Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers

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Well, to be fair, as one of Smogon's biggest critics, I'm not happy with the fact that everyone seems to adhere to Smogon's word like God and just disconnects when they don't like something (especially with a properly built team of ubers like mine, I'm not a kid), it's really wrong and disrespectful in my opinion. That's not to say I think GameFreak should have official VGC ladders and ubers rated ladders online, but that's a small gripe.

And also, I haven't got around to building a competitive team on Wi-Fi yet. The Legendary shakedown has been quite frankly, a lot (I'm trying to catch passable things as quickly), and I'm going back to work soon, so my time has been cut by 3/4 about (I'm desperately trying to finish while I can). I haven't even tried things like Mega Mence or Mega Quaza due to just sheer time and I'm hearing about bans and it feels wrong.

Maybe a bit more accentuation that you don't create official tiers and even Nintendo tier ladders outside of Battle Spot would be nice, even if they're hardly played. If I'm going to try something out I'd like it to be accurate to the cartridge and not relegated to some of the clauses.

-James
Why are you even trying to say Smogon is relevant to this? If someone is looking for battles using and fighting against Pokemon with BST in the 500-600 range, they're not going to want to fight 700 BST Pokemon whatever they think of Smogon's rules.

Of course, if they see from Smogon what Pokemon with more standard BSTs like Blaziken and Aegislash are capable of and also decide they're not interested in getting into that, who can blame them? People follow Smogon's rules if they want to, and it's not a bad thing if they see the decisions and agree there's something to them.
 
Well, honestly, I don't go challenging people that say "OU/UU" if I see it on their profile. This mostly goes for people directly challenging me. They basically challenge me, then see my team, and walk out. Or in one case, the guy clearly started the battle, my Mewtwo had Flamethrower, and killed his spike-stacking strategy dead on the first turn, then ragequit rather than taking the loss. It's things like that that bother me.

If you start the battle at least finish it.

-James
Someone accepted a battle against your Mewtwo and ragequit when it wrecked them and you're blaming Smogon?

There are people with bad conduct, but this won't help address it.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Well, honestly, I don't go challenging people that say "OU/UU" if I see it on their profile. This mostly goes for people directly challenging me. They basically challenge me, then see my team, and walk out. Or in one case, the guy clearly started the battle, my Mewtwo had Flamethrower, and killed his spike-stacking strategy dead on the first turn, then ragequit rather than taking the loss. It's things like that that bother me.

If you start the battle at least finish it.

-James
Your complaints are less about the system and more about Sturgeon's Law.
 
May I ask how the hell AG is a successor to the old Ubers philosophy? Ever since Ubers has been played (and hence had relevance) it has been treated as a competitive environment with uncompetitive bullshit like Moody and OHKO moves and evasion (lolololol why is this unbanned?). Suggesting this as an alternative for those who don't agree with this philosophy is just totally disappointing and a terrible move imo. It's abundantly clear that the existence of this "meta" serves literally no purpose other than to allow people to troll each other.

By contrast the MRay meta was still competitive, if extremely warped by MRay's existence, and I actually enjoyed the challenge of thinking of ways to handle MRay (though I didn't get time to try much because it was banned so quickly).
 
Why on earth would the tier be anything other than cancer with uncompetitive crap explicitly allowed? I highly doubt there's any shiny new toy effect at play. Also I definitely disagree with the sentiment that trolls are particularly prevalent on day one of a new meta, in every competitive environment it's been my experience that people play as per normal, with the obvious caveat that no-one knows what they're doing because new meta lol
 
Well, honestly, I don't go challenging people that say "OU/UU" if I see it on their profile. This mostly goes for people directly challenging me. They basically challenge me, then see my team, and walk out. Or in one case, the guy clearly started the battle, my Mewtwo had Flamethrower, and killed his spike-stacking strategy dead on the first turn, then ragequit rather than taking the loss. It's things like that that bother me.

If you start the battle at least finish it.

-James
idk what you put on your profile, but it's clearly enticing enough for some people to challenge you. Maybe you made it clear that your team contains Ubers, maybe not.

People ragequitting makes you upset? Shouldn't you feel proud instead?
What, you want finished battles of you steamrolling opposing, mismatched teams? Forfeiting saves time for the both of you. You're both richer as a result. Be happy.
What, you want quality matches between other Ubers players? Well, you're going to have to find them from the garbage players, as Karxiride mentioned.

If you don't like Smogon's rulesets, then you don't have to abide by them. Of course, a lot of people do, so it might be somewhat hard to find a decent opponent!
 
this is obv. MRayquaza x2 with exspeed kill all pokemon faster him. pokemon bulky slower him (Primal-Groudon) Killed by Dragon ascent x2.
 
I'm not going to lol, I just think it's a really lousy idea implementing the tier as it is in the first place, and I'm also quite irritated that it's being made out to be a successor to Ubers when it doesn't reflect any previous ubers meta- if you're prepared to create an additional side meta to cater for old uber ideals (which is cool), you could at least make it a competitive environment, not this crap.

I just really want to play a tier that is true to the now outdated ideal of ubers (Every competitive strategy permitted) that isn't full of shit. At least that's how I see it anyway *shrugs*
then play ubers?
 
then play ubers?
Except MRay wasn't uncompetitive, just broken as fuck, and yet it's been banned. Meaning that since we've banned something that was perfectly competitive, I'm forced to turn to turn to AG, which is utter trash. And I actually liked having MRay around. I could've sworn I more or less said as much in my previous posts.

I don't see any merit to AG beyond the shallow novelty of using otherwise banned strategies, and that'd wear off quickly I imagine.
 
Well, to be fair, as one of Smogon's biggest critics, I'm not happy with the fact that everyone seems to adhere to Smogon's word like God and just disconnects when they don't like something (especially with a properly built team of ubers like mine, I'm not a kid), it's really wrong and disrespectful in my opinion.
Uh, how do you know that has anything to do with Smogon? Before I knew Smogon existed I quit on people who used ubers. Even kids know that ubers are busted and unfair against any team that isn't also filled with ubers. The fact that you automatically assume someone quitting on you is to do with smogon is ridiculous, and then you go and assume said person follows the rules here like a religion and that everyone else who quits because you have ubers is from smogon and following the rules religiously, when that's not the case at all, it's just random players who don't want to play broken unfair crap.

Even before things like Smogon existed there was stigma about using cover legendaries vs the Pokemon League and trainers because it made it easy. This etiquette has been around since the beginning of pokemon.
People like fair battles (for the most part). Ubers = extremely unfair. This has nothing to do with Smogon rules.
 
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Except MRay wasn't uncompetitive, just broken as fuck, and yet it's been banned. Meaning that since we've banned something that was perfectly competitive, I'm forced to turn to turn to AG, which is utter trash. And I actually liked having MRay around. I could've sworn I more or less said as much in my previous posts.

I don't see any merit to AG beyond the shallow novelty of using otherwise banned strategies, and that'd wear off quickly I imagine.
you can be "broken" to the point of being "uncompetitive"

but okay, whatever. sorry about your loss.
 
I just hope Anything Goes doesn't cause people to jump the gun on new threats, I'm sure many people would've clamored for Xerneas to go there had it been around when XY got released.
 

Blue Jay

The notorious Good Wife
is a Contributor Alumnus
Except MRay wasn't uncompetitive, just broken as fuck, and yet it's been banned. Meaning that since we've banned something that was perfectly competitive, I'm forced to turn to turn to AG, which is utter trash. And I actually liked having MRay around. I could've sworn I more or less said as much in my previous posts.

I don't see any merit to AG beyond the shallow novelty of using otherwise banned strategies, and that'd wear off quickly I imagine.
The line between broken and uncompetitive is a pretty obscure and arbitrary one. This was one of matters discussed in the process of reaching this decision.

Evasion is uncompetitive in the sense that it enables a luck-reliant strategy that can win games. Nonetheless, it's permissible because it's generally not effective enough to justify (hence chaos' first point about unreasonably increasing volatility, which did not happen with evasion). Uncompetitiveness alone does not necessarily warrant a ban.

Moreover, according to your principles, the sleep clause should be revoked. The ability to put multiple Pokemon to sleep is not in any way more or less competitive than the ability to put one Pokemon to sleep. Both players have control, and can play Rest + Sleep Talk users or Insomnia Pokemon in response. It's merely overpowered, unreasonably centralizing and outright unfun competitively, and this is widely regarded as ample justification to maintain the sleep clause in Ubers as in other tiers. Based on these exact criteria, Mega Rayquaza was also banned.

People seem to have a lot to say about the "spirit of Ubers" and maintaining its integrity. Remarkably, whenever any ban in the tier is taken under serious consideration, a lot of people that I never see in the Ubers room or on the forums discussing Ubers otherwise suddenly seem to have a lot to say on the matter. It strikes me as bizarre, however, to think of the spirit of the tier to be anything other than the attitude that most its players bring to it, and the overwhelming support with which this decision has been met suggests to me that this spirit was in no way tarnished, and that to do otherwise would in fact be to impose a dated ideal of the spirit of Ubers upon a playerbase that largely no longer holds this ideal.
 
idc about the ban but I have to say that it was p easy to be consistent and outplay your opponent. M-ray kinda brought some kind of balance and imo made team matchup have less of an impact. I think that M-ray made the tier more competitive but ofc it ruined all the fun by forcing everyone to run variants of HO so its still a good decision to ban M-ray. Still, I rather play a metagame with M-ray then a meta with evasion and b-pass chains.
 

Blue Jay

The notorious Good Wife
is a Contributor Alumnus
I just hope Anything Goes doesn't cause people to jump the gun on new threats, I'm sure many people would've clamored for Xerneas to go there had it been around when XY got released.
This is not at all the intention, and at least for now bans will come from the tier leadership after the recent disastrous suspect tests. The criteria, as outlined by chaos, are quite stringent and will not easily be met (in fact, I feel that no threat in BW or XY could meet any of them until Mega Rayquaza). Mostly, it should just allow people to talk about bans in Ubers without uproar, and importantly also provide relatively clear criteria by which to justify them.

And for all we know, the next gen will have such powerful legendaries that Mega Rayquaza will be reintroduced into Ubers among equals.
 
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