Almost Any Ability ORAS

[Bisharbash]

While the server is down, figured I'd finally start posting. Anyone have any luck in AAA with Mold Breaker Charizard? With e-quake for levitate heatran, fire punch for FF scizor, ferrothorn, bisharp, etc.

Charizard @ Expert Belt
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Roost

can switch in on a fire or ground move and scare a lot of things out, giving it a chance to set up an SD, or just revenge kill wihtout a setup. just made it, needed more time to test, but... well...

 

[Grim]

While the server is down, figured I'd finally start posting. Anyone have any luck in AAA with Mold Breaker Charizard? With e-quake for levitate heatran, fire punch for FF scizor, ferrothorn, bisharp, etc.

Charizard @ Expert Belt
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Roost

can switch in on a fire or ground move and scare a lot of things out, giving it a chance to set up an SD, or just revenge kill wihtout a setup. just made it, needed more time to test, but... well...

Regular Charizard is honestly just bad. Its stats are only average, and it has a terrible 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks. The only way I can see Charizard being somewhat useful in AAA is with Magic Guard and a Life Orb, but Moltres kinda does that better. Swords Dance is probably also not the best set it can run, since its SpA is actually higher, and its Atk stat is low.

Its mega forms are actually really good though, so maybe you could try this out with Charizard-mega X?

 

[Throbulator36]

Regular Charizard is honestly just bad. Its stats are only average, and it has a terrible 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks. The only way I can see Charizard being somewhat useful in AAA is with Magic Guard and a Life Orb, but Moltres kinda does that better. Swords Dance is probably also not the best set it can run, since its SpA is actually higher, and its Atk stat is low.

Its mega forms are actually really good though, so maybe you could try this out with Charizard-mega X?

which has tough claws

 

[Bisharbash]

Regular Charizard is honestly just bad. Its stats are only average, and it has a terrible 4x weakness to Stealth Rocks. The only way I can see Charizard being somewhat useful in AAA is with Magic Guard and a Life Orb, but Moltres kinda does that better. Swords Dance is probably also not the best set it can run, since its SpA is actually higher, and its Atk stat is low.

Its mega forms are actually really good though, so maybe you could try this out with Charizard-mega X?

Right, rock removal is imperative, no doubt. I would say that it's a little less important in AAA than in most metagames, though. Pursuit Bisharp (my man!) on every team puts would-be spinblockers in trouble, and I think on the whole, common hazard-setters like Skarmory and Excadrill tend to move into other roles slightly more often than they do in say OU.

Still though, I agree. The rock weakness is crippling. Losing the Mold Breaker though wouldn't justify the mega evo though, imo. (Plus that would mean no Mega Venusaur. Can't have that!) Oh well, AAA is inherently a little bit of a laboratory, isn't it?

 

[Grim]

which has tough claws

Yeah. Something like regular Charizard with Magic Guard or Magnet Pull evolving into Charizard-mega X has the potential to be really good.

Right, rock removal is imperative, no doubt. I would say that it's a little less important in AAA than in most metagames, though. Pursuit Bisharp (my man!) on every team puts would-be spinblockers in trouble, and I think on the whole, common hazard-setters like Skarmory and Excadrill tend to move into other roles slightly more often than they do in say OU.

Still though, I agree. The rock weakness is crippling. Losing the Mold Breaker though wouldn't justify the mega evo though, imo. (Plus that would mean no Mega Venusaur. Can't have that!) Oh well, AAA is inherently a little bit of a laboratory, isn't it?

I'd say it's even more important than in most metagames because of how popular lead Deoxys-Speed is. Pursuit Bisharp does indeed deal nicely with most spinblockers though.

I don't think Mold Breaker justifies not using the mega evo. :s The mega's are just so much better than regular Zard. But if you already have Venusaur-mega than you can't run Charizard-mega as well yeah. And yes, it is. :)

 

[Throbulator36]

Yeah. Something like regular Charizard with Magic Guard or Magnet Pull evolving into Charizard-mega X has the potential to be really good.

the point was that he was posting a mold breaker set, not tough claws.

 

[Dark Mage Ewan]

the point was that he was posting a mold breaker set, not tough claws.

However that set is gimmicky and that regular zard is a waste of a slot, specially with how many solid Fire- and Flying-Types there are in AAA, from Magnet pull ape and Gale wing's users, even if they cannot pull the exact same set, still just a gimmick, and Mold Breaker Victini/ Infernape are better even without recovery because seriously zard isn't bulky that he can set up and roost on anything like Mega Zard X.

 

[Akumeoy]

I personally prefer using a scarfed Victini as my Mold Breaker of choice -- different niche entirely than a banded set or a utility set, but powerful fire and electric attacks mean that Flash Fire and Volt Absorb mons can't switch like they would want to. Doesn't really need to boost, either.

And on that note, Primordial Sea Genesect is something that I've seen used to great effect (and stolen and then used to great effect), and because I've not seen the set posted here, I'll share it:

Genesect @ Douse Drive
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs; 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- U-Turn/Ice Beam

Douse Drive is also un-trickable and can't be knocked off. Primordial Sea + 120BP water attack = Lazerbug. Thunder is perfectly accurate in the rain and gives great coverage, Bug Buzz is STAB that goes through substitutes, U-Turn lets you switch out with damage to special walls. Further, fire attacks are stopped by the rain, not the ability itself, so Mold Breaker can't override it. You lose the surprise factor of FF, but it's a much more reliable switch-in to fire-type users. EVs and IVs are basically self-explanatory, Genesect outspeeds more stuff with Timid than Modest and it doesn't want to take any more hits than it has to.

Further discussion question: Magic Guard Clefable is great in standard OU, even with Clefable's crap stats. Now that anything can use Magic Guard, has anyone found a viable user of a similar set in AAA? Deoxys-D has the movepool and defenses necessary, but it has fucking terrible typing. It seems like every OU mon with CM and recovery is Psychic-type except Clefable; meanwhile, nothing worthwhile that we can use gets Bulk Up and recovery.

Additional question: I've been running a Regenerator spam team to mixed success (I get about two misplays before the game becomes unwinnable). Does anybody else have experience with this playstyle? Good mons/cores to use for it?

And one final point: Putting Trick on PH walls lets you steal some Leftovers and toxic something through their Magic Bounce, but you risk getting an Assault Vest or a Choice item if you're not careful, and it's a slot you don't get to use for another move. Mixed success on my Curse PH Cofagrigus.

 

[Throbulator36]

magic guard infernape has all three recovery and bulk up/calm mind.

 

[Pagoose]

I personally prefer using a scarfed Victini as my Mold Breaker of choice -- different niche entirely than a banded set or a utility set, but powerful fire and electric attacks mean that Flash Fire and Volt Absorb mons can't switch like they would want to. Doesn't really need to boost, either.

And on that note, Primordial Sea Genesect is something that I've seen used to great effect (and stolen and then used to great effect), and because I've not seen the set posted here, I'll share it:

Genesect @ Douse Drive
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs; 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- U-Turn/Ice Beam

Douse Drive is also un-trickable and can't be knocked off. Primordial Sea + 120BP water attack = Lazerbug. Thunder is perfectly accurate in the rain and gives great coverage, Bug Buzz is STAB that goes through substitutes, U-Turn lets you switch out with damage to special walls. Further, fire attacks are stopped by the rain, not the ability itself, so Mold Breaker can't override it. You lose the surprise factor of FF, but it's a much more reliable switch-in to fire-type users. EVs and IVs are basically self-explanatory, Genesect outspeeds more stuff with Timid than Modest and it doesn't want to take any more hits than it has to.

Further discussion question: Magic Guard Clefable is great in standard OU, even with Clefable's crap stats. Now that anything can use Magic Guard, has anyone found a viable user of a similar set in AAA? Deoxys-D has the movepool and defenses necessary, but it has fucking terrible typing. It seems like every OU mon with CM and recovery is Psychic-type except Clefable; meanwhile, nothing worthwhile that we can use gets Bulk Up and recovery.

Additional question: I've been running a Regenerator spam team to mixed success (I get about two misplays before the game becomes unwinnable). Does anybody else have experience with this playstyle? Good mons/cores to use for it?

And one final point: Putting Trick on PH walls lets you steal some Leftovers and toxic something through their Magic Bounce, but you risk getting an Assault Vest or a Choice item if you're not careful, and it's a slot you don't get to use for another move. Mixed success on my Curse PH Cofagrigus.

In regards to good bulk up users, as bad as it might sound, talonflame is actually a good user. I once accidently used an ou team in aaa and I swept a guy with bulk up wisp talonflame. I think that it might actually be the only good bulk up users, because of how common burns are and talonflame's immunity to burns. Talonflame also has will-o-wisp or taunt, and reliable recovery in roost. This is probably also why conkeldurr was the only good bulk up user in gen 5, thanks to pseudo burn-immunity and semi-reliable recovery in drain punch. (There might be others, I only started playing a few months before xy so I was a noob in gen 5.) Also fyi, on defensive pokemon magic guard is mostly outclassed by poison heal unless you are weak to stealth rocks, as it grants status immunity and better recovery.

 

[Akumeoy]

magic guard infernape has all three recovery and bulk up/calm mind.

I originally didn't consider it due to its relatively poor defensive stats and Brave Bird weakness (reliably OHKOed by Sharp Beak Staraptor even at +2 Def, it gets worse with banded or boosted anything), but given that one should generally have a way to take out birds regardless, it might actually be worth looking into.

In regards to good bulk up users, as bad as it might sound, talonflame is actually a good user. I once accidently used an ou team in aaa and I swept a guy with bulk up wisp talonflame. I think that it might actually be the only good bulk up users, because of how common burns are and talonflame's immunity to burns. Talonflame also has will-o-wisp or taunt, and reliable recovery in roost. This is probably also why conkeldurr was the only good bulk up user in gen 5, thanks to pseudo burn-immunity and semi-reliable recovery in drain punch. (There might be others, I only started playing a few months before xy so I was a noob in gen 5.) Also fyi, on defensive pokemon magic guard is mostly outclassed by poison heal unless you are weak to stealth rocks, as it grants status immunity and better recovery.

That is interesting (both Talonflame and the PH preference). Good to know!

 

[FlameUser64]

I personally prefer using a scarfed Victini as my Mold Breaker of choice -- different niche entirely than a banded set or a utility set, but powerful fire and electric attacks mean that Flash Fire and Volt Absorb mons can't switch like they would want to. Doesn't really need to boost, either.

And on that note, Primordial Sea Genesect is something that I've seen used to great effect (and stolen and then used to great effect), and because I've not seen the set posted here, I'll share it:

Genesect @ Douse Drive
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs; 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- U-Turn/Ice Beam

Douse Drive is also un-trickable and can't be knocked off. Primordial Sea + 120BP water attack = Lazerbug. Thunder is perfectly accurate in the rain and gives great coverage, Bug Buzz is STAB that goes through substitutes, U-Turn lets you switch out with damage to special walls. Further, fire attacks are stopped by the rain, not the ability itself, so Mold Breaker can't override it. You lose the surprise factor of FF, but it's a much more reliable switch-in to fire-type users. EVs and IVs are basically self-explanatory, Genesect outspeeds more stuff with Timid than Modest and it doesn't want to take any more hits than it has to.

Nice to know that my Genesect has been making the rounds! I suppose U-turn and Ice Beam would both be better options than what I'd been using. I'd been trying for Modest with Rock Polish, but ultimately almost never got a chance to set up at all and their switch-in usually threatened by walling me hard rather than by outspeeding, so U-turn is probably the better choice just because it lets you come in again later more easily, and Ice Beam is good coverage as well.

On a similar note, I just had a thought: Magic Guard + Life Orb Victini? While lacking both Mold Breaker and the sheer smiting power of a Band or the speed of a Scarf, you gain the utility of being able to switch moves at will and being able to come in on Stealth Rock for free, meaning the foe can't simply set SR and count on having put Victini on a timer. It also becomes effectively immune to Toxic, which works out quite nicely since it's already immune to Burn. Plus, I have a distinct feeling it would seriously take the foe by surprise. Plus, a Life Orb boost hidden by Magic Guard looks distinctly similar to a Tough Claws boost, so they may think you're Scarfed if you repeatedly come in on slower things.

Edit: Another workable set with Magic Guard + Life Orb Victini might be to run Adamant instead of Jolly. While the decrease in speed can prove disadvantageous, the damage output of Adamant Life Orb is only slightly less than that of Jolly Choice Band. Since the opponent will likely assume Victini is Jolly (as it almost always is), they're unlikely to switch anything in that falls between positive-nature max investment base 100 and neutral-nature max investment base 100, at least until either you show them your trump card (actually switching moves instead of pretending to be Banded, or taking no damage from Toxic/Curse/Leech Seed/Confusion/Stealth Rock/Sandstorm) or they get desperate.

The main problem with this is that the foe will immediately know you aren't Mold Breaker, Air Lock/Cloud Nine, Drought, or Desolate Land, and as soon as you attack your lack of Tough Claws becomes apparent if they know what they're looking for.

 

[aesf]

So, uh, mega salamence is in the tier now.

I can see things like regenrock and intimidate zapdos being more popular than ever. Thoughts?

 

[Throbulator36]

So, uh, mega salamence is in the tier now.

I can see things like regenrock and intimidate zapdos being more popular than ever. Thoughts?

nonono. regiolite magneton.

 

[Klang]

So, uh, mega salamence is in the tier now.

I can see things like regenrock and intimidate zapdos being more popular than ever. Thoughts?

For the tiny duration that it's allowed, probably.

 

[canno]

I don't know if its worth dropping Intimidate or some other great ability, but you could run Refrigerate on Mence so that pre-mega can smack Zapdos really hard with a 132~ Ice-type attack. Admittingly it doesn't do much outside of that, but it could be a thing maybe.

 

[Pagoose]

Are we going to quickbanning mence? Because honestly, I'm not completely sure if its broken in aaa. There is so much gale wings users and extreme speed spam that offense can handle it, and on the defensive side we have things like poison heal regirock's and unaware hippowdon's. I faced one earlier and actually used it as setup fodder for my sd skarmory, which was pretty funny. I'm not as convinced its broken as I previously was.

P.S. Don't use electrify heliolisk guys... its trash cant even ohko snorlax at +6 LOL and gets wrecked by any priority.

 

[Klang]

Are we going to quickbanning mence?

Probably not, but OU will be, and I doubt anyone will be contesting the decision to unban it in AAA.

There is so much gale wings users and extreme speed spam that offense can handle it, and on the defensive side we have things like poison heal regirock's and unaware hippowdon's. I faced one earlier and actually used it as setup fodder for my sd skarmory, which was pretty funny. I'm not as convinced its broken as I previously was.

While Regirock can stop the physical set, it and a few other rock types are the only real things that can take it head on. Damagecalc is down so I can't post calcs yet, but Fire Blast will probably OHKO your skarmory while +1 Return will do a huge chunk to Hippowdon if it's not intimidate while the hippo can...roar back? And don't forget Salamence has base 130 defense which is freaking huge, which means the only gale wings users that are really able to revenge it are the banded ones, and the only espeed users being able to revenge it are refridgerate (which is very uncommon compared to tough claws). All of the counters to the physical set are crushed by the special set, by the way. The thing gets hyper voice and base 120 special attack so it's not like it can't go mixed/fully special. It's just completely and utterly broken.

 

[FlameUser64]

Are we going to quickbanning mence? Because honestly, I'm not completely sure if its broken in aaa. There is so much gale wings users and extreme speed spam that offense can handle it, and on the defensive side we have things like poison heal regirock's and unaware hippowdon's. I faced one earlier and actually used it as setup fodder for my sd skarmory, which was pretty funny. I'm not as convinced its broken as I previously was.

P.S. Don't use electrify heliolisk guys... its trash cant even ohko snorlax at +6 LOL and gets wrecked by any priority.

To be completely fair I was using the mono-attacking bulky dragon dance set. Obviously doesn't work so well in AAA.

And by the way that was significantly less funny from my perspective, considering your entire team was able to easily wall my entire team, and that Skarmory just used anything that wasn't Victini for setup fodder. And somehow, I had it in my head that my team was actually decent. Pfft. I'm a joke.

 

[aesf]

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Delta Stream
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Substitute

I think Salamence's main buff came in the form of delta stream. Since delta stream is permanent until you switch out...
1) Frustration's power is boosted by 1.5X, giving you a ~300 BP move to spam.
2) Now you finally don't die to a simple ice shard! Or any electric types for that matter. Roosting up on weak rock attacks and electric attacks really helps.
3) Drought and Drizzle users can't get up their weather anymore, due to the power of delta stream.

Oh, and those counters you were talking about? Regirock? Zapdos? Did I mention that mence can literally use these "counters" as set-up fodder? It's not like your wimpy HP Ice or rock slide is doing much against this thing. In fact, in order to successfully counter this, you have to be able to phase it, or tank 2 hits and pressure it back, so the counters are pretty much limited to Aegislash, Doublade, and Skarmory. I can see this thing being banned.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Delta Stream
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Roost
- Substitute

I think Salamence's main buff came in the form of delta stream. Since delta stream is permanent until you switch out...
1) Frustration's power is boosted by 1.5X, giving you a ~300 BP move to spam.
2) Now you finally don't die to a simple ice shard! Or any electric types for that matter. Roosting up on weak rock attacks and electric attacks really helps.
3) Drought and Drizzle users can't get up their weather anymore, due to the power of delta stream.

Oh, and those counters you were talking about? Regirock? Zapdos? Did I mention that mence can literally use these "counters" as set-up fodder? It's not like your wimpy HP Ice or rock slide is doing much against this thing. In fact, in order to successfully counter this, you have to be able to phase it, or tank 2 hits and pressure it back, so the counters are pretty much limited to Aegislash, Doublade, and Skarmory. I can see this thing being banned.

Delta Stream does not power up flying type moves

 

[Throbulator36]

did I hear somebody say... air lock bandoswine.

 

[asterat]

Salamencite is banned. It's ridiculous and there is absolutely no reason to allow it.

Tagging The Immortal to update on PS.

On a happier note, we now have lots of cool stuff to play with in AAA thanks to ORAS. What sets do you think will dominate? Personally, I really want to try out Desolate Land! It gives a water immunity and boosts fire attacks. One particularly cool abuser is Camerupt, who can use it in tandem with Sheer Force fire blasts to wreak havoc.

 

[Throbulator36]

desolate land mega swampert is lol.

 

[FutureDoc]

I have been using this set for Thundurus with huge success. It works kinda like the popular gengar set, but can tear through suicune and catch chansey with superpower. Almost everything I have experienced is ohko or an easy 2hko. Thundurus can also take 1-2 hits from bird spam and retaliate

Thundurus Life Orb
Thunderbolt/Thunder
Sludge Wave/Focus Blast
Superpower
Hidden Power Ice
EVs: 4atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty
Ability: Sheer Force