Pokémon Latios

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Mixed set would also work, given Latios has impressive SpA, even when uninvested.

Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Maybe...
I have a (regular) Latios with the exact same spread and set, and I find it pretty underwhelming even in-game. I don't think Outrage is that good on Latios (usually ended up DMing everyone anyway) and found the lack of coverage to be kind of frustrating.

Then again Latios has a crap physical movepool. Zen headbutt is decent STAB I guess but I see little merit over Psyshock. At one point I even considered steel wing for the fairies...lol
 
I have a (regular) Latios with the exact same spread and set, and I find it pretty underwhelming even in-game. I don't think Outrage is that good on Latios (usually ended up DMing everyone anyway) and found the lack of coverage to be kind of frustrating.

Then again Latios has a crap physical movepool. Zen headbutt is decent STAB I guess but I see little merit over Psyshock. At one point I even considered steel wing for the fairies...lol
You found the problem with your own set... Regular Latios, the one that has base 90 attack, whereas MEGA Latios has base 130 attack. Base 130 attack is higher than or equal to: Terrakion, Breloom, Mamoswine, Garchomp, Scizor.
 

Hogg

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You found the problem with your own set... Regular Latios, the one that has base 90 attack, whereas MEGA Latios has base 130 attack. Base 130 attack is higher than or equal to: Terrakion, Breloom, Mamoswine, Garchomp, Scizor.
Base 90 with Life Orb hits about as hard (slightly harder, actually) as itemless base 130.
 
Base 90 with Life Orb hits about as hard (slightly harder, actually) as itemless base 130.
Actually it doesn't:

4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 117-140 (29 - 34.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 124-146 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Hogg

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That's with 4 Attack EVs. Try it with 252, as the above-referenced set has:

252 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 148-176 (36.7 - 43.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 148-177 (36.7 - 43.9%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Like I said, almost exactly the same, but LO technically hits slightly harder.
 
I find that Mega-Latios works as a great offensive "nuke pivot" (and partner for Swords Dance Talonflame) when using this set.

Talon's Waifu (Latios) (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Defog
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor

- 248 HP is to be as bulky as possible while taking less damage from entry hazards.
- A Modest Nature and 168 Special Attack EVs allow you to reach an impressive stat of 437 which is the same as Jolly Mega Pinsir's Attack.
- 92 Speed EVs places you at 279, which allows you to outrun Jolly Mega Heracross, Max Speed Taunt Heatran, Breloom, Stallbreaker Mew, Non-SubTox Gliscor, and Bisharp.
- This set is primarily designed for consistent Defog usage, longevity, and to take advantage of M-Latios' above average bulk and excellent resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, and Fighting. (Keldeo will cry even more lol)
- However, it can also be used as a surprise check to some threats if near full health.

A Few Calcs (I've modified Latios' stats to mirror the Mega Evolution)

Bisharp
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 174-204 (63.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Greninja
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 281-330 (77.4 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 250-296 (68.8 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Obvious OHKO with Draco Meteor)

***

-Because of that strong 437 Special Attack, this Latios can also cleanup once his threats are weakened/taken care of and is by no means a sitting duck. He has great synergy with Swords Dance Talonflame because the bird OHKO's many of the faster threats that this Latios can't handle (please don't try getting this thing to tank an M-Garde Hyper Voice, Beedrill U-Turn, or Latias Draco Meteor, it won't.) This Latios appreciates support from teammates that can pick-off faster threats, and in return, it will sponge elemental hits and nuke things with Draco Meteor.

Actually I sort of lied about Beedrill...
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latios: 340-404 (93.6 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO. Eh maybe it can tank it...
Mega Latias can reach higher levels of bulk with just 48 HP EVs meaning it has a bunch more EVs to spend on Special Attack. 252 SA Latias has 95.1% the special attack of Mega Latios but about 15% more bulk (with a spread of 164 HP / 252 SA / 92 Speed). This guarantees survival against Greninja and Bisharp's attacks instead of "survives only sometimes after SR".

I really really want Mega Latios to find some sort of niche but it competes with an obscene number of other superpowered Mega Dragons for a team slot. The best I can see this thing doing it completely sacrificing the typical offensive Defogger role for a 4 attacks mixed set with something like Earthquake / Meteor / Psyshock / HP Fire or maybe 3 attacks + Recover. Maybe a bulky modest spread might work but I think missing out on outrunning Garchomp / Landorus etc is really important.
 
That's with 4 Attack EVs. Try it with 252, as the above-referenced set has:

Like I said, almost exactly the same, but LO technically hits slightly harder.
What calculator are you even using? Got the exact opposite for both earlier in Showdown's.
 

Hogg

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That's odd - I'm using Showdown's as well.

Let's try Outrage:

252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 169-200 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Latios Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 169-199 (38 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Same deal - almost identical, with LO base 90 hitting slightly harder (but just by a hair).
 
I've said this before elsewhere, but Mega Latios is definitely what I'd consider to be a "luxury" Mega. On its own, I'd definitely say that it's better off than regular LO Latios. The loss of special power is worth it in exchange for a bit more physical power (assuming low Atk investment), more overall bulk, less damage from Knock Off, and immunity to Trick/Switcheroo. However, it's not so much better that you should bend over backwards to use it. There are so many other great Mega Pokemon you could choose from, and LO Latios is already a great Pokemon in its own right, so you wouldn't be much worse off just using the classic Life Orb set. That's why I'd say it's more of a luxury; if you get to the end of teambuilding and you don't already have a Mega Pokemon nor see a need for one, go ahead and slap on the Latiosite. Otherwise, you might be better off just using the still great Life Orb Latios and taking advantage of the perks offered by another Mega Pokemon.

Mega Latias is different, though. It actually stands out more thanks to its impressive defenses, and the difference between Mega Latias and LO Latias's power outputs isn't quite as drastic as that between Mega Latios and LO Latios. Since the extra bulk is the main reason to use Latias over Latios to begin with, the lack of Life Orb recoil is also an even bigger deal for Mega Latias than for Mega Latios. All that put together makes Mega Latias significantly more worth the Mega slot than Mega Latios in my opinion.

EDIT:
With regards to these damage calculations, don't forget that those are assuming max Atk for both Life Orb Latios and Mega Latios. If you assume a specially-based mixed set with minimal Atk investment, you get calculations more like this:

4 Atk Mega Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.3 - 105.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (85.1 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
 
252 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 428-506 (142.1 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 437-515 (145.1 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO

LO hits harder on everything according to showdowns calcs.
 
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LO Latios hits marginally harder but it's also taking 10% of your health each turn. As an offensive pokemon that's expected to check stuff like Keldeo and Landorus, the loss in bulk is a bit of a drawback. Bulk is really important so I sometimes get annoyed when people say "oh well LO X hits a bit harder than Y so Y isn't all that good." (and it peaked in stupidity near the beginning of XY, where people were saying Mega Gengar wasn't so hard to handle because LO Gengar hit harder LOL.)

Mega Latios doesn't look very appealing though, it's such a minor upgrade over normal Latios (except DD sets maybe?) and Mega Latias looks to be better, trading a bit of power for tons of bulk. Mega Latias however is a tad overpowered, Sub/CM/Roost/Stored Power is bonkers and is very hard to stop. Like just use M-Latias and three Dark checks or some shit.
 
We weren't arguing the use of a physical LO latios or saying physical latios is better than mega latios lol. We were correcting a post from a user who replied to someone who said outrage was underwhelming on regular latios with the argument "You found the problem with your own set... Regular Latios, the one that has base 90 attack, whereas MEGA Latios has base 130 attack. Base 130 attack is higher than or equal to: Terrakion, Breloom, Mamoswine, Garchomp, Scizor" when really on a purely attacking basis (not factoring in any of mega latios' other stats) that higher attack is irrelevant in this specfic case as outrage on LO base 90 latios is hitting pretty much exactly as hard as mega latios, so saying the problem is latios' weaker base 90 attack is incorrect.
 
Due to the release of eon ticket in many countries, soul dew is now obtainable in the game. I am not sure whether soul dew will be banned just like 5th generation, but i think it is interesting to see whether it is more superior than using mega latios or latias
 

AM

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Due to the release of eon ticket in many countries, soul dew is now obtainable in the game. I am not sure whether soul dew will be banned just like 5th generation, but i think it is interesting to see whether it is more superior than using mega latios or latias
Soul Dew is banned from OU just an fyi so don't have to worry about the Latis nuking half the tier into oblivion.
 

AM

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oh i see, sorry i haven been to competitive OU battle for a long time
Yeah don't worry about it, it was a question a lot of people had so it's understandable. Also welcome back.

So that this post has some substance to it earlier today I faced a team that utilized both M-Latios and Healing Latias which I thought was a pretty neat way to utilize both of these for a more offensive build. Some partners I saw were Lando-T (What a plot twist right?), Scizor, and Talonflame and I know in the past and others have utilized both the Lati Twins together on a team. I personally don't think there's actually a significant lack in viability towards M-Latios and Latios other than the fact you would use M-Latios if you don't have the mega slot filled at that point. One benefit of Mega Latios that I do enjoy is that it takes a smaller amount of damage from Pursuit trappers. If using a bit of a bulkier spread I find it has some more consistency than regular Latios where you can't necessarily build it to be a bit more defensive due to the base forms defensive limitations. I think each has there own merits I suppose it's the whole "opportunity cost" thing flying around that puts people off a bit, which makes sense but to me not to the point where you would just not consider it at all.
 
Any opinions on the choice of nature for mixed Mega-Latios?

Hasty leaves the natural special bulk intact, but you take more damage from priority moves like ice shard aquajet etc.. On the other hand Naive does the opposite but you still get a respectable special defense.

I did some calcs but it didn't help that much in making a decision.

Hasty Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Mega Latios: 190-226 (62.9 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 174-205 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Mega Latios: 135-159 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 120-142 (39.7 - 47%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Naive Calcs
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Mega Latios: 289-343 (95.6 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 260-307 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Mega Latios: 304-359 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 273-322 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
 
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Any opinions on the choice of nature for mixed Latios?

Hasty leaves the natural special bulk intact, but you take more damage from priority moves like ice shard aquajet etc.. On the other hand Naive does the opposite but you still get a respectable special defense.

I did some calcs but it didn't help that much in making a decision.

Hasty Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Mega Latios: 190-226 (62.9 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 174-205 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Latios: 135-159 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 120-142 (39.7 - 47%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Naive Calcs
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Latios: 289-343 (95.6 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 260-307 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Latios: 304-359 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 273-322 (90.3 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
The only physical move you want to use on Latios is Earthquake for Heatran (And maybe Tyranitar, although I don't think it does much). Timid is still the nature of choice since it still OHKOs Heatran.
If you're wanting to use a Dragon Dancer: Don't. Regular Latios is outclassed by Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer and Mega Latios is outclassed by Char X and Altaria.
 

Karxrida

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'd say don't use it at all. The cost/benefit ratio is too high and it's outclassed by a lot on top of it.
 
The only physical move you want to use on Latios is Earthquake for Heatran (And maybe Tyranitar, although I don't think it does much). Timid is still the nature of choice since it still OHKOs Heatran.
If you're wanting to use a Dragon Dancer: Don't. Regular Latios is outclassed by Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer and Mega Latios is outclassed by Char X and Altaria.
I'd say don't use it at all. The cost/benefit ratio is too high and it's outclassed by a lot on top of it.
Sorry I meant Mega Latios not regular Latios. If I really wanted to would you suggest hasty or naive?
 

Karxrida

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Sorry I meant Mega Latios not regular Latios. If I really wanted to would you suggest hasty or naive?
I already assumed you were talking about Mega Latios, that's why I said not to use it lol.

I'd say Naive, personally, since you take less from Scizor's Bullet Punch, Pinsir's/Diggersby's Quick Attack, Dragonite's Extreme Speed, etc.
 
Why is this the Latios/Latias thread when the OP has no information Latias and most of this thread is in regards to Latios? Can this be split since they are 2 different mons that have different sets? Especially now with the mega differences in bulk.
 
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alexwolf

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I have been theorymoning and trying to find a way to make Mega Latios worth using, and i came up with this:

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf / Hidden Power Fire

Lack of LO recoil and increased bulk compliment perfectly a Calm Mind set, making the most out of Mega Latios's pros over regular Latios. This set can lure and beat common Latios checks such as Magic Guard Clefable, SpD Heatran, Mega Diancie, Tyranitar, Klefki, and Chansey, while being able to keep on doing work after the check / counter has been KOed, unless the opponent has a faster Pokemon able to KO Latios or a strong priority user. Surf takes care of Heatran, Mega Diancie, and Tyranitar, but HP Fire is nice for Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Klefki (2HKO at +1), Mega Scizor, and other Steel-types. Here are some offensive and defensive relevant calcs:

Offensive calcs:
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 244-288 (63.3 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 304-358 (47.3 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Diancie: 352-416 (146 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 180-214 (56.6 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 352-416 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Defensive calcs:
  • 252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 174-206 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 114-134 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • 252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 242-288 (80.1 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 138-164 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 187-221 (61.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latios: 122-146 (40.3 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So, Mega Latios seems as a decent breaker and even cleaner if the opponent does the mistake of sending a death fodder as you use CM and the opponent lacks faster physical attackers or strong priority. Duals Screens and Healing Wish also seem to help this set a lot, and probably make Mega Latios quite a pain to face in specially based HO.
 
I believe the lure set is done by Mega Latios the best

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Naive
252 Spe / 252 SpA / 6 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
- Defog / Roost / Dragon Dance

Not taking Life Orb Damage allows it to abuse its new bulk to take a Knock Off, Pursuit or Sucker Punch to an extent from the likes of Bisharp or Ttar and both don't want to get 2HKOed by EQ.
Hidden Power Fire would be for Ferro mainly.
 

Karxrida

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is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I believe the lure set is done by Mega Latios the best

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Naive
252 Spe / 252 SpA / 6 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt
- Defog / Roost / Dragon Dance

Not taking Life Orb Damage allows it to abuse its new bulk to take a Knock Off, Pursuit or Sucker Punch to an extent from the likes of Bisharp or Ttar and both don't want to get 2HKOed by EQ.
Hidden Power Fire would be for Ferro mainly.
Sucker Punch and Pursuit (if you switch out) are still OHKOs.

252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 336-396 (111.2 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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