Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

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Okay so I saw sugarhigh nomming this earlier in the XY thread, and it seemed like he was ignored, so I'd like to bring it back up again.

I think Mega Houndoom should be moved up to B rank. At first, I didn't really see any reason to run Mega Doom. It's fairly weak because it can't hold a boosting item, and its STAB moves are resisted by common Pokemon such as Greninja, Azumarill, and Tyranitar. On top of that, its got a pretty useless ability unless you're balzy enough to use it on a sun team or something. However, I started testing it a few days ago because I thought it had some potential I just wasn't seeing. Lone behold, I was surprised to see how it excelled quite well in most of my battles and how a lot of offensive teams can have trouble dealing with it. Its typing is actually really cool defensively and offensively, as it is able to stop Mew cold, one of the best support Pokemon in OU, and use it as set up fodder, as well as Mega Sableye, who can't really touch Mega Doom at all. On top of that, its ability Flash Fire, before Mega evolving is really useful, as it can set up on defensive Heatran with Taunt.

And that's the cool thing about Mega Doom. It has a few cool options which makes its last moveslot rather unpredictable and easy to tweak depending on your team. For example, the team I'm using in particular struggles a bit against defensive cores that carry Heatran. So to fix this, I used Taunt in the last moveslot so I can use it to grab a free NP boost and potentially sweep. Taunt is also useful against Chansey, because if you manage to pressure Chansey enough so that it becomes weakened, you might be able to actually bust through Chansey with Mega Doom, because once its Taunted it's forced to Seismic Toss you, so you can just continually do this until it's worn down to a point later in the match where you can set up on it and beat it. Taunt is also useful for preventing shit like CM Clefable and Mega Sableye from setting up on you, while you can return the favor. It also has other cool useful moves at its disposal, particularly Will-O-Wisp which lets you burn shit on the switch, such as Azumarill, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, Mega Gyarados. Both moves are equally viable, and are all dependent on what your team needs and what your weaknesses are. If you find yourself struggling against defensive cores, then Taunt is preferred. However, Wisp lets you lure in its common switch-ins so that they're heavily crippled and you can potentially use them as set up fodder later on in the match for something else. There's other cool options such as Destiny Bond, which lets you suicide on Pokemon that you can't OHKO and eliminate them for the rest of the match, which can prove to be very useful.

All in all, Mega Doom is a heavily underrated Mega evolution that is greatly undermined for its lack of amazing coverage as well as a pretty mediocre ability, however it checks a lot of top tier threats in the current meta, such as the Lati twins, Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Mew, Heatran, Mega Venu, Mega Scizor, Gengar, Mega Metagross, and Mega Sableye. It can also disrupt a few common defensive Pokemon that give offensive teams trouble, and despite its somewhat subpar SpA stat, it can actually sweep quite frequently when given the right support. I just think Mega Doom fits a lot better with the B ranked Pokemon than many of the VERY niche Pokemon found in B- rank. It's better than most of them.

Also please refrain from commenting on Mega Doom if you've never used it before. Many of the arguments I see against it in the other thread clearly had no clue what specific niches and uses Mega Doom has, and simply stated all the common checks and counters it had while ignoring everything else.
I had thought I saw others agree as well but I wouldn't mind chiming in too.

Personally I always have found his Destiny Bond set to be one of the more fun sets to abuse with him as he hits plenty hard as is and to have Guy like him making guys scared to attack him always is a pleasure to see. He has variation on a few sets and really its just fun seeing him getting some recognition. He may be held back some common Mons (even if it can cripple it or take of out with separate moves like wisp and bond) yet it is at least more viable than some of the Mons currently ranked above it (or at least worthy of B like suggested).
 
With a timid nature Mega Alakazam outspeeds every unboosted pokemon in the game except for Deoxys-S and Mega Aero (speed tie), and even with a speed boosting nature and not a special attack boosting nature it reaches a higher special attack than uber powerhouses like modest Palkia and modest Mewtwo (Palkia hits 438, Mewtwo hits 447, Zam hits 449). A pokemon that can afford to run a +speed nature and still reach a higher special attack than Mewtwo is not even remotely underwhelming.
The only time I could see Mega Alakazam's power being called underwhelming would be as a wallbreaker (that's just compared to things like Gard, because make no mistake Zam hits hard), but that's not its job. Mega Zam is a very potent revenge killer and sweeper and in that regard it's a monster.
Yeah I suppose I was kinda thinking in terms of wallbreaking looking back. That's fair.
 

Karxrida

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The only real blow to Mega Alakazam from the ORAS transition is being forced to run Timid over Modest, but it's not enough to warrant a drop since it deals with a lot of the new Megas anyway.
 
Not saying this is bad at all, actually i kinda like the thought of MHoundoom being B with his semi unique and good typing, his speed tier and an ability that is useless at first but can easily be used on sun teams. Just wanted to point out Aragorn the King also nommed MHoundoom also, if you wanted to check that out gary.
Im very confused by your post. When a poke is nominated to move, it is the result of the meta evolving. Moving MHoundoom up based on good typing and his speed tier doesn't make sense bc neither have changed since XY OU lol. Its typing/speed tier may have become more useful thanks to new threats in ORAS such as MSableye, but it doesn't sound like that's what you were hinting at. You then say it's "easy to use on sun teams", which I disagree with. Possible? Yes..... Easy? idk ab that
 
Literally the only good thing about Mega Doom's ability is that it makes it a great Y-Zard check, it can switch into Fire Blast/Solarbeam easily (and Flash Fire boost in base form possibly) and then wreck everything with Solar Power. I would keep it where it is, it didn't gain too much from ORAS as far as I can see.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Yeah but you don't really need Mega Houndoom's ability to make it good. Solar Power is mostly just a perk when using Mega Houndoom that does allow it to be a good Mega Charizard Y check. Otherwise, it's just a dud ability. You don't need Solar Power at all to make Mega Houndoom function. You just need Nasty Plot and your STABs alone. I won't really reiterate what Gary2346 or Aragorn the King had said before...so I'd say go read their posts because they are just spot on with Mega Dog. Yeah Mega Houndoom didn't change much at all, but the metagame did, with things like Mega Sableye running around, and Mega Houndoom takes advantage of it.
 
Togekiss B- --> B
Togekiss checks/counters a fewof the new megas, such as Gallade, Sharpedo, Lopunny, Sceptile, and Swampert. Flying/Fairy typing is pretty unique, and provides some good resistances against common offensive types, such as fighting, dark, dragon, and more. Combined with roost, Togekiss can be used to a great extent.

Calcs:

252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 118-141 (31.6 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 114-135 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 117-138 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 129-153 (34.5 - 41%) -- 55.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Toge is a check in this situation)

Sceptile can't touch it so I see no reason to provide a calc.
252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss in Rain: 178-211 (47.7 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


I don't have a position on Togekiss's rank because I havent used it recently, but just thought I'd point this out (you forgot to factor in rain because Mega Swampert will almost always be used on rain teams).
 

Aragorn the King

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Literally the only good thing about Mega Doom's ability is that it makes it a great Y-Zard check, it can switch into Fire Blast/Solarbeam easily (and Flash Fire boost in base form possibly) and then wreck everything with Solar Power. I would keep it where it is, it didn't gain too much from ORAS as far as I can see.
I disagree. I'll link back to my old post in case you haven't seen it.

But just for a small summary:
- Keldeo and Azumarill, who used to check it, are a lot less common
- Mega Sableye basically defines stall now, and Houndoom makes its life a living hell
- Celebi and Jirachi are more common, and Houndoom easily crushes them
- Offense has become fixed about the 110 Speed tier, which Houndoom easily outpaces. This leads it revenge killing Latios and Latias, walling substitute Mega Latias completely, checking Mega Metagross, and revenge killing Mega Gallade, among other feats v. offense.

I do agree that its ability is useless... but look at Keldeo and Gallade.
 
I disagree. I'll link back to my old post in case you haven't seen it.

But just for a small summary:
- Keldeo and Azumarill, who used to check it, are a lot less common
- Mega Sableye basically defines stall now, and Houndoom makes its life a living hell
- Celebi and Jirachi are more common, and Houndoom easily crushes them
- Offense has become fixed about the 110 Speed tier, which Houndoom easily outpaces. This leads it revenge killing Latios and Latias, walling substitute Mega Latias completely, checking Mega Metagross, and revenge killing Mega Gallade, among other feats v. offense.

I do agree that its ability is useless... but look at Keldeo and Gallade.
I have a mega sableye stall team and I haven't had any trouble with mega houndoom. Its pretty easy to just switch into Chansey or Blissey and just force it out to take SR damage or start hitting it with seismic toss.

Granted Houndoom can taunt Chansey but it's not beating it. There are other wall breakers I fear more than Mega Houndoom that is for sure.. .

The opportunity cost is very high for what it does and its viability ranking should reflect that. It also needs mentioning that in the change to oras competition for a mega slot is greater now than what it was.

B- is more than generous enough IMO.
 
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Aragorn the King

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I have a mega sableye stall team and I haven't had any trouble with mega houndoom. Its pretty easy to just switch into Chansey or Blissey and just force it out to take SR damage or start hitting it with seismic toss.

Granted Houndoom can taunt Chansey but it's not beating it 1v1. There are other wall breakers I fear more than Mega Houndoom that is for sure.. .

The opportunity cost is very high for what it does and its viability ranking should reflect that.
+4 216 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

You can Nasty Plot on the switch, Taunt Chansey, Nasty Plot a second time, and then proceed to 2hko Chansey as it fails to 3hko you with seismic toss**. I mentioned Mega Sableye specifically because it's complete setup bait for Houndoom - with Shadow Ball + Knock Off doing nothing and Will-o-Wisp either doing nothing or boosting the power of Houndoom's Fire moves by 1.5. If Mega Sableye is on a team, Houndoom will be able to switch in, get to +2, and subsequently beat it, Chansey, Blissey, stallzard, Magic Guard Clefable, SpDef Heatran, Mew, defensive Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, (Mega) Slowbro, Jirachi, Celebi, Chesnaught, Skarmory, Alomomola (Scald does 37%...), Amoonguss, etc. If you want a Houndoom counter on Stall, look no further than Mega Altaria. However, you can't run Mega Altaria with Mega Sableye, so you have to be really careful when using Sableye v. a team with Houndoom (unless you want to resort to defensive Infernape or Tyranitar, whose sand really annoys stall teams).

I'm totally not saying that it's perfect. Opportunity cost is a valid qualm with using the "lesser" megas, and I get that, but I think Houndoom's stallbreaking ability + its ability to handle the 110 speed tier make it worth at least B rank (on the same page as Mega Camerupt).

e: I have a feeling someone will bring this up, so I may as well add that yes, Fblast only has a 85% accuracy, so the Chansey plan i gave only works 72.25%. It was just meant to show that it could be done - I realize it's better to start a Houndoom sweep after Chansey is weakened/dead, but it can still be executed with a chansey at 100%, especially if you switch in normal Houndoom into Sableye's Will-o-Wisp. Then you can 2hko chansey after only one Nasty Plot.

e2: ** Footnote I put the spread as 40 HP / 216 SpA so you have > 300 HP and thus are not 3hkod by Chansey. If it goes for the seismic toss as houndoom taunts + houndoom didn't get the boost from will-o-wisp, then chansey may win, but we're getting too specific here imo. The exact scenario shouldn't really matter - my post was really just a "Houndoom can 6-0 stall teams by abusing Mega Sableye," not that that it always will. Of course misses/mispredictions can offset your chance of winning.
 
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I have a mega sableye stall team and I haven't had any trouble with mega houndoom. Its pretty easy to just switch into Chansey or Blissey and just force it out to take SR damage or start hitting it with seismic toss.

Granted Houndoom can taunt Chansey but it's not beating it. There are other wall breakers I fear more than Mega Houndoom that is for sure.. .

The opportunity cost is very high for what it does and its viability ranking should reflect that.
I think you are underselling Mega Houndoom a little bit. While stealth rock is annoying and chansey walls it despite getting taunted, this can be said about almost any special attacker. What's really great about Mega Houndoom is that it's great against stall and offense. Nasty Plot + Taunt make it great against stall despite pink blob problems and Mega Houndoom's base 115 speed (which just got a lot better) and dual stabs really help it shine vs offense. I think you should really (re) read Aragorn the King's post because he summed it up nicely.
 
+4 216 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

You can Nasty Plot on the switch, Taunt Chansey, Nasty Plot a second time, and then proceed to 2hko Chansey as it fails to 3hko you with seismic toss. I mentioned Mega Sableye specifically because it's complete setup bait for Houndoom - with Shadow Ball + Knock Off doing nothing and Will-o-Wisp either doing nothing or boosting the power of Houndoom's Fire moves by 1.5. If Mega Sableye is on a team, Houndoom will be able to switch in, get to +2, and subsequently beat it, Chansey, Blissey, stallzard, Magic Guard Clefable, SpDef Heatran, Mew, defensive Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, (Mega) Slowbro, Jirachi, Celebi, Chesnaught, Skarmory, Alomomola (Scald does 37%...), Amoonguss, etc. If you want a Houndoom counter on Stall, look no further than Mega Altaria. However, you can't run Mega Altaria with Mega Sableye, so you have to be really careful when using Sableye v. a team with Houndoom (unless you want to resort to defensive Infernape or Tyranitar, whose sand really annoys stall teams).

I'm totally not saying that it's perfect. Opportunity cost is a valid qualm with using the "lesser" megas, and I get that, but I think Houndoom's stallbreaking ability + its ability to handle the 110 speed tier make it worth at least B rank (on the same page as Mega Camerupt).

e: I have a feeling someone will bring this up, so I may as well add that yes, Fblast only has a 85% accuracy, so the Chansey plan i gave only works 72.25%. It was just meant to show that it could be done - I realize it's better to start a Houndoom sweep after Chansey is weakened/dead, but it can still be executed with a chansey at 100%, especially if you switch in normal Houndoom into Sableye's Will-o-Wisp. Then you can 2hko chansey after only one Nasty Plot.
I'm seconding alla this ^

Also, Mega Houndoom vs Mega Sableye Stall:
 
+4 216 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (44 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

You can Nasty Plot on the switch, Taunt Chansey, Nasty Plot a second time, and then proceed to 2hko Chansey as it fails to 3hko you with seismic toss. I mentioned Mega Sableye specifically because it's complete setup bait for Houndoom - with Shadow Ball + Knock Off doing nothing and Will-o-Wisp either doing nothing or boosting the power of Houndoom's Fire moves by 1.5. If Mega Sableye is on a team, Houndoom will be able to switch in, get to +2, and subsequently beat it, Chansey, Blissey, stallzard, Magic Guard Clefable, SpDef Heatran, Mew, defensive Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, (Mega) Slowbro, Jirachi, Celebi, Chesnaught, Skarmory, Alomomola (Scald does 37%...), Amoonguss, etc. If you want a Houndoom counter on Stall, look no further than Mega Altaria. However, you can't run Mega Altaria with Mega Sableye, so you have to be really careful when using Sableye v. a team with Houndoom (unless you want to resort to defensive Infernape or Tyranitar, whose sand really annoys stall teams).

I'm totally not saying that it's perfect. Opportunity cost is a valid qualm with using the "lesser" megas, and I get that, but I think Houndoom's stallbreaking ability + its ability to handle the 110 speed tier make it worth at least B rank (on the same page as Mega Camerupt).

e: I have a feeling someone will bring this up, so I may as well add that yes, Fblast only has a 85% accuracy, so the Chansey plan i gave only works 72.25%. It was just meant to show that it could be done - I realize it's better to start a Houndoom sweep after Chansey is weakened/dead, but it can still be executed with a chansey at 100%, especially if you switch in normal Houndoom into Sableye's Will-o-Wisp. Then you can 2hko chansey after only one Nasty Plot.
The thing is that because Mega Houndoom carries taunt the Chansey user can go straight for seismic toss until Houndoom faints.

Seismic toss 3hkos Mega Houndoom. If Doom goes for another nasty plot after wasting a taunt its going to only get one +4 hit in on Chansey with a decent chance of missing.

Chansey will be left with half health but if it goes straight for seismic toss it can win and still be between 56-48%

Chansey is still a counter. You just need to make sure Chansey is not required to be at full health for another threat or you could be in big trouble.
 
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Valmanway

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Nominating Mega Altaria to A+. Mega Altaria's one of those jack-of-all-trades kind of Pokemon, and while each set may not be the best compared to other Pokemon and their versions of the set, predicting the wrong set can be fatal at times. If you bring in a physical wall, Mega Altaria could drop a Draco Meteor. If you bring in a special wall, it can hit like a truck with Pixilate Return. Did you bring in Heatran thinking it was the special set? Nope, it was mixed the whole time, but enjoy that Earthquake. And what if it isn't an attacker, and instead a wall? Is it a physical wall, or a special wall? What if it isn't a wall at all? Switching something in with the intent to wallbreak could provide a free turn for Mega Altaria to set up Dragon Dance and go crazy afterwards. Honestly, this thing has so much versatility that it isn't even funny. And pretty much every set it could run can pull its weight for the team; you can sweep teams with the offensive sets or wall attackers with the defensive sets. If I need to bring up the threats each set beats, I will, but for now, I say move Mega Altaria to A+.
 
The thing is that because Mega Houndoom carries taunt the Chansey user can go straight for seismic toss until Houndoom faints.

Seismic toss 3hkos Mega Houndoom. If Doom goes for another nasty plot after wasting a taunt its going to only get one +4 hit in on Chansey with a decent chance of missing.

Chansey will be left with half health but if it goes straight for seismic toss it can win and still be between 56-48%

Chansey is still a counter. You just need to make sure Chansey is not required to be at full health for another threat or you could be in big trouble.
imo Chansey is consistently the easiest pokemon to exploit on stall teams; lack of leftovers means it can't automatically recover from hazards damage, and it's depended on to tackle a majority of special attackers which makes it really easy to punish with and pull off double switches. Besides Chansey, stall really has no answers to Mega Houndoom (resttalk Azu??,) which is why it's threatening. That, and it shuts down Mega Sableye pretty hard (and the presence of a non-mega'd Houndoom will make them cautious to use wisp because Flash Fire boosted Houndoom will straight up destroy their whole team*,) and that's pretty much the face of ORAS stall. It's not going to sweep at turn one but it's definitely a bitch to take on.

*+2 252 SpA Flash Fire Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 289-342 (45 - 53.2%)
 

AM

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The thing is that because Mega Houndoom carries taunt the Chansey user can go straight for seismic toss until Houndoom faints.

Seismic toss 3hkos Mega Houndoom. If Doom goes for another nasty plot after wasting a taunt its going to only get one +4 hit in on Chansey with a decent chance of missing.

Chansey will be left with half health but if it goes straight for seismic toss it can win and still be between 56-48%

Chansey is still a counter. You just need to make sure Chansey is not required to be at full health for another threat or you could be in big trouble.
I mean if we're going off of theorymonning I could probably theorymon every single situation where that goes completely wrong in a practical sense considering what M-Houndoom is usually paired up with. M-Houndoom always had tools to utilize to break stall anyways, it just became even more significant because of new threats such as M-Sableye and the way the archetype of various teams are being built in that they're not preparing for it well.

When people describe viability some people keep missing not only what it does from a 1v1 standpoint but what it does as part of a cohesive unit. Although short ArchPhantoms replay was a really solid example in terms of a team-building perspective in correlation to M-Houndoom's typing and what it would and could provide. The fact that M-Houndoom sits at a ranking where mons are generally for the most part viable but have a somewhat niche value is unrealistic where it should fall under something that has viable tools and isn't as team specific as the B- ranked mons but more so the level of B rank where it has its positive traits of threatening the stall builds you see today in the current meta.

Edit: I also agree with a bump up for Togekiss to B but this one is a bit more debatable considering the nature of offense and sort of curious peoples take on this.
 

RichieTheAlmighty

Banned deucer.
Im very confused by your post. When a poke is nominated to move, it is the result of the meta evolving. Moving MHoundoom up based on good typing and his speed tier doesn't make sense bc neither have changed since XY OU lol. Its typing/speed tier may have become more useful thanks to new threats in ORAS such as MSableye, but it doesn't sound like that's what you were hinting at. You then say it's "easy to use on sun teams", which I disagree with. Possible? Yes..... Easy? idk ab that
Dont understand why you have to attack me, i was just trying to say that MHoundoom was cool in this meta, with its typing taking out a decent amount of threats.

Also i was not trying to make a 5 page essay like most of you here, just saying i agree with the nom. Either you dont attack richie for no reason, or dont attack anyone for no reason.
Thanks.
 
The thing is that because Mega Houndoom carries taunt the Chansey user can go straight for seismic toss until Houndoom faints.

Seismic toss 3hkos Mega Houndoom. If Doom goes for another nasty plot after wasting a taunt its going to only get one +4 hit in on Chansey with a decent chance of missing.

Chansey will be left with half health but if it goes straight for seismic toss it can win and still be between 56-48%

Chansey is still a counter. You just need to make sure Chansey is not required to be at full health for another threat or you could be in big trouble.
I mean if we're going off of theorymonning I could probably theorymon every single situation where that goes completely wrong in a practical sense considering what M-Houndoom is usually paired up with. M-Houndoom always had tools to utilize to break stall anyways, it just became even more significant because of new threats such as M-Sableye and the way the archetype of various teams are being built in that they're not preparing for it well.

When people describe viability some people keep missing not only what it does from a 1v1 standpoint but what it does as part of a cohesive unit. Although short ArchPhantoms replay was a really solid example in terms of a team-building perspective in correlation to M-Houndoom's typing and what it would and could provide. The fact that M-Houndoom sits at a ranking where mons are generally for the most part viable but have a somewhat niche value is unrealistic where it should fall under something that has viable tools and isn't as team specific as the B- ranked mons but more so the level of B rank where it has its positive traits of threatening the stall builds you see today in the current meta.

Edit: I also agree with a bump up for Togekiss to B but this one is a bit more debatable considering the nature of offense and sort of curious peoples take on this.
I just want to say that I feel chansey will definitely be winning against mega houndoom more often than not, but that shouldnt really count as a point against it. Every stallbreaker I can think of has at least one or two mons it cant deal with. Like AM was saying, so long as you make a decent team, having mega houndoom on your team will prove to be very effective against stall. I also wanted to reiterate how amazing 115 speed tier is, it is great against offensive teams as well. B seems like a very good fir for houndoom.
 
I'm nominating Mega Gyarados for A+ rank. MeGyarados beats almost all the new megas with this set I've been using:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 88 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

(For simplicity's sake I'm going to call unevolved Gyarados Gyarados and mega-evolved Gyarados MeGyarados.

Altaria: Loses
Audino: No idea, but who the fuck uses this anyway
Beedrill: Can OHKO without setups.
Diancie: Gyarados wins as long as Diancie isn't mega evolved, which is usually the case because Gyarados can come into play quicker than Diancie.
Gallade: As long as Gallade doesn't have thunderpunch, click dragon dance followed by waterfall.
Glalie: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance without intimidate and OHKO after SR. With intimidate it can setup 2 d-dances and OHKO.
Latias: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance and OHKO depending on the spread of the Latias. Of course if it is the stored power+calm mind+sub+roost it can't do shit
Latios: Same as Latias. T-bolt doesn't OHKO.
Lopunny: Gyarados sets up 2 d-dances with intimidate.
Metagross: The safest play is to intimidate it then mega evolve and d-dance up, then OHKO with crunch. Brick break/thunderpunch is not even a 2HKO after intimidate if it is jolly.
Pidgeot: Can OHKO at +1 after SR. Best not to setup on though so you don't risk getting confused by Hurricane.
Sabeleye: If Sabeleye is already Mega evolved it can't do shit. Setups for days.

Sceptile: Loses.
Sharpedo: Gets completely walled by MeGyarados. Setups for days.
Slowbro: Same as Sharpedo.

Swampert: Swampert wins in rain, loses without it.

So as you can see it beats 12 of them, is iffy with 2 and flat out loses to only 2 of them. Unfortunately it is completely walled by Azumarill, Chesnaught, Loom, and Keldeo (they both check eachother), so you just have to build around beating these mons. I recommend teaming it with Magnezone; probably scarfed, to deal with screaming faires and Azumarill; and team it with Latias as well to deal with Chesnaught and Keldeo and provide Healing wish and defog support.

MeGyarados was already a solid mon in x/y and with these new megas it can beat makes him even better, not to mention he gets crunch as a new stab move. It checks/counters a lot of top tier threats with its fantastic bulk and typing like Greninja, Heatran, Scizor (don't mega evolve), Excadrill, etc. It can also set up on the ever popular Ferrothorn which is probably the most common utility mon right now, barring it doesn't have power whip.

This is very similar to the bulky d-dance set on the damage calculator except I added 12 speed EVs to outspeed Weavile at +1 who can threaten MeGyarados with low kick. I took off 8 attack EVs from attack and 4 from defense to compensate for this.
 

Srn

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I'm nominating Mega Gyarados for A+ rank. MeGyarados beats almost all the new megas with this set I've been using:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 88 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

(For simplicity's sake I'm going to call unevolved Gyarados Gyarados and mega-evolved Gyarados MeGyarados.

Altaria: Loses
Audino: No idea, but who the fuck uses this anyway
Beedrill: Can OHKO without setups.
Diancie: Gyarados wins as long as Diancie isn't mega evolved, which is usually the case because Gyarados can come into play quicker than Diancie.
Gallade: As long as Gallade doesn't have thunderpunch, click dragon dance followed by waterfall.
Glalie: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance without intimidate and OHKO after SR. With intimidate it can setup 2 d-dances and OHKO.
Latias: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance and OHKO depending on the spread of the Latias. Of course if it is the stored power+calm mind+sub+roost it can't do shit
Latios: Same as Latias. T-bolt doesn't OHKO.
Lopunny: Gyarados sets up 2 d-dances with intimidate.
Metagross: The safest play is to intimidate it then mega evolve and d-dance up, then OHKO with crunch. Brick break/thunderpunch is not even a 2HKO after intimidate if it is jolly.
Pidgeot: Can OHKO at +1 after SR. Best not to setup on though so you don't risk getting confused by Hurricane.
Sabeleye: If Sabeleye is already Mega evolved it can't do shit. Setups for days.

Sceptile: Loses.
Sharpedo: Gets completely walled by MeGyarados. Setups for days.
Slowbro: Same as Sharpedo.

Swampert: Swampert wins in rain, loses without it.

So as you can see it beats 12 of them, is iffy with 2 and flat out loses to only 2 of them. Unfortunately it is completely walled by Azumarill, Chesnaught, Loom, and Keldeo (they both check eachother), so you just have to build around beating these mons. I recommend teaming it with Magnezone; probably scarfed, to deal with screaming faires and Azumarill; and team it with Latias as well to deal with Chesnaught and Keldeo and provide Healing wish and defog support.

MeGyarados was already a solid mon in x/y and with these new megas it can beat makes him even better, not to mention he gets crunch as a new stab move. It checks/counters a lot of top tier threats with its fantastic bulk and typing like Greninja, Heatran, Scizor (don't mega evolve), Excadrill, etc. It can also set up on the ever popular Ferrothorn which is probably the most common utility mon right now, barring it doesn't have power whip.

This is very similar to the bulky d-dance set on the damage calculator except I added 12 speed EVs to outspeed Weavile at +1 who can threaten MeGyarados with low kick. I took off 8 attack EVs from attack and 4 from defense to compensate for this.
You're actually wrong about mega sceptile because with a jolly nature (you should be running this) you can nearly KO with +1 crunch.
Mega gyarados is insane this gen for sure with crunch, A+ is a must.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
just kidding you just kill lmao
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Just a bit more patience guys, i will be back on Tuesday and we will get started with fixing the list, now that Mega Salamence has been banned. Actually, you can start talking about S and A+ ranks again, so we can save some time. See you in a few days ;D
 
You're actually wrong about mega sceptile because with a jolly nature (you should be running this) you can nearly KO with +1 crunch.
Mega gyarados is insane this gen for sure with crunch, A+ is a must.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
just kidding you just kill lmao
Well the thing with that is you have to literally run max speed to outspeed timid sceptile at +1 and have to run 240 atk EVs to OHKO Sceptile at +1 with jolly nature so you have to sacrifice some bulk just to take on 1 more mon, I dont think its worth it but that's just my opinion.
 
Mega Gyarados for A+ as well. What I also love is that its two STABs can actually let you bullshit a win against even his heavy checks sometimes. I've managed to come out on top against Azumarill a few times thanks to Waterfall's flinch. Crunch's ability to drop defense can also help you occasionally too.

Regarding Gyarados v Sceptile, if Sceptile is megavolved first there isn't really anything Gyarados can do. If Gyarados is megavolved first with Sceptile coming in as you Dragon Dance, you will still be faster even without max speed because Sceptile's base speed is still only 120 that turn. Many Sceptile's are only running enough speed to outrun Greninja as well, so you aren't missing too much to simply speed creep that number in practice after a Dragon Dance.

Mega Houndoom for B there have been some very good arguments for that. Once you get past the notion that it requires Sun to function (it doesn't), you do begin to see its assets in its typing, STABs and speed tier. Man, Dark and Fire are just really bad news for much of the 110 speed tier, and moves like Taunt and Destiny Bond are just dastardly fun tools to get extra boosts or a cheap kill. And remember, Dark Pulse can cause flinching, which can come in handy against things like Chansey that were mentioned occasionally.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm nominating Mega Gyarados for A+ rank. MeGyarados beats almost all the new megas with this set I've been using:

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 88 HP / 184 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

(For simplicity's sake I'm going to call unevolved Gyarados Gyarados and mega-evolved Gyarados MeGyarados.

Altaria: Loses
Audino: No idea, but who the fuck uses this anyway
Beedrill: Can OHKO without setups.
Diancie: Gyarados wins as long as Diancie isn't mega evolved, which is usually the case because Gyarados can come into play quicker than Diancie.
Gallade: As long as Gallade doesn't have thunderpunch, click dragon dance followed by waterfall.
Glalie: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance without intimidate and OHKO after SR. With intimidate it can setup 2 d-dances and OHKO.
Latias: MeGyarados can setup 1 dragon dance and OHKO depending on the spread of the Latias. Of course if it is the stored power+calm mind+sub+roost it can't do shit
Latios: Same as Latias. T-bolt doesn't OHKO.
Lopunny: Gyarados sets up 2 d-dances with intimidate.
Metagross: The safest play is to intimidate it then mega evolve and d-dance up, then OHKO with crunch. Brick break/thunderpunch is not even a 2HKO after intimidate if it is jolly.
Pidgeot: Can OHKO at +1 after SR. Best not to setup on though so you don't risk getting confused by Hurricane.
Sabeleye: If Sabeleye is already Mega evolved it can't do shit. Setups for days.

Sceptile: Loses.
Sharpedo: Gets completely walled by MeGyarados. Setups for days.
Slowbro: Same as Sharpedo.

Swampert: Swampert wins in rain, loses without it.

So as you can see it beats 12 of them, is iffy with 2 and flat out loses to only 2 of them. Unfortunately it is completely walled by Azumarill, Chesnaught, Loom, and Keldeo (they both check eachother), so you just have to build around beating these mons. I recommend teaming it with Magnezone; probably scarfed, to deal with screaming faires and Azumarill; and team it with Latias as well to deal with Chesnaught and Keldeo and provide Healing wish and defog support.

MeGyarados was already a solid mon in x/y and with these new megas it can beat makes him even better, not to mention he gets crunch as a new stab move. It checks/counters a lot of top tier threats with its fantastic bulk and typing like Greninja, Heatran, Scizor (don't mega evolve), Excadrill, etc. It can also set up on the ever popular Ferrothorn which is probably the most common utility mon right now, barring it doesn't have power whip.

This is very similar to the bulky d-dance set on the damage calculator except I added 12 speed EVs to outspeed Weavile at +1 who can threaten MeGyarados with low kick. I took off 8 attack EVs from attack and 4 from defense to compensate for this.
Please never use green or yellow text again. It hurts to read.

Mega Gyarados for A+ as well. What I also love is that its two STABs can actually let you bullshit a win against even his heavy checks sometimes. I've managed to come out on top against Azumarill a few times thanks to Waterfall's flinch. Crunch's ability to drop defense can also help you occasionally too.

Regarding Gyarados v Sceptile, if Sceptile is megavolved first there isn't really anything Gyarados can do. If Gyarados is megavolved first with Sceptile coming in as you Dragon Dance, you will still be faster even without max speed because Sceptile's base speed is still only 120 that turn. Many Sceptile's are only running enough speed to outrun Greninja as well, so you aren't missing too much to simply speed creep that number in practice after a Dragon Dance.

Mega Houndoom for B there have been some very good arguments for that. Once you get past the notion that it requires Sun to function (it doesn't), you do begin to see its assets in its typing, STABs and speed tier. Man, Dark and Fire are just really bad news for much of the 110 speed tier, and moves like Taunt and Destiny Bond are just dastardly fun tools to get extra boosts or a cheap kill. And remember, Dark Pulse can cause flinching, which can come in handy against things like Chansey that were mentioned occasionally.
Shouldn't Mega Sceptile be running enough speed to beat Mega Manectric/Mega Lopunny or Speed tie with Mega Beedrill? I understand if you're running a Mixed Set or HP Fire why you wouldn't run max speed, but Mega Manectric at least is an important benchmark.
 
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