Doubles Zapdos

SpaceBass

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Overview
#######
  • Very useable bulk complimented by a good typing
  • Faces stiff competition from both Thundurus' (Thundurus for support, Thundurus T for offense), with Zapdos' advantage being the use of Tailwind and extra bulk.
  • Good Special Attack stat and access to Tailwind
  • Decent movepool
  • Speed tier is great for a Tailwind user as it makes it naturally able to outspeed alot of faster threats

Bulky Tailwind
########
name: Bulky Tailwind
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Heat Wave / Protect
move 4: Tailwind
ability: Pressure
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 144 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

  • This set focuses on setting up Tailwind, while still maintaining a decent offensive presence after its set
  • Thunderbolt is Zapdos' best STAB move, does great super effective and acceptable neutral damage
  • Hidden Power Ice is to hit the Ground and Grass-types that resist Thunderbolt
  • Heat Wave is a good coverage move to have as it allows you to hit steels, particularly Ferrothorn, which would otherwise wall Zapdos' Electric/Ice coverage
  • Tailwind provides valuable speed control for your team, and allows Zapdos to outspeed even scarf Landorus-T, and nail it with Hidden Power Ice
  • Protect can be used over heat wave if need be

Set Details
========

  • Max HP allows Zapdos to always live a Mega Kangaskhan Double Edge, and be 3HKO'd by Landorus T's Rock Slide thanks to Sitrus Berry
  • The 112 speed evs allows Zapdos to outspeed Jolly Breloom to beat Spore, and to outspeed Timid Mega Sceptile after a Tailwind.
  • The rest is put into special attack with a modest nature to allow Zapdos to maintain some offensive presence after it sets up
  • Sitrus provides extra bulk to assist in set up, and increased chance of being able to attack after it sets Tailwind

Usage Tips
========

  • This set is a good lead as Zapdos' bulk usually allows it to live through the first turn to get Tailwind up, and start hitting things.
  • The bulk investment allows it to switch-in safely to quite a few things and still perform its role well.
  • The Modest nature and Special Attack investment allow it to have a good offensive presence after Tailwind is set.

Team Options
========

  • Pokemon in middling speed tiers with already present physical bulk benefit greatly from this set, such as Mega Heracross and Mega Kangaskhan as the increased speed makes them hard to deal with
  • Fake out support is greatly appreciated, as it allows Zapdos a free turn to gain the upper hand in setting up tailwind while staying protected. Mega Kangaskhan can run an adamant nature to take advantage of tailwind and Scrafty and Hitmontop provide intimidate alongside fake out
  • Fire and Ground-types are a good idea even while running Heat Wave, as they can beat Ice and Rock-types respectively, while Zapdos beats Water types for them,
  • Ground-types such as Garchomp and Excadrill also enjoy being able to EarthQuake without hitting Zapdos, and Fire-types such as Heatran and Chandelure appreciate bulky Water types being taken out
  • Focus Sash Breloom is a great partner due to its ability to take advantage of Tailwind with a fast Spore. It can protect while Zapdos sets up Tailwind, and threatens Rock-types with a strong Mach Punch. Spore can also stop opposing pokemon from setting up Trick Room.
Other Options
########
  • The bulky set can run Life Orb over Sitrus Berry to net some key OHKOs such as Landorus-T, Breloom and Mega Charizard Y
  • Choice Specs are an option for a more offensive approach
  • A Choice Scarf set is also an option as it allows Zapdos to nail Scarfed Landorus-T with a Hidden Power Ice. It can also maintain momentum with Volt Switch.
  • Roost can be used to keep Zapdos alive longer to take advantage of a second TailWind
  • Thunder Wave is an option over Tailwind, if you want a more permanent solution to a fast Pokemon, but Tailwind allows your entire team to benefit
  • Hidden Power Flying can be run on the Special Attacking set to hit Fighting-types and still be able to hit Amoonguss/Mega Venusaur
  • Discharge is a good choice when paired with Ground-types
  • Volt Switch can be used to keep momentum and bring in something to take better advantage of the TailWind
  • Safety Goggles is another option to provide a free switch in to sleep
  • Protect can be run over Hidden Power Ice if your team needs the Fire coverage

Checks & Counters
########

**Offensive Type Advantage**: Kyurem-B resists Thunderbolt, and takes little from both Hidden Power Ice and Heat Wave. Mamoswine and Tyranitar take little damage from Zapdos and can cause considerable damage with their stabs. Terrakion can outspeed and cause massive damage to Zapdos with stab Rock Slide. Mega Diancie comes very close to a OHKO with Diamond Storm, able to knock Zapdos out if it has received a small amount of chip damage.

**Defensive Type Advantage**: Rotom H is a large problem for Zapdos, as it resists Electric, Fire and Ice, leaving Zapdos waiting for a Thunderbolt or an Overheat. Mega Venusaur is a problem to damage, resisting Thunderbolt and thanks to Thick Fat, taking neutral damage from Hidden Power Ice and Heat Wave, being able to Leech Seed and heal back what damage you may do. Latios can tank a Hidden power Ice and hit back hard with Draco Meteor. Mega Swampert is immune to Thunderbolt, neutral to HP Ice, and resists Heat Wave. It is also bulky enough to survive 3+ HP Ices and can hit back hard with an Ice Punch or a rain boosted Waterfall. Mega Camerupt is also immune to Thunderbolt, neutral to HP Ice and resists Heat Wave. Sheer force Heat Waves hit Zapdos hard and Camerupt usually carries HP Ice. Mega Swampert is immune to Thunderbolt, neutral to HP Ice, and resists Heat Wave. It can hit back hard with an Ice Punch or a rain boosted Waterfall.

**Speed Control**: Trick Room is an issue for Zapdos and teams based on TailWind. Cresselia can easily stand up to any of Zapdos' attacks and set Trick Room. Other bulky setters such as Aromatisse, Eviolite Porygon 2, Reuniclus and Dusclops can take a ThunderBolt with ease and use Trick Room

**Bulky Attackers**: Pokemon that can take hits well and still hit back hard include; Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Mega Gardevoir, Ludicolo, Sylveon, Scrafty and Conkeldurr, all of which have access to either super effective coverage, or incredibly hard hitting neutral stabs. Mega Latias can also stand up to Zapdos' attacks and hit back very hard.

**Utility**: Taunt will prevent Zapdos from getting its Tailwind up, wasting a turn. Most Taunt users are faster than Zapdos too so be careful. Prankster Taunt is also something to look out for. Thundurus I is an example of this, Whimsicott being another. Lightning Rod users like Manetric and Rhyperior can redirect Zapdos' ThunderBolt and use it for a Special Attack boost.




Overview
########

Zapdos has an excellent typing for the Doubles metagame, with only two weaknesses, complimented by great defensive stats. It also has a respectable base 125 Special Attack. Its main competition in Doubles comes from both Thundurus formes: Incarnate forme for support and Therian forme for attacking. However, Zapdos has greater bulk and access to the move Tailwind. Its movepool is enough for it to fulfill its role effectively and allows for several different viable sets. Its great Speed tier is especially useful for its role as a Tailwind user, as under Tailwind Zapdos outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame.

Bulky Tailwind
########
name: Bulky Tailwind
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Heat Wave / Protect
move 4: Tailwind
ability: Pressure
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 144 SpA / 112 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Thunderbolt is Zapdos's main STAB move, hitting Water-types such as Politoed, Suicune, and Jellicent and Flying-types such as Talonflame, Togekiss, and Mega Charizard Y super effectively. Hidden Power Ice hits Ground- and Grass-types that are immune to or resist Thunderbolt, such as Landorus-T and Shaymin-S. Protect is for preventing damage for a turn, which will allow a partner to remove a threat or weaken it to KO range. An option to use over Protect is Heat Wave, as it allows Zapdos a chance to OHKO Pokemon such as Breloom and Mega Scizor. Tailwind is used to provide your team with doubled Speed for four turns, allowing you to go on the offensive and gain some momentum by making your slower Pokemon more threatening.

Set Details
========

252 HP EVs and a Sitrus Berry make sure Zapdos will always survive three Rock Slides from Adamant Landorus-T and a Double-Edge from Mega Kangaskhan. The 112 Speed EVs let Zapdos outspeed Jolly Breloom so it can Tailwind before it gets put to sleep by Spore, and even Timid Mega Sceptile once Tailwind is up. The remaining EVs are put into Special Attack with a Modest nature to allow Zapdos to hit hard once it sets up Tailwind. Sitrus Berry allows Zapdos more freedom to switch in on Pokemon and take advantage of its bulk.

Usage Tips
========

This set makes for a great lead, as having a Tailwind set up by turn two can dramatically swing the game in your favor. Its bulk paired with a great typing allows Zapdos to switch in on a majority of Pokemon and scare them out, buying turns for a chance to set up multiple Tailwinds throughout the game. The bulk also means Zapdos can be switched out and brought back in later. The Special Attack investment gives Zapdos great offensive presence, making sure that it can continue being useful after Tailwind is set.

Team Options
========

Pokemon with already-present bulk or middling Speed tiers, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Heracross, make for great partners, as Tailwind allows them to become much harder to deal with. Pokemon that can provide Fake Out support pair well with Zapdos, as Fake Out gives it more freedom when setting up Tailwind. Mega Kangaskhan fits this role well, whereas Scrafty and Hitmontop bring Intimidate alongside Fake Out to aid Zapdos's bulk. Fire- and Ground-types are a good choice, as they handle Ice- and Rock-types, respectively, while Zapdos beats the Water-types that would give them issues. Ground-types such as Garchomp and Excadrill appreciate being able to use Earthquake freely while Zapdos is on the field. Breloom with a Focus Sash makes for an awesome partner, as it can Protect while Zapdos sets up Tailwind and provide fast Spore support.

Other Options
========

Other options include using a Life Orb to increase damage output, as it guarantees KOs on Pokemon such as Breloom, Ferrothorn, and Mega Scizor. Choice Specs has a similar effect, but removes the option of Tailwind. A Choice Scarf variant with an EV spread of 252 HP / 72 SpA / 184 Spe and a Modest nature can be used to counter Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T; the given spread ensures that Zapdos outspeeds the most common variant. The Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and Choice Specs variants can use Hidden Power Flying as a way to hit Fighting-types, as well as still hitting Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur, although this will mean forgoing Hidden Power Ice. Roost is an option to give Zapdos some more longevity throughout the game. Thunder Wave is available if you want a more permanent solution to a fast threat, although Tailwind allows your team to benefit immediately. Discharge is an option when paired with Ground-types or Lightning Rod users. Volt Switch should be carried on the Choice item variants, and is an option on the Tailwind set to allow Zapdos to switch out and bring in a Pokemon that can take better advantage of Tailwind. Swagger gives Zapdos an option to potentially avoid taking hits from threats that its coverage doesn't extend to.

Checks & Counters
########

**Offensive Type Advantage**: Kyurem-B resists Thunderbolt and takes little from both Hidden Power Ice and Heat Wave. Mamoswine and Tyranitar take little damage from Zapdos's attacks and can cause considerable damage with their STAB moves. Terrakion can outspeed and cause massive damage to Zapdos with its STAB Rock Slide. Mega Diancie comes very close to a OHKO with Diamond Storm and is able to KO Zapdos if it has received a small amount of chip damage.

**Defensive Type Advantage**: Rotom-H is a large problem for Zapdos, as it resists Electric, Fire, and Ice. Mega Venusaur is a problem as well because it resists Thunderbolt, takes neutral damage from Hidden Power Ice and Heat Wave thanks to Thick Fat, and is able to use Leech Seed to heal back any damage Zapdos inflicts. Latios can tank a Hidden Power Ice and hit back hard with Draco Meteor. Mega Swampert and Mega Camerupt are immune to Thunderbolt, neutral to Hidden Power Ice, and resist Heat Wave. The former is also bulky enough to survive over three Hidden Power Ices and can hit back hard with an Ice Punch or a rain-boosted Waterfall. The latter can hit Zapdos hard with Sheer Force-boosted Heat Waves, and usually carries Hidden Power Ice as well.

**Speed Control**: Trick Room is an issue for Zapdos and teams based on Tailwind. Cresselia can easily stand up to any of Zapdos's attacks and set up Trick Room. Other bulky Trick Room setters such as Aromatisse, Eviolite Porygon2, Reuniclus, and Dusclops can take a Thunderbolt with ease and use Trick Room.

**Bulky Attackers**: Zapdos is threatened by Pokemon that can take hits well and still hit back hard, such as Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Mega Gardevoir, Ludicolo, Sylveon, Scrafty, Mega Latias, and Conkeldurr. All of these Pokemon have access to either super effective coverage or incredibly hard-hitting neutral STAB moves.

**Utility**: Taunt will prevent Zapdos from setting up Tailwind, wasting a turn. Most Taunt users are faster than Zapdos too, so be careful. Prankster Taunt from Thundurus or Whimsicott is also something to look out for. Lightning Rod users such as Manectric and Rhyperior can redirect Zapdos's Thunderbolt and get a Special Attack boost.
 
Last edited:

shaian

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Not QC but I feel like you're overselling Zapdos quite a bit. It's not facing competition from Thundurus (both I and T), it's outclassed by them. It's only niche over them is that it can run Tailwind, so I would change the wording to reflect that. Also I would probably mention Volt Switch in OO.
 

SpaceBass

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Changed to reflect that the Thundys outclass, I see your point.

Also added Volt Switch into other options along with a Choice Scarf, and using a Modest nature, Thanks Shaian
 

SpaceBass

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Added that Zapdos has bulk advantage over the Thundys, thanks :)
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

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I don't see the appeal of the LO set one bit. A bulky set (probably similar to the one you currently have) and maybe a Scarf set are all Zapdos should ever be using, imo. The Scarf set is basically just a bulkier, but less powerful Scarf Thundurus-T with Heat Wave instead of Focus Blast. The two are interchangeable in most cases.
 

SpaceBass

☆ALOLA VERA420: FUKK AMOONGUS AND UR MOM
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I have the scarf set mentioned in other options, originally I was going to post the scarf set as the second set, but I decided against it. Should I replace life orb set with scarf set and add life orb under other options?
 

finally

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heat wave is an important thing
it's an interesting pick for rain teams considering they have trouble with ferrobro and escavdude
it's your electric spot that can help roast em
and heat wave dosen't misss qB^)
i would remove mention of the move swagger
your evs are spectacular

not qc, so take it as you will
 
yea just do the bulky tailwind set, replace light screen with Heat Wave / Protect, and take out ORAS mentions because this is still an XY analysis
 

SpaceBass

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Yo did you mean make the changes to the bulky tailwind set and swap the LO set over to scarf, or remove the LO set completely and just stick with the sole bulky tailwind set?
 

SpaceBass

☆ALOLA VERA420: FUKK AMOONGUS AND UR MOM
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Sorry it took a few days, had some stuff to do.

Removed the scarf set as per request, removed light screen for heat wave, removed ORAS mentions, updated descriptions ad bullet points to reflect these changes.
 
Overview:
  • Just say it has okay speed. I wouldn't specify that it has a good speed tier when it doesn't even run max.
  • No need to mention it has a sucky ability.
Set:
  • The set name should also be bulky Tailwind, and put Tailwind as the first slash.
  • I would just have enough defense EVs to live Mega Kanga's return and put more evs into SpA. It really only needs to live 2 Landoge Rock Slides so in the worst case scenario it switches into Rock Slide and sets up Tailwind. Most don't run Stone Edge, and if it locks itself into Stone Edge you could easily take advantage of it anyway.
  • Slash Protect behind Heat Wave
Team Options:
  • Take out Mega Tyranitar and Mega Garchomp as partners to utilize Tailwind and put in more relevant stuff like Mawile and Kanga
Other Options:
  • Safety Goggles makes it a good Spore switchin + it can avoid Rage Powder
Checks and Counters:
  • Take out Latias. Also Latios never uses Ice Beam, but it can easily take a HP Ice and retailiate with Draco Meteor. Terrakion also belongs in Speed because it easily beats Zapdos
  • Cube belongs more in typing advantages imo
  • Add Mamoswine and Tyranitar to typing advantages too
  • Add a **bulky attackers** tab and include stuff like Mega Kangaskhan, Heatran, Hydreigon, Mega Gardevoir, Ludicolo, Sylveon, Scrafty, Conk, etc., that can easily take hits and beat it 1v1.
 

SpaceBass

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Added all the above from Lolk, however I've been playing alot with this Zapdos on several different teams, and I really think the bulk does the set well. I have changed it, but with 252 HP it doesn't need any def EVs to live a Kang Return :/

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 306-361 (79.6 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Last edited:
take out moves in the overview that arent in the set. Call the set Bulky Tailwind not Bulky/Tailwind. Fix Set Comments to accommodate for the new ev spread. **Faster Pokemon** should be **Speed**.
 

Darkmalice

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Overview

Not QC but I feel like you're overselling Zapdos quite a bit. It's not facing competition from Thundurus (both I and T), it's outclassed by them. It's only niche over them is that it can run Tailwind, so I would change the wording to reflect that. Also I would probably mention Volt Switch in OO.
I disagree. "Outclass" is a strong word, implying that the other Pokemon is better than the other Pokemon to the point of that it's not worth using the other Pokemon (or close to it). I Thundurus is better than Zapdos but does not outclass it. I would prefer a description between "competition" and "outclass,""stiff compettion" is better. Keep in mind that bulk and Tailwind are fairly good reasons to run Zapdos over Thundurus.

Seems silly to say it has a good support movepool when usually the only support it usually runs its Tailwind. I would focus only on Tailwind. Leave the rest for OO only. (Except for Sunny Day and Rain Dance; they shouldn't be mentioned anywhere)

Can also mention that it has good special attack

Remove Extrasensory; it sucks

Set details

84 defense evs lets Zapdos survive 3 Landorus-T Rock Slides, be 2HKO'd by Stone Edge and always lives a Mega Kangaskhan Double Edge
Seems silly to mention this when the curren spread has no Def EVs. Remove this

Mention with 252 HP that it also lets Zapdos also always survives Mega Kang Double Edge and be only 3HKOed by Landorus-T's Rock Slide thanks to the Sitrus Berry.

Mention that Protect can also be run over HP Ice if your team prefers Heat Wave's coverage and higher damage output over HP Ice

Usage Tips
Remove the mention of Light Screen
With that list of missed out KOes, add Mega Charizard-Y. That's an important KO missed.

Team Options
Ground-type partners who can use Earthquake without hitting Zapdos whilst enjoying Tailwind support, such as Garchomp and Excadrill. Zapdos in turn checks bulky Water-types for them. Fire-types also benefit from having Water-types checked.

Remove Hariyama. It is used on TR teams, and Zapdos doesn't fit well in TR and Hariyama is too slow for Tailwind.

OO
With Life Orb, add Mega Charizard-Y to that list
Add Choice Specs (it works)
Add Roost
Remove Extrasensory and replace it with HP Flying. It hits Fighting-types and Amoonguss harder than Extrasensory. Also hits Mega Venusaur and Ludicolo unlike Heat Wave.
Add Discharge when paired with Ground-type partners
Add Volt Switch. Ability to switch out can help maintain momentum which is important when using Tailwind

Checks and counters
Bulky.
Remove Heatran; both 3HKO each other with TBolt and Ancient Power / HP Ice respectively, but Zapdos is faster. TBolt slightly outdamage Heat Wave too.
Utility. Can add Manetric before it Mega Evolves, as it can redirect Zapdos' Thunderbolt with Lightning Rod and receive a Special Attack boost in the process.

Also make Lolk's changes
 

SpaceBass

☆ALOLA VERA420: FUKK AMOONGUS AND UR MOM
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Added everything Lolk and Darkmalice posted, don't think I missed anything. The bit where I forgot to change the EV spread in the description was an overlook, sorry about that.
 

Darkmalice

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OO

Hidden Power Flying can be run over Heat Wave on the Special Attacking set to hit Fighting Types and still be able to hit Amoonguss/Mega Venusaur
Discharge is a good choice when paired with Ground types, and works well paired with Mega Sceptile
Remove "being run over Heat Wave." Reason, it's much more likely to replace HP Ice as they are incompatible together
We're not doing ORAS analyses yet, so remove Mega Sceptile


Checks and Counters

Split **Typing Advantage** into **Offensive Typing Advantage** and **Defensive Typing Advantage**
Rotom-H and Mega Ven belong in the defensive tab, the others in offensive

Trick Room falls under a separate **Speed control** tab unlike the rest of **Utility**. We also need to mention some examples of TR users e.g. Cresselia who walls Zapdos

Mention some users of Taunt too e.g. Thundurus


The **Speed** section is unnecessary
  • Terrakion falls under **Offensive Type Advantage**
  • Latios falls under bulky attackers (it's actually more specially bulky than Hydreigon which is also there)
  • Remove the line about Tailwind. Tailwind countering Tailwind is pretty silly, and Zapdos actually fares well against the common Tailwind users (Togekiss, Zapdos). On a small note, if we did decide to include Tailwind, it would be under **Speed Control** anyways


After these updates, this should be ready for a QC check.
 
Last edited:

SpaceBass

☆ALOLA VERA420: FUKK AMOONGUS AND UR MOM
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Made the above changes.

Sorry about silly overlooks, was receiving a stream of text message abuse while updating and it was incredibly distracting.
 
Last edited:

Darkmalice

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People miss things all the time. There's been far worse cases than yours; you missed like 1 or 2 things. There's no need to sweat :)

Let's get the ball moving

QC 1/3
 

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