What's wrong with Scrafty right now? There needs to be justification as to why a Pokemon should be reslated.
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Megas For All V2 (Induction Phase)
- Thread starter nightsitter
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Avalugg - the typing is odd and Sturdy doesn't suit a mega.
Bisharp - doesn't really work, it's weaker and I don't think it can really use its extra bulk
Carracosta - doesn't stand out at all
Castform - just bad, and new moves don't make sense.
Delcatty - a mega that's only role is a passer won't work
Emolga - we can figure something better than Prankster, and Parting Shot is unfitting
Ledian - poor offensively and defensively
Luvdisc - no to everything about this
Masquerain - how does it not have Drizzle?
Noctowl - keep X, maybe more SpA/less Spe since it gets priority anyway
Quagsire - outclassed by Gastrodon
Regice - not much of an improvement
Regirock - Immunity is cool, lopsided stats bother me
Registeel - useless ability, we should do the trio properly
Seviper - Mold Breaker doesn't do much for it and doesn't even ignore Poison Heal for the sake of its rivalry with Zangoose
Shiftry - kinda generic and has many things to compete with
Swanna (See Lumineon) - since when did Lumineon get Swift Swim? It had Lightning Rod and Simple before, if it kept Lighting Rod this wouldn't be an issue
Whiscash (See Bibarel) - rather reslate Bibarel, just one or the other
Bisharp - doesn't really work, it's weaker and I don't think it can really use its extra bulk
Carracosta - doesn't stand out at all
Castform - just bad, and new moves don't make sense.
Delcatty - a mega that's only role is a passer won't work
Emolga - we can figure something better than Prankster, and Parting Shot is unfitting
Ledian - poor offensively and defensively
Luvdisc - no to everything about this
Masquerain - how does it not have Drizzle?
Noctowl - keep X, maybe more SpA/less Spe since it gets priority anyway
Quagsire - outclassed by Gastrodon
Regice - not much of an improvement
Regirock - Immunity is cool, lopsided stats bother me
Registeel - useless ability, we should do the trio properly
Seviper - Mold Breaker doesn't do much for it and doesn't even ignore Poison Heal for the sake of its rivalry with Zangoose
Shiftry - kinda generic and has many things to compete with
Swanna (See Lumineon) - since when did Lumineon get Swift Swim? It had Lightning Rod and Simple before, if it kept Lighting Rod this wouldn't be an issue
Whiscash (See Bibarel) - rather reslate Bibarel, just one or the other
Arbok - needs that +10 SpA be put to better use
Beheeyem - has a wasted +45 Atk, but is great otherwise.
Chatot - just needs a better ability and a bit more Spe.
Carbink - would like some SpA especially considering it got Earth Power.
Cherrim - great concept, but less defenses and more Atk considering its typing and current itemless 105 Atk.
Chesnaught - questioning the ability. It's already solid and gets Drain Punch in ORAS, so I'm thinking Battle Armor for flavor.
Chimecho - might be biased, but I think it's great and flexible. any ideas are welcome.
Dedenne - Adaptability is good, maybe with less wasted Atk.
Hypno - outclassed by Poliwrath, I think Zap Cannon could fix that. Or just change Poliwrath since Hypno deserves to have 100% Hypnosis as its niche.
Jynx - wasted Atk
Mismagius - more wasted Atk. 10 for balance is okay, but 35 is ridiculous
Ninetails - still has an average speed, just 10 more would be perfect
Raticate - those defenses don't do a thing for it
Sawsbuck - why Fighting?
Sigilyph - Wonder Skin just sucks
Sunflora - love the idea of a bulky Drought user, just put 10 Atk into SpA.
Beheeyem - has a wasted +45 Atk, but is great otherwise.
Chatot - just needs a better ability and a bit more Spe.
Carbink - would like some SpA especially considering it got Earth Power.
Cherrim - great concept, but less defenses and more Atk considering its typing and current itemless 105 Atk.
Chesnaught - questioning the ability. It's already solid and gets Drain Punch in ORAS, so I'm thinking Battle Armor for flavor.
Chimecho - might be biased, but I think it's great and flexible. any ideas are welcome.
Dedenne - Adaptability is good, maybe with less wasted Atk.
Hypno - outclassed by Poliwrath, I think Zap Cannon could fix that. Or just change Poliwrath since Hypno deserves to have 100% Hypnosis as its niche.
Jynx - wasted Atk
Mismagius - more wasted Atk. 10 for balance is okay, but 35 is ridiculous
Ninetails - still has an average speed, just 10 more would be perfect
Raticate - those defenses don't do a thing for it
Sawsbuck - why Fighting?
Sigilyph - Wonder Skin just sucks
Sunflora - love the idea of a bulky Drought user, just put 10 Atk into SpA.
Yeah, I know, but I can't do that :/
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
I really like that idea, but just throwing my idea out there. I suggest an ability that makes all of Kricketune's Sound attacks physical along with giving a power boost to them (probably 30%). It's very similar to yours, but what becomes what is inverted.
And since Noivern gets Bug Buzz simply because it is a sound move, why not give Kricketune Boomburst? Maybe even give it part-Normal typing if STAB is necessary.
Physical, boosted sound moves sounds pretty nice, since no other Pokemon can boast that. It lets us focus on Kricketune's higher Attack, too, in addition to the bypassing subs and Protect.
Mismagius's huge Attack nerf was from its original ability Etheriate, which was Ghost-type Pixilate. The concept itself is fine, but we should either return its old ability or adjust its stats to fit the new one; Mismagius was one of the first Megas designed and tweaked, so it may be worth looking at it and its initial ability again in relation to later Megas.
Mismagius's huge Attack nerf was from its original ability Etheriate, which was Ghost-type Pixilate. The concept itself is fine, but we should either return its old ability or adjust its stats to fit the new one; Mismagius was one of the first Megas designed and tweaked, so it may be worth looking at it and its initial ability again in relation to later Megas.
Kudos for taking my acidic tone in stride. Yeah, the "utterly outclassed" part is probably what we want to focus on the most.
Mega Mantine
Ledian has the same attack stat as azumarill, is bulkier than rotom-w, and is faster than both. Not to mention it's godly move pool including instant recovery, coverage, and tons of support moves (including sticky webs!)
100/130 bulk with decent offensive power and Sticky Web alone is enough to warrant its use, since the current Pokemon with Sticky Web are either relatively frail, like Ariados or Galvantula, or laughably weak in attack, like Shuckle. 100 base Speed is nice, too, and to top it off Ledian gets recovery and a priority move to help it stay around some more. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Ledian is a great example of how we should handle making weaker Megas--it has a very strong, definite niche that cannot be filled by a Pokemon that isn't a Mega, but isn't so esoteric as to make it impractical (ie: how Mega Banette is really, really good at priority DB-ing, but it's such a tight niche that it doesn't really have a use even if Mega Gengar is banned). It is bulky with Sticky Web and recovery, has a usable Attack stat with priority and nice coverage, and a modified typing that helps it do its job (not doubly-SR weak) without altering flavor (it already learns five punching moves before we gave it the elemental punches) or making it outclassed (it does not compete at all with Mega Heracross, who is focused on Attack instead of a decent all-around Pokemon). Like I said previously, one of the things we learned from this project is that a Mega based solely on support almost never becomes viable; in this case, Sticky Web alone does not warrant Ledian's usage, as you could use Galvantula or even Ariados or Shuckle for the same purpose. However, bulk AND recovery, which is prized among Megas due to lack of items, as well as a decent Attack move it away from pure support so that it can stand on its own as well. Though I did submit the initial concept for Ledian, I don't think I'm being partial to it because the product we are currently looking at has been heavily modified from my original submission by just about every member of the old balancing committee. It's already been examined and reworked multiple times, and each time it's improved and become more and more unique. I honestly think that, while not a top-tier threat, we've managed to make Ledian a unique and practical Mega that fills a new niche in the metagame.
If you're really not sold on it quite yet, would giving it better STAB with Megahorn help? I can easily imagine Mega Ledian growing spikes on its body like how "thorny" beetles do.
Here's another thing we should be looking at:
Drought
Charizard Y | 78 104 78 159 115 100 634 |Fire / Flying | Drought
Shiftry | 90 100 80 110 80 120 580 |Grass/Flying | Drought | Leaf Blade, Air Slash, Heat Wave
Sunflora | 75 85 105 115 115 30 525 |Grass/Fire | Drought
Drizzle
Ludicolo |80 70 110 110 130 80 580| Water/Grass | Drizzle | Calm Mind
Pelipper |60 50 120 125 90 85 530 |Water / Flying |Drizzle | Thunder
Sand Stream
Mega Tyranitar
Snow Warning
Frost Rotom | 50 80 120 125 123 122 620 | Electric / Ice | Snow Warning | Wild Charge, Freeze Dry, Icy Wind
Abomasnow | 90 132 105 132 105 30 594 | Ice / Grass | Snow Warning
Articuno Y | 90 105 120 135 145 95 690 | Ice / Flying | Snow Warning | Aeroblast, Shadow Ball, Frost Breath
Kyurem | 125 150 90 165 125 105 760 | Dragon/Ice | Snow Warning
Ok, so I think we should look over the weather-starting abilities, some of them moreso than others. I'm actually OK with the Drought-setters, since they all occupy different niches; Charizard Y is a special attacker, Shiftry is a mixed speedy sweeper, and Sunflora is a bulky sun setter. I'm a bit more worried about the Drizzle Pokemon, since they both seem to be bulky special attackers. There are some stat differences and different typings, but Ludicolo and Pelipper may need some reworking. There is curiously only one Sand Stream Pokemon, Tyranitar, which means we went through the whole project and gave no Pokemon Sand Stream--we actually even ended up taking it away from Hippowdon, which I find sort of amusing. Snow Warning is what I'm most worried about--there are a total of 4 Pokemon with Snow Warning. I think most people agree that hail is the worst weather, yet in this project it has the most setters without any direct improvements to its viability. We obviously can't change Abomanow, so that leaves three Megas that all do the same thing, to varying degrees of success. Snow Warning isn't a particularly useful ability as it only is useful for chip damage and 100% accurate Blizzards; in my opinion, we could scrap Articuno Y as we have two of them, and alter either Rotom or Kyurem to have a different ability so that hail isn't so crowded.
If you're really not sold on it quite yet, would giving it better STAB with Megahorn help? I can easily imagine Mega Ledian growing spikes on its body like how "thorny" beetles do.
Here's another thing we should be looking at:
Drought
Charizard Y | 78 104 78 159 115 100 634 |Fire / Flying | Drought
Shiftry | 90 100 80 110 80 120 580 |Grass/Flying | Drought | Leaf Blade, Air Slash, Heat Wave
Sunflora | 75 85 105 115 115 30 525 |Grass/Fire | Drought
Drizzle
Ludicolo |80 70 110 110 130 80 580| Water/Grass | Drizzle | Calm Mind
Pelipper |60 50 120 125 90 85 530 |Water / Flying |Drizzle | Thunder
Sand Stream
Mega Tyranitar
Snow Warning
Frost Rotom | 50 80 120 125 123 122 620 | Electric / Ice | Snow Warning | Wild Charge, Freeze Dry, Icy Wind
Abomasnow | 90 132 105 132 105 30 594 | Ice / Grass | Snow Warning
Articuno Y | 90 105 120 135 145 95 690 | Ice / Flying | Snow Warning | Aeroblast, Shadow Ball, Frost Breath
Kyurem | 125 150 90 165 125 105 760 | Dragon/Ice | Snow Warning
Ok, so I think we should look over the weather-starting abilities, some of them moreso than others. I'm actually OK with the Drought-setters, since they all occupy different niches; Charizard Y is a special attacker, Shiftry is a mixed speedy sweeper, and Sunflora is a bulky sun setter. I'm a bit more worried about the Drizzle Pokemon, since they both seem to be bulky special attackers. There are some stat differences and different typings, but Ludicolo and Pelipper may need some reworking. There is curiously only one Sand Stream Pokemon, Tyranitar, which means we went through the whole project and gave no Pokemon Sand Stream--we actually even ended up taking it away from Hippowdon, which I find sort of amusing. Snow Warning is what I'm most worried about--there are a total of 4 Pokemon with Snow Warning. I think most people agree that hail is the worst weather, yet in this project it has the most setters without any direct improvements to its viability. We obviously can't change Abomanow, so that leaves three Megas that all do the same thing, to varying degrees of success. Snow Warning isn't a particularly useful ability as it only is useful for chip damage and 100% accurate Blizzards; in my opinion, we could scrap Articuno Y as we have two of them, and alter either Rotom or Kyurem to have a different ability so that hail isn't so crowded.
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Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
We could just leave Articuno Y, since Articuno already has a decent Mega that is X.
We should consider giving MegaQuagsire and MegaGastrodon Drizzle and Sand Stream (not necessarily Drizzle for Quagsire or vice versa), since they're both just underwhelming Regenerator Megas. We also don't have any bulky rain and sand setters (Tyranitar has better stats but a terrible defensive typing).
Frost Rotom has a bad defensive typing, but a great offensive typing. Snow Warning is an all-around bad ability for it, not to mention MegaKyurem occupies the same niche.
MegaLedian just needs a little more attack.
We should consider giving MegaQuagsire and MegaGastrodon Drizzle and Sand Stream (not necessarily Drizzle for Quagsire or vice versa), since they're both just underwhelming Regenerator Megas. We also don't have any bulky rain and sand setters (Tyranitar has better stats but a terrible defensive typing).
Frost Rotom has a bad defensive typing, but a great offensive typing. Snow Warning is an all-around bad ability for it, not to mention MegaKyurem occupies the same niche.
MegaLedian just needs a little more attack.
Guys, a fully invested ledian has a 458 attack stat, that's the same as a base 160. More than freaking mega absol.
Edit: The stat calculator I used was a lie, it's actually base 135 attack, which is the same as excadrill. Nvm I was right the first time.
Frost Rotom should probably be reslated, Articuno Y can just be dropped. They have very little use over kyurem (who kinda looks like he needs a nerf.)
Frost Rotom should probably be reslated, Articuno Y can just be dropped. They have very little use over kyurem (who kinda looks like he needs a nerf.)
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The Rotoms in general are sorta lame given they all get new moves; in principle I'm not against adding new moves, but the Rotoms' movesets seem pretty intentionally limited by GF and adding new non-Electric STABs seems pretty drastic. There's got to be a better way to improve them.
The reason we gave nobody Sand Stream is because sand is already viable and doesn't need any more setters. We removed it from Hippowdon so it could abuse its own sand as well, so I wouldn't worry about it.
If we wanted to buff hail and sun though, we'd be better off adding more abusers rather than more weather setters （mostly in the case of hail though.)
Why don't we change Rotom-F's ability to a hail version of swift swim (call it skater or something) then relocate some Spe into SpAtk.
They both needed more setters. Abomasnow, Aurorus, and Ninetales suck, and Char Y can't be relied on to set up sun constantly for its teammates because Stealth Rock and no extended duration.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Give Rotom-F a Sand Force variant. And since Sand Force boosts 3 types while a theorethical "Freeze Force" boosts only one, we could make the power boost significantly stronger.
Dude, Absol has an ability that bounces back any status move against it plus hazards. And its base form doesn't take 50% of damage from Stealth Rock.
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But Mega Absol is significantly less bulky, doesn't have recovery, and isn't able to set Sticky Web like Ledian. The Attack stat comparison was to show that Ledian's offense is respectable, but Ledian and Absol don't compete for a team's Mega slot in any way; they both fill drastically different niches in the metagame.
Dude, Ledian has a move that lowers the speed of anything that switches in. And its mega form doesn't take 100% of damage from any moderately powerful attack.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Indeed.
Eh, alright. I may be underestimating Sticky Web. We'll see how this goes.
EDIT: I just noticed something very unviable - Kabutops. The poor thing gets Hyper Cutter. It doesn't have overpowered stats at all to justify a bad ability like that.
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God, I remember changing its ability to hyper cutter for balance reasons but I have no memory as to why. Probably looks grotesquely underpowered due to power creep.
Tbh, we should probably revise broken megas before we buff weak ones so we have a clear line we know not to cross. If everything is trying to compete with Kyurem, things might get ugly.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Well, that's not what nightsitter planned, but you do have a point.
FireArrow's probably right. Keep in mind I'm not exactly the omnipotent leader of this project, I just run the thread and make a few decisions now that acestriker is RIP
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Yes, I'm aware.
Okay so I think I have a better idea of how this is gonna work. Please start discussing those Megas which you feel are the most powerful in their roles (tank, sweeper, wall, etc.) as well as those you think could be broken or pass the current benchmark of power, bulk or utility in the ORAS metagame. Write at least a few sentences regarding your thoughts. BOLD THE POKEMON YOU ARE DISCUSSING AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE SIMPLEST SOLUTION. This will help me compile a list of the community's thoughts. To start, I shall mention three:
Mega Lanturn is arguably the best defensive Mega that we have created in this project. We already know how great the Water/Electric typing is given the popularity of Rotom-W, but Lanturn takes it to a whole new level. 125/108/126 bulk backed with reliable recovery and only one weakness (it has Sap Sipper!) can wall virtually every non-setup Pokémon bar powerful Ground types. Scald/Volt Switch/Heal Bell/Recover is a frighteningly strong moveset, one that I think shouldn't be possible on such a bulky 'mon. I propose to remove Recover from its movepool.
Mega Kyurem possesses a fantastic stat distribution backed by ridiculously powerful mixed coverage which could easily tear any metagame to shreds. STAB Draco Meteor and a perfectly-accurate STAB Blizzard are not to be trifled with, and 150/165/105 offenses help him carry out the job. As if the sheer power weren't enough, Kyurem's versatility rivals that of Mega Lucario. Roost, Glaciate, Outrage, Flash Cannon, Stone Edge, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Iron Head, and Earth Power are all viable options to round out his moveset. Oh and yeah it has 125/90/125 defenses. I propose to change its ability to Mold Breaker.
Mega Raichu is something I really wanted to avoid. Sure its 60/120/75/120/80/120 stat distribution can seem a little lacking at first, but two things throw it over the top: Newfound compatibility of Fake Out and Extreme Speed in conjunction with Pixilate. FakeSpeedAte is one of the deadliest combinations in BH, and its use here could prove rather overwhelming. Even if you brought in a physical wall, it could always be running a special set with Nasty Plot, Hyper Voice, Thunderbolt and Surf. I realize that some things can wall it, but keep in mind that having checks/counters doesn't necessarily make something balanced. I propose to remove Surf and the compatibility of FakeSpeed.
Mega Lanturn is arguably the best defensive Mega that we have created in this project. We already know how great the Water/Electric typing is given the popularity of Rotom-W, but Lanturn takes it to a whole new level. 125/108/126 bulk backed with reliable recovery and only one weakness (it has Sap Sipper!) can wall virtually every non-setup Pokémon bar powerful Ground types. Scald/Volt Switch/Heal Bell/Recover is a frighteningly strong moveset, one that I think shouldn't be possible on such a bulky 'mon. I propose to remove Recover from its movepool.
Mega Kyurem possesses a fantastic stat distribution backed by ridiculously powerful mixed coverage which could easily tear any metagame to shreds. STAB Draco Meteor and a perfectly-accurate STAB Blizzard are not to be trifled with, and 150/165/105 offenses help him carry out the job. As if the sheer power weren't enough, Kyurem's versatility rivals that of Mega Lucario. Roost, Glaciate, Outrage, Flash Cannon, Stone Edge, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Iron Head, and Earth Power are all viable options to round out his moveset. Oh and yeah it has 125/90/125 defenses. I propose to change its ability to Mold Breaker.
Mega Raichu is something I really wanted to avoid. Sure its 60/120/75/120/80/120 stat distribution can seem a little lacking at first, but two things throw it over the top: Newfound compatibility of Fake Out and Extreme Speed in conjunction with Pixilate. FakeSpeedAte is one of the deadliest combinations in BH, and its use here could prove rather overwhelming. Even if you brought in a physical wall, it could always be running a special set with Nasty Plot, Hyper Voice, Thunderbolt and Surf. I realize that some things can wall it, but keep in mind that having checks/counters doesn't necessarily make something balanced. I propose to remove Surf and the compatibility of FakeSpeed.
Agreed. Recover could also make regular lanturn OU viable, which isn't something we want.
Ehh, snow warning is sums up the whole original concept (kinda ties into what clapyourhands brought up.) However, we can't really nerf it stat or movepool wise... let's at least keep the original flavor and give it some hail related ability. Ice body would be fine as it wouldn't be stupidly broken like a hail swift swim/sand force clone would be.
I think fakespeed is what Mega Raichu's niche is. Maybe just remove hypervoice and surf. That way you won't switch in a counter just to find out it was a nasty plot + hyper voice variant or something. It just doesn't have a high enough attack stat to break through resists (though it's probably the best revenge killer in the game.)
I remember suggesting to remove the Fairy type in the private conversation once I found that my submission had one. I think this would solve most of the problems with it on both the physical and special side without making it unviable.
I agree with removing Recover on Lanturn and giving Kyurem Mold Breaker.
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