Venusaur / Amoonguss are still popular, which they don't seem to be. The greatest value I see the bulky Grass / Poisons having is walling Mega Diancie, but outside of that...
I don't mean to make a long post right now, but the standard Manaphy set is Tail Glow / Rain Dance / Scald / Psychic precisely because Scald in rain breaks through pretty much everything, and covering Mega Venusaur/Amoonguss is the most important thing besides those. Yeah you can change the coverage if they're less popular, but I seriously doubt you have that much experience facing or using this Pokemon if you haven't seen Psychic.
Mega Venu is in a very... weird spot right now. Someone earlier put it perfectly, but I can't look right now. Basically, half the new Megas (Gallade, Metagross, Mence, Lati@s) make it's life miserable, but on the other hand it handles Swampert, Sceptile, Altaria, Diancie, and Lopunny well in one slot. Aragorn the King I do think that Mega Mence has a direct impact on Mega Venusaur's usage. It's tough to predict what might fill the usage gap that Mence creates, but Gallade won't see nearly the same usage and the Latis were already a problem for it and they aren't going to become more of one. Being weak to and naturally outsped by one of the most OP things OU has every seen is very bad for it's usage. I'd bet it's usage stats rebound after the Mence ban, because Mega Venusaur is the biggest loser in the Mence meta by a distance.
Yeah that can be said for the majority of the tier in terms of viability of what's gotten worse or better based off of one single mon. I could see Empoleon being at B+ cause it does provide some traits that Reverb has mentioned along with some very anti-meta defensive aspects which can be utilized in a fantastic way. A- is just way too hasty and high and I think is a bit much on a defensive mon that lacks reliable recovery, something that the majority of the defensive mons of the A category have access to and as such should be considered.
I've seen Ice Beam over Psychic much more lately, so as to hit Lati@s and other dragons (along with Amoonguss). I misspoke when I said that Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur were popular. I meant that they were relatively common.
Why is p2 not up there in B at least? It counters/checks M-Mence/Greninja/miscellaneous sp.attacker and that in itself is a notable niche also yes I do have replays to show how effective it is
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182663337
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182708810
the first one is especially relevant in how it survives literally everything thrownm at it. I do get its dependent on its iotem but so are many other mons!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182663337
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182708810
the first one is especially relevant in how it survives literally everything thrownm at it. I do get its dependent on its iotem but so are many other mons!
no I'm just saying that P2 takes an awful amount of punishment and can really be tailored to the type of team that it needs! Like in that game I had HP:Fire/T-Bolt/Ice Beam/Recover because I had a big Scizor/Ferro weak; It is the ultimate bulky glue...I'd say its kind of like XY AVest Azu in that I can just tooss it onto a team and expect it to check/counter a few things :D
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Agreed. Porygon2 is also doing wonders for me as it can come in on (for example) Heatran (SpD can't touch it bar roaring it out) Greninja (protean boltbeam) Thundurus (prankster recovery) and Landorus-T (intimidate)
The Discharge / Ice Beam / Toxic / Recover set is very cool and Porygon2 is impossible to kill in some games. I do agree C rank is a bit low for him but at the moment it's best to discuss things in the A- / B+ tier like Celebi and Magnezone (not saying they need to move up or down, just giving some examples)
It's not really opportunity cost when you're choosing to use a good mega over another good mega. Opportunity cost is when you're using something inferior which prevents you from using something superior, such as not being able to use the fantastic Thundurus-I if you're using the sub-par Thundurus-T.
Fair enough thanks for bringing the calcs for me and I never thought of Weavile and Mamoswine :p the thought hthat crossed my mind was the new Dragon Megas and how Cloyster can annoy them, one moretime thanks for showing the calcs :D :D
Even then they could still run psychic if that ever became a problem for it.
Yeah a very common set for mega diancie is CM/psyshock/moonblast/earth power, and venusaur and amoongus are actually both set up fodder for mega diancie, so I dont see where you are coming from.
As for empoleon I really dont see moving it up all the way to A-, but I think B+ is perfect for him. I mean I know you used him really well Reverb on the ladder but I think that speaks more to your skill opposed to empoleon's lol. My main reasons are empoleon doesnt have any recovery and if his plan is to roar something out, I think a decent opponent would expect that and just go for damage on empoleon while remaining relatively unscathed. Also he is weak to 3 common types like electric,ground, and fighting and although he could probably tank 1 hit, he could only retaliate by hoping for a scald burn or roaring them out. Then there is the increase in magnezone to worry about which has no problem just trapping and killing it. But Idk, now that I think about it more I guess I wouldnt mind seeing him in A-, but I am still leaning on the B+ side mainly because of the lack of recovery, and I dont like empoleons matchup against sableye stall, and I guess lastly I would just like to say that I think scald is the main reason he is even being considered for A- rank, and it would be the sole reason he gets it. That move is just something else man, but yeah I think empoleon might find himself hoping for hax too much, because even against ground threats scald won't do enough damage and he will just be hoping for the burn. But yeah these are just my thoughts..
Edit: setup fodder is a bit too strong, I mean that if one of them switches into diancies Calm Mind then she will have no problem either setting up another one, or just going for the kill
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Explosion, GG Chansey.
Well obviously the problem with Mega Camerupt is speed, all its other stats are excellent. That's why you shouldn't use Mega Camerupt outside of Trick Room teams where its only serious weakness becomes an advantage. Before you say "Oh I can use it outside of Trick Room": No. It becomes a million times better in TR, it's not particularly good outside of it and there's countless better Mega's to use if you're not going to use it in Trick Room. You don't just slap Kabutops on a non-rain team either. "Any holes it opens up in stall are healed off" one this is not always true, two that's the idea of stall. You could say that about almost every pokemon.
Also I just noticed, how is a special wallbreaker going to break through Chansey if it's not Keldeo? I highly doubt that "practically any other special wallbreaker" could do over 45% to Chansey in one hit. You're just trying to make Mega Camerupt look weak when it clearly isn't...
(that said, it's fine in B rank afaic)
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