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OPEN DISCUSSION - Gym Concerns and Issues
- Thread starter Texas Cloverleaf
- Start date
One thing is johning (or if you prefer the politically correct version: being too busy to post on DQ but still posts someday). Another is disappearing completely. Neither is particularly acceptable, but the latter is much worse than the former. Leet is/was the latter, while geo/pwne are the former, so a different treatment for both is justifiable.
BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I WANT TO DISCUSS.
I don't mean to sound cocky or anything, but maybe it would be nice to consider preparations for finishing the Gym League. By "finishing" I mean:
a) Schedule a day for Flying qualifiers (and Dragon and Fighting too somewhat?). Even if it is like 9 months away. The mere fact that you say "qualifiers will be X" will speed up training and the results as well. And honestly, qualifiers are taking FOREVER so maybe it would be wise to get things started soonish or else the leaders will be nominated by the time Gen 8th is remixed.
b) Revisit the prizes for bagdes, considering that it stops at 13 and someone is bound to get past that point soonish (if not me then emma). Also, with the introduction of Fairy, logic dictates that there should be at least 14 prizes and not 13 (14+elite four). Also Also the prize for Badge 8 is stupid.
c) Elite Four. I mean I would be happy with a simple "Elite Four will be a thing" or "Elite Four is for suckers, all will be gyms" or whatever. I admit that there isn't a need for an Elite Four structure detailed and all. But maybe something is advisible?
BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT I WANT TO DISCUSS.
I don't mean to sound cocky or anything, but maybe it would be nice to consider preparations for finishing the Gym League. By "finishing" I mean:
a) Schedule a day for Flying qualifiers (and Dragon and Fighting too somewhat?). Even if it is like 9 months away. The mere fact that you say "qualifiers will be X" will speed up training and the results as well. And honestly, qualifiers are taking FOREVER so maybe it would be wise to get things started soonish or else the leaders will be nominated by the time Gen 8th is remixed.
b) Revisit the prizes for bagdes, considering that it stops at 13 and someone is bound to get past that point soonish (if not me then emma). Also, with the introduction of Fairy, logic dictates that there should be at least 14 prizes and not 13 (14+elite four). Also Also the prize for Badge 8 is stupid.
c) Elite Four. I mean I would be happy with a simple "Elite Four will be a thing" or "Elite Four is for suckers, all will be gyms" or whatever. I admit that there isn't a need for an Elite Four structure detailed and all. But maybe something is advisible?
May Day! May Day!
Randy: Excuse me sir, there's been a little problem in the cockpit…
Striker: The cockpit…what is it?
Randy: It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now.
McCroskey: Johnny, what can you make of this? [hands Johnny a map]
Johnny: This? Well, I can make a hat; I can make a broach; I can make a pterodactyl!
Inb4 Tulowitzki spams Rock Slide.
c) Elite Four.
I think we don't need a "codified" Elite Four per se - there are plenty of ludicrously, equally skilled GLs with good track records and no fully objective way to decide which is the better four of the rest. Besides, if said Elite Four member retires from ASB completely, the community will have to spend time trying to put replace the Elite Four member and get another Gym Leader at the same time. A good Gym Leader will already have plenty of clout in the community, with or without the "Elite Four" mantle. Just put an 18-badge reward system, I guess?
b) Gym Leagues Rewards.
I think we don't need a "codified" Elite Four per se - there are plenty of ludicrously, equally skilled GLs with good track records and no fully objective way to decide which is the better four of the rest. Besides, if said Elite Four member retires from ASB completely, the community will have to spend time trying to put replace the Elite Four member and get another Gym Leader at the same time. A good Gym Leader will already have plenty of clout in the community, with or without the "Elite Four" mantle. Just put an 18-badge reward system, I guess?
b) Gym Leagues Rewards.
Upon defeating a Gym Leader you have not defeated before, you may immediately rechallenge another gym. In addition, you may claim the 10 CC Item of their type, e.g. Charcoal for the Fire Gym.
01 BADGE: 10 UC
02 BADGE: 1 Max Revive
03 BADGE: 20 UC
04 BADGE: 2 Type-Resist Berries of each Type
05 BADGE: 30 UC
06 BADGE: 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir
07 BADGE: 40 UC
08 BADGE: VOPs + 1 Battle Item of Choice
09 BADGE: 50 UC
10 BADGE: 1 Master Ball
11 BADGE: 75 UC
12 BADGE: 100 UC + 1 Gem of each Type
13 BADGE: 1 Victini
Gym Leaders are assumed to have their own badge.
01 BADGE: 10 UC
02 BADGE: 1 Max Revive
03 BADGE: 20 UC
04 BADGE: 2 Type-Resist Berries of each Type
05 BADGE: 30 UC
06 BADGE: 1 Full Restore + 1 Max Elixir
07 BADGE: 40 UC
08 BADGE: VOPs + 1 Battle Item of Choice
09 BADGE: 50 UC
10 BADGE: 1 Master Ball
11 BADGE: 75 UC
12 BADGE: 100 UC + 1 Gem of each Type
13 BADGE: 1 Victini
Gym Leaders are assumed to have their own badge.
The observable trend in Gym League rewards is:Proposal said:
- UC
- TLR-related rewards (eg. TLR-only Items, Legendaries)
- more UC
- Held Items
- (repeat)
I personally feel that we need the Elite Four... and a Champion.
I had an IRC discussion with Frosty and E4 may or may not come into effect. But I would like it to be implemented :D and Fighting and Dragon Quals might happen early next year and Flying Quals around April.
I don't think I will be ready for any of them :(
The community would grow, only when there is a Anime like approach to this. I disagree with Zheng on the fact that if an Elite Four leaves, he/she would need to be replaced by a Gym Leader and we need to find a new Gym Leader...
That is the same thing we do when a Gym Leader leaves? So there is no difference in that.
Besides when top notch trainers move into Elite position, four more trainers would have the opportunity to become Gym Leaders(Five, counting the Champion @_@ ). Which would create more interest among the community.
As for the Gym Leader rewards, An Arceus is too big a leap from Victini I guess. May be Rayquaza? lol
But seriously though, The dude who manages to beat all types of Gym Leaders deserves to choose their own Legendary through a special TLR as a celebratory formality. To give an anime like feel to the whole thing, no?
And for the dates of the Quals: I was thinking if we had May Day(May 1st) / US Independence Day (July 4) for Flying, Boxing Day(December 26) for Fighting and Chinese New Year(February 19) for Dragon Quals?
If Boxing Day is too early we can find another day for Fighting Quals, and the Last thing that I was thinking was. Sometimes, A gym Leader might want to take another Gym. Because they like that Type better or they have their favorite mons in that Type. I think we should allow this as a mark of respect to these great trainers to choose the type they like the best.
So for example, If Geodude wants to take the quals for the Fighting Gym, then he should be allowed to. And then we go for a Dark Gym Quals or Dark Gym goes to the Contender who lost in the Finals. This creates a bit of a commotion in the short run, but in the long run, everyone will be happy with their place as a Gym Leader and the Finalist who lost the Quals gets to be a Gym Leader for a while n_n
I know these Ideas are spit-balling ones really. But they have some potential, do give some thoughts into them and maybe we can find a feasible solution that is good for us all.
That is the same thing we do when a Gym Leader leaves? So there is no difference in that.
Besides when top notch trainers move into Elite position, four more trainers would have the opportunity to become Gym Leaders(Five, counting the Champion @_@ ). Which would create more interest among the community.
As for the Gym Leader rewards, An Arceus is too big a leap from Victini I guess. May be Rayquaza? lol
But seriously though, The dude who manages to beat all types of Gym Leaders deserves to choose their own Legendary through a special TLR as a celebratory formality. To give an anime like feel to the whole thing, no?
And for the dates of the Quals: I was thinking if we had May Day(May 1st) / US Independence Day (July 4) for Flying, Boxing Day(December 26) for Fighting and Chinese New Year(February 19) for Dragon Quals?
If Boxing Day is too early we can find another day for Fighting Quals, and the Last thing that I was thinking was. Sometimes, A gym Leader might want to take another Gym. Because they like that Type better or they have their favorite mons in that Type. I think we should allow this as a mark of respect to these great trainers to choose the type they like the best.
So for example, If Geodude wants to take the quals for the Fighting Gym, then he should be allowed to. And then we go for a Dark Gym Quals or Dark Gym goes to the Contender who lost in the Finals. This creates a bit of a commotion in the short run, but in the long run, everyone will be happy with their place as a Gym Leader and the Finalist who lost the Quals gets to be a Gym Leader for a while n_n
I know these Ideas are spit-balling ones really. But they have some potential, do give some thoughts into them and maybe we can find a feasible solution that is good for us all.
I don't think I will be ready for any of them :(
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I personally do not see the point of a E4 / Champion. Personally a Victini for defeating whatever out of 18 is fine enough. Maybe some extra incentive for defeating 18 gyms? IDK what that would be though.
And no Arceus. No, just, no. Just Victini is enough.
And no Arceus. No, just, no. Just Victini is enough.
Lol... Okay. Since some seniors think we don't need E4 / Champion. I am going to state my thoughts, on why we need one. But to get there we have to start from the beginning.
Why ASB? Why was competitive pokemon not enough? A) Did folks in Smogon want power in their own hands to control a forum based game? Or B) was there a genuine thought of creating an Anime Style Battling Experience for Pokemon fans?
If A) then there is no further need to discuss, as VETO powers are OP.
If B) then what do we need to create an Anime Style Battling experience? I) A League with Gym Leaders, E4 and a Champion, II) A Gym Leader of Every type but no E4 and no Champion.
I think If we choose II) we will be drifting a lot from the experience that folks want to have with this Forum Game. We have already drifted away from RP actions and Flavors. Senior members are already tired of grinding and are interested in selective parts of ASB. If I may say so, ASB is drifting so much that it will no longer be what it was created for.
Basically rules of the game can be changed at any point in time and folks would still play the game. But their numbers would go down significantly. Are we content at playing this game between 30 odd folks or we want the numbers to grow? If we want to grow, shouldn't we give the new members what they don't get in game? A pure Anime Style Battling experience? Where their Fletchling could evolve into Fletchinder and beat a Talonflame?
Seriously though, If you are not aspiring to be a Champion one day... why are you playing ASB in the first place? Literally no Goals sounds like we are in a Zombie Land, just spending our time doing math. If all you want to do is use a Max Arceus in a forum battle... it is not a big thing to setup at all.
With everything being said, I would lose all motivation to Battle / Train / Ref, if there is no E4 & Champion. I might as well play in PS when ever I feel like battling. Or follow the seniors and do only Raids and TLRs.
P.s: There seem to be so much rage in my posts... lol But there is none. Pure discussion and expressing my point of view. No disrespect intended and No hard feelings.
Why ASB? Why was competitive pokemon not enough? A) Did folks in Smogon want power in their own hands to control a forum based game? Or B) was there a genuine thought of creating an Anime Style Battling Experience for Pokemon fans?
If A) then there is no further need to discuss, as VETO powers are OP.
If B) then what do we need to create an Anime Style Battling experience? I) A League with Gym Leaders, E4 and a Champion, II) A Gym Leader of Every type but no E4 and no Champion.
I think If we choose II) we will be drifting a lot from the experience that folks want to have with this Forum Game. We have already drifted away from RP actions and Flavors. Senior members are already tired of grinding and are interested in selective parts of ASB. If I may say so, ASB is drifting so much that it will no longer be what it was created for.
Basically rules of the game can be changed at any point in time and folks would still play the game. But their numbers would go down significantly. Are we content at playing this game between 30 odd folks or we want the numbers to grow? If we want to grow, shouldn't we give the new members what they don't get in game? A pure Anime Style Battling experience? Where their Fletchling could evolve into Fletchinder and beat a Talonflame?
Seriously though, If you are not aspiring to be a Champion one day... why are you playing ASB in the first place? Literally no Goals sounds like we are in a Zombie Land, just spending our time doing math. If all you want to do is use a Max Arceus in a forum battle... it is not a big thing to setup at all.
With everything being said, I would lose all motivation to Battle / Train / Ref, if there is no E4 & Champion. I might as well play in PS when ever I feel like battling. Or follow the seniors and do only Raids and TLRs.
P.s: There seem to be so much rage in my posts... lol But there is none. Pure discussion and expressing my point of view. No disrespect intended and No hard feelings.
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Battle item for 8th badge is super lame, by the time you win that many you already have all the items you need. Also rather than Dragon quals maybe call it Dragon successor equals or smth? I haven't really thought about leaving or anything...
I don't like Gale Wing Srock's quals times, since they are way too soon as far as dragon and fighting. I know I'm going for one (not sure which), and I really don't have enough time to get a team trained before Dec 26/Feb 19. (Well... maybe Feb 19 but that's a pretty big maybe.)
As far as E4, I don't think we should have a set E4. However, maybe we could have buffed arenas for challenges 15-18?
As far as E4, I don't think we should have a set E4. However, maybe we could have buffed arenas for challenges 15-18?
I like the idea of an Elite Four, or more specifically, a Champion. I think it should be possible to have an end goal to ASB, a way to be the best so to speak, rather than just playing in tournaments/RPs/raids and hoping you never get bored of it. The idea of a concrete end point for the greatest users could be a motivation for retention for people who have done everything they care to do in ASB and a way to keep the veterans of the community engaged.
If nothing else, it also makes the gyms have a bigger reason for challenging them.
I do not like the idea of the Elite Four as an institution. Those players would be challenged so infrequently that they would likely get bored and just rather be gym leaders.
So, I have a nice little compromise thing in hide tags below.
If nothing else, it also makes the gyms have a bigger reason for challenging them.
I do not like the idea of the Elite Four as an institution. Those players would be challenged so infrequently that they would likely get bored and just rather be gym leaders.
So, I have a nice little compromise thing in hide tags below.
Upon earning eight badges, a player could choose to opt into an Elite Four challenge. This would cause them to drop all present and pending gym matches.
The four Gym Leaders with the most wins whose gyms they have not beaten will be selected to play as the Elite Four. They will be given a bank consisting of all Pokemon with 600 or less BST of their type maxed out with any nature and legal item they desire, but will have to play in the ASB arena on balance. This effectively turns the match into an RP boss/Frontier Brain battle against a very experienced AI with the type. The reason I would rather go with total wins over WLT is that you would inevitably end up with at least one newer, less experienced leader who only has one or two wins but no losses in a challenge. The Elite Four should be experienced, battle tested masters in my opinion. If this favors people who have been around longer to gain experience, so be it.
The player would battle all Elite Four simultaneously to reduce the time. If they lose against one or more they will do all rematches simultaneously. This proceeds until they either beat all four or lose three times, effectively creating a Best of Seven series to avoid making things unbeatable while still making it more than possible to be shut out by the Elite Four. Players would need to get another badge before initiating their next Elite Four challenge.
The first trainer to beat the Elite Four becomes Champion. All those who do it afterwards will face the Champion in a championship match after defeating the Elite Four. Alternatively, defeating all eighteen gyms gives you the ability to challenge the Champion or become Champion if their is no sitting Champion.
The four Gym Leaders with the most wins whose gyms they have not beaten will be selected to play as the Elite Four. They will be given a bank consisting of all Pokemon with 600 or less BST of their type maxed out with any nature and legal item they desire, but will have to play in the ASB arena on balance. This effectively turns the match into an RP boss/Frontier Brain battle against a very experienced AI with the type. The reason I would rather go with total wins over WLT is that you would inevitably end up with at least one newer, less experienced leader who only has one or two wins but no losses in a challenge. The Elite Four should be experienced, battle tested masters in my opinion. If this favors people who have been around longer to gain experience, so be it.
The player would battle all Elite Four simultaneously to reduce the time. If they lose against one or more they will do all rematches simultaneously. This proceeds until they either beat all four or lose three times, effectively creating a Best of Seven series to avoid making things unbeatable while still making it more than possible to be shut out by the Elite Four. Players would need to get another badge before initiating their next Elite Four challenge.
The first trainer to beat the Elite Four becomes Champion. All those who do it afterwards will face the Champion in a championship match after defeating the Elite Four. Alternatively, defeating all eighteen gyms gives you the ability to challenge the Champion or become Champion if their is no sitting Champion.
lol poor zarator
I like the idea of gym leaders being able to act as Elite Four on a per-challenger basis. I just think that instead of the bank of mons they could have a stronger arena or something. Also, what happens if someone has 15 badges and wants to challenge the E4?
(we may also want to finish the gym league first)
The gym league is functionally finished or at least within a few months of being finished. Frosty has eleven badges. I think we can talk about the E4 at this stage.
The reason I don't want to go with arenas is that "stronger arenas" is subjective as hell and likely to lead to challengers crying unbeatable (and some arenas might be literally unbeatable) while some "strong" arenas are easily exploitable. What I proposed provides a universal standard that can be applied to any gym with no subjective judgments at any point.
I assume that as a reward for having, you know, fifteen badges you should only have to beat the three remaining gyms in an Elite Four match. That rewards having far more than the minimum number of badges you would need. And at that point, it would also be easier and about as fast to just beat the remaining three leaders in their gyms, so I don't really think the 15/16/17 badge examples are really serious flaws with the plan.
The reason I don't want to go with arenas is that "stronger arenas" is subjective as hell and likely to lead to challengers crying unbeatable (and some arenas might be literally unbeatable) while some "strong" arenas are easily exploitable. What I proposed provides a universal standard that can be applied to any gym with no subjective judgments at any point.
I assume that as a reward for having, you know, fifteen badges you should only have to beat the three remaining gyms in an Elite Four match. That rewards having far more than the minimum number of badges you would need. And at that point, it would also be easier and about as fast to just beat the remaining three leaders in their gyms, so I don't really think the 15/16/17 badge examples are really serious flaws with the plan.
The problem is that many gyms wouldn't get much from that, as they already have the best Pokémon of their type. I can only see this working if the challenger had to use the same team for all battles, as that would make the task way more difficult. If you can send different teams to different battles, you can easily counter a leader, and they won't even have their gym arenas to save themselves.
Also, what if someone with all the 18 badges wants to try the elite four challenge? They shouldn't be disallowed to do so. Therefore, we should think of something. Maybe make the leaders that he fights random? Or the ones with the most wins?
What's the point of having a cool end game challenge if you can just "skip it"? I mean, people are probably going to keep challenging gyms for the sake of having a challenge even if they beat the E4 with only 8 badges, so the inverse should be possible.
Also, what if someone with all the 18 badges wants to try the elite four challenge? They shouldn't be disallowed to do so. Therefore, we should think of something. Maybe make the leaders that he fights random? Or the ones with the most wins?
What's the point of having a cool end game challenge if you can just "skip it"? I mean, people are probably going to keep challenging gyms for the sake of having a challenge even if they beat the E4 with only 8 badges, so the inverse should be possible.
If we really want an endgame for the Gym League then I suggest we do not bother with E4 and just have the Champion. First user to 18 badges becomes champion and gains some perks, idk. From there when someone else gets 18 badges, they earn the right to face the champion for the title. If they win they become champ and the other guy becomes a former champ and maybe could challenge for the champ again in a month time or w/e. If they lose they must wait a while before challenging again.
Simple enough I guess? Though I would rather we did not do something like this but if we really have to, then this is the best thing to do imo.
Simple enough I guess? Though I would rather we did not do something like this but if we really have to, then this is the best thing to do imo.
IAR, it would become too centric between a few players don't you think. Probably looking at the current standings Frosty, Emma and you will be cycling(may be not) Champions. We want the champion to prove himself simultaneously against the top Gym leaders. That way the Gym Leaders also get to take part in the new champion's crowning.
I second Rediamond's Proposal for E4 and Champion with Tavok's suggestion for the Champion to Retain the Team throughout the challenge and E4 + Champion to not be optional if we already have a champion. May be the E4 Challenger could bring 6 or 8 or 10 Pokemon and play the number of pokemon (along with mega restriction) that each of the E4 want him/her to play. I think Arena buffs should be allowed and a champion should really deserve the title for beating the game with all odds stacked against him. We can always Nerf the rules as we would usually end up doing, Cheers! [n_n]
Why is this whole centric idea of what I have suggested a bad thing?
Hasn't the Champion / candidates for the champions already proven themselves against the gym leaders already?
Have the Gym Leaders not already participated in the champions crowning?
That is the Middle Game and this is the End Game ~_~
We still respect the badge holders IAR, lot of hard work has been put into it no doubt, but the end game / climax should be epic imo.
Btw, It would still be centric, but a wider circle and more difficult.
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I think the main issue about having three people compete until the end of time stems mainly from how infrequently challengers would appear and how unrealistic it is to expect new challengers to appear at a rate of any more than once a year and a half or so. Eight badges is attainable, but still very hard, and by that point challengers have spent at the very least a year at a seriously high level of competitiveness just to have a chance at beating the E4. I think that it would add some new blood and excitement to the mix rather than "the same three users that have been winning all the gyms for two years will keep winning all the gyms and eventually will battle each other once a month until they quit."
So, yes, I think that having some sort of an early challenge mechanism would be beneficial since it would mean that becoming champion might be plausible with less than a three year time commitment with a perfect run and minimal queues.
So, yes, I think that having some sort of an early challenge mechanism would be beneficial since it would mean that becoming champion might be plausible with less than a three year time commitment with a perfect run and minimal queues.
I feel like the endgame should be something more than just the battle between two people: if that was the case, it would not be different from a Tower match.
That's why I like the idea of an E4; that, and because it would be a great challenge and give everyone the chance to prove their worth against it even if they don't think they can beat the champ.
That's why I like the idea of an E4; that, and because it would be a great challenge and give everyone the chance to prove their worth against it even if they don't think they can beat the champ.
So basically my gym. I mean I already use a >600 BST mon (Mega Zard) and all of my gym eligible Pokemon are maxed, functionally maxed, or useless so this does nothing for me.
Likewise, I would not be that effected.
More to the point... has anyone asked the leaders if they want to be dragged into an E4 system?
Hint: I don't. And I don't think ASB needs an officiated E4 - the gym league is nowhere near beat yet, let's hold our horses on it.
More to the point... has anyone asked the leaders if they want to be dragged into an E4 system?
Hint: I don't. And I don't think ASB needs an officiated E4 - the gym league is nowhere near beat yet, let's hold our horses on it.
If you are going to wait for someone to reach 18 badges to do anything (aka decide anything or have the "anything" happen only for people that achieved that mark), then you might as well make it official that there will be no "anything" at the end of the tunnel. I don't think people get the situation here. You are VASTLY understimating the time and dedication needed to get to 18 badges, or how incredibly tough it is.
I mean, I am doing this for 2 years, never lost once and never wasted time challenging people and I have only 11 badges (as you said, nowhere near beat). It took me a fucking year and two qualifiers to get to 6 badges on a best-case-scenario. If this keeps up at this rate and, for some fucking miracle, I manage to not lose (highly unlikely), I will need at least another year to get to 18 badges. That is excluding time needed to replace gym leaders and what-not. TBH I don't think I will stick around for that long or I will bother to go that far (specially after victini).
3 fucking years to have anything special (other than the prize for the badge) is beyond reason, logic or anything else. It is something silly to expect and highly unrealistic. If I just came here and discovered that I needed 3 years to get to champions, I would go somewhere else or do something else in ASB. You can get a fucking graduation in less time.
The reason I brought the matter at hand is because we won't have many people that will stick around for 3-4 years just to play champion or elite four or whatever. So you have two options:
a) If you want to do do something special, do it for less badges, like 6 or so. Do that in parallel with prizes for number of badges.
b) Don't do a thing and have only gyms.
If you want option "a" the time is about right as we have some players near that mark (given the size of our userbase, its a considerable ammount of people). If you want option "b" then you might as well make it official now and be done with it anyway. No reason to beat around the bushes for years and years while someone tries to get 18 badges and fails.
Seriously though, If people don't want to do anything special, then don't. Now is as good as any time to say it and make it official. On the same vein, now is a good time to do something if you want to have elite four or other whatever at place, as the gym system has being running for almost 3 years in an uncompleted status. What I don't understand, nor like, is saying "yo when someone is near 18 we will figure out something". Just save us the time and say no.
I mean, I am doing this for 2 years, never lost once and never wasted time challenging people and I have only 11 badges (as you said, nowhere near beat). It took me a fucking year and two qualifiers to get to 6 badges on a best-case-scenario. If this keeps up at this rate and, for some fucking miracle, I manage to not lose (highly unlikely), I will need at least another year to get to 18 badges. That is excluding time needed to replace gym leaders and what-not. TBH I don't think I will stick around for that long or I will bother to go that far (specially after victini).
3 fucking years to have anything special (other than the prize for the badge) is beyond reason, logic or anything else. It is something silly to expect and highly unrealistic. If I just came here and discovered that I needed 3 years to get to champions, I would go somewhere else or do something else in ASB. You can get a fucking graduation in less time.
The reason I brought the matter at hand is because we won't have many people that will stick around for 3-4 years just to play champion or elite four or whatever. So you have two options:
a) If you want to do do something special, do it for less badges, like 6 or so. Do that in parallel with prizes for number of badges.
b) Don't do a thing and have only gyms.
If you want option "a" the time is about right as we have some players near that mark (given the size of our userbase, its a considerable ammount of people). If you want option "b" then you might as well make it official now and be done with it anyway. No reason to beat around the bushes for years and years while someone tries to get 18 badges and fails.
Seriously though, If people don't want to do anything special, then don't. Now is as good as any time to say it and make it official. On the same vein, now is a good time to do something if you want to have elite four or other whatever at place, as the gym system has being running for almost 3 years in an uncompleted status. What I don't understand, nor like, is saying "yo when someone is near 18 we will figure out something". Just save us the time and say no.
"Hold your horses" was in regards to the number of people acting as if E4 was a given all of a sudden - it's not - and throwing out every suggestion in the book like it's going out of fashion. BAd wording before, but I digress. Taking a week of calm to figure out exactly what we want will not harm anyone at this stage. Especially since the discussion is going in circles.
With that said, I suppose I'll actually bother to lead the discussion a little. Since nobody else seems to be...
Does ASB need an Elite 4 / Champion?
What qualifications should the Elite 4 Members & the Champion have?
What qualifications should an E4 challenger have?
From these we can branch off into more questions. But taking this nice and slowly will be better in the long run than a hastily thought out idea, which is what we are heading towards at the moment.
With that said, I suppose I'll actually bother to lead the discussion a little. Since nobody else seems to be...
Does ASB need an Elite 4 / Champion?
Simple enough, opinion polling. Also, should "Champion" be a single, active role, or just a title for beating the E4?
What qualifications should the Elite 4 Members & the Champion have?
Are we looking at a public vote on them, or are we considering gym records? We'll also have to decide if we start with a Champion, if we wish to look into the Champion being an active role.
What qualifications should an E4 challenger have?
Most everyone agrees on 8 badges, but that'll take a while for anyone to get. Is a lower number a better goal, like 4 badges to be eligible?
From these we can branch off into more questions. But taking this nice and slowly will be better in the long run than a hastily thought out idea, which is what we are heading towards at the moment.
Does ASB need an Elite 4 / Champion?
Yes. I think it's cool to have an actual endgame and we have definitely evolved enough to make this viable.
What qualifications should the Elite 4 Members & the Champion have?
I would rather not have a strict, set E4 but have an Elite Four challenge. Ideally the people opposing the challenger would have at least the skill of a mid to high level gym leader.
What qualifications should an E4 challenger have?
Eight badges is high, but attainable. Having a shot at endgame shouldn't be easy by any means. Eight has been shown to be doable and there are already users who could do it. Also, canon.
Yes. I think it's cool to have an actual endgame and we have definitely evolved enough to make this viable.
What qualifications should the Elite 4 Members & the Champion have?
I would rather not have a strict, set E4 but have an Elite Four challenge. Ideally the people opposing the challenger would have at least the skill of a mid to high level gym leader.
What qualifications should an E4 challenger have?
Eight badges is high, but attainable. Having a shot at endgame shouldn't be easy by any means. Eight has been shown to be doable and there are already users who could do it. Also, canon.