And even Latias o.o
Still, we only have new mega's not a new gen so I don't think the new toy syndrome will be quite as dramatic as early XY.
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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Still, we only have new mega's not a new gen so I don't think the new toy syndrome will be quite as dramatic as early XY.
Are you talking about Greninja or Mega Mence? Anyway, for both:
40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 86-104 (22.9 - 27.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
216 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 110-133 (29.4 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 121-144 (32.3 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Not sure of the ideal spread for p2, but with max defense, neither are 2hkoing. Mence can 2hko at +1 (+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 181-214 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock).
That is a worst case scenario though, since a lot of DD mega mences, from what i've heard/seen, run bulk over power.
Somebody brought this up in the Mega Mence Quickban Thread, but P2 usage was virtually non-existent until ORAS because it didn't really do anything. Having to resort to P2 as the only consistent Mega Mence/Greninja answer just goes to show how powerful they are, and I hope Greninja is the first thing to get tested after we deal with Mence.
I agree with every single one of these bar audino. It will likely be ru, as because they only have like 2 other megas, it doesn't have a huge opportunity cost like in ou and uu. This will actually allow it to be a good wall there without being "outclassed", so to speak, by other megas.
Should we bring back/retest Aegislash for ORAS OU?
haunter
Banned deucer.
Not the topic for this thread. We might retest Aegislash in the future, but we have more pressing set of problems to deal with at the moment.
I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
Glalie @ Glalitite
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Double-Edge/Frustration
- Explosion(Facade if you are like REALLY weak to sableye)
- Earthquake
glalie is back with a vengeance. our favorite face monster now has access to the most powerful ice moves in the game, as well as freeze dry and earthquake so *most* steels and bulky waters arent a problem. let me recite viable counters to this set(assuming double edge)
bronzong
doublade
scizor
pdef p2
thats it from looking at the viability thread. seriously. of course, it has ALOT more checks, but this is the extent of what switches into it freely(and everything bar doublade is taking 50%+ from explosion).
so with the advent of freeze dry glalie(i'm still having wet dreams), will glalie have a more profound effect on the meta? will glalie finally emerge from the shadows of the C ranks? will glalie shag ur mum? that's for you to answer. peace out
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Double-Edge/Frustration
- Explosion(Facade if you are like REALLY weak to sableye)
- Earthquake
glalie is back with a vengeance. our favorite face monster now has access to the most powerful ice moves in the game, as well as freeze dry and earthquake so *most* steels and bulky waters arent a problem. let me recite viable counters to this set(assuming double edge)
bronzong
doublade
scizor
pdef p2
thats it from looking at the viability thread. seriously. of course, it has ALOT more checks, but this is the extent of what switches into it freely(and everything bar doublade is taking 50%+ from explosion).
so with the advent of freeze dry glalie(i'm still having wet dreams), will glalie have a more profound effect on the meta? will glalie finally emerge from the shadows of the C ranks? will glalie shag ur mum? that's for you to answer. peace out
Tell me about it lol. coughmegamencecough.
On another note, I really like Mega Sceptile. I've been running a Sub/Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/Focus blast set, and it's very deadly. It doesn't like coming into very many hits, but if you slow U-Turn in or come in off death or a predicted switch or whatever, he can easily force a lot of pokes out allowing for a free sub and there's very few pokemon who want to take any of his attacks. Scizor can usually handle him pretty easily, but you could run HP Fire over Focus Blast to put that to an end real quick. In fact, even bluffing HP Fire can keep people afraid of switching in Scizor on him until you've revealed Focus Blast. Haven't run the numbers too much to see which ko's scep misses out on running HP Fire over Focus Blast and vice versa but I will soon. HP Fire might be better. Also outspeeds Greninja and most of the meta by a mile so that's nice. Also subs up on Sucker Punches all day. Even most pokes that can outspeed/priority it and kill it (Mamo, scarf Terrakion), if it has a sub up it can OHKO them after the sub dies. I've even one shotted megamences with Dragon Pulse after rocks lol (I am in no way saying scep is a counter to megamence, just pointing out an interesting fact xD).
Honestly, if you are using a mega sceptile set with sub, run giga drain instead. Sub can easily wear it down, because it has no reliable recovery and it can't run leftovers. Giga drain still hits pretty hard, and you can get back your HP after subbing, with makes beating stuff like mew easier. If you are going to run leaf storm, run the wallbreaker set, because leaf storm hits insanely hard off of mega sceptile's high special attack, and it's a great hit and run attacker.
Also 1 mon I'm really hyped about is mega pidgeot (if you couldn't tell by my avatar), it gets a 110 base power STAB move to toss around (wait did I mention that move has no drawbacks), coupled with high speed and pretty nice coverage with heat wave, and with it's high special attack, nothing except resists will like taking hurricanes. Yeah it also looks really cool too
Also 1 mon I'm really hyped about is mega pidgeot (if you couldn't tell by my avatar), it gets a 110 base power STAB move to toss around (wait did I mention that move has no drawbacks), coupled with high speed and pretty nice coverage with heat wave, and with it's high special attack, nothing except resists will like taking hurricanes. Yeah it also looks really cool too
And Synthesis+Leech Seed+Giga Drain doesn't provide reliable recovery?Honestly, if you are using a mega sceptile set with sub, run giga drain instead. Sub can easily wear it down, because it has no reliable recovery and it can't run leftovers. Giga drain still hits pretty hard, and you can get back your HP after subbing, with makes beating stuff like mew easier. If you are going to run leaf storm, run the wallbreaker set, because leaf storm hits insanely hard off of mega sceptile's high special attack, and it's a great hit and run attacker.
Also 1 mon I'm really hyped about is mega pidgeot (if you couldn't tell by my avatar), it gets a 110 base power STAB move to toss around (wait did I mention that move has no drawbacks), coupled with high speed and pretty nice coverage with heat wave, and with it's high special attack, nothing except resists will like taking hurricanes. Yeah it also looks really cool too
Leech seed is a complete waste of mega sceptile, even stuff like chesnaught and mega venu are better at leach seed stalling.
Honestly even though synthesis is reliable recovery, it's really unviable on mega sceptile because it's not even bulky at all. Mega sceptile should mainly be used as a hit and run attacker, if you're using it as a leech seed and synthesis staller, you're using it wrong.
Honestly even though synthesis is reliable recovery, it's really unviable on mega sceptile because it's not even bulky at all. Mega sceptile should mainly be used as a hit and run attacker, if you're using it as a leech seed and synthesis staller, you're using it wrong.
I've found the stallbreaker Talonflame really useful in this metagame, this set is really useful as it still checks a lot of threats with it's brave bird, such as mega Lopunny and mega Gallade, while serving as a great weapon against most members of stall teams, and combined with a Mega Sableye answer, can be a real pain in this matchup. The set I've been using is:
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 124 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost
- Brave Bird
Basically the set from the analysis but with a lot more Speed to serve as a semi decent metagross check, while also being able to check Mega Pinsir even when weakened due to outspeeding it's Quick Attack. Evs allow you to outspeed Thundurus, as I knew I wanted to outspeed base 110's and once you're at that range you may aswell jump thundy too so you can get off a clutch Burn / Taunt if needed. Set is exactly the same as the set from the analysis and plays in much the same manner, picking off offensive threats with Brave Bird while breaking down stall with the combination of it's extremely fast Taunt and Will-o-wisp, this usually puts work in against any playstyle. Combined with a reliable Mega Sableye answer and a reliable defogger, this is a really fun set to use. A final plus, this set outspeeds jolly mence before mevo and adamant afterwards, so any of those trying to set up on you get their just desserts.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 124 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Roost
- Brave Bird
Basically the set from the analysis but with a lot more Speed to serve as a semi decent metagross check, while also being able to check Mega Pinsir even when weakened due to outspeeding it's Quick Attack. Evs allow you to outspeed Thundurus, as I knew I wanted to outspeed base 110's and once you're at that range you may aswell jump thundy too so you can get off a clutch Burn / Taunt if needed. Set is exactly the same as the set from the analysis and plays in much the same manner, picking off offensive threats with Brave Bird while breaking down stall with the combination of it's extremely fast Taunt and Will-o-wisp, this usually puts work in against any playstyle. Combined with a reliable Mega Sableye answer and a reliable defogger, this is a really fun set to use. A final plus, this set outspeeds jolly mence before mevo and adamant afterwards, so any of those trying to set up on you get their just desserts.
Y
Ya think so? I've been considering it. Are there any important kills/damages that he misses out on over Leaf Storm. Plus it's not really like scep should be taking many hits anyway, I actually liked Energy Ball over Giga. But I'm not that great so idk hahah.
The thing is that if you are planning on setting up subs, then you are planning to hit your swap in at least twice. 2 Giga Drains > 1 Leaf Storm.
If you weren't running subs, then leaf storm all the way.
2 Leaf Storms > 2 Giga Drains
Your reasoning for using Giga Drain doesn't make any sense at all. You use Giga Drain with Sub because Sub is an incredibly useful moveand Giga Drain recovers health so you can use more subs.
And because it doesn't make your special attack stat worthless after one use, forcing you out despite wanting to stay behind a sub.
It's days like these where I really miss our calc... I make stupid mistakes like that one.
Still, setting up subs of a force out means that whatever swaps in will be unable to ohko you (unless hyper voice / infiltrator), meaning that you get 2 hits in.
So any1 else seeing like Rotom-W and Landorous-T on like every team they face?
Also seeing lot of mence and heatran
Quite a few sand teams also
Also seeing lot of mence and heatran
Quite a few sand teams also
Two giga drains is better in this case. You're behind a sub, you're getting recovery from the health that you just lost, and your special attack isn't becoming garbage meaning you can sustain your power behind the sub. It's not like OHKO's even matter when you can just 2HKO with giga drain and take no damage behind your sub.
Grass Knot hurts pretty bad though.
Grass moves are rarer and rarer these days, and depending on Vape's set, it can tank 2.
The standard ORAS set doesn't even run grass knot. Gunk shot / hydro pump / ice Beam / dark pulse is his most effective set at the moment.
It's a pretty good check, but without any Special Defense investment, Greninja does about as much as you get back with Wish and Leftovers (assuming WishTect build) if it has Grass Knot:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 229-273 (49.3 - 58.8%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I wouldn't say that Greninja would win if has Grass Knot, but it would still be a bit of a toss-up since if you run out of wishes before Greninja runs out of Grass Knots or you switch on Grass Knot, you have a problem. Other than that it makes it a pretty strong check, since Vaporeon would arguably win if both it and Greninja enter the field reasonably healthy even if it does have Grass Knot, and without it you can easily Wish Stall until Greninja is down to about 30% and kill it with Scald.
I thought Hydro Pump was not really as common any more. Low Kick hits common Water STAB targets (Heatran, TTar) about as hard or harder, while also hitting Ferro and Chansey hard.
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