Metagame NP: RU Stage 5: Gods and Monsters (HOUNDOOMINITE IS BL2, READ POST #178)

[phantom]

So I finally got around to playing, so I'm just gonna share some opinions:

I think there are three Mega Pokemon that have to go: Altaria, Lopunny, and Gallade.

Altaria is busted because of that retarded ass Dragon Dance set. What makes it annoying is that it has a free third slot to fuck over just about any check. Want to set up in front of Alomomola/Slowking? Use Substitute or Heal Bell. Wanna smash Doublade? There's Fire Blast. etc. It's extremely difficult to revenge kill due to that bulk and typing, and even if you net enough chip damage to put into KO range for a certain priority attack, it has Roost to negate that. The other sets (Defensive, SpA attacker) are no big deal, but the ease in which this thing can set up and sweep, the different ways in which the DD set can be executed (with another coverage atk, full on offensive, or even bulky), and how hard it is to stop once it gets going is disgusting.

Lopunny is broken because there's next to no counter play when facing it vs offense. Every time it comes in it will pretty much get a free kill, and even the most physically bulky Pokemon run the risk of being exploited by SubPass (Weezing, Alomomola) or just flat-out destroyed by a coverage move (Gligar). The only way offense can beat Lopunny is to revenge kill it, and it resists/can withstand most priority attacks anyway. The only priority attack that can KO it is Fletchinder's Acrobatics. Not to mention that the only relevant Choice Scarf user that can outspeed and KO is Moltres, and it has to rely on a 70% accuracy move for that. Overall, this thing is detrimental towards the development of offensive teams in RU and needs to go.

Gallade needs no introduction, I think it's pretty insane and the way it destroys stall/slower teams while still retaining superb effectiveness vs offense makes it too much. It has zero counters and more than enough ways to harass its various checks due to that insane movepool. I'm not even going to get into any other possible viable sets: SD + 3 ATKs (SD/CC/ZHB/KO) on its own is pretty damn broken. Basically, imagine if a better Mega Medicham with a great speed tier, the ability to set up, while still having useable bulk were to land in RU. That's Mega Gallade.

I feel like Mega Sceptile and Mega Beedrill are a lot like Lopunny only less resilient to priority. I think they're both kind of stupid against offense as well, but I suppose they're bearable for now.

As for the Megas that I don't think are bad for the meta:

Glalie and Camerupt are fantastic additions to RU and really breathe a breath of fresh air into the tier. Freeze Dry Mega Glalie in particular is insanely good vs slower teams and a fantastic wallbreaker in general. Mega Camerupt is a top-tier wallbreaker imo, rivaling effectiveness of even LO Moltres. Mega Camerupt is a great check to just about every Electric-type in the tier as well as some Grass-types, which makes it the perfect partner with Alomomola. I don't think Mega Camerupt needs Trick Room to work, and people seriously need to stop with that... Trick Room is literally the "fetch" of RU. Stop trying to make it happen. It won't happen, and you're worse than Gretchen fucking Wieners for trying.

Mega Pidgeot seems kinda underwhelming to me. I feel Choice Scarf Moltres does the exact same thing but w/o taking up a Mega slot (which actually means something now in RU). Still, I do think it's a notable threat because you just can't beat 100% accuracy Hurricanes, and not being 4x weak to Stealth Rock while having access to Roost means it doesn't even require Rapid Spin/Defog support. Good Pokemon on its own, but I feel it is a bit overshadowed atm by the other Megas.

Mega Sharpedo is legitimately scary, having actual usable defenses means it doesn't have to run Aqua Jet to counteract other priority, and the Strong Jaws-boosted Crunch is nothing to scoff at. I don't think Mega Audino is as bad as some people make it out to be, it's bulk is incredible. For reference, it can wall both LO Moltres and Mega Sharpedo at the same time. I haven't tried out Mega Steelix yet, but that's because I think there are better Pokemon to spend the Mega slot on. Once the first wave of bans happen, I can see it getting some use, but for now, there's better options.

As for the newly buffed Pokemon:

I think Pangroro and Dragalge are phenomenal. Dragalage is basically a better Clawitzer (I personally think it outclasses it as a special wallbreaker) due to its significantly higher BP STABs, coverage, and the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes and immunity to the move Toxic itself which makes it a lot harder to play around for defensive teams. Pangroro + Doublade is one of my favorite cores btw. Pangoro can lure in Gligar and smash it with Ice Punch while luring in Fairys and using Parting Shot to give Doublade free setup. It's great.

As for some of the old XY threats:

I think Moltres is just as good as fucking ever now, although the most effective set is by far Choice Scarf because it can revenge kill most Mega Pokemon. Cresselia is still pretty damn good as well, aside from Beedrill it can beat/scare off just about every single new mega and non-mega threat in addition to being as obnoxious as usual with its SubCM set. I'd say Cresselia got even better.

I think ORAS RU is a nice tier, although it does need a bit of work, but I don't think it'll take very long to smooth out the edges.

 

[tutterydiglett]

Seconding Spirit's opinions.

I've been doing a bit of playtesting myself and I find that Lopunny/Gallade is way too overcentralizing (can anything really take a +2 hit from it lol). Doublade, one of the premier physical walls just gets annihilated by the bunny and the only shaky check to both these mons (off the top of my head) is Alomomola + Fletchinder. Speaking of Fletch, this thing is actually really good this meta. It can revenge both aforementioned Megas and can be a nuisance for Altaria with Acro + WoW.

I haven't really experimented with M-Pidgeot, Glalie, or the others that much, so will post thoughts on them l8ter

 

[Ares]

Making this post in RU first cause the discussion in NU is more suspect focused right now:

So a really fun core that I've been messing around with is Togetic and Pidgeot. Pidgeot is a really fun poke to run, its only problem is that its a tad weak, so coupling it with Nasty Pass means that you can easily break through things late game. 100% accuracy Hurricane with a 30% chance to confuse and 100% accurate Heatwave is akin to Moltres's coverage; however, I've seen people trying to play Pidgeot like Moltres and that isn't right. You're supposed to use Pidgeot as a late game cleaner, because right now in RU it sits at a speed tier where it is outrunning everything else bar Mega Lopunny, Sceptile, and Beedrill. Which honestly, all I've really seen has been Lopunny which can be taken care of with another team mate.

Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Obviously Nasty Pass has been a thing for a while now, I'm just coupling it with a new fun poke. Oh and fuck the new scald which is 30% confusion hurricane with 100% accuracy EonX >.>

 

[Swagodile]

Dragalge is really good. It's basically guaranteed a kill.

 

[atomicllamas]

Hi, so the council has pretty much decided what the first round of quick ban suspects will be (I was going to post this earlier but I had a lot of stuff come up o.o). Essentially the plan we have going forward is to do an initial round of quick bans with the council voting whether to ban Mega Gallade, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Altaria or not. After this, we will allow the meta to settle down for a little bit and then have another round of quick bans before we revert to the normal suspect test method of dealing with potentially broken Pokemon (community votes). If the council votes any of Mega Lopunny, Mega Altaria, or Mega Gallade to stay RU, they will most likely (barring extreme metagame shifts) be on the ballot for the next round of quick bans. I am going to list some general reasons why these three Pokemon specifically have found themselves on the ballot for a quick ban, feel free to discuss why or why not these should be banned, or continue with regular meta game discussion in this thread, both are allowed itt.

Galladite

Mega Gallade is undoubtedly the most threatening Pokemon in the current meta game. Its great bulk for an offensive Pokemon, relatively high speed, and extremely good attack stat for a set up sweeper make sweeping extremely easy for Mega Gallade. Its Swords Dance set (consisting of Swords Dance | Close Combat | Knock Off | Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt) is pretty much impossible for any defensively oriented team to deal with, while still being extremely hard for offensive teams to deal with. Checks and counters for Mega Gallade are very limited, Doublade takes over 76% from a +2 Knock Off (has an 18.8% chance to kill after one layer of Spikes), while Shadow Sneak only does around 50% to Mega Gallade. Due to the limited number of offensive responses to Gallade and the apparent lack of Defensive responses to Gallade the council has decided to put Galladite up for a suspect test.

Altarianite

Mega Altaria is an entirely different monster than Mega Gallade, while it is not quite as threatening off the bat, it has amazing defensive- and offensive-typing, as well as some cool tricks that can surprise the opponent and their supposed counter. Both Bulky Dragon Dance and Offensive Dragon Dance are extremely scary for defensive teams to take on, while still having the opportunity to set up on and demolish opposing offensive teams thanks to the set up opportunities granted by its typing. Given a set of Dragon Dance / Return / ? / ? Mega Altaria can essentially choose what counters it. Roost is probably the best choice, as it prevents defensive teams from wearing it down, but in the last slot it has room for Heal Bell / Substitute to protect it from Scald burns / status, or it can run extra coverage moves like Fire Blast or Earthquake that destroy the Steel / Poison-types that would otherwise be able to deal with Mega Altaria. It also has some other sets it can run such as a Special Attacking or support set, but these are generally not as good and (at least imo) not something that qualify it for a suspect test.

Lopunnite

Mega Lopunny has a lot of pros going for it. The main one is that it has a Dual STAB with perfect neutral coverage (barring Shedinja) granting it two free moveslots with which it can do whatever it likes. Unlike the previously two mentioned megas, Mega Lopunny has an excellent match up with opposing offensive teams thanks to its high base speed and powerful STABs. While the set most commonly run on the ladder of [Fake Out | High Jump Kick | Return | filler] really struggles with opposing defensive teams, this can be remedied by using a couple of different options in the 2 moveslots that aren't HJK or Return. Power Up Punch + Ice Punch in the last two slots allows Mega Lopunny to take advantage of slower teams by PUPing a Pokemon that is near death or unable to harm Lopunny in return (or on forced switches) and then being extremely hard to wall. Substitute + Baton Pass is also a good option for taking on defensive teams, as it can gain momentum with its forced switches. Healing Wish is also a pretty cool option, allowing a fellow Pokemon to break the opponent's defensive core and then come back later to sweep even if it has been weakened.

So these are the three mons that are on the first quick ban ballot, as well as the reasons why. Feel free to share your opinions on whether or not you believe they are broken, or carry on with your discussion of the current ORAS metagame. Note the current plan is still to vote on December 2nd.

 

[Lemonade]

Played a bunch with Gallade, agreeing that it's ban-worthy. The most reliable way of dealing with it is probably revenge killing, since it's really easy to take advantage of the things that wall it (a lot of Pokemon can take advantage of Weezing, see the ever-hyped Dragalge for just one example. Gligar and Golbat don't enjoy losing Eviolite, I personally just run Ice Punch because Dragagle also comfortably switches in on Golbat EZ). But for revenge killing the options Mega Bird and Fletchinder are probably the most reliable, which you can also take advantage of (I was using AV Eel since Eel is a cool mon). Basically Mega Gallade just gives you a ton of opportunities all over the place and when you actually use it is super deadly.

I have similar reasoning for Mega Altaria, v sad to see it probably go :(

 

[phantom]

Ice Punch is a complete waste of a moveslot on Mega Gallade imo. All it does is allow you to more quickly beat a Pokemon that can already be dealt with (At +2 Knock Off + Zen Headbutt KOs Gligar) while making Mega Gallade easier to check by allowing Weezing and Aromatisse to beat it. Which is stupid because why lose to those Pokemon when you don't have to?

+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 118-139 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 219-258 (65.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even if Mega Gallade gets minimum damage rolls every time, Gligar still goes down.

In return, Gligar does this: 0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 90-106 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO

So unless that 38% means something or Acrobatics Gligar suddenly catches on, you're better off using Psychic-STAB.

 

[g]

Gonna talk about the two megase i have (ab)used the most:Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade.

Lopunny is just ridicolous. It has very high Speed and good Attack that with perfect coverage within its 2 STAB moves and high base power of them makes it able to 2HKO most of the metagame with incredible ease. The fact that it has this fantastic coverage also lets it be incredibly versatile as moves such as Substitute, Baton Pass, Fake Out to mega evolve, Ice Punch, Power up Punch, Healing Wish, Toxic even are all viably run and can potentially cripple a counter be incredibly clutch late game. Lopunny runs through most offensive teams with incredible ease unless they carry stuff like offensive Tangrowth (i'll make a post about this god) or Qwilfish and pretty much anything else that isnt 2HKOd is a massive loss of momentum. With SR+Spikes everything becomes even worse as Lopunny just kills everything no questions asked rip. It is also a very big threat to balanced teams especially if its paired with something to take advantage of Alomomola and Weezing or if you just run Substitute+Baton Pass to kill everything :]

Gallade is just ridicolous. SD+3 Attacks just destroys anything in the tier and has close to zero defensive answers. Offense relies on very fast Pokemon like the broken ass Lopunny or Choice Scarf users to beat it (or Acrobatics Fletchinder) and OHKOing it isnt even easy with that awesome bulk if it hasn't already used Close Combat. It finds chances to set up on half of the metagame from offensive Pokemon like Hitmonlee (and Drapion) to walls like Alomomola and without Life Orb wearing it down defensive teams are completely demolished. Other sets like Substitute, SD+Drain Punch, Bulk Up, Sub+SD are also great so i see no reason not to ban this.

 

[atomicllamas]

So after playing this metagame right now, I definitely think the best play style (really the only consistent play style) is balance. With Megas like Gallade and Altaria just shitting on stall, and Lopunny and Sceptile making purely offensive teams harder to play with, it seems that balanced teams are really the way to go. Because of this I think Dragalge is really anti-meta atm, as Balance teams give it the opportunity to switch in (unlike offense), while generally being less resilient to Choice Specs Draco Meteors and Sludge Bombs (unlike defensive teams). A really good core that I have found that has put me consistently in the top 10 on the ladder (I would be higher but fuck corruption not counting muh wins ;-;) is SD Drapion and Mega Sceptile. They don't necessarily complement each other on a surface level all that well (though they do have alright synergy), but they are really good at punishing opposing teams regardless of their play style.

Sets

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Drapion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Aqua Tail

So basically, SD Drapion absolutely destroys most defensive teams thanks to its really good dual STAB and natural bulk. Mega Sceptile is a nightmare for offensive teams to face, because you can usually just press Dragon Pulse and 2HKO the opponent, or you can Leaf Storm nuke anything that is threatening your team. I gave my friends Sweep and (makeup) a balanced team with this core and both have been doing pretty well on the ladder with it (sweep peaked #1). So yeah I've found this to be a pretty hard offensive core to deal with, what have you guys been using? Thoughts on how viable certain play styles are in the meta game right now (think I'm wrong about stall / offense not being as viable :o)?

Spirit definitely agree that ZHB is almost always better than Ice Punch on Gallade, but does it really matter what is in Gallade's 4th moveslot, it just wins anyways ;o.

 

[Holiday]

Uhm I'm on mobile so I'll post sets when I can but I've found that SD Feraligatr + Mega Camerupt are awesome. It's kinda like atomicllamas's core in the fact you have a bulky SD user and powerful SpAttacker (idk if not a real term fwm) that really helps dismantle cores. People are really serious about TR rupt, and it's strong as fuck without it. Mega Camerupt also takes on most all of the Electric and Grass types that Gatr fears. I like using underused Pokemkn for one, but these two compliment each other so well, and it's just a really offensive core that really threatens stall.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Just wanna say how useful this bloke is right now. While registeel has been the bulky steel type of choice ever since yanmega became a threat, I'd argue that zong has a lot of quality which probably mean that it's more useful and probably better than the steel golem right now. The main reason is that zong checks new threats from oras far better. With dragalge, sceptile, slurpuff, altaria and glalie all becoming threats which may actually stay in the tier, bronzong's psychic typing and levitate ability allow it to absorb any STAB move as well as the coverage moves (focus blast, drain punch, earthquake). The second reason relates purely to dugtrio. With a ground immunity, zong is unaffected by arena trap and therefore doesn't fall victim to any u-turn+trapper cores which can be detrimental to registeel.
Consider it next time you build :]

 

[Metal Sonic]

Thats why I have this friend here:

to help me get free Bronzong kills,

THEN let Mega Altaria / Slurpuff / Dragalge / Something that hates Bronzong or Steel-types sweep.



PS: Are there any reliable ways in the current meta to stop Slurpuff now, besides Fake Out Ambipom? Everyone is so focused on beating Mega Altaria, Gallade, and Lopunny, that they forgot about the one-shot setup monster that can also OHKO entire teams.

 

[Molk]

Now that llamas posted i might as well show some of my thoughts on the megas brought up imo :o.

Yeah, Gallade is absolutely insane imo, anyone who ever played BW RU knows just how threatening SD Gallade could be, and Mega Gallade is pretty much a direct upgrade from it. Mega Gallade hits about as hard as Life Orb Gallade does, but unlike LO Gallade, it doesn't take any recoil damage from attacking, has actually respectable physical bulk, which helps it set up more easily and take priority moves a bit better, and it has more than enough Speed to threaten offensive teams and avoid being revenge killed as easily as its regular counterpart. (it's just a little bit faster than Durant and Cobalion/Virizion). It has very, very few safe switch ins and reliable defensive answers, and the Pokemon that can actually manage to take a boosted hit from it are either worn down very, very easily, get crippled by Knock Off because of reliance on Eviolite (looking at you, Doublade), or both. This is pretty much a no brainer imo.

Altaria is p. insane too. Dragon Dance sets are very threatening and the combination of Altaria's good bulk and amazing defensive typing makes setting up even multiple Dragon Dances to sweep quite easy regardless of what playstyle you're playing against. This same bulk and typing also makes Altaria quite hard to revenge kill once it gets going, as it can take hits from Scarfmons quite easily and it has more than enough bulk to take most priority with ease (it even resists Sucker Punch, Mach Punch, and Aqua Jet, making this even easier). Yes, Altaria does have a few checks, but not just is it capable of working around them with moves such as Earthquake (Poison-types and shit like Registeel), Fire Blast (Sword, Escavalier) and Substitute/Heal Bell (anything that relies on status), but Pokemon such as Doublade, Escavalier, Bronzong, and Weezing are quite easy to wear down, and because Altaria hits decently hard even unboosted and has quite a bit of survivability between its bulk/typing and Roost, a well played one can often simply outlast these obstacles and freely sweep later on from what i've seen. Of course, Altaria can run some other sets such as a special attacking set and a defensive one as atomicllamas mentioned, but i fully believe that these sets pale in comparison to DD.

From the games i've played i've seen a grand total of 3, poorly used, Lopunny, so i'll hold out judgement for now. I can definitely see the arguments behind banning it though.

 

[aVocado]

PS: Are there any reliable ways in the current meta to stop Slurpuff now, besides Fake Out Ambipom? Everyone is so focused on beating Mega Altaria, Gallade, and Lopunny, that they forgot about the one-shot setup monster that can also OHKO entire teams.

Golbat. Golbat is also really nice in this meta because not only can it counter Slurpuff, but it can also kinda counter Altaria, Beedrill, Lopunny, Sceptile, and even Pokemon like Pangoro even though Knock Off will hurt.

 

[atomicllamas]

The best counter to Belly Drum Slurpuff in the current meta-game is the same as it was before ORAS was released, Doublade is not only resistant to Play Rough, but is immune to both Return and Drain Punch. Weezing is a pretty good response, it can tank any hit and has an extremely good chance to KO a 75% Slurpuff in return with Sludge Bomb. Bronzong is also an okay response to Slurpuff, 252/0 Bronzong takes 80% from Drain Punch and has a 56.3% chance to OHKO 252 Speed unburden Slurpuff with 0 attack investment but that's pretty dicey to me (takes 68 Atk EVs to guarantee the KO which idk if it is worth it). Honestly the best way to deal with Slurpuff is to prevent it from setting up, as it is extremely deadly once it has set up, but it really struggles to find the opportunity to against offensively oriented teams. Definitely something that needs to be accounted for in team building rn tho o.o

 

[The Leprechaun]

Thats why I have this friend here:

to help me get free Bronzong kills,

THEN let Mega Altaria / Slurpuff / Dragalge / Something that hates Bronzong or Steel-types sweep.



PS: Are there any reliable ways in the current meta to stop Slurpuff now, besides Fake Out Ambipom? Everyone is so focused on beating Mega Altaria, Gallade, and Lopunny, that they forgot about the one-shot setup monster that can also OHKO entire teams.

How is bronzong a free magneton kill? The best specsmag can get on zong is a 3hko and zong ohkos with eq. So unless you're running magnet rise, zong will pretty much always win :/

 

[Metal Sonic]

Thunderbolt deals more damage than hp fire. Magnet runs magnet rise so that it can kill escavalier, bronzong with 100% certainty

 

[g]

Tangrowth @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Ancient Power

This Pokemon really gained nothing with the transition from ORAS to XY but in my opinion it is probably one of the best things that offensive teams have to check the broken ass Mega Lopunny and to a lesser extent Gallade. Anybody who knows me knows how much i hate defensive Tangrowth because of its generic defensive typing and it being completely outclassed by Amoonguss in that regard but offensive sets are what makes Tangrowth really whine. Outside of pivoting in with ease against common pokes like Rhyperior and Gligar to fire off ridicolous Leaf Storms (that is why i like Specs) it is also a fantastic lure for stuff like Weezing and Doublade that a lot of the time try to switch in on this only to get crippled opening the way for Mega Altaria. Predicting with this is also quite easy as the opponent will likely just switch into their solid "counters" if they have one like Escavalier or Moltres just to get bopped :]

Also <3

Just wanna say how useful this bloke is right now. While registeel has been the bulky steel type of choice ever since yanmega became a threat, I'd argue that zong has a lot of quality which probably mean that it's more useful and probably better than the steel golem right now. The main reason is that zong checks new threats from oras far better. With dragalge, sceptile, slurpuff, altaria and glalie all becoming threats which may actually stay in the tier, bronzong's psychic typing and levitate ability allow it to absorb any STAB move as well as the coverage moves (focus blast, drain punch, earthquake). The second reason relates purely to dugtrio. With a ground immunity, zong is unaffected by arena trap and therefore doesn't fall victim to any u-turn+trapper cores which can be detrimental to registeel.
Consider it next time you build :]

This mon.

 

[aVocado]

Everyone keeps talking about how threatening Slurpuff, Lopunny, Sceptile, Pangoro, Altaria etc. are and forget about this Pokemon that can pretty much check all of them:

Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic
- Brave Bird

Golbat is phenomenal at this moment, and usually is my choice of Defogger instead of Gligar right now in this state of the meta, simply because of how many new threats that it can handle really well. The traditional DD Altaria (DD/Return/EQ/Roost|Fire Blast) can't touch it while it can Toxic and either Roost stall or Brave Bird. It can check Sceptile quite well even if it takes a bit from Dragon Pulse, with its x4 resistance to Leaf Storm. The physical variants can hurt with Outrage at +2, but they still die. Lopunny's Ice Punch doesn't really do a lot. Against Slurpuff it can lose if it switches into Belly Drum, because two Returns 2HKO and you're forced to either Toxic/Brave Bird or Roost. Roosting will eventually kill it and Toxic/Brave Bird would wear Slurpuff down for another mon to pick it off with priority or something (I have Fletchinder). I admit it's not the best of checks but its something. The EV speeds make it outspeed max speed Exploud.

Speaking about Fletchinder, it's also another phenomenal Pokemon in today's metagame, and a great answer for offense to stuff like Lopunny, Sceptile, etc.

 

[Holiday]

Just wanna say how useful this bloke is right now. While registeel has been the bulky steel type of choice ever since yanmega became a threat, I'd argue that zong has a lot of quality which probably mean that it's more useful and probably better than the steel golem right now. The main reason is that zong checks new threats from oras far better. With dragalge, sceptile, slurpuff and glalie all becoming threats which may actually stay in the tier, bronzong's psychic typing and levitate ability allow it to absorb any STAB move as well as the coverage moves (focus blast, drain punch, earthquake). The second reason relates purely to dugtrio. With a ground immunity, zong is unaffected by arena trap and therefore doesn't fall victim to any u-turn+trapper cores which can be detrimental to registeel.
Consider it next time you build :]

Not to mention all the old threats it checks, including Fletch (though burn can suck) Mega Snow, Braviary, and others.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Not to mention all the old threats it checks, including Fletch (though burn can suck) Mega Snow, Braviary, and others.

It flat out loses to Sub BU Braviary tho :<

 

[EonX]

Following Molk's incentive, I'll go ahead and give my thoughts on the Megas that have been brought up for a potential quick ban.

Mega Gallade: This thing is an absolute monster. It is VERY difficult to switch into and destroys stall teams almost singlehandedly with Swords Dance. The biggest issue with Mega Gallade is that it can run either Close Combat or Drain Punch depending on the type of team you need it to perform better against (not that it's poor against the other playstyle) Close Combat is generally the better option due to its overwhelming power and ability to destroy bulkier teams, but Drain Punch has merit to keep Gallade in good health vs. offensive teams since it actually has some (physical) bulk to speak of now. Thankfully, Gallade has the same decent special bulk it has always had, so it can come in rather easily on most special attackers that lack a way of hitting it for super effective damage, thus giving Gallade extra opportunities to Mega Evolve. While Mega Gallade can be held in check by the likes of Fletchinder, Mega Pidgeot (needs to be Mega Evolved or it'll get outsped) and Choice Scarf Moltres (70% accurate move is far from reliable tho) it is very difficult to find faster Pokemon that can instantly KO Mega Gallade thanks to the sharp increase in Speed and physical Defense, which are the two stats that really old regular Gallade back from doing many things.

Mega Lopunny: So I've been able to play around with Mega Lopunny a little bit and it's just stupid. It bones offensive teams and it isn't exactly helpless against fatter teams either. It literally only requires Return / Frustration and High Jump Kick to deal reliable damage. From there you can pick from any of SubPass, Fake Out, Healing Wish, Ice Punch, or Toxic. Toxic seems really strange, but considering the fact that two of the most common switch-ins to Mega Lopunny are Gligar and Cresselia, this can really devastate opposing teams. It's really versatile in what it can do despite only having a single EV spread and core set because all it needs are High Jump Kick and Return / Frustration to be successful.

Mega Altaria: This is the only Mega I haven't really played with much at all, and while I can see why people would want it gone, I'll have to hold off my own judgment on it for now.

One threat I do want to talk about though is Pangoro. We've known for a while that it was getting a serious upgrade with the elemental punches, Knock Off, and Drain Punch. However, there's really only one move it needed; Knock Off. Pangoro's Knock Off is seriously the most spammable move in the entire tier right now. To give you an idea of how strong it is, Pangoro's CB Knock Off does ~50% to Weezing... to fucking Weezing! Yeah, crazy stuff.

Pangoro @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm / Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Parting Shot

While this is the moveset, you'll just find yourself clicking Knock Off about 80% of the time just due to how strong and spammable it is. Your Fighting STAB of choice is dependent on whether you want more damage or if you plan on staying in for a turn or two afterward. Ice Punch bashes Gligar, but you can replace it with Poison Jab if you have issues with Aromatisse. Regardless, both can catch a Mega Altaria that's wanting to come in too quickly on a STAB move. Parting Shot is nice to give a setup sweeper a chance to setup. Stuff like Mega Gallade, Slurpuff, and Mega Altaria can really take advantage of this to ravage the opposing team. Note that you can use Life Orb with Poison Jab over Parting Shot to take better advantage of Pangoro's coverage, but again, you're just using Knock Off 80% of the time anyway.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Pangoro gets Gunk Shot which is pretty much a direct upgrade over Poison Jab. I would use it over Ice Punch because Gligar and Golbat don't appreciate Knock Off in the long run. Still, Pangoro is a fantastic mon and I wouldn't be surprised to see it becoming the top Fighting type after Gallade and Lopunny leave.

 

[phantom]

Does that degenerate dustbunny, Mega Altaria, get on your nerves? Just can't stand that dastardly Mega Gallade? Is that slutty Lopunny trouncing all over your team? Well, if you have any of these problems, then I have the suggestion just for you!! Jokes aside, we all know how broken Mega Lopunny, Gallade, and Altaria are by now, so if you guys are looking for a universal check to all of them until their inevitable bans kick in, then look no further as I present you with this fantastic dog:

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell​

Checking the big three Megas makes Granbull pretty anti-meta. With Thunder Wave, Granbull is guaranteed to at least cripple these Pokemon if they cannot be KOed, and then it can smash them with a Play Rough. In addition to beat those three Mega Pokemon, Granbull is also a fantastic Pangoro check. Unlike other walls, Granbull isn't as passive and can at least dissuade the likes of Dragalge, Mega Camerupt, and Magneton from switching in thanks to Earthquake. I recommend pairing this with a Wish Passer like Audino or Alomomola so that it can consistently keep these threats in line; otherwise, feel free to give it a whirl.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Does that degenerate dustbunny, Mega Altaria, get on your nerves? Just can't stand that dastardly Mega Gallade? Is that slutty Lopunny trouncing all over your team? Well, if you have any of these problems, then I have the suggestion just for you!! Jokes aside, we all know how broken Mega Lopunny, Gallade, and Altaria are by now, so if you guys are looking for a universal check to all of them until their inevitable bans kick in, then look no further as I present you with this fantastic dog:

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Heal Bell​

Checking the big three Megas makes Granbull pretty anti-meta. With Thunder Wave, Granbull is guaranteed to at least cripple these Pokemon if they cannot be KOed, and then it can smash them with a Play Rough. In addition to beat those three Mega Pokemon, Granbull is also a fantastic Pangoro check. Unlike other walls, Granbull isn't as passive and can at least dissuade the likes of Dragalge, Mega Camerupt, and Magneton from switching in thanks to Earthquake. I recommend pairing this with a Wish Passer like Audino or Alomomola so that it can consistently keep these threats in line; otherwise, feel free to give it a whirl.

252+ SpA Pixilate Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Granbull: 282-333 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

RIP ;-;