XY RU Gen 4 Memories

[Brap]

Haha hi people. So after spending hours and hours on my previous RMT and getting hardly any replies, I'll try to keep this one shorter.

So basically the other day I was reminiscing about the good old days of Pokemon. DPP UU, namely. My all-time favourite tier. I was going over my favourite team from then in my head, and then I wondered how that team would do today. And purely by chance, or perhaps by a miracle, all 6 Pokemon are legal (not in that respect, you dirty b*****d) on the RU ladder. And it turns out the team is pretty darn good! I've made no changes to the team, so there probably are a few things/changes that would make it better for XY RU (Which I have no prior experience of).

Team building in here:

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Haha so please bare in mind this team was made at least 4 years ago. The name of the game is semi-stall. Basically it's meant to annoy the opponent to an extent, but it's not really slow and has a clear route to success.

I started off knowing I definitely want to use SubRoost Moltres & found it works very well in tandem with SubSeed Sceptile.

Those 2 cause switches, so we need hazards. Plus FWG cores were all the rage back in Gen 4 UU, so Omastar was added.

Now I need a ghost to prevent my hazards from being spun, and something to prevent the opponent from full-stalling on me. Stallbreaker Mismagius.

But wait, Foresight Hitmontop is everywhere and hazards are key for this team. I need another Ghost. I could also do with some priority. Spiritomb seems good.

Finally I needed my own rapid spinner, for Moltres mainly. A toss-up between Hitmontop and Claydol. I like Intimidate so I went with Montop.

Team:

Omastar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Surf
- Earth Power

Not my lead in the team preview (That's Sceptile, to stop people leading with Grass types), but my lead in 99% of matches. Even from a low base 55 speed, maximum investment and a Timid nature outspeeds up to and including univested base 95s. Stealth Rock is one of the best moves in the game. Spikes over T Spikes because they're more reliable and I already have Toxic elsewhere. Surf for a water move, other options are available I guess. Earth Power for Poison and Steel types... Yeah not sure about that myself.

Focus Sash means I'm usually getting at least 2 layers of hazards, which can be aided by Weak Armour sometimes. Although sometimes Weak Armor is more of a hinderance, depending on the situation. I am tempted to switch back to Swift Swim.

Sceptile @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Ah good old Sub-Seed. Everyone knows it works :) Causes switches, wears down health, and recovers its own health. It's fast too. Giga Drain chosen as the Grass move just for extra recovery, and can get very powerful if I've subbed down to Overgrow range. HP Ice over Fire for Gligar. I can stall out most steel-types anyway, and if not then they're usually handled by Moltres. Max speed doesn't really need to be explained. I could have put the other 252 into HP, but I prefer being able to do more damage than having bigger subs. Plus without investment, the Hidden Power of choice would become very weak. Lefties for even more recovery.

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

The last part of the main core, Moltres fits very well with Omastar and Sceptile. Once it has a substitute up, it's only really walled completely by specially defensive poison types, of which there aren't many in RU. Sub helps protect against the Toxic and T Wave that Moltres is a natural target for, Roost for regaining health lost by subbing. Flamethrower for the STAB move, fire works better than the flying-type Air Slash. And Toxic is brilliant, especially for all the common water switch-ins expecting an offensive set.

Pressure aids stalling and is great if the opponent's best answer to Moltres is something carrying Stone Miss. 248 HP for an odd HP number, max speed and timid to be as fast as possible (didn't really need to say) and the final 8 in special attack for Flamethrower.

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Toxic
- Sucker Punch

If using Moltres then you always need a Rapid Spinner. Also the team as a whole is generally susceptible to hazards, so it's better with them gone. Close Combat for power and STAB, defence drops are annoying. Toxic for Ghosts and anything bulky coming in to tank Close Combat. Toxic also helps with the general nature of the team. Sucker Punch for Priority; it comes in handy more than you'd think.

Impish combines with Intimidate to make it a good Physical wall. 248 HP for an odd number again. A modest investment in Hitmontop's base 110 Special Defence ensures it's not going to waste, with the rest put in defence.

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 68 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

My general answer to disrupt full stall teams. Taunt any walls, also great against Defoggers. Will-O-Wisp for more stalling, and the common answers to Mismagius, looking to exploit her low defence stat. Pain Split for healing and more annoying, Shadow Ball so I can do some direct damage.

Once more, even HP numbers are bad, so it's 248 into health. The speed EV's make Missy faster than max speed base 90's (there are no base 95s commonly seen in RU, I think). Putting all the remaining EV's into Special Attack just for Shadow Ball seems wasteful, so I put a few in defence to get the stat up to 160.

Spiritomb @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Trick

Main priority user and revenge-killer. Infiltrator means we can even beat things apparently sitting pretty, hiding behind a substitute. It doesn't have the best attack stat at base 92, so Choice Band helps it hit harder, plus has surprise value. We have a choice (not sure if pun intended XD) between Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, depending on what's appropriate. Pursuit for anything switching out, realising they can't do anything against Spiritomb. Trick for crippling walls I guess. Sometimes I dislike all the prediction involved when using Spirtomb, with the moves I've given it.

Not going to explain the HP EV's again. Max attack is standard, 4 EVs in both defences as there are no download Pokemon in RU. Also this Pokemon hard counters Gallade, which appears on virtually every RU team at the minute

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Thanks for Reading, I'll put pictures in within the next 2 or 3 days, depending on how smashed I get on Monday night.

Quickest threat list ever: I've had problems with SD Doublade and LO Jolteon.

 

[Lemonade]

Hey man, wanted to quickly address SD Doublade, you could run Foul Play over Shadow Sneak (not a good move to be locked in to). Sucker Punch is generally all the priority you need. I also haven't found the power of CB to be all that useful, you could try Blackglasses with Will-O-Wisp over Taunt.

Also, Omastar with Scald generally works better since the burn chance is really nice. Ice Beam over EP is good too to smack Defoggers.

Anyway I'll get to a fuller rate tomorrow.

 

[GOthee]

Why not run Scpetile with more offensive moveset, i guess becasue this is a stall based team , howeber itf its stall i dont know why you run cb spiritomb, shoulnt it be better being defensive?

 

[Brap]

Why not run Scpetile with more offensive moveset, i guess becasue this is a stall based team , howeber itf its stall i dont know why you run cb spiritomb, shoulnt it be better being defensive?

Haha so please bare in mind this team was made at least 4 years ago. The name of the game is semi-stall. Basically it's meant to annoy the opponent to an extent, but it's not really slow and has a clear route to success.

Hidden in the team building section, sorry :P

And it's hard to get good coverage with Sceptile with a Grass + 1 other attacking move. The sp.atk drops of Leaf Storm really lessen its staying power too.

Cheers Lemonade, I'll try out the Omastar changes as soon as. And I'll play around with Spiritomb. :)

 

[atomicllamas]

Hey Brap, I'm on my phone so this is going to be pretty quick and poorly formatted, but there are a couple easy fixes that could help your team. First off, as this was originally a gen 4 team it is actually pretty bad at keeping spikes / SR on the field. Gligar, the most common defogger in the tier, is capable of defogging against Top, Tres, Tomb, and Sceptile, as lefties HP Ice fails to OHKO after SR. Golbat does the same (even easier) + it KOs Sceptile through Sub with Infiltrator Brave Bird. Golbat is also capable of toxicing Tres through its sub. I recommend using standard SpD Rhyperior (SR / Rock Blast / EQ / filler) over Omastar as it can more consistently set up rocks, beats Golbat, and gives you a response to Moltres and Jolteon. On top of this I recommend using Mega Sceptile over regular (hello?) as it can outspeed Jolteon, and isn't piss weak like lefties Sceptile. Obviously run Dragon Pulse over HP Ice and consider dropping Leech Seed for Focus Blast or HP Fire. Between Rhyp and Mega Tile you should be good vs Jolteon. On Hitmontop you should use Foresite over Sucker Punch as it actually allows you to spin reliably and helps fix your Doublade problem (also sucker punch sucks on Top cause it is so weak).

Also agree with Lemonade. on Tomb changes.

That's all I got for now, hope I helped.

 

[Brap]

Thanks for the rate atomic, but the thing with those changes is that it would completely change the playstyle of the team. I really don't want to lose Spikes. Without them Sceptile's and Moltres' job becomes even harder. With the Sceptile change you say (not much point as Mega-Sceptile will be banned soon), there wouldn't be much point in using SubRoost Moltres as it would look out of place.

It the opponent has a defogger in the TP, then I'll definitely think twice about getting more than Rocks up with Omastar, and I'll make getting rid of the defogger a top priority, so I really don't want to lose Spikes basically.

Sucker Punch does not suck on Hitmontop, far from it in fact. Not meaning to boast or sound nasty or anything, but I'm a decent enough player not to need Foresight in order to Rapid Spin. Sure it would fix my Doublade problem, but it would leave my with only Tomb for revenge killing, as it's not an overly fast team. More harm than good, it what I'm trying to get at here.

Sorry I was so brutal.

 

[atomicllamas]

Thanks for the rate atomic, but the thing with those changes is that it would completely change the playstyle of the team. I really don't want to lose Spikes. Without them Sceptile's and Moltres' job becomes even harder. With the Sceptile change you say (not much point as Mega-Sceptile will be banned soon), there wouldn't be much point in using SubRoost Moltres as it would look out of place.

It the opponent has a defogger in the TP, then I'll definitely think twice about getting more than Rocks up with Omastar, and I'll make getting rid of the defogger a top priority, so I really don't want to lose Spikes basically.

Sucker Punch does not suck on Hitmontop, far from it in fact. Not meaning to boast or sound nasty or anything, but I'm a decent enough player not to need Foresight in order to Rapid Spin. Sure it would fix my Doublade problem, but it would leave my with only Tomb for revenge killing, as it's not an overly fast team. More harm than good, it what I'm trying to get at here.

Sorry I was so brutal.

Okay, fair enough with Omastar, though if you are keeping it you really need to run ice beam so your team at least has some way of dealing with Golbat, and you need to play Omastar pretty carefully. The only reason I suggested the change to Rhyperior is that it addresses both of your weaknesses while (at least imo) fitting the team style better than Omastar did, as Hitmontop / Sub Toxic Moltres / Leech Sceptile with no SpA (or any Subtile really) / Wisp Split Mismagius reads more like a balance team than the common HO team Omastar would be on.

As for my suggestion about Mega-Sceptile, I really think you should take this. Aside from the fact that I am a part of the RU council, and that I can assure you that at the moment there are no plans to suspect Mega Sceptile (though it will potentially be leaving at the end of December by usage), there is literally no reason not to use Mega Sceptile right now, as you are rating your team for the current meta, not some unforeseen meta game that hasn't come to fruition. You complained that you were weak to LO Jolteon, and Mega Sceptile will help fix that problem by out speeding it (after mega evolving), as well as making it hard for it to just volt switch through the entirety of your team. Also I forgot to mention in my last post, I really think that max special attack is better than max HP on Sceptile, as Sceptile just is neither strong nor bulky with max HP, where as mega Sceptile is at least strong with max SpA (and it would fix your revenge killing problem with its 145 base Speed).

I know that I just said Sucker Punch sucks on Hitmontop last time with no explanation, but it is actually really just not all that effective in the current meta, and here is why. First off, and definitely most importantly, your moveset is literally incapable of touching Doublade, which, as you noted, is a huge threat to your team, as it is lured in by Hitmontop and proceeds to set up on it.

0 Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 54-64 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO (Close Combat does at least 37% and allows you to spin against this).

And while this is happening, Doublade can either set up SD, which allows it to avoid damage and it only needs 2 SD's to sweep through your entire team after Swords Dance, or it can spam Shadow Claw, which prevents Moltres from switching in after SR (in conjunction with Shadow Sneak). It is also incapable of touching Defensive Spiritomb sets which often run Rest (and Will-o-Wisp), and as you are carrying a Moltres, beating the two most common Spin Blockers in the tier is quite important.

I also am not quite sure what threats Hitmontop is revenge killing with an un-invested, non-STAB Sucker Punch, as it is really actually quite weak.

0 Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 136-162 (39.7 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 60-71 (18.6 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Hitmontop Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 70-83 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

I understand that you made this team in gen 4, and that's fine if you don't want to change anything to update the team, but why are you making a RMT if you aren't at least willing to at least take the suggestions that get your team to be optimal in the current meta game? Seems like kind of a waste of time to me e_e.

summary of suggestions

your Sceptile set to:

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Leech Seed / Focus Blast

--> Helps to fix Jolteon weakness, is a direct upgrade from regular Sceptile, and if you go with HP fire helps with Doublade problem


your Hitmontop set to:

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Foresight
- Close Combat
- Toxic

--> Helps fix Doublade weakness, is actually capable of spinning against the two most common ghosts in the tier

More optional but:
Omastar to:

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 232 HP / 16 Atk / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Roar

-->More reliable SR setter, Checks Doublade, Checks Jolteon, better answer to Moltres, gives your team a much better chance of beating Reuniclus / Cresselia / Sub CM Meloetta

again you don't have to make these changes, but understand that your team can be better than a straight up copy of a gen 4 team.

Anyways, I've said my piece, good luck w/ the team, and I hope you enjoy RU n_n