Counter That Threat! Doubles Version MK II

[Laga]

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
+SpD -Atk/Spe Nature
- Trick Room / Icy Wind
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Helping Hand
- Ice Beam / Light Screen

good old versatile speed control Cress. It's natural special bulk is plenty to defeat both of these Pokemon 1v2, especially in Trick Room, since Skymin can't flinch it then. The only thing it isn't safe to switch directly into is a Seed Flare, as it might hit you with that -2 SpD. If you're running Icy Wind, I'd recommend going for Light Screen if ur team is having problems with Skymin / Keldeo, and all the SpD investment is because Secret Sword won't do anything either way, and it's gonna die to a strong physical dark / bug move anyway. Latios works similarly in a more offensive fashion, but one flinch and you're dead meat.

 

[Arcticblast]

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out / Protect

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry / Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 168 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Tailwind / Thunder Wave
- Protect / Roost

You really can't go wrong here. This is two single target attackers weak to Flying. It can technically go wrong if Skymin gets a Special Defense drop, but chances are you'll kill another Pokemon with Kangaskhan, so...

 

[Fangame10]

(Sylveon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power Ground
- Calm Mind
- Protect

This is my current Sylveon set but to this specific core Sylveon is an excellent Trick room pokemon that sweeps these 2. While it may lack an ice move, Hyper voice's spread (with pixielate) is so good against these 2 especially considering Shaymin's sub-par defenses, and Keldeo's Fighting typing. Sylveon can 1hko Keldeo and 2hko shaymin alone with hyper voice. Also its massive SpD stat walls attacks coming from both pokemon. Although I think the only scenario that would make you lose is if that shaymin, being faster than you, constantly kept flinching you if you were not using a Trick room based team

 

[finally]

(Sylveon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power
- Calm Mind
- Protect

This is my current Sylveon set but to this specific core Sylveon is an excellent Trick room pokemon that sweeps these 2. While it may lack an ice move, Hyper voice's spread (with pixielate) is so good against these 2 especially considering Shaymin's sub-par defenses, and Keldeo's Fighting typing. Sylveon can 1hko Keldeo and 2hko shaymin alone with hyper voice. Also its massive SpD stat walls attacks coming from both pokemon. Although I think the only scenario that would make you lose is if that shaymin, being faster than you, constantly kept flinching you if you were not using a Trick room based team

your ivs are hp ground love even though you dont have hp gound

 

[Fangame10]

your ivs are hp ground love even though you dont have hp gound

When I copied over the sets it doesn't say it as HP ground or anything and kinda just forgot lol

 

[xzern]

shit i forgot about this sorry
voting period will now begin oo

nominations

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

i dont think i have to explain this.

you can also use the bulky sitrus set if you're super worried about flinches.

Manectric-Mega (M) @ Manectite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Discharge
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Overheat
- Protect

252 Spe Manectric-Mega out speeds both pokemon.
Discharge is an super effective spread move that gets boosted from STAB, 252 SpA EV and Nature and wont affect team mates.
Hidden Power is super effective on Shaymin along with Overheat providing a OHKO.
Protection is always important!

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sludge Wave
- Protect

4 HP and 252 SpD are to make Landorus more bulky since it is and will be the slowest on the playing field. Any defense EV's are pointless.
Earth Power may only affect Keldeo but it gets boost from Item, Ability, 252 SpA EV, Nature and STAB.
Hidden Power Ice combats Shaymin and is super effective.
Sludge Wave is a great spread move that's super effective against Shaymin.
Since Landorus is the slowest of the bunch, he will need protect to keep him safe.

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
+SpD -Atk/Spe Nature
- Trick Room / Icy Wind
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Helping Hand
- Ice Beam / Light Screen

good old versatile speed control Cress. It's natural special bulk is plenty to defeat both of these Pokemon 1v2, especially in Trick Room, since Skymin can't flinch it then. The only thing it isn't safe to switch directly into is a Seed Flare, as it might hit you with that -2 SpD. If you're running Icy Wind, I'd recommend going for Light Screen if ur team is having problems with Skymin / Keldeo, and all the SpD investment is because Secret Sword won't do anything either way, and it's gonna die to a strong physical dark / bug move anyway. Latios works similarly in a more offensive fashion, but one flinch and you're dead meat.

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out / Protect

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry / Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 168 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Tailwind / Thunder Wave
- Protect / Roost

You really can't go wrong here. This is two single target attackers weak to Flying. It can technically go wrong if Skymin gets a Special Defense drop, but chances are you'll kill another Pokemon with Kangaskhan, so...

(Sylveon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power Ground
- Calm Mind
- Protect

This is my current Sylveon set but to this specific core Sylveon is an excellent Trick room pokemon that sweeps these 2. While it may lack an ice move, Hyper voice's spread (with pixielate) is so good against these 2 especially considering Shaymin's sub-par defenses, and Keldeo's Fighting typing. Sylveon can 1hko Keldeo and 2hko shaymin alone with hyper voice. Also its massive SpD stat walls attacks coming from both pokemon. Although I think the only scenario that would make you lose is if that shaymin, being faster than you, constantly kept flinching you if you were not using a Trick room based team

also can you guys include sprites in your posts next time

 

[qsns]

totem

 

[Electrolyte]

Voting for TOTEM, as I think Thundurus has the highest chance out of all of the current nominations to win against this core in a typical setting (that is, it's not forced to switch in. none of these cores would actually work if they had to switch in tbh)

Because of all of the nominations can counter the core to a pretty reliable degree provided no hax happens, I am basing my judgement assuming hax does happen. When facing a Pokemon like Shaymin-S, you really do have to take flinchhax into account, as that is a large part of its viability. Thus, I'm voting Thundurus because 1. it's fast enough to evade the hax most of the time should Shaymin-S run a Modest nature and 2. is the only single Pokemon nomination that can do that. By itself, Thundurus can reliably win every single time as long as Shaymin-S is Modest, and even sometimes if it's Timid.

Manectric doesn't work because both Shaymin-S and Keldeo can OHKO it and it can't OHKO both at the same time. Unfortunately Landorus doesn't really help because it's not fast enough by itself. Sure you might take out both opponents, but you'll lose a Pokemon in the process, and I'd rather check the core than sacrifice something to counter it.

Cresselia doesn't work because flinchhax / spdef drop will most likely end it. It can barely even 2HKO Keldeo anyway. It can sponge the attacks OK, but Shaymin's Seed Flare is still a 2HKO 80% of the time. It's just too risky.

Mega Kang and Togekiss work but honestly MKang + the right redirector can beat almost any non specialized core so we don't really learn anything by choosing that

Sylveon gets smashed by flinchhax / relies too much on Trick Room.

 

[Laga]

By itself, Thundurus can reliably win every single time as long as Shaymin-S is Modest, and even sometimes if it's Timid.

I don't understand your point elyte...

In a thundy vs skymin situation, you would always use thunder wave, making modest / timid useless??? also modest skymin speed ties with timid thundy.


Anyways my vote also goes to totem, because he was the fastest to post thundy lmao

 

[Electrolyte]

I don't understand your point elyte...

In a thundy vs skymin situation, you would always use thunder wave, making modest / timid useless??? also modest skymin speed ties with timid thundy.


Anyways my vote also goes to totem, because he was the fastest to post thundy lmao

Why would you paralyze it if you could just take it down? If it spends a turn paralyzing Shaymin-S, then it'll get OHKOd by Keldeo. Unless you're assuming Skymin is already paralyzed, which is not really an assumption that we're allowed to make but would be the only one that explains your reaction...

In these counter that threat threads, we should really be assuming that everything is taking place in a fake, perfect environment devoid of any conditions that require being preset. Basically, assume this is a lead matchup. The ability to take advantage of forced switches is an added bonus, but not necessarily required, because in the real world the list of counters to a Pokemon will be very severely limited if they are allowed to switch out to a partner not involved in the core. Of course, if your counter can even threaten switch-ins, that's great, but we can't expect it to.

I know under normal circumstances you would probably paralyze first expecting things to switch out, which is an action that I agree with. However, in the terms of this discussion, we should look not to predict the opponent's next action but instead to just be able to beat the two Pokemon they have out.

 

[Bughouse]

Modest skymin does not exist. Stop acting like it does.

11:50 srk1214 !usage1337 shaymin-s spreads doubles
11:50 TIBot Timid:0/0/0/252/4/252 58.611% | Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 26.155% | Modest:4/0/0/252/0/252 9.637% | Modest:0/0/0/252/4/252 2.090% | Other 3.507%

 

[Enki]

TOTEMO