NU Hariyama [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Kiyo

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Taken over from The Goomy

QC: Dat Blast / Hollywood / CanadianWifier
GP: Psywaves / P Squared

Overview
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With a low base Speed, an intense case of four-moveslot syndrome, and weaknesses to common attacking types, it may come as a surprise to some that Hariyama acts as one of the best special tanks in the tier. But thanks to a monstrous base HP stat and two amazing abilities in Thick Fat and Guts, Hariyama finds a niche as a solid switch-in to many Fire and Ice-type attacks and status inducing moves alike. A huge Attack stat, access to Close Combat, incredible coverage options, and even priority such as Fake Out and Bullet Punch mean Hariyama can also pose a threat as an attacker.

Assault Vest
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name: Assault Vest
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: Fake Out / Earthquake
ability: Thick Fat / Guts
item: Assault Vest
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Close Combat is an incredibly powerful STAB option that will destroy anything that isn't resistant or immune to it. The only downside to this attack is the stat drop in both defenses, though this can be mitigated by switching out. Knock Off provides excellent coverage with Close CombatFighting / Dark coverage is only resisted by Fairies and allows Hariyama to damage Psychic- and Ghost-types that would otherwise freely switch in on Close Combat. Knock Off has the added benefit of removing the foe's item. This is great because most Fairy-types don't appreciate having their item removed, and there are quite a few Eviolite users in the tier. Bullet Punch provides extremely useful priority, allowing Hariyama to pick off weakened foes such as Archeops and Jynx. Fake Out is another form of priority that allows Hariyama to get useful chip damage which can rack up quickly with entry hazard support. It also gives Hariyama the ability to stall out turns of weather and Trick Room. Earthquake is good coverage for common Poison-type switch-ins, such as Garbodor and Qwilfish, which resist Hariyama's STAB Close Combat. Heavy Slam is a niche option that allows Hariyama to surprise Granbull and Togetic on the switch in. Factoring in Stealth Rock damage, Heavy Slam scores a 2HKO on defensive Togetic and has a chance to 2HKO defensive Granbull. Ice Punch is an option that can allow Hariyama to deal a respectable amount of damage to Vileplume and Scyther.

Set Details
========

Maximum Attack investment allows Hariyama to hit as hard as possible, while maximum Special Defense investment adds more overall bulk on the special side than maximum HP investment would. Thick Fat allows Hariyama to switch into most Fire- and Ice-type attacks easily. Guts is another option that allows Hariyama to take on Will-O-Wisp users such as Pyroar, Mismagius, and Rotom without the fear of getting burned. It should also be noted that an alternative EV spread of 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD can be used to avoid the OHKO from Jolly Choice Band Sawk's Close Combat 100% of the time, as well as take a plethora of physical attacks better.

Usage Tips
========

Thanks to Thick Fat, Hariyama acts as a solid switch-in to special attacking Fire- and Ice-types such as Cryogonal, Typhlosion, and Pyroar. Hariyama can use Fake Out to stall turns of Trick Room and weather while also scoring crucial chip damage on faster offensive Pokemon. It should be noted that while Close Combat is extremely powerful, the defense drops can be troublesome for Hariyama due to its naturally low Speed stat. For example, faster Substitute users such as Klinklang can attempt to score KOs that they normally couldn't on Hariyama by forcing it to lower its defenses with Close Combat to break their Substitute.

Team Options
========

Hariyama pairs well with Pokemon weak to Fire and Ice, as they appreciate Hariyama's ability to switch in on Pokemon such as Cryogonal and Typhlosion. Physically defensive Pokemon such as Seismitoad, Vileplume, and Rhydon, which can handle strong physical attackers such as Feraligatr and Kangaskhan, pair well with Hariyama. Other good defensive teammates include Steel- and Rock-type Pokemon such as Steelix, Probopass, and Rhydon, which can take powerful Flying-type attacks aimed at Hariyama and set up Stealth Rock. Bulkier Psychic-type Pokemon such as Uxie and Xatu can take pretty much every Fairy- and Psychic-type attack aimed at Hariyama. Rapid Spinners and Defoggers such as Cryogonal, Togetic, and Prinplup allow Hariyama to switch into strong attacks more easily by clearing the field of entry hazards. Wish and Healing Wish users such as Audino, Mesprit, and Lilligant can allow Hariyama to continuously take hits in the late-game; this is extremely helpful, as Hariyama has no other way of recovering HP. If you find that you need Hariyama to fulfill a more offensive role on your team, Spikes or Toxic Spikes setters such as Garbodor and Qwilfish allow Hariyama to rack up damage quickly with Fake Out.

Choice Band
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name: Choice Band
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Earthquake / Facade
move 4: Bullet Punch
ability: Guts
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 116 Def / 140 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Close Combat is a STAB move that hits hard, and with a Guts boost, even Pokemon that resist it won't appreciate switching in on one. Close Combat's defense drops are less of an issue to offensive Hariyama, but it's something to keep in mind. Knock Off provides great neutral coverage with Close Combat and can remove pesky Eviolite and Leftovers from common Fairy-type switch-ins such as Togetic and Granbull. Facade is a great move for breaking down typical Fighting-type counters, such as Weezing and Vileplume, which commonly rely on status to combat Fighting-types. Earthquake offers super effective coverage against Qwilfish and Garbodor and gives Hariyama a way to hit Rock- and Steel-types for super effective damage without lowering its defenses. Bullet Punch can be used to pick off weakened threats and frail attackers weak to it, such as Mega Audino, Archeops, and Jynx. Its increased priority also provides utility late-game. Ice Punch can be used to 2HKO defensive Vileplume while providing solid neutral coverage and hitting Flying-types for super effective damage.

Set Details
========

This set faces heavy competition from the likes of Sawk and Primeape, which are naturally faster, and in the case of Sawk, hit harder with similar coverage options. The main niche Hariyama has over other Choice Band Fighting-types is that it does not have to worry about status ailments, specifically burn, thanks to Guts. Choice Band is a solid option for teams that prefer to hit hard right away and value Hariyama's natural bulk a little more than Primeape or Sawk's. Guts is useful in these situations to avoid being crippled by Will-O-Wisp and Scald burns. The given EV spread allows Hariyama to outpace everything up to uninvested Lanturn, which Hariyama can hit before it Volt Switches out. Maximum Attack investment and an Adamant nature allow Hariyama to take full advantage of the Guts boost and hit foes hard. The remaining 116 EVs are thrown into Defense to allow Hariyama to pivot into physical attackers with greater ease.

Usage Tips
========

Hariyama should be used as a wallbreaker, aim to come in on bulkier Pokemon, and fire off powerful Choice Band-boosted attacks so that a teammate can sweep late-game. Thanks to Guts, Hariyama can switch in without much worry on bulky Water-types looking to score burns with Scald, such as Seismitoad and Lanturn. Hariyama can look to switch in on Pokemon that rely on status moves such as Toxic and Will-O-Wisp to deal the majority of their damage, such as Audino and Gourgeist-XL. Make sure to watch out for Knock Off, as losing Hariyama's Choice Band can be devastating. Hariyama can come in on many of the Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon in the tier and threaten them out with a STAB Close Combat.

Team Options
========

Sticky Web setters such as Leavanny and Kricketune can ease Hariyama's troubles with faster Pokemon and give it more opportunities to fire off boosted attacks. Entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Crustle and Qwilfish can give Hariyama an even easier time breaking down the opposition. Other physical attackers appreciate having Pokemon such as Weezing and Granbull worn down. Feraligatr, Kangaskhan, and Klinklang all appreciate these Pokemon weakened in their attempts to sweep late-game. If you want to go another route, Trick Room support can be a useful form of speed control that takes advantage of Hariyama's subpar Speed. Notable setters are Carbink and Uxie, both of which have the ability to set up Stealth Rock and dual screens. If you choose to run Trick Room support an alternative EV spread of 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD will benefit you more than a spread with Speed investment.

Other Options
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Hariyama can opt to run a defensive RestTalk set to favor longevity over initial bulk, but it is significantly weaker than Assault Vest variants and foes can take advantage of turns during which Hariyama is forced to sleep. Hariyama can directly take advantage of Guts by activating it with either Flame Orb or Toxic Orb, though it's very likely that Hariyama will come across status in a match, and the extra residual damage can rack up quickly. Hariyama can use its other ability, Sheer Force, to boost the power of several of its moves, but this is typically inferior to a Choice Band set. Sets choosing to forgo Assault Vest in favor of Leftovers can utilize Toxic or Bulk Up instead of a coverage or priority move. Stone Edge can be used to hit Flying-types, such as Scyther, Mantine, Pelipper and Swanna, which would otherwise take negligible damage from Hariyama's other coverage options.

Checks & Counters
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**Fairy-types**: Fairy-type Pokemon such as Granbull, Togetic, and Mega Audino can hit Hariyama for super effective damage with their STAB move of choice and typically shrug off attacks such as Close Combat and Knock Off, or in Mega Audino's case, takes the hit and KO a Hariyama with lowered defenses. However, Togetic doesn't appreciate taking a Knock Off, and all three need to watch out for Heavy Slam.

**Bulky Poison-types**: Weezing, Garbodor, and Qwilfish all take minimal damage from Hariyama's attacks and can stack entry hazards against it. Weezing can burn Hariyama with Will-O-Wisp and use Pain Split to heal off any damage it takes.

**Flying-types**: Offensive Flying-types such as Scyther, Rotom-S, and Archeops can force Hariyama out with their powerful STAB attacks, with only Archeops taking much damage from any of Hariyama's coverage moves. Defensive Flying-types such as Pelipper and Mantine can shrug off any of Hariyama's attacks and support their team with Defog or choose to weaken Hariyama with their super effective STAB moves.

**Physical Attackers**: Strong physical attackers such as Kangaskhan, Feraligatr, and Sawk can overwhelm Hariyama fairly easily throughout the course of the match, forcing it to take entry hazard damage every time it has to switch out and come back in. While variants of Hariyama with 128 Defense EVs can take some physical attacks better, it's not recommended that it stay in to take these hits unless absolutely necessary.

**Psyshock Users**: Special attackers with access to Psyshock, such as Ninetales, Xatu, and Mesprit, can be troublesome for Hariyama, considering its Defense stat is typically weaker than its Special Defense stat. It should be noted that most common Psyshock users don't appreciate a Knock Off.
 
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Punchshroom

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Ice Punch is another coverage option that allows Hariyama to hit Vileplume and Sandslash harder.
Close Combat hits Sandslash harder, so replace Sandslash with Scyther. I would actually take Ice Punch out of the set and just give it a Moves mention tbh, since it fails to beat both of its main targets, Plume and Scyther (without SR), even on the switch, unlike EQ and Heavy Slam.

Add Togetic alongside Granbull as a Heavy Slam target, but 2HKOes even without Stealth Rock.

Earthquake is strong, reliable coverage. Nails Dragalge switch ins. Hits stuff like Spiritomb and Vileplume for respectable damage.
Replace with Garbodor or Qwilfish, and remove Vileplume. You don't have to hit them on the switch either since they do not immediately threaten Yama.

Note that most Fairies heavily dislike being Knocked Off.

You can probably combine Vileplume and Dragalge into their own section, aka "Bulky Poison-types", along with Weezing, Garbodor, and Qwilfish, and mention the coverage moves they should watch out for.

Remove other mentions of Tomb in general. Scyther in C&C too.

Hariyama is weak to Psyshock too, and most physical attackers in general (especially after a Close Combat). Maybe rename Offensive Flying-types to simply "Physical Attackers"?
 

Kiyo

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This is QC ready, if anyone has suggestions for UT that would be appreciated as I've hit a mental block apparently. Also I'd like to implement a more offensive set into a main analysis, whether it be CB or Guts...thoughts?
 

marilli

With you
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Dunno maybe mentioning CC's defense drops could be helpful. You can't just spam CC vs stuff that carries sub cuz they will often try to make him use CC and drop its defenses then ko him, but you can predict that etc etc.

add defensive resttalk set in oo kind of like how they used to do it in previous gens? it does massive damage so that's kind of a waste, but it's something. And yeah both CB and Guts are good, i wouldn't even mind if you both are on main analysis tbh

also just a nitpick but when you slash moves there's a space like Move 1 / Move 2
 

Blast

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Is Guts really worth a full slash on AV? Ik you used it in your RMT and everything but that team is literally the only one I've ever seen that actually prefers it > Thick Fat lol, it's probably just better off in Set Details

Also I don't think bulky Grasses (or at least Leafeon) should be in C&C since Hariyama 2HKOes it with CC easily, and Vileplume falls more under bulky Poisons.
 

Kiyo

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added ut regarding cc, added a defensive restalk set in oo, fixed formatting, removed mention of grass types in c&c.

I definitely think guts deserves a full slash on the main set, tbh you still eat powerful attacks like Specs Fire blast from typh and Specs Hyper Voice from Pyroar. Especially when thinks like support Mismagius and non-choice Pyroar are gaining popularity I think it helps a ton when trying to beat special attackers. I know FLCL has used guts av yama to some success so maybe he can chime in. I'm fine with it going in set details, but it has merit.

I'll edit in a physical attacking set in a bit, I honestly think CB and Guts can fit on the same set with the proper slashes but if two sets is the way we wanna go i can do that too.
 

watashi

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yeah guts is really useful for dealing with poison-types such as weezing and vileplume. it's definitely viable for teams that already have one or two solid fire resists
 

Kiyo

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implemented all suggestions to this point. added a guts attacking set. I personally think CB fits nicely slashed onto this set with the ev spread and coverage moves being so similar, i can flip-flop the order though if CB is preferred over status orb.

Flame Orb or Toxic Orb on guts set? any extra suggestions for UT or TO are always appreciated.

this is qc ready again
 

Ares

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It really depends on how one is going to play the Hariyama, if they plan on staying in until it dies then I would say Flame Orb, if not then Toxic. Overall Toxic is probably the better choice, but I would mention in Set Details the amount of turns it take for Toxic Orb to be more than Flame Orb.
 

Kiyo

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It really depends on how one is going to play the Hariyama, if they plan on staying in until it dies then I would say Flame Orb, if not then Toxic. Overall Toxic is probably the better choice, but I would mention in Set Details the amount of turns it take for Toxic Orb to be more than Flame Orb.
alright I'll mention both with pros and cons in set details but give toxic the main slash.

EDIT: any ideas for other EV spreads? i just kinda threw that one up there because it seemed optimal. outpacing 16 spe garbodor could be cool, but i'm not sure if that falls under speed creeping and I'm sure theres an overall bulkier build that sacrifices on some speed
 

soulgazer

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outspeeding 16 spe garbodor is considered speed creep

also isnt guts supposed to be AV but guts > thick fat? why would I run a flame orb hariyama or a fast CB hariyama when Sawk exist? If i use Orb/CB hari it would be on TR and i don't think that alone deserves a set, just OO lol
 

Kiyo

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I can cut the guts attacker set if you want, I mainly included it because 3-4 qc members were hyping band and guts sets in the old thread lol. I don't necessarily feel that just because something is outclassed it doesn't deserve an analysis (provided its still viable) I mean if thats the case then why would we even write up armaldo and other mons that are straight outclassed? they still fulfill the role even if something else does it better.
 

Blast

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That's kind of a bad example though. Armaldo is required to have an analysis because it's fully evolved, so it's guaranteed to get one even it is outclassed. Hariyama on the other hand does have a valid niche in the meta so its analysis should reflect that, if a set is bad / outclassed there's no need to include it. (Not necessarily saying Band / Orb Hariyama is bad though since I never used it, but just wanted to point that out)

This looks fine otherwise, I'll give you QC 1/3 once we figure out what to do with the Guts attacker
 

Punchshroom

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I noticed you removed Ice Punch completely from the analysis, even though that wasn't what I told you to do (mention in Moves). Stone Edge can go to OO since it can take down bulky Flying-types such as Scyther, Pelipper, and Mantine, but otherwise it isn't very useful.
 

Kiyo

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So i played around with yama a bit over the weekend to get a better idea if we should even include a second set/what it should be. status orb sucks and should be OO at best so i've changed the set to reflect this. CB yama may not be as powerful or fast as sawk and primeape but it definitely has a huge niche over them. Shrugging off burns and taking advantage of random toxics/tspikes is huge. being able to switch into seismitoad freely for example is a huge plus that yama has over sawk. I also cleaned up some of the stuff I messed up while editing, like adding ice punch to moves. stone edge is now in OO.

If anyone disagrees with choice band getting it's own set let me know otherwise I'll leave it on and move this to 1/3.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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I think I might have said this before, but I'm pretty sure that the 4 EVs in speed on the first set should be moved to SpD, as having those extra EVs there counts as speed creep - but correct me if I'm wrong.
 

CanadianWifier

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I think I might have said this before, but I'm pretty sure that the 4 EVs in speed on the first set should be moved to SpD, as having those extra EVs there counts as speed creep - but correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't think the random 4 ev's count as creep, I'm pretty sure anything more than 4 does. who cares tho, that's pretty nitpicky either way :P

will qc this in like an hour on my phone kiyo bby <3
 

Punchshroom

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Ice Punch can allow Hariyama to deal a greater amount of damage to Vileplume and Scyther, it also keeps super effective coverage on Dragalge.
Facade is a great move for breaking down typical Fighting-type counters like Weezing and Vileplume, that commonly use status to combat Fighting-types.
You can mention Choice Band's role as a Poison-type lure. Also not sure if 0 Spe Garbodor is a thing, the EV spread can be reworked to outspeed up to Lanturn (140 EVs), since you want to clobber that before it Volt Switches away.
QC 2/3
 
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Ares

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Mention that Psyshock users don't like to take a Knock Off 3/3

If ppl wanna remove the band set at a later date that can be done, but seeing as no one has you can write this up.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Hey - I really think that heavy slam should be moved to OO or removed altogether, as the main target for it was slurpuff and to an extent the other fairy types. It does piss poor damage to granbull and mega audino, although I think it has a small chance to 2HKO togetic after knocking off its eviolite.
Also reminder to remove all mentions of slurpuff, sceptile, and draglage.

edit: kiyo stop being a john pls
 
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Ares

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Kiyo you need to update this and it'll be at 1/3 so someone can check that its updated for ORAS, then at 2/3 you can write it up.
 

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