XY OU Without A Fight - Hyper Offense

[CrashinBoomBang]

This is our time!
Without a doubt!
Time to ignite!
We're not going down!
Without a fight...

​

So, with me now being done with pretty much any kind of serious Pokemon'ing thanks to everything about it, from the game itself to a big part of its community, pissing me off, I decided that I'd post a RMT of some sort. While I do plan to stick around for a bit longer, I have no intention of playing Pokemon seriously ever again and, as such, will post the team that I and several other people have used to great success on both the ladder as well as in the tournament scene. ORAS is also right around the corner, so this is probably doubling as a "goodbye" to the XY OU metagame, probably the most fun and balanced metagame at this point in time, in my opinion at least. I myself reached a record of 57-8 with over 2000 points during the second OLT cycle before I got haxed twice (one of which was a mirror match against someone who jacked my own team), making me realize just how fucking terrible Pokemon and the Showdown community are. I then raced my ladder account into the ground by forfeiting 15 times in a row. SoulWind and McMeghan used this team a few times during their week 4 domination in Smogon Tour, which shows that it's not worthless on a high level of play either, while Destiny Device used a (bad) variation of it in his top 16 Smogon Tour playoffs game. Although very few people know what they're doing with this team (bringing us impressive feats such as people losing to that shitty team consisting of Heatran/Latios/Terrakion/Mega Scizor/Clefable/Slowbro), this team was really a sight to behold before people knew the exact moveset of each and every Pokemon and before there were about 150 people laddering with this team at once, and it felt like it could maneuver its way out of every difficult situation. While it may not look like a very special team these days, many of the sets were largely unpopular or unused before its creation. While Spikes Greninja and offensive Mega Scizor were both a "thing", no one made an effort to popularize either of them (shoutouts to Dekzeh for using the Scizor since the ban of Mega Lucario pretty much). However, now that all of the sets and jobs of each Pokemon are relatively well known, there's really no point in keeping anything about this team a secret anymore since it's absolutely everywhere on the ladder and loses a lot of its effectiveness with its surprise value gone.

This team actually has its roots in the short timeframe after Aegislash got banned but before Mega Mawile got banned. During the Smogon Frontier, I noticed that many offensive teams only had one fast Dark resist (mostly Keldeo), meaning that two users of Sucker Punch should, in theory, rip most offensive teams apart. Seeing how thats only two Pokemon, it also allowed me to build the rest of the team around supporting those two. Discussing this idea with my buddy Stathakis allowed us to come up with 4 other solid Pokemon to support that core and ultimately make the first version of this team, so he's pretty much the co-creator as far as I'm concerned. While this team obviously isn't a "double Sucker Punch" team anymore with Mawile gone, Scizor has in many ways usurped Mawile in its original role anyway, and Scizor appreciates Keldeo weakened as much as Mawile does.

-

Like I said, this team originally started out as a team with 2 users of the move Sucker Punch, so using the two strongest ones in Mega Mawile and Bisharp made sense. They both hate Keldeo, they both like Keldeo being weakened, and they're both pretty damn strong even against neutral targets. While they had overlapping weaknesses those were far from impossible to overcome and they also gave us some important resistances for an offensive team already (most notably, we already had a Ghost resist, a Fairy resist and two Dark resists, types your typical offensive team has trouble dealing with usually). From this point onwards we tried to go as offensive as possible, following a principle one of Stathakis' old teams in the DPP era also followed: Generating enough offensive pressure to both break more defensive teams as well as dissuading any offensive Pokemon from "setting up" on anything.

Adding hazard users next seemed to be the logical step. Sucker Punch is inherently a prediction- and risk-based move, so cutting down the amount of times your opponent can "predict" you via switching around was greatly appreciated. We went with Garchomp over anything else for its ability to pressure Lati@s and Skarmory better than Terrakion, while being a lot faster than, say, offensive Heatran. Focus Sash Garchomp is also notable for some of its incredible turn 1 matchups. It also beats every common Defogger barring Mandibuzz and Physically Defensive Zapdos, and those were very rare at that time (and still are). Stathakis wanted Spikes on the team to cut down switching even more, and I was sold on the idea immediately. Wanting a team that utilized Spikes Greninja for ages, thanks to its ability to use Spikes on a switch to a passive counter such as Chansey while beating every single Defogger out there, I just decided to give it a spin and we never looked back.

While weakening Keldeo is very important for this team, not having a switch-in for it at all just seemed silly. We also wanted some more resistances, most notably against Water, Fighting and Ground. Latios seemed like the perfect fit for its ability to not only provide those but also one of the best Keldeo checks in the tier and the ability to beat whatever it wants by virtue of its enormous Special Attack stat and movepoool. In our case, that was obviously Defoggers trying to get rid of the hazards.

At this point, we pretty much just wanted more resistances while also having a fast late-game cleaner which ideally could also revenge kill Pokemon should things go sour, since it's pretty much impossible to completely prevent setup in the extremely offensive XY OU metagame. In particular, we wanted extra Ground and Fighting resists, a good check to Excadrill and something to beat what our Sucker Punchers couldn't, most notably speed boosting Dark resists such as Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar. Landorus-T fit the bill perfectly, and the first version of the team was complete. While the team did have some problems such as a huge weakness to Bisharp and, ironically, the inability to efficiently break stalls because they were overprepared for Mawile, it was a really fun team to use and decently effective. It was a huge bad luck magnet, too, for some reason.

After Mawile got banned, Frontier ended and OLT started, I decided that I'd see if I could revamp this team for use in the second cycle of OLT. Offense was definitely the best style to ladder with and, this being probably my best take on offense at the time, I decided to revamp the team and make it work for in the current metagame. I also had the idea of using Life Orb Swords Dance regular Scizor at the time since it seemed to rip teams apart. Combining my need to replace Mawile with that very idea, I updated the team with an offensive version of Mega Scizor which seemed like the perfect fit in theory (and it pretty much was). Thus, the final version of the team was born.

Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock​

Garchomp is the best Stealth Rock user for this team because it performs well against the most common Defoggers and prevents any kind of early-game setup with its amazing power and type coverage. The set is as standard as it gets, with the possible exception of me choosing to use Dragon Claw over Outrage. Simply put, while Outrage's power is very useful, it gives way too many setup opportunities for Pokemon that I really don't want to see with a completely free turn such as Azumarill, Clefable, Bisharp and Mega Scizor. It also means that my opponent can't pull moves such as Defog into Outrage -> kill 1 HP Garchomp while I am unable to switch out or switch moves, meaning that I can't keep Stealth Rocks up as reliably as I'd like to. Swords Dance Garchomp never once crossed my mind as the extra power is generally not needed (I don't feel too threatened by Landorus-T and not threatened by Slowbro at all), and having a strong unboosted hit against Ferrothorn and especially Skarmory is incredibly useful for this team. The last notable thing about Garchomp is Rough Skin's ability to provide chip damage against foes such as Talonflame and making it easier to bring Landorus-T into range for an unboosted Sucker Punch or +1 Bullet Punch, as U-turn is undeniably their most used move. I've tried replacing Garchomp with Terrakion, but in the end not having the extra Ground and Dragon coverage hurt a lot, even if I could manage to keep up SR against Physically Defensive Zapdos and Mandibuzz now. Terrakion also had bigger problems against the Lati twins as they could effortlessly Defog against a 1 HP Terrakion and still manage to kill it off, something I really didn't want to deal with using a team like this.

Greninja (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Dark Pulse
- Spikes​

Greninja, together with Garchomp, forms a very potent duo in more than one way. While they both function as very effective and very reliable win conditions against frail, offensive teams in particular, they also offer something the rest of my team greatly benefits from: Hazards. While Garchomp mostly has a suicidial role on this team, trying to get up Stealth Rocks as early as possible while wearing away at the opponent, Greninja performs in a more opportunistic manner. While Spikes are certainly very helpful, I must evaluate whether Greninja's life is worth risking to get up a layer of Spikes or whether he is better off just attacking from the get-go. Should my opponent have many grounded Pokemon, in particular the ones I aim to wear down as much as possible (Mega Heracross, Keldeo and such), then trying to get up Spikes on predicted switches or in a suicidial fashion similar to Garchomp might be the best course of action. Should they have a team extremely weak to Greninja, such as your standard Sand Offense team, then Greninja is probably better off just using its amazing offensive prowess to smash holes into my opponents team or clean up lategame. While Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are pretty much a given on most Greninja sets, I opted for Hidden Power Grass and Spikes as my last two moves. Hidden Power Grass feels like the best option as it does huge damage to Azumarill, Rotom-W, Manaphy and, of course, Keldeo. Rotom and Manaphy are the reason why Hidden Power is chosen over Grass Knot, as Rotom can be quite annoying to wear down and nothing on my team really likes getting burnt while Manaphy is only really hit hard by Latios otherwise. I don't mind doing less damage to Keldeo or Azumarill as Azumarill is most likely 2HKO'd with hazards in play anyway and even one hit brings it into OHKO range for all 3 of Latios, Bisharp and Mega Scizor while Keldeo takes quite a lot from Hidden Power Grass, enough to easily push it into KO range for Bisharp's Sucker Punch. Dark Pulse is an interesting option if you feel like you need extra insurance against Mew. However, Mew is very beatable even with Hidden Power Grass and Keldeo becomes a huge problem if Latios goes down for whatever reason and you're stuck with Dark Pulse Greninja, which is why I believe Hidden Power is the overall best option. Spikes really don't need any explanation, they wear down many offensive Pokemon such as Ferrothorn or Keldeo who don't care one bit about Stealth Rock and can be quite a hassle to be up against. It also enables me, together with some clever thinking, to efficiently break almost any kind of stall which is enormous for a team that is supposed to have an even matchup against as many playstyles as possible.

Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite​

One of my main sweepers and probably the one who decides games against Balance and Offense most of the time. Offensive Mega Scizor was a really anti-metagame pick when I first used it on this team as very few teams were prepared for its combo of decent speed, enormous attack and great coverage. In fact, many teams found themselves crumbling after only a few turns because their supposed Scizor answer, mostly Specially Defensive Heatran, wasn't a Scizor answer anymore. The four moves and EV spread used are pretty simple, but there are some other possible options that come to mind. Knock Off is an option over Bug Bite, as it still easily OHKOs Slowbro after a Swords Dance boost while also dealing way more damage to Pokemon such as Thundurus and Zapdos than my other attacks. I find Knock Off to be an inferior option for quite a few reasons, though. First and foremost, you need a little bit more damage against Rotom-W which, with a team this offensive and reliant on hazards to wear down stuff, is harder to acquire than one might think. Mega Venusaur also has much less trouble tanking a +2 Bullet Punch than a +2 Bug Bite. While the former doesn't even OHKO offensive Mega Venusaur, the latter shreds even defensive versions, easily doing more than 70%. Zapdos and Thundurus also aren't very troublesome to this team, so I'd rather have the extra power offered by Bug Bite. The EV spread reaches 242 Speed after Mega Evolution, allowing me to outspeed Timid Magnezone and any Pokemon creeping on it. I should probably just max Speed to help in Scizor speed ties while also allowing me to outspeed slow-ish versions of Jirachi, Mew and Zapdos that circle around 244, though. I used to run a spread of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Speed with an Adamant nature which always survived two defensive Landorus-T Earthquakes after Stealth Rock, but with the huge surge of other Offensive Mega Scizor the speed became more important. Roost also seems like a nice option for more longevity but, on a team this offensive, I highly prefer the extra coverage and sweeping potential over a recovery move.

Bisharp (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head​

Similar to how Garchomp and Greninja form an effective hazard laying core, Scizor and Bisharp form an effective sweeping and wallbreaking core in conjunction with entry hazards. While Scizor provides a mix of power, bulk and good coverage, Bisharp is all about raw power. Its Sucker Punch is monstrously powerful when backed up by the boost granted by Life Orb as well as STAB, and pretty much OHKOs pretty much anything that doesn't resist it after a Swords Dance boost. Even some Pokemon that do resist Dark, such as Greninja and Breloom, will not be able to withstand its immense power after taking damage from Stealth Rock + Spikes. Knock Off and Iron Head are in a similar boat and, likewise, destroy pretty much everything after only a single boost. This raw power makes Bisharp effective at both early-game wallbreaking and late-game sweeping, depending on the opposing lineup. A Jolly nature if chosen instead of an Adamant one as the extra speed (beating Timid Magnezone, Adamant Dragonite, and pretty much every defensive Landorus-T/Rotom-W) is more important than the extra power due to this team's focus on hazards. It also allows my own Bisharp to, at worst, speed-tie with opposing Bisharp which is way more useful than one might think as not much else on my team really likes dealing with Dark attacks. There's really not much else to say about Bisharp; while he has fallen off in usage and viability after the Aegislash ban, it's still a very fearsome force, especially with many teams opting to use Scarf Landorus-T and Manectric nowadays - the kind of teams Bisharp absolutely has no problems dealing with.

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Roost​

Latios is a Pokemon that requires no introduction, as everyone should know what it plays like by now. In conjunction with Spikes Greninja, Latios is probably my best attempt at breaking Stall teams with Quagsire, which is surprisingly easy considering that everything that somewhat wants to switch into this set (Chansey, SDef Heatran, SDef Doublade), is absolutely destroyed by Spikes. While Scizor is another viable option to take on those teams thanks to its ability to bring down Quagsire with only a little prior damage, it has more things to muscle through than Latios, making Scizor the inferior choice most of the time. It's also my one "true" switchin to Keldeo which is incredibly important for a team that can't really take it on in many other ways. The set is fairly standard, although it does not include Roost since this team is very hazard centric. When I thought about what Latios set to use, having 0 Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and being pretty reliant on my own hazards, it was never even a question whether I should use defog or not. I ultimately decided on the combination of Roost and Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt gives me constant damage against targets such as Heatran and Doublade while also foiling Defog attempts from Skarmory and Mandibuzz once it takes a little bit of prior damage, which is incredibly important. Roost pretty much just amplifies my stallbreaking potential as I can now outlive any Stall team as most of them frantically start switching around in an attempt to Life Orb stall me, and also gives me recovery in games where I can't really start breaking past their core right away, which can be the case if they have Clefable or Ferrothorn for example. I used other moves in the past, such as Memento over Roost (which I never really used even though it sounds great on paper), and Healing Wish over Psyshock/Thunderbolt. While they were cool ideas, ultimately this Latios set is the one that worked out the best. Hidden Power [Fire] is still a strong option over Thunderbolt as Ferrothorn and Scizor can be quite annoying to this team, but I prefer not making my matchup against Gengar even worse. Psychic is a pitiful option over Psyshock as 96 SDef Calm Clefable (the only one I'm worried about) actually takes more from Psyshock, whereas Psychic makes you completely incapable of breaking stall since you can't threaten Chansey. It's only useful against Physically Defensive Venusaur, and even there its utility doesn't come into play 95% of the time as most of them will simply switch out anyway.

Landorus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower​

Another incredibly standard Pokemon, but there's no reason to fix what isn't broken. As self-explanatory as Scarf Landorus-T is, one might question its place on a team that wants to "not give anything setup". Basically, I don't bring out Landorus-T unless it can pull off a sweep late-game or unless I really need to, such as when there is a +1 Mega Gyarados on the field and my other options for dealing with it (mostly Mega Scizor) have already died. If I do, then it's almost a guarantee that I will U-turn as to preserve momentum and bring out one of my other Pokemon safely, which in many cases is preferred to killing something and becoming free setup for something else. Only when the coast is clear, or when you really need something gone right then and there either because it walls something important on your team or because it's about to sweep you, should you consider using any of the other three moves. In any case, having Landorus-T not only as a cleaner but also as sort of a backup plan for setup sweepers is definitely preferable to being swept as early as turn 5. There's also no better Choice Scarf user as Excadrill is a huge threat and Intimidate is immensely useful when dealing with Pokemon such as Talonflame. And that doesn't even go into extra stuff Landorus provides such as an immunity to Thunder Wave or, most of all, U-turn. Superpower is my preferred choice over Knock Off as, while Knock Off is really useful when dealing with Lati@s and even more importantly, Gengar, I just prefer Superpower to do more lasting damage to Ferrothorn as well as guaranteeing that +1 Mega Gyarados won't sweep me. It also means I don't have to U-turn against Air Balloon Excadrill, which would allow it to do some massive damage to my whole team while I just fuck around; Superpower just takes care of it right away. The other three moves are standard for a reason, so there's not much to say; Rock Slide is an option if you don't want to OHKO Thundurus or Dragonite or regular Pinsir after Stealth Rock, Adamant is an option if you want to lose.

Mawile (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Fire Fang​

While Mawile was, obviously, very strong at the time I used it, Scizor arguably added more to the team than Mawile ever did. Between reliable priority and being able to handle Heatran, Clefable and especially Bisharp a lot better, the only things Mawile had going for it were a Rock resist as well as the bulk and typing to handle Defensive Mega Scizor with ease. Although Mawile was obviously never a bad Pokemon on this team, I'm glad that it got banned and could make room for Scizor.

Rain is definitely the biggest threat to this team, as well as a nightmare to every other Hyper Offensive team out there. There's really nothing you can do if they have Kingdra except pray to pull off a Bisharp lategame sweep, which obviously becomes impossible if you're facing that rain team with Mega Heracross. The biggest threat by far, and one that is impossible to address, so whatever.

If Mew is faster than Bisharp, then most of my team is getting burned in the process of beating this thing. Much easier to handle with Lum Berry Bisharp or Dark Pulse Greninja, but I prefer consistency over handling a single threat that's not on every team. It's not unbeatable by any means, but a skilled player using Mew probably has a huge matchup advantage. Trying to burn it with Garchomp's Fire Blast isn't out of the question either if it's that dire. If you can force it out once, though, it's generally not coming in again.

Bulky versions require me to bring in my own Scizor as soon as possible to set up alongside it and deal heavy damage with Superpower. Incredibly threatening lategame as it can win 1 on 1 against half my team while completely shutting down Latios and Landorus-T. Offensive versions are less of a problem, though.

Choice Band versions are by far the least threatening to this team, and the ones I love to see. Going into Landorus-T and then into Bisharp usually brings it down to around 20% if Stealth Rocks are up, so I'm not too troubled by it. Garchomp's Rough Skin also helps if it's still alive. However, as Landorus-T is usually my standard response as soon as Talonflame is out, I'm very prone to getting burned by SDef versions which can be disastrous. As such, figuring out which version you're facing is the most important aspect. Swords Dance versions are by far the worst as they have huge lategame sweeping potential against this team, and can only really be stopped by a full health Landorus-T or Bisharp winning a 50-50.

Only Jolly Dragon Dancers, really. Tailwind is also a problem, but most of them have to rely on Outrage to take out Latios which makes everything a lot easier. Adamant Dragon Dancers are taken out by Landorus-T, but Jolly Charizard X with Roost can potentially 6-0 this team if played very well.

Not as much of a threat as it used to be just because I learned how to handle it by now and because it's not too common. It's just really annoying to not be able to get up Stealth Rocks early game, as Mandibuzz stops any of that right away.

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Cores consisting of Bisharp counter + Scizor counter + Greninja counter can be pretty tough to break for obvious reasons, although it becomes a lot easier if they're weak to Latios. Most of them utilize Clefable or Ferrothorn, though, so it can be pretty hard to break past them.

Special shoutouts to Ferrothorn as it can be rather difficult to kill if played well and they have the insurance to not get swept by Scizor (via Talonflame, for example). Conkeldurr by itself is also almost impossible to switch into for this team and stops Bisharp cold, although they usually spam Knock Off more than anything giving me easy Rough Skin + EQ damage with Garchomp. If you want a definite core that's probably beating this team, Clefable/Ferrothorn/Keldeo is incredibly hard to outmaneuver as Clefable beats Latios/Landorus/Garchomp, Ferrothorn beats Greninja and Keldeo beats Scizor/Bisharp. If they have another way or two of handling either Bisharp or Keldeo, so they don't have to rely on it as their only answer, then there's not too much you can do.

Other ones, such as Azumarill or Gengar, can be hard to switch into but don't really present a problem to my overall strategy. Gengar can back Bisharp into a corner with either Substitute or Will-o-Wisp though. Mega Venusaur can be annoying if it's of the physially defensive variety, but it usually gets worn down trying to wall either of my main sweepers.

Some people say that Greninja is a problem, but I just can't see it considering that I have a Focus Sash Garchomp, a Greninja that at worst speed ties, a Scarf Landorus-T as well as two priority users, both of which OHKO if it turns into an Ice type and a Bisharp that OHKOs even resistant Greninja with +2 Sucker Punch after SR and one turn of Life Orb recoil. It also can't come in on anything at all. If anything, I'm proud that I'm way less weak to Greninja than most offensive teams can claim to be. Zapdos also isn't a problem because it's way easier to wear down than Mandibuzz thanks to its lack of bulk, and +2 Bisharp against Zapdos forces them to either have a Quagsire or lose something, so it's not like they can effectively Defog and/or Roost up against anything on my team really. At least Mandibuzz can somewhat hold off Bisharp with its resistance to Knock Off.

Overall, I can say that this is definitely one of the better teams I have made in XY. I am not someone who builds teams often or efficiently, so having teams work over a long duration like this one made me pretty happy. While the team, obviously, doesn't work as well as it used to, I'm still wholeheartedly happy with its performance over the past month, and it achieved so much I never expected a "simple Hyper Offense team" to achieve in a metagame dominated so much by Bulky Offense/Balance. Shoutouts to ium for the amazing art, it looks really, really fucking great and you are honestly one of the best artists I know buddy n_n. Also shoutouts to all my buddies on here who helped me test and whom I used to play Pokemon with and still talk to a lot, you know who you are and you're the only reason I'm even still on this site. I also hope that less experienced players can learn from this team and take something away from it for their own teambuilding and such. Thanks for reading.

Importable

Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Greninja (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Spikes

Scizor (F) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Bisharp (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Roost

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower

 

[MANNAT]

Here is my rate for this team.
Scizor: technician>light metal because the added power before mega evolving is generally preferred.

Landorus: Set is ok

Garchomp: ^

Latios: you may want to run memento to give your sweepers chance to set up on the opponent.

Greninja: HP grass is never needed and you should always pick dark pulse. However, you may want to go for low kick over DP for coverage against ttar and the many steel types in the tier.

Bisharp: Lum Berry/Black Glasses>Life orb. Lum berry can give you a chance to absorb burn/sleep without being crippled for the rest of the game. Black glasses can boost the power of your dark attacks without draining your HP.

 

[AM]

Here is my rate for this team.
Scizor: technician>light metal because the added power before mega evolving is generally preferred.

Landorus: Set is ok

Garchomp: ^

Latios: you may want to run memento to give your sweepers chance to set up on the opponent.

Greninja: HP grass is never needed and you should always pick dark pulse. However, you may want to go for low kick over DP for coverage against ttar and the many steel types in the tier.

Bisharp: Lum Berry/Black Glasses>Life orb. Lum berry can give you a chance to absorb burn/sleep without being crippled for the rest of the game. Black glasses can boost the power of your dark attacks without draining your HP.

Light Metal on Scizor is for the off chance of providing a useless ability to Trace mons such as Gardevoir, M-Alakazam, Porygon2, etc. This suggestion is redundant anyways cause Scizor will be mega evolving, so light metal is preferred for a couple of reasons above along with others that weren't specified.

Memento on Latios reduces coverage and makes the team susceptible to Bisharp. The team itself has enough synergy and opportunities to allow set up opportunities.

Reason for HP Grass was clearly specified in the rate and is definitely worth the slash.

Hidden Power Grass feels like the best option as it does huge damage to Azumarill, Rotom-W, Manaphy and, of course, Keldeo. Rotom and Manaphy are the reason why Hidden Power is chosen over Grass Knot, as Rotom can be quite annoying to wear down and nothing on my team really likes getting burnt while Manaphy is only really hit hard by Latios otherwise. I don't mind doing less damage to Keldeo or Azumarill as Azumarill is most likely 2HKO'd with hazards in play anyway and even one hit brings it into OHKO range for all 3 of Latios, Bisharp and Mega Scizor while Keldeo takes quite a lot from Hidden Power Grass, enough to easily push it into KO range for Bisharp's Sucker Punch.

Team is reliant on its offensive synergy and power output so Life Orb is pretty important for consistency purposes on Bisharp. I mean if you're really worried about Mew then sure but you now lose out on handling quite a few threats more easily for one mon that can lose to continuous offensive pressure anyways.

I mean it's really nitpicky CBB but my OCD always implements the 0 IVs in attack on special attackers. Anyways fantastic team and my only advice would be to players using the team to stop changing movesets for very redundant reasons such as Knock Off > Superpower when and Dark Pulse > HP Grass when that just makes the team weak to M-Gyarados. Great job man.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

can't believe I forgot the importable, I added it now!!

AM covered everything I was going to say pretty much, I gave Memento a try before but I used it maybe once in 50 battles. Ultimately, I just changed the set and the more I used the current Latios set the more I felt it was the right choice. I considered Lum Berry before as well but considering that it still won't allow you to switch into Mew safely (aka still requires you to come in on a move thats not WoW/Softboiled) I always felt it was the inferior option, especially as it is once again just limited to one Pokemon much like Dark Pulse on Greninja. It also makes my matchup against all the Pokemon in my threat list bar Mew even worse as I rely on its raw power a lot. In particular, Mandibuzz will be almost insurmountable without the boost that Life Orb grants to Iron Head, and Pokemon such as Venusaur/Clefable become bigger problems as well just to do better against one threat (as Rotom-W takes upwards of 80% from +2 Life Orb Knock Off anyway so having a Lum Berry is kind of pointless). I just doesn't feel worth it, and if I was to make the team less weak to Mew I'd probably just run Dark Pulse Greninja as stated.

Also AM I do have 0 Attack IVs on both Greninja and Latios, I just accessed the Pokemon Online teambuilder instead of the Pokemon Showdown teambuilder (which doesn't put IVs in your importable), so they just don't show up there haha. Thanks for reminding me, though, I'll fix it right now.

 

[AD impish john]

This is the best team I have ever seen. But here are some suggestions Jolly on bisharp is not that good, use adamant it hits way harder. I know you wont like this one but it works, give scizor u-turn it is for switching when magnezone is out, I know bug bite is better but just saying. Lando can be a stealth rocker and garchomp can sweep more give chomp a scarf an its OP, Lando should have leftovers with SR to keep it living. Give Latios hp fire for ferrothorns that get in your way. If you dont want hp fire on latios give it greninja. That is all I have to say and cute pictures.

 

[Clone]

This is the best team I have ever seen. But here are some suggestions Jolly on bisharp is not that good, use adamant it hits way harder. I know you wont like this one but it works, give scizor u-turn it is for switching when magnezone is out, I know bug bite is better but just saying. Lando can be a stealth rocker and garchomp can sweep more give chomp a scarf an its OP, Lando should have leftovers with SR to keep it living. Give Latios hp fire for ferrothorns that get in your way. If you dont want hp fire on latios give it greninja. That is all I have to say and cute pictures.

Ummm...

He said why jolly was used in the RMT lol. Specific threats he mentioned were Adamant DNite, Timid Magnezone, and most importantly, defensive Landorus T as they can post problems for the team otherwise. And the power is negligible when he's using an SD set with a LO attached, which hits harder than the standard Adamant Black Glasses set.

U-Turn and SD are completely contradictory and should never be used. And what good does U-Turn do for switching out when he KO es Magnezone regardless? It makes no sense at all.

Also switching Garchomp and Lando T up is a bad suggestion. Lando T does not have the speed or typing to pose the immediate threat against common defoggers that chomp does, and chomp is a relatively mediocre scarfer these day due to a lack of a momentum grabbing move, which is something Lando at has in U-Turn.

HP fire is probably the only decent suggestion you made, but even then it still doesn't do anything for him when he's explained why he doesn't use it in detail. TL;dr is Gengar becomes more of an issue for Latios, and Greninja simply does not have the moveslot to abuse it. Besides, both Chomp, Scizor, and Lando T all take care of Ferrothorn thanks to fire blast and Superpower, respectively.

 

[Jukain]

Hey there CBB. This is obviously a very successful team and it's pretty hard to suggest any changes for that don't completely change the fabric of the team or make it weaker to other threats. Overall this is a really solid offensive team and pretty indicative of the (soon to be ending) late XY metagame. If you want to try and take care of your rain weakness you could try something like AV Azumarill with enough Speed to outrun Clefable > Bisharp, which manages to give you a fighting chance against rain by checking Kingdra and also helping with Kabutops. It also provides you with another check to Excadrill and a real answer to Gyarados, so you can run Knock Off > Superpower on Landorus-T with that if you really want to. Furthermore, it's a decent check to Greninja (you handle this well, but this is better insurance), makes it less tough to handle Mandibuzz, fares well against AV Conkeldurr, makes fast Balloon Trans less annoying, and provides a secondary check to Keldeo. This change makes you a bit more stall weak and a tad Clefable weak though some Speed definitely helps with that, so I absolutely understand if you don't want to take it, but if you're seriously interested in not autolosing to rain with Kingdra, it's a viable option. Just a thought.

Azumarill

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe (this creeps up on 12 Spe Clefable which is nice because people like to creep a little bit)
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Though it's clear that you like Thunderbolt on Latios, I think Hidden Power Fire is a very usable option because just as you said Ferrothorn paired with the right partners can be a massive pain to take down. It also helps with opposing Scizor.

I think Dark Pulse Greninja is the best option for this team because Mew is in general a problem and Dark Pulse Greninja, especially in combination with your hazard stacking, makes it significantly less of an issue. Mew is very common at the moment and very threatening, so it's worth accounting for. It's not the worst idea to run HP Grass or Grass Knot (you do a lot of damage to Rotom-W if you run Dark Pulse so Grass Knot definitely becomes plausible) over Ice Beam, as Dark Pulse still hits Latios and the combination of Hydro Pump + HP Grass + Dark Pulse hits most of the Pokemon that Ice Beam does. The only Pokemon you really lose the ability to threaten are Breloom and Dragonite, but you can take care of both of these, neither would even think of switching in, Breloom doesn't tank a Hydro Pump well anyways, and having Grass + Dark coverage is a useful asset.

 

[tab]

lol nerd

 

[HeIIraiser]

Awesome team cbb. I believe user Destiny Device, Smogon Tour semifinalist, used a simmilar version of this team in r1 of ST playoffs.
Like many other players, I also stole this team to achieve #1 in the glorious Pokémon Showdown ladder and used its Mega Mawile version to win the finals of a brazilian tournament.

Nevertheless, in my version I used Latios with Hidden Power Fire > Thunderbolt and Memento > Roost. This worked better in ladder, which at the time was full of Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn bulky teams. I didn't feel like Roost was very needed on ladder either, and Memento got me many late game sweeps with Mega Scizor/Bisharp as well as stopping pokémons like Mega Pinsir and Dragonite from sweeping in situations where Latios was -2 (after a Draco Meteor). Of course I missed not being max speed to get that speed tie against Latias/Latios/Gengar (and often had to send Bisharp and go for a likely 50/50 on the following turn) and the rare Mandibuzz on ladder got way more annoying to face. It really depends a lot on what kind of player your facing, but I just wanted you to keep in mind this possible moveset.

I also like to use this spread on Mega Scizor: EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
It allows it to outspeed Jolly Azumarill (Belly Drum moveset), Modest (non Choice Scarf) Magnezone and standard Rotom-W, reaching 220 on Speed stat.
It also has enough bulky to survive a Hidden Power Fire from Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone most of the times. Not that Magnezone is a threat, but I find it good to punish it for trying to trap you.
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 264-312 (84.8 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Anyway, nice team.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Hey there CBB. This is obviously a very successful team and it's pretty hard to suggest any changes for that don't completely change the fabric of the team or make it weaker to other threats. Overall this is a really solid offensive team and pretty indicative of the (soon to be ending) late XY metagame. If you want to try and take care of your rain weakness you could try something like AV Azumarill with enough Speed to outrun Clefable > Bisharp, which manages to give you a fighting chance against rain by checking Kingdra and also helping with Kabutops. It also provides you with another check to Excadrill and a real answer to Gyarados, so you can run Knock Off > Superpower on Landorus-T with that if you really want to. Furthermore, it's a decent check to Greninja (you handle this well, but this is better insurance), makes it less tough to handle Mandibuzz, fares well against AV Conkeldurr, makes fast Balloon Trans less annoying, and provides a secondary check to Keldeo. This change makes you a bit more stall weak and a tad Clefable weak though some Speed definitely helps with that, so I absolutely understand if you don't want to take it, but if you're seriously interested in not autolosing to rain with Kingdra, it's a viable option. Just a thought.

Azumarill

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe (this creeps up on 12 Spe Clefable which is nice because people like to creep a little bit)
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Hey, sorry that I didn't reply to this until now, it's been a few busy days. The main problem I have with Azumarill is that it makes my Talonflame (and Gengar) weakness even worse, as now I just lose a Pokemon to CB Brave Bird every time (unlike with Bisharp where I can at least go to Landorus-T -> Bisharp to force it out) and can't even 50 50 SD Talonflame latagame, which is a huge problem. It also replaces Bisharps super powerful Life Orb Sucker Punch with Aqua Jet which is less than half as strong - Excadrill actually takes more from Bisharps Sucker Punch than from Azumarills Aqua Jet.

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 250-294 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 240-284 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sand teams in general can't really handle the combination of Scizor/Bisharp/Greninja, so I don't think I really need insurance against them anyway. While having an extra Gyarados check is nice, I don't think my team really requires it as I also have Mega Scizor to fall back onto, not to mention the Pokemon that is currently up against the (most likely) at 75% Gyarados. Conkeldurr is a fair point, and thats probably the main reason (apart from rain) that I'd use Azumarill for - Mandibuzz doesn't really care as it can just Defog and then go out to their designated Azumarill counter, as it's most likely a bulkier team able to take AVest Azumarill without big problems. Bisharp on the other hand basically forces something to die if they don't have Quagsire. Another perk of Bisharp is being able to at least threaten Mega Venusaur, Azumarill just gives it too many free switchins which I can't really afford when my "counter" is Latios. It does okay against rain but, at the end of the day, I think I'll take the general utility and power provided by Bisharp over the better matchup against rain/Conkeldurr given to me by Azumarill as I like covering as many threats as possible over covering certain, semi-common playstyles better.

Though it's clear that you like Thunderbolt on Latios, I think Hidden Power Fire is a very usable option because just as you said Ferrothorn paired with the right partners can be a massive pain to take down. It also helps with opposing Scizor.

Yeah, HP Fire Latios is definitely the change I'd make if I were to change something. Scizor is on the rise currently, and Ferrothorn isn't going down any time soon either apparently, so it would be really nice to make myself less weak to those two. The only problem with it is that it makes my Mandibuzz weakness even worse and lets "SDef" Heatran with enough speed for Scizor do whatever it wants basically, which really isn't all that uncommon with Scizor being absolutely everywhere. Thunderbolt allows me to at least try and trade against it via Latios whereas HP Fire/Psyshock/Draco really doesn't do much against it. Nonetheless, I do realize that Hidden Power Fire is definitely a very strong option, probably even on equal terms with Thunderbolt (if not better!) so that one is definitely up to personal preference.

I think Dark Pulse Greninja is the best option for this team because Mew is in general a problem and Dark Pulse Greninja, especially in combination with your hazard stacking, makes it significantly less of an issue. Mew is very common at the moment and very threatening, so it's worth accounting for. It's not the worst idea to run HP Grass or Grass Knot (you do a lot of damage to Rotom-W if you run Dark Pulse so Grass Knot definitely becomes plausible) over Ice Beam, as Dark Pulse still hits Latios and the combination of Hydro Pump + HP Grass + Dark Pulse hits most of the Pokemon that Ice Beam does. The only Pokemon you really lose the ability to threaten are Breloom and Dragonite, but you can take care of both of these, neither would even think of switching in, Breloom doesn't tank a Hydro Pump well anyways, and having Grass + Dark coverage is a useful asset.

I actually thought about this one a lot, and it does sound like a pretty good idea in paper. However, I think I'd still stick to Ice Beam/HPump/HP Grass or Dark Pulse for the simple reason that I really don't want to give Grass types, Mega Venusaur and Chesnaught in particular (and Mandibuzz although it's not a Grass type) even more free switchins. Chesnaught in particular is incredibly annoying as it basically forces me to go to Latios on the Leech Seed, making it very dangerous if they have some way to take advantage of it (such as that one team made by Tesung which utilizes Chesnaught + Clefable). I think I'd still prefer not being able to hit Keldeo/Azumarill/Rotom-W as hard as all of them are pretty easy to wear down, in stark contrast to the targets hit by Ice Beam and Dark Pulse. Again, Dark Pulse is obviously a very strong option over HP Grass, but I don't think I'd ever replace Ice Beam as the guaranteed 2HKO on Mega Venusaur after SR + Spikes in particular is just too good to pass up, in addition to all the other targets hit by Ice Beam and Ice just being a fantastic offensive type in general.

Thanks for the rate.

Awesome team cbb. I believe user Destiny Device, Smogon Tour semifinalist, used a simmilar version of this team in r1 of ST playoffs.
Like many other players, I also stole this team to achieve #1 in the glorious Pokémon Showdown ladder and used its Mega Mawile version to win the finals of a brazilian tournament.

Indeed he did, it was pretty funny how he wasn't even aware it was mine until after the game.
I also was not aware of your win in the brazilian tournament with the old version, glad it worked for you!

Nevertheless, in my version I used Latios with Hidden Power Fire > Thunderbolt and Memento > Roost. This worked better in ladder, which at the time was full of Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn bulky teams. I didn't feel like Roost was very needed on ladder either, and Memento got me many late game sweeps with Mega Scizor/Bisharp as well as stopping pokémons like Mega Pinsir and Dragonite from sweeping in situations where Latios was -2 (after a Draco Meteor). Of course I missed not being max speed to get that speed tie against Latias/Latios/Gengar (and often had to send Bisharp and go for a likely 50/50 on the following turn) and the rare Mandibuzz on ladder got way more annoying to face. It really depends a lot on what kind of player your facing, but I just wanted you to keep in mind this possible moveset.

Yeah like I said, Hidden Power Fire is on par with, if not better than, Thunderbolt and is definitely the strongest possible change on this team. I like Roost just because it guarantees that you can switch into stuff such as Venusaur and Keldeo for as long as possible, and it also means Stall teams can't just LO stall you. I had Memento originally, but I never actually used which led me to drop it eventually, but I guess it's something to keep in mind. Losing speed ties sucks, but yeah HP Fire is definitely something to test out more. I think I still prefer the longevity and utility offered by Roost over the utility offered by Memento, though. I can see why it's good on ladder though![/quote]

I also like to use this spread on Mega Scizor: EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
It allows it to outspeed Jolly Azumarill (Belly Drum moveset), Modest (non Choice Scarf) Magnezone and standard Rotom-W, reaching 220 on Speed stat.
It also has enough bulky to survive a Hidden Power Fire from Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone most of the times. Not that Magnezone is a threat, but I find it good to punish it for trying to trap you.
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 264-312 (84.8 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Anyway, nice team.

Bulkier Mega Scizor is definitely an option if people ever stopped spamming this team on ladder, as my spread was really just to outspeed as many Scizor as possible at some point lol. I think I mentioned this in my RMT, but I used to use a bulkier spread consisting of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe myself, allowing you to tank 2 Earthquakes from defensive Landorus-T after Stealth Rock. After almost never getting to use it and facing waaaay too many opposing Scizor, I decided to give it more speed, though. Bulkier Scizor sounds quite interesting however, I'm only scared of not being able to outspeed as many Heatran anymore (as they either have a lot of Speed or a lot of SDef, meaning that either Latios or Scizor can break through them at some point respectively), which can get annoying against some teams. Still, this is also something to try out.

Thanks for the rate as well.