Metagame np: Stage 3 - 9(9) Problems

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jake

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We're going to set up a quickban vote as a council, and the first vote will be held in approximately one week (roughly the 30th). I will announce what is to be tested in a few days' time, after we've all had a chance to settle in the metagame. If any of our quickbanned (if we end up quickbanning any) Pokemon aren't banned by other tiers, we will consider testing them at a later point in time in a specific order, one at a time. I have minimal qualms with banning multiple things at once. If you have anything you'd like to bring up with me about our test or anything specific to ask about it, feel free to PM me and if it's important to let everyone know I'll post it itt.

To clarify: the NU Council will be voting on the quickbans. If there are retests, the voting will more than likely be opened to the public, too (but don't take that as confirmed until I actually confirm it).

You are free to talk about the strengths and "ban-worthy" qualities of Pokemon, as well as debate about their checks and counters, but I don't want to see any whining or baseless bullshitting one-liners ("Mega Beedrill is broken because I run mono-Psychic" "Shedinja is the only thing that checks Mega Sceptile" etc). If you're complaining, you're wrong. Don't be whiny wienerheads. That is all.
 
So I'm just gonna leave some thoughts and feelings right here about the meta and what i think about it with the addition of some new megas and a few changes to movesets ^_^
Let me start with the megas:

Mega-Altaria;
First impressions of this thing, it's hard to stop if it gets going, it takes little effort to use, it's 1000x harder to play against than anything else in the tier. it's typing means it's a switch in to fighting, no more rocks weakness, reliable recovery (which is godly for its defense stats) along with heal bell + dragon dance. This thing is a monster, a complete fluffy monster that in my opinion is far too good for NU, it's a mini-mence that has better typing. It has OU potential, not sure why it should ever stay around, have fun abusing! xD

Mega-Sceptile;
In my opinion, trying to build any team right now in NU is so centralising to the fact that this grass dragon that is no longer checks by physically defensive poison types or dragon types means it's so so so hard to beat. Its base speed is really fast, it can even outspeed modest gorebyss after a shell smash with max speed timid/jolly. It has no set "counter" in my opinion but only a few checks, (I'm going to ignore things like maril). Things like hariyama, muk, mega-audino do a good job at checking, however the set variety is so big since it can run SD + EQ to beat these special checks and could even run mixed with leaf storn minimal speed investment because it's already so fast and bop the switch ins xD It's really a good mon, does sorta lack a bit of power to get the final kills it needs though since no life orb but still a reaalllyyy good mon and probably the most threatening mon behind altaria when team building imo. Although there is sheddy to beat it reliably however it needs so much support that I just don't want to build a sheddy team personally xD

Mega-Lopunny;
Now i've heard a few people say it should be quickbanned, but from personal experience and use of the pokemon, it's not thaaatttt good o.o Psychic types beat it very well, like musharna, uxie etc since it has no knock off to spam! I know from experience that this means it's not even that threatening and it goes back to the BW2 meta where musharna countered sawk etc, it's basically the same with this mon xD along with that, you also have poison types like weezing, garbodor, that can take hits (not as well as a defensive musharna or uxie) but they are still answers. As well as this, it's slower than both mega-sceptile, mega-beedrill which puts it in an annoying speed tier in comparison. If you take those 2 megas out, it destroys all offense :L But as far as I'm concerned, there are stops to this mon and they can put in work! So I'd put it behind sceptile and altaria on how good i think it is xD

Mega-Beedrill;
Now again with this mon, it's very very weird and odd. From both using it and playing against it, it's annoying. If it manages to get a reliable mega off, it's an absolute pain and complete momentum booster for offensive teams in general and shits on teams without a weezing. It seems however i don't think i could fit it on balance since it's far too frail, it would never be a switch in to a CC or fighting types since it's just too frail to risk the knock off or coverage move with paper thin defenses. But on the other side, if you can't mega it up, it's almost useless. You may have to be forced to use protect on it to do any damage to teams reliable which cuts its versatility with coverage moves, but who cares when you have dual stab adaptability. Along with this, there are also a couple of set ideas I've noticed, since it learns swords dance, teams without priority could be destroyed by this thing as a sweeper, not just a momentum grabber with u-turns. In general i think it's very very good, up there with the best pokemon in the tier, if it wasn't for weezing i would say there's not counter but since there is, i feel like i have to run weezing on a balance team to prepare for mons like beedrill, so hence very centralizing like sceptile.

Mega-Audino;
Now this is probably my favourite mega so far. Cro-dino is a veryyyyyyyyyyy good pokemon right now, it's also very fun to use. It's not broken by any means, it is so bulky though, reliable recovery and cool stab moves with dazzling gleam plus calm mind making "cro-dino" one of my favourite pokemon right now. If beedrill were to leave the tier perhaps, it would be a lot more popular, however there are still a tonne more checks and counters running around in the form of the poison types like muk, weezing, garbodor and even things like mega-steelix, klingklang, pawniard etc etc. However, I can see a lot of potential for this mon with some team support (I know, a phrase I haven't used yet with the other megas O:) that you can sweep with cro-dino. I'd love to see this mon get some more love since it's a really good pangoro stop (doesn't appreciate banded gunk but oo well) and in general a fun mon to use.

Pangoro
;
Now I've gone through the megas, but this mon also got some amazing buffs that make it so good right now that it can destroy balance and stall teams with its sheer coverage and power. Since it gained iron fist drain punch, knock off and gunk shot, it's honestly just what this pokemon was lacking. It's really good now, realllllyyyyy good. It can fit on teams nicely as a banded nuke or even the taunt-sd set which sets up on things like weezing xD It's even got recovery with drain punch that makes it hard to stop, which means you have to sack something to deal with it, so it will most of the time assure you 1 kill xD it will probably get taken by RU by usage, but a really fun mon nonetheless, i will use him myself while i can! xD

Slurpuff;
Now this mon is probably the most threatening regular mon around right now. If it sets up and has more than 30% hp left, it's almost impossible to stop. Drain punch makes it soooooooooo much more threatening. I've even played a game where I had a fake out mon (lopunny) but couldn't even do 25% to it, hence it recovered up with drain punch and made the fake out damage pointless, which means that priority isn't stopping it reliably right now. It is only stopped by poison types, which makes it really centralising, in all honesty i hate playing against it as it is such a threat, it can sweep teams effortlessly. Use it while you can! I can't see this staying around too much either xD

In conclusion to ma thoughts + opinions, I'm gonna have to say that only a few megas will likely stay in nu, those being mega-steelix, camel, glalie. Even Audino I think will eventually have some "ban-worthy" qualities soon enough xD So hopefully once the meta has settled, it will be easier for people to team build again! xD
 

xzern

for sure
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here are some of my thoughts

Mega Sceptile
If you've used mega sceptile yet, you should experience the fact that it is actually quite underwhelming. Even with the boost of 120 -> 145 base speed, what are you really outspeeding? You're outspeeding only one of sceptile's checks, swellow, and speed-tying with mega beedrill and accelgor. Also, mega sceptile's total special atk is actually lower than regular sceptile's special attack after the life orb boost. (402 > 389). Additionally, grass/dragon is not the most desirable typing to be, especially after an ice shard abusing mega has just entered the battlefield, mega glalie. Mega sceptile does have its perks, however, like lightningrod. Sceptile, if already mega evolved, can switch in on a uxie's thunder wave or something and boost its special attack by +1. This may be used with pokemon that lure in electric-type attacks like swanna (idk) to get free lightningrod boosts.

Mega Audino
The ability of healer is nothing to be proud of. It's worthless in doubles and literally worthless in any singles tier. I've seen a few rest+CM megaudinos in my day, and it has made me break only five of my laptops. However, the problem of cm audino can easily be solved via basically any physical steel type like mega steelix, or especially klinklang because it just can spam shift gear right in audino's pathetic healer face.

Mega Beedrill
If you havent noticed by now, I am an avid fan of mega beedrill. It is just a great pokemon and completely warrants the use of a volturn core in NU. With adaptability u-turn, it can keep up so much good momentum and be pretty annoying to play against. However, it's not able to make such good use of adaptability, since the only two good STABs that it gets are u-turn and poison jab, x-scissor if you're feeling frisky. It's also got easily penetrable defenses, taking 60% from pretty much any priority move that it doesnt resist. That being said, kangaskhan is a great offensive counter for it. Defensively, it's pretty much completely shut down by weezing and rhydon.

tl;dr if a higher tier bans mega beedrill im going to be salty as fuck
 

(only RSE kidz will get this)

I already rated Kecloen in XY, but in ORAS it just becomes a beast. My favourite set so far is

Kecleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Sneak

This is pretty much standard SubPunch, with the nice addition of Shadow Sneak, which lets you get a sub on choice-locked fighting types and other things. With protean focus punch hits hard, dual priority is nice and kecleon has decent special bulk. The EVs could do with being optimised but this has worked well for me so far.

#backedbybrawlfest
 

(only RSE kidz will get this)

I already rated Kecloen in XY, but in ORAS it just becomes a beast. My favourite set so far is

Kecleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Sneak

This is pretty much standard SubPunch, with the nice addition of Shadow Sneak, which lets you get a sub on choice-locked fighting types and other things. With protean focus punch hits hard, dual priority is nice and kecleon has decent special bulk. The EVs could do with being optimised but this has worked well for me so far.

#backedbybrawlfest
From my experience using and playing agianst this set, it is difficult to play around. Focus Punch is an incredibly powerful and rewarding move to carry, and the mindgames between priority and substitute are often too much for many players to handle.
 
I just wanted to talk a bit about the effects the new Megas are having on the metagame. Each of them is so wildly different from one another that it's pretty much impossible to cover all four of the major ones (Sceptile, Altaria, Beedrill, and Lopunny) without just using Weezing. The problem with that is that Weezing can be exploited. I built a team around CoilPass Huntail today, and it just shits all over Weezing. It has enough bulk to keep up a Sub against Weezing's Sludge Bomb about 50% of the time, and with Water Veil, it's immune to Will-O-Wisp's burn. Dragalge also gets a free switch into Weezing, which usually means a free kill as well unless they have obscure answers like Metang.

Anyways, the point of this is something I mentioned on PS a few times today. I feel like Altaria is the most banworthy of the four Megas I listed, and I feel like the other three are about on equal footing. But I also feel as though if hypothetically only two of the four of them remained in the metagame, the other two would pretty much be manageable. The problem right now is that all four of them are just so overwhelming, and if you do manage to cover them without getting fucked up by things that can take advantage of Weezing, you're probably going to be weak to other stuff because there are still so many other tremendous threats in the metagame. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's anything that can be done about that through tiering because I feel as though all three of the other problem Megas are pretty much equally banworthy. I'm just wondering how everyone else feels about it because I don't think I'm too off base here, but maybe I am! Note: I'm not really looking for solutions to the problem so much as opinions about the problem itself.
 

(only RSE kidz will get this)

I already rated Kecloen in XY, but in ORAS it just becomes a beast. My favourite set so far is

Kecleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Protean
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Sneak

This is pretty much standard SubPunch, with the nice addition of Shadow Sneak, which lets you get a sub on choice-locked fighting types and other things. With protean focus punch hits hard, dual priority is nice and kecleon has decent special bulk. The EVs could do with being optimised but this has worked well for me so far.

#backedbybrawlfest
This set pwned me. It's really good, i'd say this and the stealth rock set are the optimal sets to run. Here are some cool calcs I found, cus everyone loves those right? :

252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Hariyama: 262-310 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - people almost always switch Yama into kecleon, so you can get off a clean 65% then finish it off with another focus punch.
252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 225-265 (83 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pidgeot: 252-297 (81.8 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (adorable switch in)
252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 265-313 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

and the best one..

252+ Atk Protean Kecleon Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 254-302 (61.9 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (yes, that is the mega)

So of course those were just a few calcs with the new megas, as you can see, not bad at all. I should probably stop using calcs to support my posts
Anyway, i love this new meta so far. Of course the megas don't really make it too enjoyable since they're all pretty broken, but it's fun to use all of them and some new stuff like Adaptability dragalge and Knock off/drain punch pangoro destroys NU. When some of the ridiculous stuff like dragon dance Altaria and Beedrill (hopefully) leave, then I will be able to finally make a team without weezing, which will be fun :]

Threats to prepare for:
  • All nine megas - Some are better than others, but they are all game changing.
  • Slurpuff - this thing was always a threat, but now it has drain punch. Rip meta.
  • Pangoro - it has so many sets that are all so good, and it gets a lot of moves that make it 100% viable and i can honestly see this going to RU by usage
  • Dragalge - with adaptability, there are no switch ins. Not even slurpuff wants to switch into a draco, cause immunity doesn't exist to this monster.
  • Kecleon - not a sweeping threat like pangoro or puff is (unless sub punch obv), but It's very independent and gets shit done having access to rocks and protean.
What can counter most of these:
  • Weezing - Counters most physical offensive threats. It's almost a must have on everyone's team because of all the threats it deals with, like slurpuff, pangoro, beedrill, etc.
  • Jynx - Jynx is really good in this meta, and the scarf set checks most, if not all the megas.
So yeah, those are just a few of the top tier threats to be ready for in ORAS NU. Try and find new and absurd pokemon (as long as they are actually viable) to counter these threats - such is the nature of NU - and post them below, because I'm actually struggling to beat a lot of the new megas and all these threatening behemoths and nothing standard is working. But, I digress, I have a feeling NU is going to be sweet this year.
 
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Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Haze


  • This is a set I've been using as a slurpuff lure. What Slurpuff can resist setting up a Belly Drum on a -2 Dragalge that's choiced locked into Draco Meteor? Well surprise, this set isn't your bread and butter Choice Spec set. This set laughs as the unknowing Slurpuff sets up its Belly Drum, just to get shot down by haze, making the Slurpuff useless. This also works for CM Slurpuff and Mega Audino.

  • Also, -2 Sludge Bomb kills after Stealth Rocks and Belly Drum. So if you have rocks or, or prior damage, this will kill!

Shout out to Oshony for talking about Haze Dragalge in NU chat

Edit: Fixed some info I had on here
 
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Zzz why ppl are sleeping so much on Glalie. This monster is a literal wrecking ball, whenever it enters the battlefield you can guarantee sommething is gonna die unless the opposing team has Metang. After Altaria it is the best mega in the tier imo.
 

marilli

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I can vouch for non-specsed Dragalge. It destroys things without having to be specsed, and it makes Slurpuff much easier to deal with. You really want to be on the offensive and not let Slurpuff get a chance to set up, as you can't really use defensive teams in ORAS without falling to Altaria / Beedrill / Lopunny / Sceptile / Slurpuff / Pangoro / Dragalge. It also makes you much safer to use against Mega Altaria, the top threat right now. Haze is ~interesting~ but not quite sure because chances are if you don't have SR up yet, then it's too early for BD Slurpuff to sweep through your team just yet, so Sludge Bomb is enough.

And I didn't mention Mega Altaria in my first post because I didn't want to jump the ship on calling broken before even using it, but with my experience this should really be a staple mega in all teams aiming to abuse all the brokenmons to your heart's content. It also makes Sceptile a non-issue which really takes pressure off in teambuilding. IIRC 68 EVs in speed allow you to outspeed 145 base Speed with positive nature after 2 boosts. I don't even know if people are using that right now because 'it only lets you win mirror against opposing megas' but when every other team is using those base 145 megas with neutral speed nature, it's kind of a big deal to be able to check them offensively.

edit: mega altaria and mega lop shares checks in poison-types, one of the fun things you can do is pair specs altaria and mega lop and try to bop physical walls switching in, or use klutz switcheroo lop with mega altaria to cripple poisons.
 
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edit: mega altaria and mega lop shares checks in poison-types, one of the fun things you can do is pair specs altaria and mega lop and try to bop physical walls switching in, or use klutz switcheroo lop with mega altaria to cripple poisons.
This is really interesting, primarily because Lopunny is a hardly viable Pokemon on its own when it isn't Mega, whereas Altaria has some defensive niche, leading most players to believe that Lopunny is the Mega Pokemon (even though both are pretty bad on their own tbh), which means Klutz Switcheroo is really good to give like a Flame Orb / Choice item to Weezing, while not being affected by the Black Sludge it receives. It's annoying that Lopunny is pretty useless outside of this one lure though, since in a lot of the games the best it can do is cripple an opposing Pokemon while it dies, but it's an interesting strategy for sure.

I can third the viability of Draco Plate Dragalge, as I've been using it on the ladder ever since I heard it got Adaptability; you still hit very hard and Specs Dragalge is far easier to take advantage of. I think I'd definitely always use a Plate over EBelt too considering Dragalge OHKOes everything weak to it with its STAB moves and it really appreciates the Draco boost against offense. I don't think I'd run max Speed though, there's sure to be some benchmark that offers some extra bulk so Dragalge can still check things like Typhlosion in a pinch.

Also, with the rise in Poison-types, Psychic-types are really good right now, like Jynx, Mesprit, Mr. Mime, and Uxie I guess (though it hasn't really changed in my opinion since it still sets up on most defensive teams easily but it lacks the initial power to deter switch-ins like the other Psychics). It's also handy that most of them double as Scarf users that revenge the Megas, especially Jynx with that sexy Ice-type STAB.
 

jake

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Zzz why ppl are sleeping so much on Glalie. This monster is a literal wrecking ball, whenever it enters the battlefield you can guarantee sommething is gonna die unless the opposing team has Metang. After Altaria it is the best mega in the tier imo.
I don't agree with "something is going to die" because it does have a number of okay checks, and I don't think it's the second best mega, but I do agree that a lot of people are sleeping on Glalie-M. Explosion is just so good at tearing open something that -used- to be a check to a different Pokemon that Glalie is probably the only Mega worth using in an offensive "support" role. Unlike Sceptile, Lopunny, etc, Glalie is probably never going to hit home on its own simply because its attack power is somewhere between "good" and "great" (but not overwhelming), and because it lacks coverage and general oomph with the remainder of its moveset. Glalie-M seems like it should be run as a 'mon that sparks an offensive torrent by chipping away at defensive walls and them blowing them to pieces when there's an opportune moment, at the cost of itself.

I haven't had the chance to use Glalie-M on my own yet, but do you think suspecting Glalie-M would hold water in the current meta? It surely seems to be one of those that is teetering on the edge right now for many people, so I'm curious to hear what everyone thinks.
 
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I can see M-Glalie being used in HO cores to blow apart a huge whole in their team structure. I think it has a lot of untapped potential. But the issue is it's hard to pass up over M-Lopunny or Sceptile. Maybe if they get banned we'll see a rise in M-Glalie? It's going to be an interesting mon to watch over the next few weeks.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Yeah at the moment, unless you're trying to build around it to test it specifically, there's no real reason to 'waste' your mega slot on Glalie when you can just be using Scep / Punny / Drill.

As the meta adapts once some megas are gone, it'll probably be the best offensive spiker for HO, though i still think as a lead hyper offense would prefer lead Archeops to guarantee rocks. Should be interesting, it's certainly powerful enough to set spikes + punch holes.
 

jake

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I don't think I like it much when you're trying to strictly confine it to a lead role, and while you do have competition with your Mega slot I think it could be worth running on a "standard" offensive team without need of those other Megas. This is the set I was envisioning right now:



Glalie-Mega @ Glalitite
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Spikes / Ice Shard (forgot to slash it)

On some neutral targets:

252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 229-270 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 475-561 (114.7 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 135-160 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 280-331 (95.8 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 169-199 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 349-412 (104.4 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On Avalugg:

252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 126-149 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

^ That's doing 38% max with a resisted move to a fully invested Pokemon with 95 / 184 defenses... and can still break it open, thanks to SR + boom damage and having the option to immediately go to something else to pressure Avalugg back out. For the record, that outdamages +2 Adamant Feraligatr (no LO) with a neutral Waterfall.
 
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Ares

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Well, I've used M-Glalie briefly and for me the thing that is really holding it back from being that broken is its speed tier. Right now in NU the speed tier just shot up a ton and base 80 speed is just mediocre right now, with all of the fast paced teams out there its speed is just holding it back. Against slower paced teams it really has a chance to shine as Double-Edge is incredibly powerful and has a chance to 2HKO things like 0 Def Hariyama. I think something that would be interesting is pairing it with a Fire-type as Hariyama is a pretty big switch in to Fire-types and using glalie to bait it in and then either 2HKO with double edge or explode. Or pair it with something that likes having its walls removed because right now its looking like Explosion has a chance to OHKO a ton of important walls that will be trying to switch in on it.
The set ive been using:

Glalie @ Glalitite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Spikes / Ice Shard

Ice Shard can be used to check things like Mega Sceptile while spikes is good for fast paced offensive teams, Explosion packs quite a punch and pretty much takes at least 40% off of everything. It also gets access to Freeze-Dry, but I haven't tested it out yet, and am having trouble finding a slot for it. EQ for neutral coverage and what not.

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 181-214 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 151-178 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 378-445 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Thick Fat Hariyama: 313-370 (72.9 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 123-145 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 255-301 (87.3 - 103%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Seismitoad: 229-271 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Seismitoad: 477-562 (115.4 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 153-181 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 318-375 (95.2 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 144-171 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 300-354 (84.7 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


tl;dr the main thing holding it back is its speed

literally was about to post this when zeb posted his, so im just gonna do it anyways ;/
 

soulgazer

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Mega Glalie is indeed really strong and I don't see a problem with using it right now either lol. It can check Sceptile / Pidgeot with Ice Shard (and Mega Altaria if its low I guess), wallbreak with Double-Edge and Earthquake, and when needed, can just sacrifice itself to open up the way for its teammates. I don't think Spikes is the way to go tbh: Glalie needs Double-Edge/Boom/Ice Shard and Taunt or Earthquake gives Glalie more utility than Spikes. If you want Spikes, use something else.

I have also been trying out Double Fairy:

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Happiness: 0
EVs: 168 HP / 188 Def / 152 Spe
Impish Nature
- Frustration
- Dragon Dance
- Refresh
- Roost

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind

Spread on Altaria is from Hollywood, no idea what it does (beside being bulky obv), but it has been working well for me so whatever. Idea is to lure stuff in with Slurpuff that would usually beat Mega Altaria, so like Poison-types (Garbodor, Weezing) and Steel-types (Ferroseed, Steelix, etc), so that Slurpuff can weaken them / KO them and open up the way for Altaria. When the opponent realise Slurpuff doesn't have Surf and finally bring their Fire-type in to finish off Slupuff, Mega Altaria can just easily set up on those and clean up :toast:

Dragalge works well with these two too since it can easily beat opponent's Poison-types and wallbreak for Puff and Altaria.
 
I really like Facade on Glalie-Mega with an offensive set, it means you can almost use it as a status absorber while gaining an incredibly hard-hitting move. Ice shard checks Sceptile as mont mentioned - I feel Glalie's biggest problem is lack of coverage. EQ hits steels but not particularly hard, water types are also an issue until freeze dry is usable.
 

Ares

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I really like Facade on Glalie-Mega with an offensive set, it means you can almost use it as a status absorber while gaining an incredibly hard-hitting move. Ice shard checks Sceptile as mont mentioned - I feel Glalie's biggest problem is lack of coverage. EQ hits steels but not particularly hard, water types are also an issue until freeze dry is usable.
I mean its coverage is still really really good, even resisted hits from explosion take a chunk off of walls health, and aside from Feraligatr (which still takes 80% from explosion) steel and water types are either nuetral to ice (toad) or are bopped by EQ (qwil and lanturn). Klinklang can't setup for free as EQ is almost a OHKO and if its running HP a 2HKO. Pretty much Ice + Ground coverage is really really good and the things that we have to resist Ice are hit by EQ and or take a ton from refrigerate boosted moves.

Defensive:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 105-124 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 216-255 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Specially Defensive:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 130-154 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 271-321 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Mega:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 93-111 (26.2 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 193-228 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Water types:
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 120-142 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 250-295 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 103-122 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Earthquake actually does less than Double-Edge

-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 69-82 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
-1 252 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 120-142 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 132-156 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 275-324 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 226-268 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kabutops: 114-135 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kabutops: 239-282 (91.5 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kabutops: 198-234 (75.8 - 89.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 107-126 (40.8 - 48%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 222-261 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Glalie Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Klinklang: 184-218 (70.2 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 

marilli

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Did some numbers crunching with the speed tier stuff:

With no boosts:
96 EVs outspeed Adamant Pawniard
176 EVs outspeed Modest Samurott / Ludicolo
+164 outspeeds Neutral max speed Altaria / Mesprit

At 1 boost:
152 EVs outspeed Jolly Archeops
204 EVs outspeed Adamant Lopunny
240 EVs outspeed Jolly Swellow (tbh at this point you might as well run neutral nature max speed)
+164 outspeeds Jolly Lopunny, Adamant Beedrill. You can put more to outspeed the not-really-relevant Adamant Scarf Sawk, but it's kind of unnecessary. This potentially compromises a lot of bulk for like 2 things to outspeed, and you rely Beedrill's nature for this to be relevant. Jolly Beedrill will always outspeed a +1 Altaria no matter what.

Stuff that can outspeed any speed-invested +2 Altaria cannot hope to touch her back + are setup fodder.

So I'd probably either run 152, 176, 252. I'd crunch the numbers on loss of bulk too, but RIP damagecalc. Also I don't even know what's even 'common' anymore with this mess of a meta, too, lol.
 

Blast

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I always use Ice Shard > Spikes on Mega Glalie. Priority that can kill Mega Sceptile is really really good, and from my experiences I never found the time to use Spikes anyway.

Anyway here's a set I've been liking so far:



Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Memento

Pretty standard stallbreaker Missy from XY but with a couple tweaks. Speed is bumped up by to 224 EVs to beat out Pidgeot before it Mega Evolves, and Memento is really nice with setup sweepers, particularly Slurpuff (other stuff works too, but Slurpuff is definitely the best). You just burn and Taunt things early-game like the standard set does, and then pop off a Memento when you find an opening.
 

soulgazer

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Speaking of Ghost-types:


Haunter @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Trick
- Destiny Bond

calcs vs Mega Altaria (that took SR damage before mega evolving)
252 SpA Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 272-324 (76.8 - 91.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Haunter outspeed every +1 Altaria.

Haunter is also 'safe' if Altaria use Return on the switch (worst case scenario: max atk adamant)
252+ Atk Pixilate Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haunter: 148-175 (64 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

calcs vs Mega Sceptile:
252 SpA Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile: 324-384 (115.3 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Haunter can outspeed Mega Beedrill and will always KO Beedrill after two Stealth Rock switch in
252 SpA Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 144-171 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And Haunter can Destiny Bond Mega Lopunny / Glalie / Steelix / Pidgeot / everything :toast:

fk rotom god bless haunter
 

Ares

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On the other hand:

Jynx (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Trick
- Lovely Kiss
This diva can check a significant portion of the megas and has added utility of being able to put something to sleep on the switch. Trick is a secondary slash because you can not trick a mega and having coverage is always a good thing. This thing was first used against me by Can-Eh-Dian and it has been putting in work ever since then.

calcs vs mega altaria
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Jynxr outspeeds every +1 Altaria :^)

Jolly can't OHKO but Adamant can KO most of the time (not a safe switch in)

calcs vs mega sceptile:
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile: 616-732 (219.2 - 260.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs mega beedrill:
252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 324-384 (119.5 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs mega lopunny:
252 SpA Jynx Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lopunny: 278-330 (102.5 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs mega glalie:
252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

vs mega steelix:
252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 180-212 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Steelix: 250-296 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


vs mega pidgeot:
252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pidgeot: 314-372 (102.2 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Just a little bit better than Haunter against mega's, sorry Soulgazer :^)
 

soulgazer

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do you even spinblock / switch on any move

<:)

anyway hope you guys get the idea: its possible to deal with those megas (they are still too much ik)
 
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