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Gen 6 Mega Rayquaza
- Thread starter Gloating
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Isn't dragon ascent 120BP? Skarmory has no hope of walling SD mega ray.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Aerial Ace (120BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 203-239 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Skarmory can only "check" SD variant by tanking a hit and then phazing it out. But this doesn't threaten Mega-Ray at all, and it can just set up again later.
Yes but taking a hit and phazing is "good enough". Switch in and set up opportunities are not free, and Ray cannot "just set up again later" because it must still be able to switch in (potentially taking SR damage in addition to attack damage) AND then live a hit from whichever Pokemon is already in. If Ray is sufficiently worn down that whichever Pokemon it switches into is threatening to OHKO, it won't be able to "just set up again". In the same way Lugia countered XY EKiller, not because it can OHKO back, but because it can phaze it out.
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Who said it would be switching in? It could easily come in after something else has been KO'd and set up. Hell it might not even need to set up because it just wrecks everything by default for fun. If rocks are up it doesn't even need to boost to finish skarm off provided you haven't gotten the opportunity to roost.
The point is you said skarm walls the SD variant when it can't even avoid the 2HKO from a resisted hit. Phazing it out when it just destroyed you with a resisted hit is not good enough. It's a pathetic way of dealing with something that will just cause you the same amount of trouble the next time it comes in, except this time you won't be able to switch skarm in. God help you if this absolute behemoth is carrying V create. Physical walls really can't hope to stop it.
The point is you said skarm walls the SD variant when it can't even avoid the 2HKO from a resisted hit. Phazing it out when it just destroyed you with a resisted hit is not good enough. It's a pathetic way of dealing with something that will just cause you the same amount of trouble the next time it comes in, except this time you won't be able to switch skarm in. God help you if this absolute behemoth is carrying V create. Physical walls really can't hope to stop it.
So, Game freak thought Dragons were overpowered and created fairy.... just to give rayquaza an overpowered mega evo that doesnt need a mega stone so it can hold another item. Fairys are now merciless murdered without being a threat. They could just make Dragon ascent a Dragon type move, so fairys could switch on it. Togekiss would be the ultimate weapon against double dance + dragon ascent + earthquake. Unfortunatly, theyve made dragon ascent a flying type move, the best ofensive type now. But, well, something like air baloon magnet rise probopass can wall and paralise ray, if its only running dragon ascent + earthquake + ESpeed . If it gives up on ESpeed for , say, V-create, life orb ice shard mamoswine can defeat it. .. but enemy can just switch mega ray. Froslass can switch into Espeed and paralise or ice beam it. If you keep stealthe rock out of field, you can use a lv 1 aron. It can be a revenge killer. Turn 1 ray atacks, endeavor. Turn 2 ray attacks, toxic . If enemy switches to anything not ghost , it will be with 12hp left. Well, ray is not unbeatable, or lucky based. Yeah, It might reach near 100% usage. I rarely play ubers, but I would play it even if its in all teams. Now, lets wait for DP remakes, in wich primal arceus will be introduced if an ability called omnipotent, wich makes arceus imune to all moves not fired for another primal arceus , and any move from arceus will KO any pokemon thats not a primal arceus. Then, a arceus tier might be created.
If Ray comes in after something else has been KOed you're up a Pokemon and can fodder something to bring in e.g. EKiller to revenge without going down a Pokemon. Obviously the second time Ray comes in Skarmory won't be able to handle it anymore unless it's managed to Roost, but because Ray shouldn't be able to come in for free / set up for free it will be at lower HP and therefore within KO range of stuff that would not otherwise be able to KO. If it's carrying VCreate and SD then chances are it won't have EQ when Pokemon like the Diancie above survive a hit and OHKO back (they won't need Balloon).
If you assume that each time Ray comes in it has 100% HP AND it comes in on a Pokemon that can't threaten it and so get a free SD because the opponent is forced to switch out AND it is able to do this twice in a match, then you can't counter it with Skarmory. But in practice that doesn't happen. Like I said: in XY Ubers Lugia is a great counter to EKiller even if the only thing it can do is phaze it out.
1. Learn what a counter is
2. Lugia was able to check more than just 1 mon without being to weak to do anything else since it can run speed evs to allow for a faster roost. You cannot compare them, and if you are not comparing them do not bring lugia up.
3. Lugia can actually damage and phaze.
4. As long as ray weakens your best answer to it when unboosted its fine.
I am on a phone, sorry if any confusion in what I typed
I don't know what you're trying to prove anymore. You're dancing around the fact that you said skarmory walls sets lacking V create when it doesn't. You don't wall this thing, simple as that.
Oh and as mentioned above, learn the definition of a counter. Skarmory does not counter mega Rayquaza. All it does is pathetically push it away while taking massive damage in the process meaning it can do this once max, and on top of that it's extremely passive.
The fact of the matter is that mega Ray will single handedly ruin any fun the tier has going for it. As time goes on this monster could feasibly have 100% usage (or extremely close to that) and games will be reduced to mega Ray vs mega Ray. Such a shame too considering Ubers used to be one of the most fun tiers.
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yeah
It's weak to Stealth Rock because the weather effect doesn't come out until after hazards damage. However, I believe that other flying types switching in while Delta Stream is active will take only 12.5%. For example, an Yveltal switching in on Mega Rayquaza will only take 12.5% from Stealth Rock so long as Delta Stream has activated. I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to work.
replays are down, but the simulator doesn't do that and halcyon is indeed correct:
the pale green is how much the m-ray took from sr when delta stream was already up.
http://pastebin.com/wXPTxjfV
You are correct. I forgot to take into account Air Lock from Rayquaza when I switched it in. Silly me.
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hello, i came here to lol at the comments, and ask if there is a poll of any kinda out yet so i can see what a big group of people think about Mega ray being banned from even the banned list/ubers
I'm sorry, but this isnt the place to talk about suspect tests or bans. This is also enforced with the fact that suspect tests are abolished. Also, this kind of mentality was common when GeoXern was introduced. I remember it like it was yesterday.
"We should move Yveltal to OU because it loses to Xerneas."
"All teh dargons r bed nao."
Good times...
Like so many people have already said about your use of the work counter...
Mega Ray is too overpowered for any one Pokemon to be able to counter. It's as simple as that. And you think SKARMORY of all Pokemon could hope to counter it? I don't know what you're smoking, but I might want some of that stuff one of these days.
That would require it to be able to survive a hit from a move, which would be extremely difficult with Mega Ray at +2. Especially Dragon Ascent, one of the hardest-hitting moves in the entire game.
It can definitely survive +2 Dragon Ascent. The problem is that it dies to any variant that carries V-Create or Fire Blast. Mega-Ray can also run Mixed to nail any physical wall that attempts to switch in. This thing has incredible versatility, and anything that kind of checks one build falls to the other.
it lives any move by default due to sturdy. +2 dragon ascent doesnt even OHKO after rocks.
Are there any notable OHKOs /2HKOs for Dragon Ascent or any other moves if Rayquaza holds CB over LO?
Or are there significant benefits if I were to pick CB over LO or Adamant over Jolly?
Or are there significant benefits if I were to pick CB over LO or Adamant over Jolly?
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jelome1989 If you were to go CB Jolly > LO Jolly:
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 322-379 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
instead of
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 278-329 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 379-447 (90.4 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
instead of
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 329-387 (78.5 - 92.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
so w/ CB Arc has only a 25% chance to live (after SR) while Xern just gets flat-out annihilated
TBH you wouldn't really want to go Adamant > Jolly, as you give up a lot of a speed and while the power is nice, things are able to revenge you way more easily (and your opponent can tell if you're Adamant w/ the damage calc and your damage output)
oh and JSteele if you still need it (no one answered you rip):
https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
you can just replace the base stats w/ the new mega
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 322-379 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
instead of
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 278-329 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 379-447 (90.4 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
instead of
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Brave Bird vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 329-387 (78.5 - 92.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
so w/ CB Arc has only a 25% chance to live (after SR) while Xern just gets flat-out annihilated
TBH you wouldn't really want to go Adamant > Jolly, as you give up a lot of a speed and while the power is nice, things are able to revenge you way more easily (and your opponent can tell if you're Adamant w/ the damage calc and your damage output)
oh and JSteele if you still need it (no one answered you rip):
https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
you can just replace the base stats w/ the new mega
In theory Skarm is a decent check to any variant lacking a fire coverage move (I also agree with using Counter), so pair it with Lugia to tackle mixed variants and you have a decent tandem to not insta-lose to MRay.
In practice I've found they're less than reliable- you can't really afford to scout for that fire coverage because that means allowing more turns for MRay to lay down some hurt. More importantly though, is that that pair isn't doing a whole load to MRay (unless you nail it with Counter, but that's far from reliable imo), which means that it'll be free to come back in later and start smashing you again, at which point you come to appreciate that Skarm only checks specific sets and otherwise doesn't find a lot of opportunities to heal itself (It's overall kinda garbage lol), and heaps of things need to go right for Lugia to be effective (No prior damage, no SR).
In practice I've found they're less than reliable- you can't really afford to scout for that fire coverage because that means allowing more turns for MRay to lay down some hurt. More importantly though, is that that pair isn't doing a whole load to MRay (unless you nail it with Counter, but that's far from reliable imo), which means that it'll be free to come back in later and start smashing you again, at which point you come to appreciate that Skarm only checks specific sets and otherwise doesn't find a lot of opportunities to heal itself (It's overall kinda garbage lol), and heaps of things need to go right for Lugia to be effective (No prior damage, no SR).
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Am confirming that MixQuaza+SD Rockceus is loads of fun ^-^
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