Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Metagame Discussion

[Fireburn]

'Sup.

This is a general discussion thread for anything related to the current ORAS Ubers metagame. You can discuss things such as new Primals, new Megas, Soul Dew, or how on earth to beat Mega Rayquaza here. Cool new sets for Pokemon that work well in the metagame can also go here. The Ubers ladder has just opened recently, so have fun trying out all the new stuff!

STATS AND SUCH

Read This First

Primal Groudon

Typing: Ground / Fire
Ability: Desolate Land
Stats: 100/180/160/150/90/90
New Move: Precipice Blades - Ground, Physical - 120 BP, 85 Acc, 16 PP

Primal Kyogre

Typing: Water
Ability: Primordial Sea
Stats: 100/150/90/180/160/90
New Move: Origin Pulse - Water, Special - 110 BP, 85 Acc, 16 PP

Mega Rayquaza

Typing: Dragon / Flying
Ability: Delta Stream
Stats: 105/180/100/180/100/115
New Move: Bird Combat Dragon Ascent - Flying, Physical - 120 BP, 100 Acc, 8 PP - -1 Defense and Special Defense to user

FAQ

Read This First

CAN WE BAN MEGA RAYQUAZA PLSSSSSSSSS

Chill. It's been banned. Read more about it here

PRETTY PLSSSSSSSSS

Cut that out.

Can Mega Rayquaza hold any item?

Yes.

How do I Mega Evolve Rayquaza?

Give it the move Dragon Ascent. It must know Dragon Ascent in order to be able to Mega Evolve.

Oh why am I telling you this. IT'S BEEN BANNED. (But you're free to use this knowledge elsewhere)

How do I use Primal Groudon/Kyogre?

Give them the Red/Blue Orb, respectively. They will transform automatically upon being sent out into battle.

Can I use Primal formes and a Mega Evolution on the same team?

Yes. You can also use both Primal formes on the same team.

How do the new Heavy Weathers work?

Here's what they do:

Primal Groudon - Desolate Land - Does everything Drought does + all Water-type attacks will fail.
Primal Kyogre - Primordial Sea - Does everything Drizzle does + all Fire-type attacks will fail.
Mega Rayquaza - Delta Stream - Flying-type Pokemon take halved damage from Rock-, Ice-, and Electric-type attacks.

Heavy Weather is summoned as soon as the Pokemon with the ability is switched into battle. If the Pokemon with the Heavy Weather ability is fainted or switched out, the corresponding Heavy Weather will vanish and the weather will be reset to clear skies. Heavy Weather abilities cannot be overwritten by normal weather summoning moves or abilities such as Sunny Day, Sand Stream, etc. They can only be overwritten by other Heavy Weather abilities. Cloud Nine and Air Lock will bypass all effects of Heavy Weather abilities as per usual. Mold Breaker does NOT cancel Heavy Weather effects.

Is Soul Dew confirmed?

Yes.

Does Blaziken get Ice Punch?

Nope. That was an error on Pokemon Japan's part.

Think before you post and have fun! :]

 

[Steve Angello]

Fuck Mega Ray is OP. I ll stall/balance my way anyway

Metagame: Deoxys + 5 random sweepers

I like using Tenta and Forre atm, I ll write some paragraphs later


#banmegaray

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Obligatory ban MRay post

This meta right now seems very HO based but I will write paras later in more detail.

 

[AJC]

mega ray is fucking amazing but you shouldn't blow your wad getting it out as soon as possible because of the way it does it mega means that you have a perfectly viable base ray who can still deal loads of damage with 150 base attacking stats with a real item and dragon ascent will deal loads of damage even from base ray this talk about opportunity costs is to me stupid because that means people stop preparing for legit threats and wonder why they get beaten by them because they didn't take them into consideration.

primal groudon is so fucking good that it's probably a good thing that it needs to hold a item it's singlehandly responsible for making choiced kyogre pretty much vanish there's almost no point to run base groudon unless your wierd or really want to have lefties or something.

 

[Halcyon.]

Groudon is actually REALLY good right now becausde of its ability to check Primal Groudon, EKiller, and Mega Rayquaza with EQ Dragon Tail and T-Wave. Not being weak to Ground is a godsend for physical walls in this metagame.

 

[Inspirited]

You have to remember the opportunity cost that comes with regular Groudon though, in that you lock yourself out of a one of the best pivots and Stealth Rock setters in the game. Groudon also serves these roles, but Primal Groudon does them better, in most respects, depending on what you want to check.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

Maybe the OP should say that Mold Breaker and its clones do not affect the Heavy Weathers, and that Delta Stream will not be ignored if Mega Rayquaza is hit with a Critical Hit.

 

[Halcyon.]

You have to remember the opportunity cost that comes with regular Groudon though, in that you lock yourself out of a one of the best pivots and Stealth Rock setters in the game. Groudon also serves these roles, but Primal Groudon does them better, in most respects, depending on what you want to check.

The ground weakness means that Primal Groudon CAN'T do these things as well as Groudon can, which definitely means that, as a defensive option, Groudon is the better pick imo.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 309-364 (76.4 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 305-360 (75.4 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 157-186 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 302-356 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 200-238 (49.5 - 58.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I mean, we're talking about the ability to check the three biggest sweepers in the meta right now. I honestly thing the opportunity cost of using Groudon is pretty slim when we are talking about a defensive role. If you mean that you don't get to run the second most threatening offensive Pokemon in the tier (RP/Double Dance PDon), well then that's different and I would agree with you on that. But Groudon is definitely still a viable and good option to check some of the biggest threats in the tier right now threats.

 

[ChaosNemesis]

I mean, we're talking about the ability to check the three biggest sweepers in the meta right now.

3/4 I don't think GeoXern falls behind...

 

[Inspirited]

Yeah, the fairy resistance is big since Yveltal is still extremely viable and that bring Xerneas to the plate to check it and mega Ray potentially. Geoxern is not a threat to be counted out. Primal Don also only has one weakness so long as nothing interferes with Desolate Land, and has much greater defense. These qualities make it the best offensive pivot and Stealth Rock setters we have right now.

 

[Halcyon.]

I never said Groudon could or should check Xerneas. I just said that it checks the three Pokemon I mentioned above, which is pretty huge. Not to mention Geo Xern can OHKO Primal Groudon after rocks with Focus Blast unless it's SDef so I don't think that's an entirely fair Pokemon to bring up when discussing physically defensive Groudon. Pairing Groudon with Klefki is always an option and covering all these threats in two slots is pretty amazing.

The point I was trying to make is that Groudon has the ability to check Mega Ray, offensive Primal Groudon, and EKiller Arceus, which makes it not only viable but good, in my opinion.

 

[Inspirited]

I never said Groudon could or should check Xerneas. I just said that it checks the three Pokemon I mentioned above, which is pretty huge. Not to mention Geo Xern can OHKO Primal Groudon after rocks with Focus Blast unless it's SDef so I don't think that's an entirely fair Pokemon to bring up when discussing physically defensive Groudon. Pairing Groudon with Klefki is always an option and covering all these threats in two slots is pretty amazing.

The point I was trying to make is that Groudon has the ability to check Mega Ray, offensive Primal Groudon, and EKiller Arceus, which makes it not only viable but good, in my opinion.

Neither of them are good checks to mega ray on there own since +2 Mega ray has a 50% chance to OHKO max max Groudon with +2 Life Orb Dragon Ascent, and max max Primal Groudon has a 50% chance to be KOed by +2 Life Orb Earthquake. Both can force out E-Killer once if fully defensive (+2 Life Orb Earthquake doesn't KO after rocks on fully defensive PDon). Offensive Primal Groudon is 2HKOed by defensive Groudon's Precipice Blades, so it can check Dragon Claw or SD variants assuming a free +2 wasn't factored into this. That is a part of its niche, and it shares it with Landorus-T who won't take massive damage from 2 Precipice Blades. The other part is having Drought, which is something Landorus does not have. I can go into trying to find partners for PDon vs Regular Don, but that would make this far more tl;dr than it needs to be. I am saying that Groudon is viable, but it is in a tough spot in terms of viability, since its niche over Primal Groudon and Landorus-T is a bit obscure. Also, you lock yourself out if running the plethora of Primal Groudon sets should you use regular don.

 

[EmblemLord]

Neither variant of Groudon can handle SD Mega-Ray, which is usually Adamant.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega-Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 407-480 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega-Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal-Groudon: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Shounen]

Fml, I wrote this huge thing and it got deleted. ;-;. Anyways, Primal Groudon is superpowerful IMO, that Desolate Land really makes it a great counter to Kyogre, and that typing gives it a Fairy resistance. Primal Groudon is the new best counter to Ogre, since it's immune to it's water STAB and Thunder. I can really see Primal Groudon doing a bunch of work.

Primal Kyogre is really just mediocre. The only reason I see to run Ogre with Blue Orb is for Primordial Sea which can cancel out Desolate Land and Delta Stream. Ogre is just better as normal IMO.

Just ban Mega-Ray. Holy crap, it's so versatile with a Life Orb, Scarf, Band, anything! The speed boost really helps it to be able to outspeed some threats and at +1, it can outspeed the whole meta. The new move it gets wrecks everything and anything, it's essentially a 180 BP move hitting at 180 base attack (580 or so at level 100 Adamant [forgot the number had it before my post was deleted, damn mobile], and 754 [I think] after CB), that probably kills Groudon, though I'd need to calc it (Mega-Ray still hasn't been released on the calc). What I'm trying to convey is that Mega-Ray hits like a fucking truck. It has so many viable moves that it's hard to predict, and can even run a special set if it really wanted to.

Edit: nvm, can't OHKO max Groudon, but still hits like a truck to Double-Dance Don.

 

[EmblemLord]

A Scarfed Xern with 128 Def EVs to avoid the OHKO from +2 Espeed (after SR) makes a decent revenge killer to SD Mega-Ray. It loses to DD, but so does any other Xern build I've tested. Standard GeoXern loses 1v1, as it's slower and even unboosted Dragon Ascent can OHKO after SR. Mega-Ray not running any Dragon moves outside of Mixed/Special sets means you really do not want to be switching it in unless you want to be KOed.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mega-Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 363-426 (86.6 - 101.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[shrang]

Stall lives, bruvas!

Mega Sableye + Lugia + SpD P Donner core works really well to beat most threats in the metagame atm. Just make sure rocks being off is your top priority because you'll really be depending on an intact Multiscale Lugia to fend off Mega Ray, which is how Mega Sableye comes in, and hopefully in your last three slots you have Defog support as well.

 

[Level 56]

Yesterday I decided to ladder with my xatu team and went 10-0 with ease. I've noticed that its very important to keep stealth rocks away from your side because if they are at your side, ray just shits over lugia and the rest of the team but till now the team is doing very fine. In this metagame, magic bouncers are very useful as far as I have seen as nearly all the teams are offensive. Xerneas is not a problem at all thanks to sp defensive primal don and cm primal kyogre is also very decent.

 

[Gloating]

I'm happy stall is still alive and well. As others have mentioned a simple core of Magic Bounce + Lugia handle Mega Rayquaza offense teams quite well. Add Reflect in to the mix and it's even harder to break through. It's only been 5 days and the meta game is already able to handle Mega Rayquaza so it really doesn't need to go. Of course Mega Rayquaza will never be bad no matter what but neither will Xerneas, Arceus, PGroudon but this is the Uber tier for a reason and while it is the best Pokemon in the tier, it still has it's fair share of problems which Vertex mentioned in his post. Like I said before, the meta game is still quite new so we just needed to adapt and find creative ways to handle it which players have been so far. Latios and Latias will be great Defoggers so I'm excited for that. They also out speed Rayquaza before going Mega which is a nice bonus and having a free Calm Mind boost means they will be hitting pretty hard with no drawbacks. Lets not forget that they check Kyogre as well. Talking about Kyogre I feel really bad for it lol, PGroudon, Mega Rayquaza and the Lati twins high usage will make its life pretty hard.

 

[Fireburn]

Just FYI Skill Swap Deo-S/D beats Magic Bounce so even they aren't a sure bet.

 

[Gloating]

Just FYI Skill Swap Deo-S/D beats Magic Bounce so even they aren't a sure bet.

Which is why you run Defog as well. Deoxys-A/S can't handle both at the same time. Also Skill Swap is only good against stall so it's pretty much useless against offense which is more common. Deoxys-A/S already has 4mss since Taunt, Spikes and SR are pretty much mandatory and for the last slot moves such Magic Bounce are useful for opposing Deoxys and stuff like that. Deoxys-A wants to run SR, Psycho Boost and Extremespeed plus Taunt/Low Kick so it's hard to find room for it. You can also run Taunt on Sableye as well but another Defogger is all you really need.

EDIT: Just saw that you mentioned Deoxys-D not A but my point still stands.

 

[Fireburn]

Mega Ray doesn't really need Spikes because with SR it kills everything. Primal Groudon also arguably doesn't benefit too much from Spikes since most of its better checks float and it doesn't need much help sweeping with 504 Atk 120 BP STAB at its disposal. I mention those specifically since they are on basically every offensive team worth its salt atm. You could pretty easily drop Spikes for Skill Swap if the trade off is shredding Magic Bounce stall teams IMO, and still have Taunt for Defog.

 

[Conflict]

So i dont have much metagame analysis to add but so far this new Oras Uber metagame is kinda fun. Ive seen some neat solutions for these standard teams and just using standard teams for now has been tons of fun.

Im really enjoying this unbalanced tier at the moment because the strong centralization lets you explore some fun solutions. It might not be rly balanced since almost every team has MRay+PDon but its nontheless pretty exciting to see what people think of to stop certain threats.

Dittos a god btw.

 

[Newton Alves]

I don't know about you guys, but I believe ditto is pretty useful in this meta. This little guy has saved me a couple of times by now.

Also, when is the viability thread going to be created?

 

[Wargreymon]

It's only been 5 days and the meta game is already able to handle Mega Rayquaza so it really doesn't need to go.

lololol
No but seriously, lololol.
It doesn't help that your profile picture is a mega Rayquaza.

Real talk though, Mega Salamence is legit. Despite being completely inferior to ray (like everything) it can sweep pretty handily at the moment. Max HP mence can set up on Pdon if you land the intimidate which is freaking insane when you consider it has base 180 attack.

-1 252+ Atk Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(That's assuming adamant, I guess jolly will be more common but I just calc'd adamant anyway for the worst case scenario)

At +1 it just rampages through teams. Geoxern is OHKO'd after rocks (56% to OHKO without), max HP Kyogre is OHKO'd, Pdon can take a hit but can't OHKO back with stone edge so you can just spam roost until it misses (this goes for anything that relies on stone edge to hit flying types basically), bulky SD mega scizor can get OHKO'd after rocks… it's insane.

 

[Gloating]

Ditto sucks IMO. Can't switch into anything and it's useless against stall. Not a reliable check to Mega Rayquaza since you're forced to lock yourself into Extremespeed and forced to use EQ/PB against PGroudon which the user could predict and go to something immune to it or if you try to predict them to switch you risk getting your team swept. It's good in low ladder but against good players, not at all.