Necturna



Necturna

QC: 3/3 (HeaLnDeaL, Animus Majulous, QueenOfLuvdiscs)
GP: 2/2 (Winry, Lord Alphose)

Overview
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Necturna is CAP's most versatile Pokemon thanks to its access to one Sketch move, allowing it to perform a variety of roles, from spreading status to setting up entry hazards to being an offensive sweeper. With the addition of Sticky Web, King's Shield, and Spiky Shield in XY and Precipice Blades and Dragon Ascent in ORAS, Necturna got a whole host of new and dangerous toys to play with, giving the opponent even less of a chance of guessing which set it is running. It has the joint-second highest base stat total of all CAP Pokemon with an impressive base 120 Attack and Special Defense, which are complimented by a decent base 100 Defense. In addition, its base 81 Speed allows it to outspeed common base 80 Speed Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Tomohawk, although it is still rather slow in comparison to most of the tier, which means it can be outsped and KOed by many common threats such as Colossoil and Cawmodore.

However, its only ability, Forewarn, is rather poor; it allows you to see the foe's highest Base Power move. Although this does have some competitive use in that it allows you to scout to an extent, it can be tricked by moves with variable Base Power, most notably Knock Off, and it is often useless. Moreover, Necturna has a very mediocre base 85 Special Attack, preventing it from being able to take full advantage of its specially offensive Sketch moves. Most of all, it suffers from being weak to four forms of priority as well as Knock Off, limiting its use as a sweeper and allowing slower Pokemon to deal large amounts of damage to it. Lastly, it has a meager base 64 HP, meaning that its good defense stats are somewhat wasted.

Defensive Sticky Web
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name: Defensive Sticky Web
move 1: Sticky Web
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Power Whip / Horn Leech / Super Fang
ability: Forewarn
item: Colbur Berry
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
nature: Impish

Moves
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Sticky Web is extremely useful, as it slows down opposing threats and allows your Pokemon to win what would otherwise be Speed ties. Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical sweepers, most notably Cawmodore, that try to use Necturna as setup bait, and it can be used on any physical threats in general. Shadow Sneak is a STAB priority move that allows Necturna to potentially KO Pokemon and avoid Sucker Punch. Power Whip is Necturna's strongest STAB, while Horn Leech can be used as an alternative as it gives Necturna a form of recovery, but the lower Base Power makes it much harder to KO Colossoil. Super Fang halves the HP of any Pokemon that isn't a Ghost-type, and can annoy Pokémon such as Chansey which would otherwise wall Necturna.

Set Details
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Necturna is arguably the best Sticky Web setter in the CAP metagame, as it can also take advantage of its Ghost typing to block Rapid Spin. The 4 Speed EVs allow it to Speed creep other Necturna, while the Colbur Berry in tandem with 252 Defense EVs allow Necturna to set up Sticky Web even against Colossoil, as a Knock Off from Colossoil does less than 50% with Colbur Berry. Colbur Berry also gives Necturna an opportunity to hurt Colossoil back with Power Whip, which does around 85% even without any Attack investment.

A specially defensive spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe, a Calm nature, and Leftovers could be used, as Will-O-Wisp already deals with physical threats, but without the great physical investment, Necturna cannot stomach attacks from Colossoil.

Focus Sash is one option, as it guarantees that Necturna can set up Sticky Web, but it is liable to getting broken by the ever-present Stealth Rock and other entry hazards. On the other hand, Focus Sash also allows Necturna to stop sweepers. Leftovers could be used to give Necturna passive recovery, but at the cost of Colbur Berry, which is essential against Colossoil.

Usage Tips
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Players will often predict a Sticky Web Necturna to lead and send in a Pokemon to lure the Sticky Web and then switch to Colossoil to Rebound it back, leaving you with Sticky Web on your side, as well as a potentially bad matchup. Predicting this correctly and hitting Colossoil with Power Whip on the switch-in allows you to set up Sticky Web and then potentially tank the second Knock Off and KO Colossoil. Similarly, Magic Bounce users, most notably Mega Sableye, can bounce back Sticky Web and Will-O-Wisp. Note that other Magic Bouncers do not appreciate being hit by Power Whip and Shadow Sneak, so they take a risk if they switch in.

Predicting a Sucker Punch from Colossoil and other Sucker Punch users allows you to set up Sticky Web for free or cripple the opposing Colossoil with Will-O-Wisp, assuming it has Rebound and not Guts. On that note, be careful when using Will-O-Wisp on Colossoil, as you will gift them a 50% increase in Attack if they have Guts. On the other hand, many Pokemon that wall Necturna, such as Skarmory, Scizor, and Cyclohm, don't appreciate a burn grinding down their health and, in some cases, crippling their attacking moves, so burning them on the switch-in can be a great nuisance.

Team Options
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Obviously, Sticky Web Necturna is best on a team that appreciates Sticky Web, so Pokemon that lack a little bit of Speed, such as Choice Specs Sylveon and bulky offensive Pokemon, will benefit from the Speed drop that Sticky Web brings.

Bisharp can be a good partner, as it covers four of Necturna's weaknesses while Necturna covers two of Bisharp's, although they are both weak to Fire, and Bisharp is rather frail. Bisharp discourages Defoggers from removing Sticky Web, as it can get a +2 Attack boost if it switches into Defog, and in return, Bisharp benefits from the Sticky Web Necturna sets up. Because opposing Bisharp can get a free +2 Attack boost through Sticky Web, it might be advisable to run a Bisharp counter, such as Haze Tomohawk or Unaware Arghonaut, which can take any of Bisharp's boosted attacks and/or counter it; Tomohawk also completely walls Colossoil, Necturna's arch-nemesis.

Fire types such as Heatran and Mollux resist Power Whip and can absorb Will-O-Wisp (Heatran also gets the Flash Fire boost), allowing them to completely wall Necturna and KO it with their super effective Fire-type STAB moves, although they can't stop it from setting up Sticky Web. Therefore, a Mollux and Heatran counter may also be useful, the most prominent being Guts Colossoil which can also take out Chansey and other Fire-types that can take a Power Whip and heal off any burns that Necturna may have inflicted.

Pokemon with high Special Defense, such as Sylveon, can help to counter the stronger specially attacking threats, which can KO Necturna and are not affected by burn's Attack drop. Necturna has a nasty weakness to Knock Off, but that can be alleviated by having a teammate that can take Knock Off, such as a Fairy- or Fighting-type. Necturna is weak to four forms of priority, and the most worrying of these is Flying-type spam, so a Flying-type spam check such as Cyclohm or Rotom-W, can be a great partner.

Bulky Band / Bulky Attacker
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name: Bulky Band / Bulky Attacker
move 1: Power Whip / Horn Leech / Leaf Blade
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Shadow Claw
move 4: V-Create / Dragon Ascent / Sacred Fire
ability: Forewarn
item: Choice Band / Life Orb
evs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
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The first moveslot contains your choice of a Grass-type STAB move: Power Whip is devastating but at the price of 85% accuracy, while Horn Leech gives recovery. Leaf Blade is a kind of compromise, with more power than Horn Leech but without the lowered accuracy of Power Whip. Shadow Sneak is a STAB priority move that is good for revenge killing and avoiding priority attacks from opposing Pokemon, while Shadow Claw is Necturna's only other physical Ghost-type STAB move.

The Sketch moveslot is a choice between V-Create, Sacred Fire, and Dragon Ascent. Choice Banded V-Create allows Necturna to get some important KOs, such as OHKOs on Mega Metagross, Skarmory (ignoring Sturdy), and Kyurem-B (after Stealth Rock) and 2HKOs on Chansey and physically defensive Mega Venusaur. However, this comes at the cost of drops in both defenses and Speed and a lower accuracy than Sacred Fire. Dragon Ascent can used to lure in and OHKO Necturna's arch-nemesis, Tomohawk. Lastly, Sacred Fire works better on Life Orb sets and gives burn utility in return for losing some power.


Precipice Blades or Earthquake can be used as alternatives to lure in and 2HKO Cyclohm and Heatran, both of which can deal with Necturna quite well otherwise. Bolt Strike can be used instead of Dragon Ascent, as Choice Band Bolt Strike has a 62.5% chance to OHKO Tomohawk after Stealth Rock and will 2HKO even if Tomohawk uses Reflect or Roost, although it has an unreliable 85% accuracy. It has the added advantages of beating Skarmory as well as Tomohawk with no defense drop at the cost of OHKOing Tomohawk and lower accuracy.

Set Details
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This set takes advantage of Necturna's good Attack stat and decent 64 / 100 / 120 bulk to be able to take hits and hit very hard. 116 EVs in Speed allow Necturna to outspeed base 95 Speed Pokemon, most notably Colossoil, as well as maximum Speed Azumarill.

Choice Band allows Necturna to hit extremely hard at the cost of being trapped into a single move, while Life Orb allows Necturna to change moves but provides residual damage and less power.


Usage Tips
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Sets without Horn Leech have no recovery, so only switch Necturna in when you are sure it won't get hurt too much or after one of its teammates has fainted, allowing it to revenge kill. Choice Banded V-Create hits anything that doesn't resist incredibly hard and pretty much guarantees KOs, but it lowers Necturna's defenses and Speed. If it is run, use V-Create to punch holes in the opposing team, then switch Necturna out. Dragon Ascent is in a similar position, except that it doesn't lower Necturna's Speed.

Defensive walls such as Cyclohm, Skarmory, and Tomohawk can switch in and wall Necturna, as they all resist Necturna's Grass-type STAB moves and can take Shadow Claw fairly well too, although they don't like getting hit by Necturna's powerful Sketch moves. Cyclohm dislikes Precipice Blades, while Skarmory doesn't appreciate Bolt Strike, V-Create, and Sacred Fire, and Tomohawk hates Dragon Ascent and Bolt Strike.

Team Options
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Necturna appreciates Gothitelle, which can trap and remove physical walls such as Cyclohm, Skarmory, and non-Shed Shell/Baton Pass Tomohawk. Similarly, Magnezone can trap and remove Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Necturna also appreciates powerful special attackers such as Syclant and Stratagem. Bisharp can outspeed and easily revenge kill Necturna with its STAB Knock Off or Pursuit, although it can't switch in on anything it doesn't resist. This means Pokemon that can take Knock Off and other powerful Dark-type STAB moves, such as Fighting- and Fairy-types and most Mega Evolutions, are good partners. Entry hazards are also very useful for Necturna, as they break Sturdy and Focus Sash and allow it to get more KOs, most notably on Kyurem-B and Tomohawk. Lastly, Flying-type spam is everywhere, so a counter to it, such as Rotom-W or Cyclohm, will do wonders for Necturna.

Physical Sweeper
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name: Physical Sweeper
move 1: Shell Smash / Shift Gear
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Shadow Claw
move 4: Horn Leech / Power Whip / Leaf Blade
ability: Forewarn
item: White Herb / Focus Sash / Life Orb / Colbur Berry
evs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
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Shell Smash and Shift Gear allow Necturna to double its Speed, as well as giving its already respectable Attack a boost. Shell Smash gives it a bigger boost but at the cost of lowered defenses or the loss of an item. Shadow Sneak is a priority attack, and Shadow Claw is a stronger Ghost-type STAB move. Horn Leech gives recovery, while Power Whip is devastating but at the price of 85% accuracy, and Leaf Blade is a kind of compromise, with more power than Horn Leech but without the lowered accuracy of Power Whip.


Stone Edge is a powerful alternative that provides coverage against Ice-, Flying-, and Fire-types. Thunder Fang works in much the same way with higher accuracy and lower Base Power, although a boosted Shadow Claw will usually deal with most Pokemon anyway.


Set Details
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168 Speed EVs and a Jolly Nature allow Necturna to outspeed everything relevant in the CAP metagame, includingChoice Scarf Kitsunoh, Latias, and Latios as well as Timid Mega Aerodactyl, at +2. 108 Speed EVs with a Jolly Nature can be used to outspeed Choice Scarf Plasmanta if outspeeding Choice Scarf base 110 Speed Pokemon at +2 doesn't matter to you. If you want an Adamant Nature for more power, 252 Speed EVs just miss out on outspeeding Choice Scarf base 110 Speed Pokemon, but they allow Necturna to outspeed Choice Scarf Keldeo; 192 EVs let Necturna outspeed Choice Scarf Plasmanta. A mixed set with Shadow Ball can be used to hit physical walls such as Skarmory and Tomohawk slightly harder; moving the 88 HP EVs into Special Attack allows you to 2HKO both after Stealth Rock.

Focus Sash allows Necturna to take a hit when needed, and White Herb can be used to offset the stat drops of Shell Smash.(period) Alternatively, Life Orb lets Necturna hit very hard and get some important KOs, most notably an OHKO on Mega Pinsir after Stealth Rock and an OHKO on 252 HP Kitsunoh, but at the cost of residual damage, which can really grind down Necturna's already mediocre HP. Colbur Berry is really only useful for Shift Gear sets, because it lets Necturna reliably beat Colossoil and isn't broken by entry hazards.

Usage Tips
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Be sure Shadow Sneak can KO, because if it doesn't, Necturna is susceptible to getting hurt quite badly by common priority attacks, especially Ice Shard and Shadow Sneak, which are super effective. Necturna is also hurt badly by Sucker Punch if it doesn't use Shadow Sneak.


Focus Sash and Colbur Berry sets can be used to bait and KO Colossoil while possibly regaining Necturna's health back through Horn Leech. Other sets shouldn't be put near Colossoil, as it is resistant to Shadow Sneak and will OHKO them with Sucker Punch.

After setting up, with the ability to outspeed more or less the entire metagame at +2 Speed, especially with a boosted 120 Base Power attack in Power Whip, Necturna can take out a variety of Pokemon. Necturna is better for late-game sweeps, when its counters are gone and it can operate much more freely. Much like with any setup sweeper, make sure you set up at a time when Necturna is not in danger of getting seriously damaged.

Team Options
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Gothitelle and Magnezone can trap the physical walls that stop Necturna's sweep, while specially offensive Pokemon can take them out; Landorus is a particularly good partner, as it can deal with the stall cores that trouble Necturna. Tomohawk can deal with Colossoil and Bisharp, while offensive variants can heavily damage Cyclohm and Skarmory with Earth Power and Aura Sphere, respectively. Tomohawk can also set up Stealth Rock, which allows Necturna to OHKO Talonflame at +2 and offensive Kitsunoh without Life Orb, as well as Mega Pinsir with it. Pokemon such as physically defensive Rotom-W and Cyclohm can be helpful teammates, as they can take care of Ice Shard and Sucker Punch users and Flying-types, which can annoy Necturna with their super effective STAB priority moves.

Double Status
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name: Double Status
nove 1: Spore
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Horn Leech
move 4: Super Fang / Shadow Claw
ability: Forewarn
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
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Spore is the Sketch move of choice here and the focus of the set, allowing Necturna to put foes to sleep with 100% accuracy. Will-O-Wisp allows Necturna to burn foes, most notably due to the switches that Spore will force, crippling their Attack and whittling down their HP. This, along with maximum HP and Special Defense EVs, allows Necturna to wall all non-super effective STAB moves quite effectively. Horn Leech is a STAB move that also gives Necturna some form of recovery, while Super Fang allows Necturna to halve the foe's HP and gives Necturna some wallbreaking ability. Shadow Claw can be used for a Ghost-type STAB move.


Set Details
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The set is aimed at crippling one foe with sleep while still retaining the ability to burn others if the foe switches out. Leftovers gives Necturna the passive recovery that it needs, increasing its longevity so it can spread more status. The EV spread and a Careful nature maximize Necturna's special bulk, while Will-O-Wisp halves the foe's Attack. An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe can be used to outspeed Bisharp and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp.

Usage Tips
========
Necturna isn't fast and struggles to take physical attacks, so you need to be prudent about when you are switching it in. However, Spore allows you to put a foe to sleep, essentially removing it from the battle until it wakes up. Often as a result, the opponent will switch it out in order to not give away free turns, allowing Necturna to either cripple the new foe with a burn or halve its health with Super Fang.

Beware of Necturna's nemesis, Colossoil, which is not KOed by a weak, uninvested Horn Leech and can Rebound Spore and Will-O-Wisp (although Necturna's Grass typing stops it from being sent to sleep itself) or absorb Will-O-Wisp with Guts. Of course, this also applies to other Guts users, although Colossoil is really the only prominent one in the CAP metagame. Fire-types are immune to Will-O-Wisp, while Grass-types and Overcoat users are immune to Spore, so the opponent can get a free switch-in if they predict correctly. Also, note that Pyorak completely walls this set. Magic Bouncers, most notably Mega Sableye, can bounce both Spore and Will-O-Wisp, while Super Fang doesn't hit Mega Sableye, although Mega Diancie doesn't like getting hit with super effective STAB Horn Leech and can't hit Necturna super effectively with anything other than Hidden Power Fire. Therefore, be careful when spreading priority with a team that has a Magic Bounce. Chansey can come in and take a Spore or a Will-O-Wisp thanks to Natural Cure and Wish pass to a teammate, most notably Colossoil. Chansey can also Toxic Necturna, although it doesn't particularly like getting hit with Super Fang. Therefore, it is advisable to switch out against Chansey with this set, preferably into a Pokémon which is immune to Toxic.

Team Options
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Spore and Will-O-Wisp can force a lot of switches, so an entry hazard setter such as Tomohawk or Ferrothorn is useful for wearing down the opposing Pokemon and luring in Colossoil and the Magic Bounce users that stop Necturna from spreading status. Tomohawk is also a sure counter to Colossoil, and it can set up Reflect, which boosts Necturna's ability to take physical attacks, as well as Haze Mega Sableye that try to set up Calm Mind after switching into Necturna.

Hard-hitting Pokemon such as Colossoil or Shadow Tag users such as Gothitelle can take out or trap Chansey and other clerics, which can come in and use Heal Bell or Aromatherapy to get rid of the status that Necturna spreads or Wish pass to get rid of the pesky Super Fang damage. Necturna is easily KOed by super effective moves, most notably from Fire-types such as Talonflame or Mega Charizard X which can predict a Will-O-Wisp and get a free switch-in, so physcially defensive walls such as Cyclohm and Rotom-W are great teammates.

Other Options
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A specially attacking set with Geomancy and Power Herb can also be used to boost Necturna's mediocre Special Attack to good levels, as well as give it insane Special Defense while still allowing it to outspeed most of the metagame. However, it is outclassed by Necturna's physical sets due to Necturna's superior Attack stat. Belly Drum is also an option, boosting Necturna's already impressive base 120 Attack to insane levels. However, Necturna is too slow pull it off as well as, for example, Cawmodore, and it is much easier to shut it down, especially if the opponent knows that it is running Belly Drum, unlike Necturna's other sets.


King's Shield halves the foe's Attack and Spiky Shield hurts the foe when it tries to attack Necturna. These moves can force switches, stop sweeps, and get KOs if used correctly, although they are generally outclassed by other moves. Parting Shot gives Necturna the ability to carry momentum while also crippling opposing attackers, with the exception of Defiant Bisharp. Dark Void can be used instead of Spore to give Necturna the ability to send Grass-types to sleep at the cost of lower accuracy and no longer being immune to Magic Bounced or Rebounded sleep-inducing moves.

Necturna also has options which do not use up its precious Sketch move; Gravity gives Necturna's teammates some support, allowing Ground-type moves to hit Flying-types, most notably Skarmory and Cawmodore, while Thunder Fang and Stone Edge provide Necturna with coverage. Pain Split can be used on the bulky sets as a viable form of recovery, and Necturna can also set up Toxic Spikes.

Checks & Counters
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**Physical Walls**: Physical walls such as Cyclohm, Skarmory, and Tomohawk can wall Necturna's STAB moves with relative ease and can potentially stop Necturna's sweep or force it to switch out, allowing them to take control of the flow of the battle.

**Taunt**: Taunt stops Necturna's defensive variants from doing their job, preventing them from spreading status or setting up entry hazards and limiting them to just using Super Fang or other not very powerful STAB moves, more or less stopping them in their tracks.

** Super Effective Priority Moves**: Flying-type spam, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, and Shadow Sneak are common priority moves that can stop Necturna in its tracks, severely damaging or KOing all variants, with the exception of Colbur Berry against Sucker Punch. Flying-type spam in particular, such as Talonflame's Brave Bird, can cause massive problems for Necturna.
 
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Not too happy with the Sticky Web analysis in particular, maybe a bit rushed. Spore and Band/Bulky Attacker still to come. Feedback would be welcome.
 

Tadasuke

Tuh-dah-skay
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The first thing that popped out to me about this is that you consider having forewarn to be a plus. I would definitely take that out and put a minus for no competitive abilities. The sets overall are great, especially the defensive sticky web one, I can definitely see that being used more often. There should be some mention of the banded V-Create set, being that it's the most powerful commonly used set that doesn't require setting up. Lastly, adding in Flying-spam and Colossoil checks to team options would be wise.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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- A specially defensive alternative with 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe, a Calm Calm nature and Leftovers could be used, as Sticky Web already deals with physical threats, but without the great physical investment, Necturna cannot stomach Colossoil
You mention Sticky Web dealing with physical threats, but that should be Will-O-Wisp. Also, Sticky Web is probably the best set and thus should be listed first.

Also, try to avoid phrases such as "the most commonly used set" since Necturna is diverse and is prone to changes in set popularity. I'd also argue against Tadasuke's above post that banded V-create is at all common; you might see it, but I haven't seen it nearly as much as defensive sets.

Just as a forewarning, OO is probably going to contain a lot of information. Spiky Shield, maybe Geomancy, Sacred Fire, Parting Shot, and Diamond storm are all moves I've seen but haven't truly proven themselves for a set (and I'm sure there's much more). King's Shield may or may not be able to have it's own set.

Spore is absolutely needed as a third set. I talked to some people in the showdown room, and the preliminary spore set we came up with is this:

Spore and Friends
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Name: Double Status
Move 1: Spore
Move 2: Will-O-Wisp
Move 3: Horn Leech
Move 4: Super Fang / Shadow Claw
Ability: Forewarn
Item: Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Nature: Calm

Basically a set aimed at crippling one foe with sleep, while still retaining the ability to burn others if the opponent switches out. The EVs and nature are the biggest things up for contention, so I'd encourage anyone who's interested in Necturna to see which EVs do the best for this set in the new ORAS meta. I don't think this set is final by any means, and I really would like to see some other opinions and some replays (use hide tags and text until the normal replays are working again).
 
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cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
A bulky physical attacker with LO or CB should be listed; its good and can make use of Necturna's 120 base attack and the great coverage options Sketch provides. V-Create, Sacred Fire, Bolt Strike, and such are all viable options for coverage, and this set in particular can be custom tailored to handle a specific threat to a team.

Landorus should be mentioned as a teammate for the sweeper set as it can punch holes through the stall cores that trouble Necturna. They also have great synergy as Necturna can wreck Cresselia, which is one of stalls best answer to Landorus.

Also, an alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef can be used to out run Bisharp and WoW it on the Spore set. I don't think there are any other good benchmarks for speed, as Necturna is already faster than stuff like Skarmory, Heatran, and Cyclohm.
 
Thanks for your feedback guys.
As I had said in my comment after the analysis, I was already planning to do both a Spore set and a Band/Bulky Attacker set, but your suggestions have been extremely helpful.

I more or less agree with all your suggestions, just this one (from HeaL) I disagree with:
I'd also argue against Tadasuke's above post that banded V-create is at all common; you might see it, but currently it is actually very rare and V-Create is probably best left in Other Options.
Surely, the Band set deserves a mention outside of OO (at least in the same set as Bulky Attacker), and V-Create is one of the best options that the Band set has.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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I think the band set should be turned into a (bulky) wallbreaker set with life orb as the first slash and choice band as the second. My problem isn't necessarily with V-create but rather the idea of a banded v create, as it forces Necturna to use the move once and switch out; potentially viable but far from ideal. With Life Orb, at least she can use other moves first and then reveal it when needed. Overall, I personally like Sacred Fire more than V-Create if you're going to be locked in.
 
That was more or less already the plan for the Band/Bulky Attacker set, but Banded V-Create Necturna is much like Banded V-Create Victini in that it comes in and more or less guaruntees a KO on anything which doesn't resist, leaving holes in teams for team-mates to exploit. I feel that Victini Smash V-Create deserves at least a slash on the Band/Bulky Attacker set.

My problem isn't necessarily with V-create but rather the idea of a banded v create, as it forces Necturna to use the move once and switch out; potentially viable but far from ideal.
This point about only using it once before being forced to switch out slightly puzzles me, as while it is definitely true, this is more or less the case for any choice item, since they all trap you into 1 move (although V-Create does have the added pitfall of -1 Def, SpDef and Speed).
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Victini does V Create better because it can use scarf and use the move twice in a row with a degree of reliability. Not to mention Victini has stab... I am not saying V Create should not be slashed. I am just saying it's crippling side effects are hard to ignore, and Necturna usually has better things to do than play like a poor man's Victini. Doing some calcs on some CAP threats with V Create compared to Sacred Fire might help in deciding which should be the primary slash.
 

jas61292

used substitute
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I don't have the calcs to back it up at the moment, but from my experience, Band with V-Create is one of the best offensive sets it has. V-Create certainly doesn't have consistency, but the power difference vs just about anything is soooo worth it. V-Create is as strong as STAB Power Whip, while being more reliable. On an LO set, Sacred Fire would probably be better, but with Band, which is an awesome set in its own right, if you are going to have to switch out anyways to switch moves, there is absolutely no better Sketch move, imo.
 
Calcs (so many). See them and revel in the glory multitude:
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 108-128 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 16.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 542-638 (174.2 - 205.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 302-356 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 403-475 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 225-265 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 346-408 (103.5 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 192-228 (57.4 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 430-506 (142.8 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 238-282 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 317-373 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 176-208 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 305-359 (78 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Gourgeist-Super Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 170-200 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Overall, the utility that V-Create and Sacred Fire provide against Steels is pretty great, making them Necturna's best option as an attacking Sketch move. However, I'd like to nominate yet another OO move, particularly useful on LO and Scarf sets - Dragon Ascent.

120 BP Flying-typed Close Combat folks. What a time to be alive. This move is incredible, not only handling opposing Grass types with ease, but also dealing heavy damage to both Mega-Venusaur and, perhaps most notably, Tomohawk. It's definitely not in the same power tier as V-Create, but it provides some incredibly useful utility, and should at least merit a mention - Dragon Ascent really is one of the most awesome moves ORAS gave us.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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I heard Dragon Ascent is coded to only work when Rayquaza is in Mega form... So if this is true Necturna can sketch it but never use it.
 
Good to know. It's legal on Showdown right now, but that may just be an oversight in programming, what with ORAS being somewhat fresh. Something to keep an eye on at least.
 
I would add super fang to the defensive sticky web set. I would also add a special bulky set with WoW because even though its not as good as the defensive set and loses to colossoil, its still viable in the meta.
 
In regards to Dragon Ascent, I'll probably wait until all uncertainties have been quashed.
I heard Dragon Ascent is coded to only work when Rayquaza is in Mega form... So if this is true Necturna can sketch it but never use it.
Apparently, Mega Ray can evolve just by having Dragon Ascent as one of it's 4 moves, so it's kinda acting like a Mega Stone. Therefore, I'd suspect that, like if you tried to put a Mega Stone on Necturna, it doesn't work.

I would add super fang to the defensive sticky web set. I would also add a special bulky set with WoW because even though its not as good as the defensive set and loses to colossoil, its still viable in the meta.
What should I slash it with? The specially defensive set with WoW is the same as the Spore set (or as HeaL calls it, Spore and Friends).
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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If we're all agreeing on the specially defensive spore set, then feel free to add it to the actual analysis (it's still missing there). Furthermore, after seeing the calcs, I'm fine with a 4th band/life orb set with V-Create in the first slot, primary slash, with Sacred Fire either as a secondary slash or just to show up as a comment off in moves.
 
It's finally updated! I'm a lazy ass, so I know there are some GP mistakes, and I think it could have been a bit more detailed in places. Is it ready to be transferred from WIP to QC now? This is my 1st analysis in anything, so I don't really know how it works.
 
This is a personal preference, but I would change it to not double spaced because its weirdly harder for me to read and look at. Yeah, I think its ready to be considered for QC so I would changed it from WIP to QC 0/3.
 
Its nice to run some speed on the banded set so that you can outspeed base 95's. I don't know how much that is, but its not too much. I would add a bit of speed there. I'll post some more comments later.
 
116 Speed EVs brings it up to 227, which means it just outspeeds uninvested base 95s (226). I'm assuming I should take the EVs out of HP?

Edit: I went ahead and made the changes. I also moved the Band set above the Physical sweeper as many people have expressed the opinion that it is a more superior offensive set.
 
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HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I'm really liking how things are shaping up here. I think I can agree with all of the sets provided, and you did a good job explaining the EV investments. My main issues at this point are extremely nitpicky at this point.

-In the Overview, you describe Forewarn as a non competitive ability and I have to disagree with this. Forewarn has helped me scout out unusual moves a lot, and it does have some important competitive merit. It may not be an absolutely amazing ability, but it does its job and it's better than something like Illuminate.
-In Checks and Counters, (almost) all of the Magic Bouncers have serious typing flaws that prevent them from being hard counters. Colossoil and Diancie lose to Power Whip, while Shadow Sneak/Claw hurts Espeon (and Xatu lol) and Espeon doesn't have anything to OHKO back in return (and neither does Diance for that matter). Mega Absol is the only real Magic Bouncer not weak to Necturna's STABs, but even then his low defense makes Power Whip still hurt and Mega Absol is not common in CAP. So, overall, I personally don't view the Bouncers to be C/C material.
 
-In the Overview, you describe Forewarn as a non competitive ability and I have to disagree with this. Forewarn has helped me scout out unusual moves a lot, and it does have some important competitive merit. It may not be an absolutely amazing ability, but it does its job and it's better than something like Illuminate.
I had originally put Forewarn as a '+', but was then told to but as a '-' as a non-competitive ability. I'll put it as a '-' as a poor ability, but mention that it can have some usefulness, is that good?

-In Checks and Counters, (almost) all of the Magic Bouncers have serious typing flaws that prevent them from being hard counters. Colossoil and Diancie lose to Power Whip, while Shadow Sneak/Claw hurts Espeon (and Xatu lol) and Espeon doesn't have anything to OHKO back in return (and neither does Diance for that matter). Mega Absol is the only real Magic Bouncer not weak to Necturna's STABs, but even then his low defense makes Power Whip still hurt and Mega Absol is not common in CAP. So, overall, I personally don't view the Bouncers to be C/C material.
Firstly, you missed out Mega Sab. Secondly, I did pick up on this while writing it, but Spore set ATM means Necturna only carries Horn Leech and maybe Shadow Claw (second slash), while the Sticky Web set has it slashed (admittedly as the primary choice), so there is no guaruntee that it will run it (unboosted Horn Leech isn't amazing but not terrible either). Thirdly, the point was that Bouncers put a doubt in the mind of the player and can stop Necturna from doing its job, with considerable backlash if you get a bounced WoW or Sticky Web and you can't get rid of them. However, I do understand that they aren't enough of a threat to be put into C&C. This is probably the area I struggled the most with, and I'd appreciate help as to what I should replace it with. For now, I'll delete it.
 

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