I personally don't feel that Regice is actually broken, and I've found that several of my own games are won without my Regice ever entering the field. Is that because my opponents are working too hard to counter it? Maybe; I dunno. It's also ridiculously fun to shut down my opponent's Regice easily. I find that the threat of Regice on both sides makes the meta fun. I've yet to run a team without Regice myself, maybe I should try it? Anywho, while I don't think Regice is actually broken, I also don't much care if it ends up gone. Not having Regice around just means I'm allowed to run defensive Pokémon that have an Ice weakness, so whatever lol.
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Stat Switch [Azumarill+Regice Banned]
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
Another perk about Regice is that it doesn't need to set up at all. This means it doesn't really care about switching should it run into a priority user and it 2HKOs and OHKOs the vast majority of the metagame with a Life Orb alone.
I've found Regice to be bearable, but I'm still in favor of a ban because it is so overcentralizing, can cause big damage and switch out whenever it wants, an outspeeds everything without a Choice Scarf or Mega stone. Even with the metagame so prepared for it, it still manages to be an S-rank threat in Stat Switch with only one set with only 5 moves used.
I've found Regice to be bearable, but I'm still in favor of a ban because it is so overcentralizing, can cause big damage and switch out whenever it wants, an outspeeds everything without a Choice Scarf or Mega stone. Even with the metagame so prepared for it, it still manages to be an S-rank threat in Stat Switch with only one set with only 5 moves used.
oh my good lucario with 115 defences
While I'm generally really conservative when it comes to bans, and truthfully I haven't had much difficulty dealing with Regice due to overpreparing for it, I think its power level is just too much for this metagame. It is kind of similar to offensive Deo-S in OU, except with 200 base atk and a much better STAB (not to mention it actually has higher speed too...).
Ice Punch is not better STAB, even if it's a more useful typing.
re Regice generally
My own experience with Regice -both using it and fighting it- is that it only fills two roles adequately well.
1: Suicide lead. It's actually not even that good at this role, and can be completely neutered in it.
1b: This, but switch out when possible and transition to 2.
2: Late game clean up, when half the enemy team has been KOed and the other half sufficiently dented Regice can OHKO the remainder. (And none of them have Vacuum Wave/a strong enough Vacuum Wave/other priority to actually KO Regice)
It is very good at the second role and the fact that it can act as an end-game win condition is excellent, but there are a number of viable teams -and I'm not talking specially prepared anti-Regice teams here- that can take on the rest of the team and be too threatening for Regice to ever safely switch in (Yes even on revenge switches), at which point Regice is a dead albatross around its team's neck.
I disagree strongly with describing it as broken, in short.
But if the general consensus is that it really is overcentralizing I won't argue it -it's very good.
And what about a set that comes in after a kill to threaten a KO, force a switch into a check, and wear down that check and just switch out again? None of it's answers can even switch in, which often means it can force a sacrifice EVERY time it's able to safely come in.
3. Speedy wallbreaker that can switch out at any time and clean if the situation allows for it.
Suicide lead is a waste of potential IMO and I've never even seen it used. Regice works best throughout the game IMO and should not be reserved for any specific portion. The fact that it causes so much damage throughout, is so speedy and can switch out anytime with little cost thanks to not having to boost pushes it over the line IMO. Again, I'm not sure if it should be banned as it has shown to be somewhat bearable but it's honestly a bit much too deal with. The metagame is already more prepared than it could ever be for Regice yet it's still wrecking havoc.
Greninja, while speed is low, may be able to sweep on Special attack, and attack and defense is high as well
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
How's this for a Regice counter:
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Bug Buzz / U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Roost
- Defog
Still has solid defenses, but loses its high attack and priority and has to resort to special attacks. It still retains decent STAB though.
0 SpA Technician Mega Scizor Hidden Power Steel vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 476-564 (131.4 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Regice Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 123-146 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Bug Buzz / U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Roost
- Defog
Still has solid defenses, but loses its high attack and priority and has to resort to special attacks. It still retains decent STAB though.
0 SpA Technician Mega Scizor Hidden Power Steel vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 476-564 (131.4 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Regice Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 123-146 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Yeah Scizor is definetly a good answer to Regice. Technician boosted Silver Wind should be run instead though (basically a Bug Buzz that can boost all stats), Technician boosted Vacuum Wave can also be used which I think is garunteed KO on Regice without being outsped, and Technician boosted HP of choice is soooo nice.
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Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Not always. For bulkier sets like this, Bug Buzz's higher PP is actually preferred over Silver Wind's boost chance.
better yet how about struggle bug it's really good on bulkier sets i use it alot
From what I know about showdown coding, it's the base stat that switch (and calcs confirm this from the damage things like Regice do with an attack investment.)
I found some interesting mons that people don't use much:
Swoobat is much bulkier with 67/114/114, can be run as a calm mind stored power sweeper.
Also there seams to be a bug with banette mega, instead of switching attack with HP it switches with defense and speed, giving it a awesome 64/75/165/93/83/165 spread. It is extremely sutable for calm mind.
Swellow's boomburst is pretty strong with 125 SpA, and 125 SpD is definitely very good. The problem is with 60 Def and 50 speed it can easily get revenge killed by physical attacker (which is more common than special attackers in this tier), and it can't do anything to rock types (it has no special attack that is not weak to rock unless you run hidden power).
Hydreigon now has 92/125/125 defense, and still hits quite hard with 105 attack thanks to its big physical movepool: Outrage, Crunch, Superpower, Aqua tail, Earthquake, Steel Wing, Zen Headbutt, U-turn, etc.
Parishu can now hit for some damage with 95 atk/spa if you want something cute :P Other viable cute pokemon include Wigglytuff which is much faster (with also higher SpD and lower HP)
Physical Yamega is also viable with not bad 76 attack, and with 86/86/116 defense it can either use a speed boost bulky set or a choice band tinted lens set.
Kingler is now 55/50/115/130/130/75, the problem is that it hasn't got many special attacks.
Swoobat is much bulkier with 67/114/114, can be run as a calm mind stored power sweeper.
Also there seams to be a bug with banette mega, instead of switching attack with HP it switches with defense and speed, giving it a awesome 64/75/165/93/83/165 spread. It is extremely sutable for calm mind.
Swellow's boomburst is pretty strong with 125 SpA, and 125 SpD is definitely very good. The problem is with 60 Def and 50 speed it can easily get revenge killed by physical attacker (which is more common than special attackers in this tier), and it can't do anything to rock types (it has no special attack that is not weak to rock unless you run hidden power).
Hydreigon now has 92/125/125 defense, and still hits quite hard with 105 attack thanks to its big physical movepool: Outrage, Crunch, Superpower, Aqua tail, Earthquake, Steel Wing, Zen Headbutt, U-turn, etc.
Parishu can now hit for some damage with 95 atk/spa if you want something cute :P Other viable cute pokemon include Wigglytuff which is much faster (with also higher SpD and lower HP)
Physical Yamega is also viable with not bad 76 attack, and with 86/86/116 defense it can either use a speed boost bulky set or a choice band tinted lens set.
Kingler is now 55/50/115/130/130/75, the problem is that it hasn't got many special attacks.
That's deliberate. All Megas ignore HP for swap purposes and inherit their base form. By a similar token Mega Houndoom has 140 Attack/Defense/Special Defense.
hanteng I just won a tourney with swoobat as my ace in the hole. It has a fancy niche with its now respectable bulk.
I can see why everyone is bellyaching about all the regis, but Breloom is the poke that I think deserves a closer look. Spore or at least the threat of spore causes crazy switches, 252+ SpA vacuum wave completely ruins regice and regirock, not to mention that giga drain and poison heal provide it freaky good recovery. In the final match the other guy was basically screwed when I pulled off a destiny bond to take down his breloom while mine was still alive and it was just easy pickings after that, since when i brought it back nothing could even touch it.
I can see why everyone is bellyaching about all the regis, but Breloom is the poke that I think deserves a closer look. Spore or at least the threat of spore causes crazy switches, 252+ SpA vacuum wave completely ruins regice and regirock, not to mention that giga drain and poison heal provide it freaky good recovery. In the final match the other guy was basically screwed when I pulled off a destiny bond to take down his breloom while mine was still alive and it was just easy pickings after that, since when i brought it back nothing could even touch it.
So I compiled all the changes to base stat totals in this metagame from regular play. I put them on a list, as you can see below. This list is meant to give you an idea of who gained the most from this metagame, and who lost the most (in terms of stats, anyways).
To give you an idea of how the list works: For example, Carbink has a BST of 500 in regular play, but in Stat Switch it has 700. So, Carbink is listed under 700, with (+200) next to it to show how much its stats improved overall.
Some comments on the list of stat changes:
As for some general comments on the metagame itself, I think Regice, Breloom, and Carbink are the most dominant pokemon right now. Regice is just ridiculously good and easily cleans up lategame. I find myself packing multiple checks to it just cause it's so threatening. Pretty much nothing can switch into it cause of its good coverage, and its high speed makes it hard to revenge too. Only faster scarfers can outspeed it, and even then you'll probably need to sac something to bring them in safely. Vacuum wave deals with Regice pretty handily, but of the two most common Vacuum Wave users, Scizor is the only one who can switch in safely. I think it you look back up at the stat list you can see the main reason for Regice's dominance. In terms of stats, it towers above most of the other Pokemon in the metagame. I'm really glad it's being suspected.
Breloom is really difficult to kill and has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, forcing you to play cautiously around it for fear of Spore. Things with Sub can turn it into setup fodder, depending on what attacks it's running. Talonflame is also really good in this meta for the mere purpose of beating Breloom, as it takes pitiable damage from it's attacks and can force Breloom out or greed in its face if it has a Sub. All in all, a bit more manageable than Regice.
As for Carbink, it's really good at getting rocks up at the start of a battle. In fact, I don't think there are any taunters faster than it besides Mega-Tyranitar and Mega-Banette, who need a turn to mega anyways and are threatened by Carbink's attacks. It's a really common lead that I'm seeing a bit too often.
I've been experimenting with various underutilized Pokemon on my teams. Some fun options I've been trying are Modest Sand Rush Excadrill, who has just enough speed to beat the Regis, but lacks any real steel coverage and struggles to break through the likes of Gengar. Archeops is a really bulky defogger with a bit of offensive presence, but I think I like Latios better. I cannot overemphasize how useful Latios is; with Thunder Wave, it can cripple stuff like Regice, Sylveon, Breloom on the switch-in, and most fast things. Assault Vest Gardevoir is another fun option: it lacks Fairy STAB, unfortunately, but Trace and its great bulk helps it serve as a pivot switch against the likes of Breloom. I tried a few other options as AV pivots, and I've found that Zangoose is probably my favourite, as it has the coverage to hit a lot of things and the bulk to beat them one-on-one. I tried using Serperior too, but it's mostly outclassed by Tangrowth. The main draw of using Serperior would have to be the higher Defense and access to Dragon Tail. I've also toyed with a few silly options to help beat Regice, such as Life Orb Agility Gliscor, who can OHKO it with an Earth Power or pivot out with Baton Pass on the switch, Scarf Doublade (which is way too frail but good for a quick d-bond), and the fabled Belly Drum Salac Snorlax, who is not getting many opportunities to set up with that 30/65/110 bulk.
All in all, this is one of the more fun Other Metas in a while. I encourage all of you to experiment with different options, since the meta's still fresh!
To give you an idea of how the list works: For example, Carbink has a BST of 500 in regular play, but in Stat Switch it has 700. So, Carbink is listed under 700, with (+200) next to it to show how much its stats improved overall.
Some comments on the list of stat changes:
-I included ubers (and Hoopa-U) as well to give you an idea of how high Blissey and the Regis stats are in comparison.
-I did not include Pokemon that have the same BST as in regular play.
-In terms of most improved stats, the winners would have to be Wobbuffet (who unfortunately can't use them), Chansey and Blissey, and Carbink. Honourable mentions go to Regirock and Regice, Breloom, and Poliwag, surprisingly enough.
-The biggest losers here would have to be Shuckle, Deoxys-D, Mega-Audino (who loses BST in both its regular and Mega form) and poor poor Registeel.
-Mega-Altaria has 5 BST more than regular Altaria.
-Donphan and Phanpy have the same BST.
-Poliwag has a higher BST than Poliwhirl. I'm proud.
-I did not include Pokemon that have the same BST as in regular play.
-In terms of most improved stats, the winners would have to be Wobbuffet (who unfortunately can't use them), Chansey and Blissey, and Carbink. Honourable mentions go to Regirock and Regice, Breloom, and Poliwag, surprisingly enough.
-The biggest losers here would have to be Shuckle, Deoxys-D, Mega-Audino (who loses BST in both its regular and Mega form) and poor poor Registeel.
-Mega-Altaria has 5 BST more than regular Altaria.
-Donphan and Phanpy have the same BST.
-Poliwag has a higher BST than Poliwhirl. I'm proud.
870: M-Mewtwo-X (+90)
860: Groudon-P (+90), Kyogre-P (+90)
785: Blissey (+245)
770: Hoopa-U (+90)
744: Ho-Oh (+64), Lugia (+64), Mewtwo (+64)
730: Regice (+150), Regirock (+150), Groudon (+60), Kyogre (+60)
719: Wobbuffet (+314)
710: M-Blaziken (+80)
700: Carbink (+200), M-Houndoom (+100)
695: Chansey (+245)
689: M-Pidgeot (+110)
670: M-Gengar (+70), M-Lucario (+45)
665: M-Charizard-Y (+31)
655: M-Absol, Salamence (+55)
652: Shaymin-Sky (+52)
650: Latias (+50), Latios (+50)
645: M-Venusaur (+20), M-Banette (+90)
644: Emboar (+116), Xerneas (-36), Yveltal (-36)
642: Archeops (+75)
635: Hydreigon (+35), Uxie (+55)
630: Zoroark (+120)
625: Wailord (+125)
620: M-Charizard-X (-14), Articuno (+40)
615: Lucario (+90)
610: Tangrowth (+75)
604: Serperior (+76)
600: Breloom (+140)
585: Arcanine (+30)
580: Blaziken (+50)
578: Honchkrow (+73), Gallade (+60), Gardevoir (+60)
575: Mienshao (+65)
571: Infernape (+37)
570: Gengar (+70)
568: Zangoose (+110)
566: Samurott (+38)
565: Charizard (+31), Typhlosion (+31)
560: Froslass (+80), Dodrio (+100), Flygon (+40)
555: Kingler (+80)
552: Golurk (+69)
551: Genesect (-49)
550: Zebstrika (+53)
548: Durant (+64)
540: Entei (-40), Suicune (-40), Raikou (-40), Sharpedo (+80), Ludicolo (+60)
536: Simipour (+38), Simisear (+38), Simisage (+38)
535: Absol (+70)
533: Crawdaunt (+65)
531: Toxicroak (+41)
530: M-Altaria (-60), Mesprit (-50), Wigglytuff (+95)
527: Lanturn (+67)
525: Altaria (+35), Cinccino (+55), Dewgong (+50), M-Kangaskhan (-65)
520: Galvantula (+48), Shiftry (+40)
515: Jumpluff (+55), M-Manectric (-60), M-Mawile (+35)
510: Pidgeot (+31)
508: Swanna (+35)
505: M-Sableye (+25), Swellow (+75)
504: Lumineon (+44)
502: Liepard (+56)
496: Sudowoodo (+86)
495: Wailmer (+95)
494: Pignite (+76)
492: Noctowl (+50), M-Abomasnow (-102)
490: Deoxys-D (-110)
485: Rotom (+45)
484: Swoobat (+59)
481: Fearow (+39)
480: Registeel (-100), Nosepass (+105), Kingdra (-60)
478: Ninetales (-27)
477: Seaking (+27)
475: Haunter (+70)
470: Gurdurr (+65), Shelgon (+50), Togetic (+65)
468: Archen (+67)
463: Rotom-A (-57)
462: Abomasnow (-32)
459: Dewott (+46), Servine (+46)
455: Pachirisu (+50)
450: Medicham (+40), Mightyena (+30), Poliwag (+150)
445: Beautifly (+50), Watchog (+25), Cranidos (+95)
436: Masquerain (+22)
434: Monferno (+29)
430: Donphan (-70), Phanpy (+100)
425: Dustox (+40), Poliwhirl (+40), Krokorok (+74)
424: Heliolisk (-57)
420: Octillery (-60), Omanyte (+65), Venomoth (-30)
418: Scrafty (-70), Kricketune (+34)
417: Bronzong (-83)
416: M-Audino (-129)
415: Cacturne (-60), Vigoroth (-25)
412: Spiritomb (-73), Vespiquen (-62)
410: Doduo (+100), Zorua (+80)
406: Tyrunt (+44)
405: Krabby (+80)
404: Palpitoad (+20), Wynaut (+144)
401: Loudred (+41)
400: Piloswine (-50)
395: Machop (+90)
391: Buneary (+41)
390: Delibird (+60), Seadra (-50)
384: Unown (+48)
383: Wartortle (-22)
382: Nidorino (+17)
380: Lombre (+40), Nidorina (+15), Vibrava (+40), Gastly (+70), Taillow (+110), Wingull (+110)
378: Luxio (+15)
375: Combusken (-30), Skiploom (+35), Staravia (+35), Bonsly (+85), Dwebble (+50), Seel (+50)
370: Pidgeotto (+21), Minccino (+70)
368: Tepig (+60)
366: Sandile (+74)
365: Wormadam-T (-59), Jigglypuff (+95), Cubchoo (+60), Exeggcute (+40)
364: Finneon (+34)
362: Stunky (+33)
360: Baltoy (+60)
358: Yamask (+55)
353: Corphish (+45), Ducklett (+18), Glameow (+43), Shellos (+28)
350: Mankey (+45)
348: Golett (+39)
348: Oshawott (+36)
345: Swablu (+35)
344: Snivy (+36)
343: Chimchar (+34)
342: Woobat (+29)
332: Pansage (+16), Pansear (+16), Panpour (+16)
330: Corsola (-50)
329: Fennekin (+22)
326: Nincada (+60)
325: Growlithe (-25)
324: Combee (+80)
323: Blitzle (+28)
320: Electrike (+25)
318: Tympole (+24)
315: Happiny (+95)
312: Snover (-22)
310: Purrloin (+29)
308: Kirlia (+30)
307: Nidoran-M (+34)
305: Smeargle (+55), Starly (+60)
302: Cherubi (+27)
300: Marill (+50), Meditite (+20)
294: Shinx (+31)
292: Hoothoot (+30)
290: Hoppip (+40), Natu (-30), Nidoran-F (+15)
289: Venipede (+29)
285: Cacnea (-50), Grimer (-40), Igglybuff (+75)
281: Whismur (+40)
280: Shuckle (-225)
274: Vulpix (-25)
272: Pidgey (+21)
270: Zigzagoon (+30)
265: Horsea (-30)
260: Lotad (+40), Seedot (+40)
255: Kakuna (+50)
250: Azurill (+60)
245: Poochyena (+20), Shroomish (-50)
237: Bronzor (-63)
230: Skrelp (-90), Swinub (-20)
225: Duskull (-70), Weedle (+30)
220: Slakoth (-60)
218: Ralts (+20)
210: Kricketot (+16)
860: Groudon-P (+90), Kyogre-P (+90)
785: Blissey (+245)
770: Hoopa-U (+90)
744: Ho-Oh (+64), Lugia (+64), Mewtwo (+64)
730: Regice (+150), Regirock (+150), Groudon (+60), Kyogre (+60)
719: Wobbuffet (+314)
710: M-Blaziken (+80)
700: Carbink (+200), M-Houndoom (+100)
695: Chansey (+245)
689: M-Pidgeot (+110)
670: M-Gengar (+70), M-Lucario (+45)
665: M-Charizard-Y (+31)
655: M-Absol, Salamence (+55)
652: Shaymin-Sky (+52)
650: Latias (+50), Latios (+50)
645: M-Venusaur (+20), M-Banette (+90)
644: Emboar (+116), Xerneas (-36), Yveltal (-36)
642: Archeops (+75)
635: Hydreigon (+35), Uxie (+55)
630: Zoroark (+120)
625: Wailord (+125)
620: M-Charizard-X (-14), Articuno (+40)
615: Lucario (+90)
610: Tangrowth (+75)
604: Serperior (+76)
600: Breloom (+140)
585: Arcanine (+30)
580: Blaziken (+50)
578: Honchkrow (+73), Gallade (+60), Gardevoir (+60)
575: Mienshao (+65)
571: Infernape (+37)
570: Gengar (+70)
568: Zangoose (+110)
566: Samurott (+38)
565: Charizard (+31), Typhlosion (+31)
560: Froslass (+80), Dodrio (+100), Flygon (+40)
555: Kingler (+80)
552: Golurk (+69)
551: Genesect (-49)
550: Zebstrika (+53)
548: Durant (+64)
540: Entei (-40), Suicune (-40), Raikou (-40), Sharpedo (+80), Ludicolo (+60)
536: Simipour (+38), Simisear (+38), Simisage (+38)
535: Absol (+70)
533: Crawdaunt (+65)
531: Toxicroak (+41)
530: M-Altaria (-60), Mesprit (-50), Wigglytuff (+95)
527: Lanturn (+67)
525: Altaria (+35), Cinccino (+55), Dewgong (+50), M-Kangaskhan (-65)
520: Galvantula (+48), Shiftry (+40)
515: Jumpluff (+55), M-Manectric (-60), M-Mawile (+35)
510: Pidgeot (+31)
508: Swanna (+35)
505: M-Sableye (+25), Swellow (+75)
504: Lumineon (+44)
502: Liepard (+56)
496: Sudowoodo (+86)
495: Wailmer (+95)
494: Pignite (+76)
492: Noctowl (+50), M-Abomasnow (-102)
490: Deoxys-D (-110)
485: Rotom (+45)
484: Swoobat (+59)
481: Fearow (+39)
480: Registeel (-100), Nosepass (+105), Kingdra (-60)
478: Ninetales (-27)
477: Seaking (+27)
475: Haunter (+70)
470: Gurdurr (+65), Shelgon (+50), Togetic (+65)
468: Archen (+67)
463: Rotom-A (-57)
462: Abomasnow (-32)
459: Dewott (+46), Servine (+46)
455: Pachirisu (+50)
450: Medicham (+40), Mightyena (+30), Poliwag (+150)
445: Beautifly (+50), Watchog (+25), Cranidos (+95)
436: Masquerain (+22)
434: Monferno (+29)
430: Donphan (-70), Phanpy (+100)
425: Dustox (+40), Poliwhirl (+40), Krokorok (+74)
424: Heliolisk (-57)
420: Octillery (-60), Omanyte (+65), Venomoth (-30)
418: Scrafty (-70), Kricketune (+34)
417: Bronzong (-83)
416: M-Audino (-129)
415: Cacturne (-60), Vigoroth (-25)
412: Spiritomb (-73), Vespiquen (-62)
410: Doduo (+100), Zorua (+80)
406: Tyrunt (+44)
405: Krabby (+80)
404: Palpitoad (+20), Wynaut (+144)
401: Loudred (+41)
400: Piloswine (-50)
395: Machop (+90)
391: Buneary (+41)
390: Delibird (+60), Seadra (-50)
384: Unown (+48)
383: Wartortle (-22)
382: Nidorino (+17)
380: Lombre (+40), Nidorina (+15), Vibrava (+40), Gastly (+70), Taillow (+110), Wingull (+110)
378: Luxio (+15)
375: Combusken (-30), Skiploom (+35), Staravia (+35), Bonsly (+85), Dwebble (+50), Seel (+50)
370: Pidgeotto (+21), Minccino (+70)
368: Tepig (+60)
366: Sandile (+74)
365: Wormadam-T (-59), Jigglypuff (+95), Cubchoo (+60), Exeggcute (+40)
364: Finneon (+34)
362: Stunky (+33)
360: Baltoy (+60)
358: Yamask (+55)
353: Corphish (+45), Ducklett (+18), Glameow (+43), Shellos (+28)
350: Mankey (+45)
348: Golett (+39)
348: Oshawott (+36)
345: Swablu (+35)
344: Snivy (+36)
343: Chimchar (+34)
342: Woobat (+29)
332: Pansage (+16), Pansear (+16), Panpour (+16)
330: Corsola (-50)
329: Fennekin (+22)
326: Nincada (+60)
325: Growlithe (-25)
324: Combee (+80)
323: Blitzle (+28)
320: Electrike (+25)
318: Tympole (+24)
315: Happiny (+95)
312: Snover (-22)
310: Purrloin (+29)
308: Kirlia (+30)
307: Nidoran-M (+34)
305: Smeargle (+55), Starly (+60)
302: Cherubi (+27)
300: Marill (+50), Meditite (+20)
294: Shinx (+31)
292: Hoothoot (+30)
290: Hoppip (+40), Natu (-30), Nidoran-F (+15)
289: Venipede (+29)
285: Cacnea (-50), Grimer (-40), Igglybuff (+75)
281: Whismur (+40)
280: Shuckle (-225)
274: Vulpix (-25)
272: Pidgey (+21)
270: Zigzagoon (+30)
265: Horsea (-30)
260: Lotad (+40), Seedot (+40)
255: Kakuna (+50)
250: Azurill (+60)
245: Poochyena (+20), Shroomish (-50)
237: Bronzor (-63)
230: Skrelp (-90), Swinub (-20)
225: Duskull (-70), Weedle (+30)
220: Slakoth (-60)
218: Ralts (+20)
210: Kricketot (+16)
As for some general comments on the metagame itself, I think Regice, Breloom, and Carbink are the most dominant pokemon right now. Regice is just ridiculously good and easily cleans up lategame. I find myself packing multiple checks to it just cause it's so threatening. Pretty much nothing can switch into it cause of its good coverage, and its high speed makes it hard to revenge too. Only faster scarfers can outspeed it, and even then you'll probably need to sac something to bring them in safely. Vacuum wave deals with Regice pretty handily, but of the two most common Vacuum Wave users, Scizor is the only one who can switch in safely. I think it you look back up at the stat list you can see the main reason for Regice's dominance. In terms of stats, it towers above most of the other Pokemon in the metagame. I'm really glad it's being suspected.
Breloom is really difficult to kill and has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, forcing you to play cautiously around it for fear of Spore. Things with Sub can turn it into setup fodder, depending on what attacks it's running. Talonflame is also really good in this meta for the mere purpose of beating Breloom, as it takes pitiable damage from it's attacks and can force Breloom out or greed in its face if it has a Sub. All in all, a bit more manageable than Regice.
As for Carbink, it's really good at getting rocks up at the start of a battle. In fact, I don't think there are any taunters faster than it besides Mega-Tyranitar and Mega-Banette, who need a turn to mega anyways and are threatened by Carbink's attacks. It's a really common lead that I'm seeing a bit too often.
I've been experimenting with various underutilized Pokemon on my teams. Some fun options I've been trying are Modest Sand Rush Excadrill, who has just enough speed to beat the Regis, but lacks any real steel coverage and struggles to break through the likes of Gengar. Archeops is a really bulky defogger with a bit of offensive presence, but I think I like Latios better. I cannot overemphasize how useful Latios is; with Thunder Wave, it can cripple stuff like Regice, Sylveon, Breloom on the switch-in, and most fast things. Assault Vest Gardevoir is another fun option: it lacks Fairy STAB, unfortunately, but Trace and its great bulk helps it serve as a pivot switch against the likes of Breloom. I tried a few other options as AV pivots, and I've found that Zangoose is probably my favourite, as it has the coverage to hit a lot of things and the bulk to beat them one-on-one. I tried using Serperior too, but it's mostly outclassed by Tangrowth. The main draw of using Serperior would have to be the higher Defense and access to Dragon Tail. I've also toyed with a few silly options to help beat Regice, such as Life Orb Agility Gliscor, who can OHKO it with an Earth Power or pivot out with Baton Pass on the switch, Scarf Doublade (which is way too frail but good for a quick d-bond), and the fabled Belly Drum Salac Snorlax, who is not getting many opportunities to set up with that 30/65/110 bulk.
All in all, this is one of the more fun Other Metas in a while. I encourage all of you to experiment with different options, since the meta's still fresh!
I really like Haunter for this meta. 115/115 physical bulk backed up by Eviolite is nothing to laugh at. Heck, Adamant LO Regice's Ice Punch closely fails to 3HKO after Stealth Rock damage, assuming Haunter runs maximum physical defensive investment:
252+ Atk Life Orb Regice Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Haunter: 107-126 (24.6 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
It also can carry Will-o-Wisp, increasing its physical durability even further and scaring Regice off the field.
Haunter's downsides are obviously the weakness to Knock off and not having reliable recovery besides Pain Split. Also it's really passive since its Special Attack is pretty low now. (at least it isn't horribly slow and can Taunt things, I guess...)
Speaking of Recovery, how viable is Wish passing here? Most Wishers got their HP cut or didn't even have much to begin with. Although (Mega-)Latias could pull that off with now 130 base HP.
252+ Atk Life Orb Regice Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Haunter: 107-126 (24.6 - 29%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
It also can carry Will-o-Wisp, increasing its physical durability even further and scaring Regice off the field.
Haunter's downsides are obviously the weakness to Knock off and not having reliable recovery besides Pain Split. Also it's really passive since its Special Attack is pretty low now. (at least it isn't horribly slow and can Taunt things, I guess...)
Speaking of Recovery, how viable is Wish passing here? Most Wishers got their HP cut or didn't even have much to begin with. Although (Mega-)Latias could pull that off with now 130 base HP.
There is at least one Taunter faster than Carbink:
Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Roar/Dragon Tail/Explosion
There's probably a lot of room for improvement for this set, but the basic idea is the same: prevent hazards, lay your own rocks, and try to deal some damage before you die. Leftovers prevents chip damage from breaking Sturdy, but you can run Focus Sash with Sheer Force as your ability for a bit more damage. EV spread is to grab speed ties against other base 200 leads while doing as much damage as possible. You can run a bulkier spread with 100 Spe to creep sweeper Regice, but you give up ties and 75/30/65 isn't surviving much even with some investment. The last slot is preference, whether you want to try to phaze or just make a nice dent when Steelix goes down.
Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Roar/Dragon Tail/Explosion
There's probably a lot of room for improvement for this set, but the basic idea is the same: prevent hazards, lay your own rocks, and try to deal some damage before you die. Leftovers prevents chip damage from breaking Sturdy, but you can run Focus Sash with Sheer Force as your ability for a bit more damage. EV spread is to grab speed ties against other base 200 leads while doing as much damage as possible. You can run a bulkier spread with 100 Spe to creep sweeper Regice, but you give up ties and 75/30/65 isn't surviving much even with some investment. The last slot is preference, whether you want to try to phaze or just make a nice dent when Steelix goes down.
Why even mention Nidoqueen, seems pretty awful to me.
I too feel like Breloom might need a look at this point. There are counters, such as Talonflame, but once its counters are gone or so weak it can Vacuum Wave them out of existence or in a position to be Spored and then taken down, it is alarmingly capable of sweeping entire teams, with it being alarmingly difficult to actually take it down between its combination of astonishing bulk and Poison Heal. You basically have to be a hard hitting Physical attacker either hitting on its double weakness to Flying or have even more Attack while picking on some other weakness -I have literally never seen any Special attack OHKO Breloom from a dead start, even when it's stuff like Mega Scizor using its 150 Special Attack and Technician boost with Hidden Power Flying! Meanwhile it can use Protect to stall for health, tank an alarming number of Special attacks generally, and then hit back for plenty good damage -and finish you off with Vacuum Wave, so that for instance Carbink 2HKOing it with Moon Blast only means Breloom cannot 100% safely switch in except as a revenge switch. On a revenge switch, Carbink removes 60-70% of Breloom's health, survives an Energy Ball or a Giga Drain (Undoing most of its work right there!) via Sturdy, and then Breloom Vacuum Waves it to be done with it.
I feel this is particularly important if people push for Regice to be banned -Regice is one of a very small number of reliable counters to Breloom, able to OHKO it with Ice Punch every time, and by far the most widely useful one. (Mega Charizard Y OHKOs with a Flare Blitz, but that double weakness to Stealth Rock among other issues is going to reduce its popularity) So a meta in which Regice is banned may well be a meta in which Breloom must be banned.
I feel this is particularly important if people push for Regice to be banned -Regice is one of a very small number of reliable counters to Breloom, able to OHKO it with Ice Punch every time, and by far the most widely useful one. (Mega Charizard Y OHKOs with a Flare Blitz, but that double weakness to Stealth Rock among other issues is going to reduce its popularity) So a meta in which Regice is banned may well be a meta in which Breloom must be banned.
Yes, and breloom can also run a stall leech seed set very effectively with 252 HP and 252 Def.