np: UU Stage 1 - Changes

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I'm awful at building offensive teams in general, but I've been messing around with Glalie and it's really valuable asset for them against stall. I've been running a strange set of Double-Edge/FreezeDry/SuperFang/Earthquake with full spattk investment and it's ridiculously difficult to switch into. You basically spam super fang and then use the appropriate move to 2hko whatever is hit by it- after a super fang suicune is ko'd by freeze dry, blissey by double edge, umbreon by double edge, florges by double edge, alomomola by freeze dry, hippo by freeze dry, chesnaught to freeze dry, tentacruel to freeze dry... even arcanine struggles to take an earthquake after rocks and a layer of spikes.

Stuff like Aggron and other bulky steels can stomach an earthquake, but steels tend to be some of the more easily worn down mons in the tier and thus don't appreciate super fang at all. Definitely a good mon imo :o
 
Thank Cheezus. That thing was a massive bitch. I never ran into the Spike stackers, it either ran SD with a Life Orb and swept you or SDPass and something else swept you.

EDIT: Speak of the devil, just got bopped by one. This team needs more priority.
 
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Dragalge
Why is no one talking about this lord?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 418-492 (104.2 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 438-516 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 248-294 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 498-586 (94.1 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It obviously isn't easy to slap on a team or use, but I can definately see it being a very effctive special wall breaker.
 
View attachment 30786Dragalge
Why is no one talking about this lord?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 418-492 (104.2 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 438-516 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 248-294 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 498-586 (94.1 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It obviously isn't easy to slap on a team or use, but I can definately see it being a very effctive special wall breaker.
It can actually go mixed very easily to beat blissey with gunk shot. Very effective at the moment especially with the hyped up Bronzong to handle most of the new threats
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
While I know we're all hyped about ORAS megas and all that, what's closest to dropping to UU in the most recent batch of stats?
Probably Mandibuzz and Sylveon.
Mamoswine was below the 3% in the last XY OU stats but ORAS prevented him to drop to BL
 
Also, Raikou/Azelf/Rachi all have a strong chance of going up into OU.

Can't wait for Sylveon though.
Im curious how Mega Altaria and Beedrill will affect Sylveon if it doea drop. Mega Altaria can do the whole Fairy Pixilate hyper Voice thing, but has access to Fire Blast and Earthquake to bypass any fairy resists. Mega beedrill is pretty anti meta at the moment imo with evetybody going altaria crazy. Steel and Poison are pretty plentiful in UU so itll he interesting yo see what happens...
 
Well, in a few days we'll see I guess... Also, Azelf/Kou? Why? I mean Rachi I kinda get, but I'm confused about Azelf/Raikou and why they might move up (and yes I know it's by usage not by "rank", but what is their niche there?)
 
Losing Raikou and Rachi will really suck. They are a great way to check flying types. With this, I really see people complaining about Staraptor, even though I think it's one of the best mons right now, I don't feel it broken.

Volc, do you guys think it'll get the boot?
 

Meru

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Well, in a few days we'll see I guess... Also, Azelf/Kou? Why? I mean Rachi I kinda get, but I'm confused about Azelf/Raikou and why they might move up (and yes I know it's by usage not by "rank", but what is their niche there?)
Raikou has actually been pretty effective in OU both as a Talonflame/Mega Pinsir "birdspam" check while simultaneously making use of AV to check Greninja, which is bar none the biggest threat in OU right now. It also checks other things like Thundurus-I and Keldeo thanks to that solid 115 Spe stat. Mega Manectric does give it competition, but Raikou doesn't take up the Mega slot and has the movepool to offer some differentiation. I wouldn't say either one has a better movepool, since Flamethrower/Overheat is nice for Ferrothorn and Scizor while Shadow Ball/Signal Beam/Extrasensory gets key OHKOs/2HKOs on quite a few targets that Tbolt/HP Ice falls short of.

Azelf has always been somewhat decent in OU as a Hyper Offensive lead but most of its usage is coming from the GeoPass team that's been making its way around OU. Even Cottonee is over 1% usage, so when you combine Azelf's commonish usage with that one team, it's allowed it to break into OU range. Makes you glad the UU council banned Smeargle huh?

Jirachi of course is for checking Mega Gard and the Latis, and overall, is something that probably would've gone OU from the start of the generation if it wasn't somewhat outclassed as a Steel-type by Mega Mawile and Aegislash, especially since the latter completely slaughtered its new Ghost weakness.

Mandibuzz has been heavily declining in usage since the Aegislash ban, and it doesn't really help how good Mega Gardevoir has become recently whch also affects Sylveon, as it faces heavy competition from Mega Gardevoir. Sylveon has also been losing its "shiny new toy" usage that resulted from it being Gamefreak's poster child for introducing the new Fairy-type, as it's never really been *that* good in OU.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions :toast:

EDIT: Also keep in mind that a lot of these tier shifts might not go through, as November's stats are going to have over 80% of the weight in the tiering decisions, and ORAS changes up a lot of these guys' viabilities. It does also mean that some other things might be dropping that we have no clue about, so as of right now, the metagame is completely susceptible to a complete warp once the December stats come out. For all we know, some of the more staple OU choices could completely fall out of favor with these shifts, so all we can do at this point is wait and see.
 

Meru

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Not intending to spam but I wanted to make a separate post to branch off of my previous one. I've actually talked to some people and I've done the math. Since November is the third month in the tiering usage stats, it carries 5/6 of the weight of the stats. ORAS came out on the 20th which that means that ORAS represents ~1/3 of the month.

5/6 * 1/3 = 5/18

Couple that with the fact that the server was down for a couple of days of November, and that people are probably going to play more battles during the ORAS part of the month vs. the non-ORAS part of the month, we're probably looking at an estimate of ORAS representing ~9/18 so at least half of the tiering usage stats. Altogether, we could really have no idea what's dropping.
 

Sam

i say it's all just wind in sails
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Not intending to spam but I wanted to make a separate post to branch off of my previous one. I've actually talked to some people and I've done the math. Since November is the third month in the tiering usage stats, it carries 5/6 of the weight of the stats. ORAS came out on the 20th which that means that ORAS represents ~1/3 of the month.

5/6 * 1/3 = 5/18

Couple that with the fact that the server was down for a couple of days of November, and that people are probably going to play more battles during the ORAS part of the month vs. the non-ORAS part of the month, we're probably looking at an estimate of ORAS representing ~9/18 so at least half of the tiering usage stats. Altogether, we could really have no idea what's dropping.
[17:58:26] <Meru> 1/3 of 5/6
[17:58:33] <Meru> is 5/9 of the usage

[17:59:10] <namehtmas> no thats 5/18

But yeah, we're gonna have another shakeup pretty soon since there's a lot of things that theoretically could drop
 
View attachment 30786Dragalge
Why is no one talking about this lord?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 418-492 (104.2 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 438-516 (120.3 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 340-400 (84.1 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 248-294 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 498-586 (94.1 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It obviously isn't easy to slap on a team or use, but I can definately see it being a very effctive special wall breaker.
The one I'm going to try is gonna be offensive tspiker with tspikes/draco/sludge/focus blast. Being slow and weak to dragon/ground/ice is nasty, but it should find some good matchups to come in on (say florges or a bulky water, it should be able to eat an ice beam from a bulky water) and start spamming brutal nukes. Bronzong can switch in safely but that gets setup on.

In general I find tspikes to be matchup reliant. Sometimes you just auto-win when you set them up. Sometimes there's like 1 thing on the other team that is even affected by it. However, I found Dragalgae to be pretty functional with just 3 attacks so even in matchups where tspikes is going to be useless, Dragalgae should still be very useful
 
Built a team with Specs Dragalge, and I've got to say it really exceeded my expectations. Since this probably isn't the place, I'm gonna go ahead and post/talk about the set I used elsewhere in the subforum, but yeah Dragalge really did some work. It's capable of 2HKOing Scarf Jirachi with Draco Meteor so yeah the power behind this thing is pretty incredible, and its typing is great too. Mixed Dragalge seems bad though cause it wants to speed creep Blissey, invest in Attack, and hold a Life Orb so your bulk is severely compromised, and the bulk is part of what makes Dragalge so good.

I mentioned this in the other thread but I've noticed that Haxorus has completely dropped off the face of the earth. I'm sure part of this is due to the current retests, namely Togekiss and Salamence, but I think even if both of these were to be banned, Haxorus would have a really tough time finding a spot on a team. Its DD set is (arguably) inferior to Zygarde's thanks to Zygarde's much better bulk and important Electric immunity, an SD 3 attacks set would have a lot of trouble against offense, and a double dancing set would really never be able to set up. Honestly Band Haxorus with like Sticky Web or Tailwind support might be worth looking into but that's about it. I'll be interested to see its usage at the end of this month and I'm expecting it to be really low.

Another thing I've seen fall out of favor heavily is Mega Ampharos. ORAS has not been kind to it, given that things like Mega Altaria, Diancie, and Sceptile completely destroy it/set up on it, along with the fact that things like Whimsicott and Ice Beam Suicune that have risen to popularity. Also it faces extremely heavy competition for the Mega slot: an offensive set is just too slow and even frail to be great, its physically defensive set can't really stand up to the immense pressure that things like Mega Lopunny and Mega Beedrill put on it, and now Camerupt is the go-to Mega for Trick Room. The tier shifts don't look like they'll favor Mega Ampharos either if Jirachi and Raikou rise, and Sylveon drops.

Speaking of the tier shifts I'm really looking forward to them. If Jirachi does end up going to OU then that will have an enormous effect on the metagame. I really hope Sylveon ends up dropping though, a strong offensive Fairy that doesn't take up your Mega slot is pretty huge. I guess Florges is actually pretty decent offensively but nothing compared to Sylveon.

As for the things that are being tested, Togekiss, Salamence, and Volcarona are all pretty retarded. I haven't run into Klefki too much but it doesn't seem like that big of a problem honestly, and it's a nice check to a lot of threatening things. I'm not sure how I feel about Staraptor, on one hand its ability to get a kill 90% of the time when it's in hasn't changed, but it's also come back to a generally faster tier. I think it's ridiculous enough for balance and more defensive teams to send it away, though.
 
Longest post I've ever made incoming, dear God just let me get some sleep already.

I'm just gonna throw this guy out there because we haven't gotten a lot of talk about him aside from a quick mention in Dudeman130498's post and maybe somewhere else that I feel like I might have forgotten:


Serge Ibaka (Camerupt) (M) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk/ 0 Spe(HP Ice IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 1 Spe)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Ancient Power / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Ice / Explosion​

I've been playing around with some Trick Room teams lately and the playstyle feels pretty anti-meta right now with all of the new speed we've got running around in the tier thanks to the new megas and BL drops. Trick Room teams have grown some new legs and with Mega-Rupt coming in who has what feels to me like better coverage and more power than Mega-Amphy, with Mega-Rupt doing some serious damage when paired with Dudeman's Mixed TR Diancie. If Mega-Rupt manages to get 3 turns of Trick Room you're blowing holes apart in your opponents team unless they out predict you seriously hard, which when they have the pokes to even try they'll go for it 9/10 times which makes it fairly easy to predict from my experience. Sheer Force+Fire Blast, Earth Power, and Flash Cannon is pretty killer coverage, and once your opponent has been worn out by whatever else you've got on your TR team he can clean up whats left fairly easily, even without Trick Room sometimes. A lot of the time sending out TR Mega-Rupt early has been a great way to lay down some serious hurt on bulkier teams to make other TR sweeper's jobs easier later in the game.

The thing is that Mega-Rupt's biggest problem tends to be his fourth moveslot, Mega-Rupt doesn't have a great specially attacking movepool(what Mega-Rupt would do to have nido-esque coverage), and there's not much else you can put there aside from Ancient Power to get any extra coverage. Honestly the only two pokes that I've used Ancient Power on where it would do more damage than a neutral Fire Blast are Volcarona and Rotom-Heat, the former of which is really cool to hit while the latter can't really do anything to you besides stare aggressively, and even a mixed offensive set running Rock Slide similar to Dudeman's mixed TR Diancie has the same limitations. I'm pretty heated that Hidden Power Fairy isn't even a thing, because it would allow Mega-Rupt to OHKO Hydreigon who otherwise is a seriously annoying check to TR Mega-Rupt since he can be a little hard to wear down enough to KO with Flash Cannon as standard Hydrei sets take 45 - 53.3% and can then beat the piss out of Mega-Rupt with Draco Meteor. HP Ice is the best move to run from my experience so you can do 60 - 70% to Specially Defensive Gligar and guarantee a 2HKO on Hydreigon, so that's a good option. Some people have suggested Will-o-Wisp and Yawn to me, but I can't stand either of those options since I feel they're too passive to put on TR teams that rely on more active offensive presence.

I've also used a set where I've switched the 252 in HP to Attack, added back the 31 Attack IV's, and run Explosion to help clear the way for other TR sweepers that I'd recommend if that's more your thing, and it can be very useful if its the last turn of Trick Room and you need to make room for a TR setter, but personally the set just doesn't feel right to me. Honestly I'm open to suggestions for the fourth moveslot here, because I think this guy does some serious work on TR teams atm and is just a little short of fantastic because of this.

Anyway, I just wanna start some conversation on this guy because I think he's a pretty damn good mega who deserves more love than he's gotten in this thread.
This is where I got the Hidden Power type calculator to figure out the HP Ice IV's with the lowest speed if you're interested in that.
http://www.psypokes.com/dex/hp.php
 
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Thanks Brock Obama Mega Rupt is very interesting to say the least. I didn't even realize that this thing got Flash Cannon. But, I'm leaning more towards Explosion to be honest. It's attack got boosted up to 120 with Mega Evo, which makes Explosion a very viable option. If you add in hazards, it can do some serious damage to most special walls.

4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 215-254 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 381-449 (53.3 - 62.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Audino: 172-203 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

That bulk on Audino though lol

Anything that's not popped by Explosion (Steel, Rock and Ghosts) are maimed by your coverage moves (Fire Blast/Earth Power/Flash Cannon).
 
Thanks Brock Obama Mega Rupt is very interesting to say the least. I didn't even realize that this thing got Flash Cannon. But, I'm leaning more towards Explosion to be honest. It's attack got boosted up to 120 with Mega Evo, which makes Explosion a very viable option. If you add in hazards, it can do some serious damage to most special walls.

4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 215-254 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 381-449 (53.3 - 62.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Camerupt Explosion vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Audino: 172-203 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

That bulk on Audino though lol

Anything that's not popped by Explosion (Steel, Rock and Ghosts) are maimed by your coverage moves (Fire Blast/Earth Power/Flash Cannon).
Yeah after playing around with the Explosion set some more I have to say its probably the best option. Being able to lay some serious hurt on pokes like Florges and Blissey can be pretty clutch when up against defensive teams and being able to clear a path and bring in a TR setter at the same time can make the difference against more offensive teams. Explosion is definitely the road to go down as Gligar is still getting 2HKO'd by Fire Blast making HP Ice pretty irrelevant and you get basically no extra coverage when running Ancient Power or Rock Slide.

On the topic of TR teams does anyone have recommendations for setters that don't get boinked by dark types? I've been running Diancie and she's putting in work, but aside from Aromatisse(who is too passive for my taste) there hasn't been anything else that sticks out to me.
 

Hogg

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Pory2 is a great setter, although Knock Off is a pain. Whimsicott works as well, since Prankster means its high Speed isn't a liability once TR is up. You can also use priority Memento or its "slow" U-turn post TR to bring in your sweeper.
 
A Colbur Berry can be your best friend. It's better than, say, Leftovers that you'd put on Slowking or something because Trick Room is very fast paced and your Pokemon generally won't be sticking around for too long. Being able to survive that one Dark Pulse and get off a Trick Room can and will win you games.
 
So I finally developed a new insta-Leo dual screens HO team that involves combusken. Got me up to top 100 in less than 40 mins of pandering. One thing I learned from the team is that double dance mega diancie is a PAIN for almost every team out there and that klefki is by far one of the best dual screeners in the meta right now. He makes HO gamebreaking esp in tandem with a shitton of setup sweepers. I'm in favor of banning klefki
 
So I finally developed a new insta-Leo dual screens HO team that involves combusken. Got me up to top 100 in less than 40 mins of pandering. One thing I learned from the team is that double dance mega diancie is a PAIN for almost every team out there and that klefki is by far one of the best dual screeners in the meta right now. He makes HO gamebreaking esp in tandem with a shitton of setup sweepers. I'm in favor of banning klefki
Same thing I chimed in earlier I didn't expect Klefki to be such an issue and I don't believe he was back then. However, with the new MEVOs and several new set up sweepers since he was banned, some of which create solid Fairy+Steel+Dragon cores. All of which appreciate the Spikes + Screens, and clutch TW, his support suddenly becomes invaluable as there aren't much options in dealing with him and his defensive typing augmented with prankster (so that he can invest in bulk). He can even at times set up against SE attacks aimed at him thanks to screens, I am just lucky I use Xatu which deals with Klefki fairy well and cripples the switch in.
 
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