Pokémon Dragalge

[deluge]

It's a bit of a cliche to suggest TR for anything that's slow and powerful but with Dragalge' ability to demolish the tier with basically a single move (as shown in Yamborski's post) I couldn't resist mentioning it.
Dragalge would be absolutely terrifying to face with the speed tiers inverted so that it goes first with its base 44 speed .
As luck would have it a number of TR setters are bulky Psychic types (some even with Levitate) which synergizes excellently with Dragalge's typing.
However, Draco Meteor's SpA drop is not conducive to a sweep (Venoshock on poisoned foes is just as powerful but that would require maintenance of Toxic Spikes).

Adaptability automatically makes it an interesting Pokemon even if it is unused in OU.
Toxic Spikes is the least popular hazard but is there a better setter in the game now?
Draco Meteor/Poison Attack makes Dragalge so threatening that opponents will not be thinking about switching in something to block hazards.

 

[megacyber]

As cool as drag is, I don't really think it's all that viable in OU rn. It doesn't really check too much stuff, though it admittedly checks some really solid mons like Char Y, Keldeo as well as most other waters, and all the electric types. Problem is, with ORAS, char y and keldeo aren't as good as they used to be due to meta shifts. In addition, when you would switch in dragalge into an electric type, more often than not the electric type will simply volt switch out into something faster than dragalge with earthquake. Tbh, I don't really think it's worth using over latios or latias.

 

[TheMohZone]

Dragalgae has one purpose in this life. Get in, nuke something with a Draco/Sludge Bomb/Wave and get out immediately. it does it well too, as long as you get rid of Steels. that said a Physical threats especially those that Carry EQ and Ice Shard, which is alot, murder it. its also slow as balls

it has a niche, a special Dragon fairys don't laugh their asses off at, but thats all its got.

 

[Jaroda]

As far as a TR core is concerned, how about Dragalge/Mega Camerupt/Bronzong?

Bronzong is a good choice to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock and takes Ground and Dragon attacks. Meanwhile Mega Camerupt with STAB Fire and Ground just demolishes every Steel in the tier while Dragalge can spam his STABs on everything else.

 

[Kurona]

As far as a TR core is concerned, how about Dragalge/Mega Camerupt/Bronzong?

Bronzong is a good choice to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock and takes Ground and Dragon attacks. Meanwhile Mega Camerupt with STAB Fire and Ground just demolishes every Steel in the tier while Dragalge can spam his STABs on everything else.

The one problem I see with that is special walls playing around with you easily; but I must admit Mega Camerupt is... ridiculously tempting here.

 

[Hoole]

As far as a TR core is concerned, how about Dragalge/Mega Camerupt/Bronzong?

Bronzong is a good choice to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock and takes Ground and Dragon attacks. Meanwhile Mega Camerupt with STAB Fire and Ground just demolishes every Steel in the tier while Dragalge can spam his STABs on everything else.

Would Crawdaunt fit in that core?

 

[Jaroda]

The only real problem would be Chansey, and there's still three slots to handle that. Really not hard to trap with Goth for example at least. It'll get worn down pretty quickly, plus Bronzong and Dragalged can't be Toxiced, and Camerupt can't be Thunder Waved. What other specially bulky pokemon are there really that aren't wrecked by those four STABs? Mega Latias is super bulky but is wrecked by Dragalge.

Would Crawdaunt fit in that core?

Offensively perhaps, simply as a physical threat, especially with Knock Off for Chansey, but type wise there is no particularly important synergy not covered.

 

[Jojobobo]

How would Dragon Pulse work in the place of Draco Meteor for a TR sweeper? Do you lose a significant number of KOs? Reason being Draco Meteor + Choice Specs wouldn't make for a very sustainable sweep on a TR team - which is usually desirable.

 

[pika pal]

Offensively perhaps, simply as a physical threat, especially with Knock Off for Chansey, but type wise there is no particularly important synergy not covered.

I'd say Knock Off support for Chansey would be important for such a core. The sheer difference in bulk it makes can make a hell of a difference in how worn down it has to be

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 380-447 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 234-278 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

After Chansey loses its Eviolite, Crawdaunt can threaten to pick off its remaining health, so it either gets sacked or forced out. With ~60% of its health gone, though, it can't stop Drag or Camerupt anymore, though the latter needs at least one round of Rock damage in case of low damage rolls.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 292-344 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 211-250 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

Looking specifically at Drag, though Azumarill might also make an interesting partner. Azumarill appreciates Drag absorbing the Grass, Electric, and Poison moves aimed at it, while Azu in turn switches into Ice or Dragon attacks. Azumarill takes advantage of the holes punched with Aqua Jet, or can run Knock Off/Superpower to deal with Pokemon Drag can't punch through otherwise.

These two have trouble with bulky Steels, so a good third might be either Scarf Lando-T, which brings a U-Turn for Drag, Intimidate to cushion Drag's weaker Physical Def, a Ground immunity, and another Electric immunity.

 

[farranpoison]

So is there any point in running Speed EVs on a Modest Dragalge?

Or can I just go 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD?

 

[Karxrida]

So is there any point in running Speed EVs on a Modest Dragalge?

Or can I just go 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD?

Enough to speed creep uninvested Clefable (132 EVs) so you can beat CM variants.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

EDIT: If you're running HP Fire you'll need 136 due to losing the Speed IV.

Also, this is the correct calc (as in 30 SpA IV).

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 332-392 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[UnicornDemon2]

As far as a TR core is concerned, how about Dragalge/Mega Camerupt/Bronzong?

Bronzong is a good choice to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock and takes Ground and Dragon attacks. Meanwhile Mega Camerupt with STAB Fire and Ground just demolishes every Steel in the tier while Dragalge can spam his STABs on everything else.

OMG I'm loving this core. Not in OU, though. The core is nigh unstoppable in UU apart from dedicated special walls like Umbreon and Blissey, which are totes set up bait for Pokemon like Toxicroak or Lucario. Thank you for your brilliance!

 

[BlueLobster]

Dragalge has nothing over Goodra except poison STAB, 20 higher base Def and adaptability. It's defence still isn't noteworthy, but it is a better nuke that Goodra. Dragalge needs one of the following to be extremely effective:

Trick room: Base 44 speed and great S.Atk with adaptability and specs, meaning it can't obtain a full sweep as it needs to switch out for specs purposes, works great with TR so you can set it before coming in again.

Wish Passing: No recovery, almist non existent speed and good bulk, wish passing is the easiest way to get it in and destroy something.

Slow VoltTurn: Allows it to avoid switch in damage.

I can see it be a decent wallbreaker, but it has little capability without support so it isn't 2HKOed by anything it switches into before it can defeat it or force a switch.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Dragalge has nothing over Goodra except poison STAB, 20 higher base Def and adaptability. It's defence still isn't noteworthy, but it is a better nuke that Goodra. Dragalge needs one of the following to be extremely effective:

Trick room: Base 44 speed and great S.Atk with adaptability and specs, meaning it can't obtain a full sweep as it needs to switch out for specs purposes, works great with TR so you can set it before coming in again.

Wish Passing: No recovery, almist non existent speed and good bulk, wish passing is the easiest way to get it in and destroy something.

Slow VoltTurn: Allows it to avoid switch in damage.

I can see it be a decent wallbreaker, but it has little capability without support so it isn't 2HKOed by anything it switches into before it can defeat it or force a switch.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Dragalge has a nice typing and actually really solid special bulk. What sets it apart from other wallbreakers like Crawdaunt is its ability to actually switch in on Pokemon. Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, Rotom-W, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Clefable, and Thundurus are all Pokemon that give Dragalge switch in opportunity, and as we all know, if Dragalge gets it, something is pretty much guaranteed to get hurt.

Don't get me wrong, Trick Room and Wish support are all really great, but I don't think they're compulsory at all. Dragalge can easily be used as a defensive check to various mons and a special nuke.

Dragalge has nothing over Goodra except poison STAB and adaptability.

Also this is a bit of an understatement; Poison STAB and adaptability are what makes it actually good. It hits harder than Goodra + has arguably more switch-in opportunities thanks to its secondary typing. I'd personally use Dragalge over Goodra, but I'm definitely biased, so...

 

[TheTtarManCan]

As far as a TR core is concerned, how about Dragalge/Mega Camerupt/Bronzong?

Bronzong is a good choice to set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock and takes Ground and Dragon attacks. Meanwhile Mega Camerupt with STAB Fire and Ground just demolishes every Steel in the tier while Dragalge can spam his STABs on everything else.

I personally would not run more than one special offense pokemon on a Trick Room team. TR normally use physical sweepers since it only takes a pink blob to stop your special pokemon cold and ruin your TR. With that said I do believe that Dragalge would work fine in TR, but two special attackers would just be too much imho.

 

[BlueLobster]

Don't get me wrong, Trick Room and Wish support are all really great, but I don't think they're compulsory at all. Dragalge can easily be used as a defensive check to various mons and a special nuke.


Also this is a bit of an understatement; Poison STAB and adaptability are what makes it actually good. It hits harder than Goodra + has arguably more switch-in opportunities thanks to its secondary typing. I'd personally use Dragalge over Goodra, but I'm definitely biased, so...

I'd never use Dragalge without wish support as it needs to switch in many times and will gradually get worn down. It's outspeeding nothing as well, so can't switch in to SR and a hit more than twice, really (2 lots of SR takes 25/ of it's damage and it has to take 2 hits on the switch, if they do 20/ each that's 65/ of it's health gone already). That means it's only going to take out 2 'mons before it goes down unless you come in on a toxic/setup move/revovery move etc. It really needs wish support or TR.

My point about Dragalge V Goodra was just showing that, other than hitting grass and fairy types SE and a better offensive ability, it doesn't have a reason to be used over Goodra. That was mostly for teams wanting special walls.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I'd never use Dragalge without wish support as it needs to switch in many times and will gradually get worn down. It's outspeeding nothing as well, so can't switch in to SR and a hit more than twice, really (2 lots of SR takes 25/ of it's damage and it has to take 2 hits on the switch, if they do 20/ each that's 65/ of it's health gone already). That means it's only going to take out 2 'mons before it goes down unless you come in on a toxic/setup move/revovery move etc. It really needs wish support or TR.

My point about Dragalge V Goodra was just showing that, other than hitting grass and fairy types SE and a better offensive ability, it doesn't have a reason to be used over Goodra. That was mostly for teams wanting special walls.

Then again though, Dragalge's purpose is to get in a few KO's per game, not really to sweep teams. Its main job is to come in and then bomb something with Draco Meteor. And it's good at that job. As Aragorn said, Dragalge actually does get quite a few switch-in opportunities into stuff like Keldeo, Thundurus, Electric-types, Mega Charizard Y, etc. And from there, Dragalge can get a KO for free, and then switch. It doesn't need Wish support because it's not meant to wall those mons. Alge is a wallbreaker, and uses switch-in opportunities to get a chance to bomb things, and that's also what separates it from the other Adaptability wallbreaker, Crawdaunt, who has virtually no switch-in opportunities and is also quite slow like Dragalge. And it doesn't need TR because it's bulk is passable and it has a nice set of resistances to come in on stuff, force them out, and then bomb something. Then it switches.

And comparing Dragalge to Goodra is a little unfair because the two play somewhat differently. Dragalge is a wallbreaker that uses its sheer power to just nuke the hell out of everything. Goodra is a tank that is meant to be able to wall stuff and then use its good coverage to give a respectable punch. They are rather similar stat wise, but their similarities start and end with their ability to use their Dragon-type resistances and being specially oriented dragons. Don't get me wrong, I like Goodra, but to be quite fair their approach to how to play otherwise is different.

 

[BlueLobster]

Also the fighting and grass resists brought by it's poison type aren't relevant, as the only fighting attack it's going to switch into is focus blast and dragon already resists grass. I will admit the fairy resist is extremely helpful, but 3 useful resists and 2 weaknesses are added defensively from the poison typing, and one of the resists only makes a neutral hit, so not really a switch in oppertunity.

I know Dragalge is only meant to come in and destroy 1-2 mons, but if you mispredict twice and don''t have wish, it's a dead weight.

 

[Karxrida]

Also the fighting and grass resists brought by it's poison type aren't relevant, as the only fighting attack it's going to switch into is focus blast and dragon already resists grass. I will admit the fairy resist is extremely helpful, but 3 useful resists and 2 weaknesses are added defensively from the poison typing, and one of the resists only makes a neutral hit, so not really a switch in oppertunity.

I know Dragalge is only meant to come in and destroy 1-2 mons, but if you mispredict twice and don''t have wish, it's a dead weight.

A Fighting resist lets it switch into Keldeo, which is a pretty big deal. Grass resist isn't huge but helps it deal with Breloom/Mega Venusaur after Sleep Clause and troll Chesnaught with Sludge Wave.

Also Aragorn the King, you are so totally biased. :P

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I know Dragalge is only meant to come in and destroy 1-2 mons, but if you mispredict twice and don''t have wish, it's a dead weight.

"If you play badly it won't be very good" okay then.

Also the fighting resist is handy for Keldeo's Secret Sword

There's also not terribly a lot of room to mispredict against stuff like Mega Manectric who simply aren't able to do much damage to Dragalgae.

 

[BlueLobster]

A Fighting resist lets it switch into Keldeo, which is a pretty big deal. Grass resist isn't huge but helps it deal with Breloom/Mega Venusaur after Sleep Clause and troll Chesnaught with Sludge Wave.

Also Aragorn the King, you are so totally biased. :P

Yeah, Keldeo's big but it already had a grass resist with dragon typing, so that's not important as it vould already switch in to grass attacks.

"If you play badly it won't be very good" okay then.

Also the fighting resist is handy for Keldeo's Secret Sword

There's also not terribly a lot of room to mispredict against stuff like Mega Manectric who simply aren't able to do much damage to Dragalgae.

You are completely wrong there. 2 M.Manetric HP Ices do up to 82/ to an uninvested Dragalge (Which was the standard specs set on the calc) and if it saves itself and volt switches out, that does up to 50/. If it then goes to a fairy type and you draco meteored, as that's the only move that guarantees a OHKO on Manetric, you're forced out. If you try to predict going to a fairy and it HP Ices again and you sludge bombed, you have to rely on your luck to get a OHKO.

In short, a standard M.Manetric can hurt you more than you think, you proved me right about how easy it is to mispredict.

 

[dinotrek27]

You are completely wrong there. 2 M.Manetric HP Ices do up to 82/ to an uninvested Dragalge (Which was the standard specs set on the calc) and if it saves itself and volt switches out, that does up to 50/. If it then goes to a fairy type and you draco meteored, as that's the only move that guarantees a OHKO on Manetric, you're forced out. If you try to predict going to a fairy and it HP Ices again and you sludge bombed, you have to rely on your luck to get a OHKO.

In short, a standard M.Manetric can hurt you more than you think, you proved me right about how easy it is to mispredict.

Firstly, Sludge Wave > Sludge Bomb
Secondly, with MegaMane being a pivot that is neutral to stealth Rock with no recovery, it would likely have taken more than enough chip damage to put it within KO range of a sludge wave although I am quite sure it will kill from full.
I think Dragalge is not exactly a mon you build around, but rather something you add to cover in a few holes in your team. For example, you want a dragon type nuke (almost a must for most teams), but you do not want to add a fairy and pursuit weakness, use Dragalge. If you want something that can lure in and burn stuff like MegaZor or steels in general with scald while still maintaining offensive pressure, use Dragalge. If you need a special attacker to lure in and break Azu and Chesnaught for Crawdaunt to sweep under trick Room, use Dragalge.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

If it then goes to a fairy type and you draco meteored, as that's the only move that guarantees a OHKO on Manetric,

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 336-396 (119.5 - 140.9%)

???

In short, a standard M.Manetric can hurt you more than you think, you proved me right about how easy it is to mispredict.

I didn't say it could perpetually wall Manectric or anything else it checks. Yes, it's slow, and many of the things it checks only narrowly miss the 2HKO. But Dragalge avoids that 2HKO, it's going to get an attack off, and there's not a lot that is able to switch in and avoid an OHKO. It's not a wall, its role is a nuke that has the bulk and typing to take advantage of a number of common pokemon.

Also, Mega Man has HP Ice, yes. But things like Rotom-W can't do anything, neither can Mega Venusaur.

Also what is "82/" supposed to be

 

[dinotrek27]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 336-396 (119.5 - 140.9%)

???



I didn't say it could perpetually wall Manectric or anything else it checks. Yes, it's slow, and many of the things it checks only narrowly miss the 2HKO. But Dragalge avoids that 2HKO, it's going to get an attack off, and there's not a lot that is able to switch in and avoid an OHKO. It's not a wall, its role is a nuke that has the bulk and typing to take advantage of a number of common pokemon.

Also, Mega Man has HP Ice, yes. But things like Rotom-W can't do anything, neither can Mega Venusaur.
Also what is "82/" supposed to be

It think he calced it without choice specs, by which sludge would do a max of 82%

Edit: Oops sorry refer to post below (82% is the damage MegaMane deals assuming max roll to Dragalge with 2 HP Ice)

 

[BlueLobster]

The calc said sludge bomb (which was the one on the standard set) had a 6.3% chance to OHKO. 82% is the max damage Dragalge takes from 2 HP Ices.