Just When the Heck was Kenshin a Hitokiri?

Chou Toshio

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WARNING: This is an exercise in thinking WAY too hard about fantasy manga and real history.

So, for whatever reason (maybe filling a void with my list of followed Jump series going form 4 -> 2, I stopped Bleach again), I ended up going back and reading bits of Rurouni Kenshin again. I've always loved the series (oddly, with the exception of Kenshin himself-- too wussy for me too often).

BUT as I read through the series, I keep finding myself going "huh?" It's just hard to see exactly how Kenshin fits into the picture of history.

So, before getting into what's wrong/inconsistent with history, let's first take a look at what the series says:

-Kenshin trained under Hiko Seijuurou to learn Hiten Mitsuryugi ryuu
-At some point, he leaves his master saying that "he must go to protect the innocent people," fighting to bring the "end of the war" sooner for the sake of weak civilians.
^wait, don't you mean:
"I have to go make sure Joi happens-- we must prove the superiority of Samurai discipline, and the power to murder the barbarians."
or
"I must murder those Bakufu in order to make sure we go to war with the foreigners, only through years of bloodshed in the foreseeable future can Japan be free."
or even
"Those bastard Bakufu are going to wipe out Choshuu-- I must go save them."
or something that sounds remotely what a Hitokiri would actually be aiming at?

-Kenshin is scouted by Takasugi Shinsaku to join the Kiheitai--which is the first modern militia in Japan, and the first fighting force to not use Samurai--in Choshuu (already you're raising an eyebrow right?). The assumption is that Kenshin is treated as a Choshuu samurai.
-Shinsaku eventually introduces Kenshin to Katsura Kogoro, major military leader of Choshu, who impressed with Kenshin's skill as a swordsman, makes him an assassin to kill off various people in the Bakufu (Shogunate) as "the Hitokiri in the shadows".
-Kenshin remains the hitokiri in the shadows until he is eventually called to fight in the Boshin wars, and leaves assassination to fight with the Shinsengumi openly.
-Shishio Makoto becomes the assassin in the shadows and continues assassinations for this Ishin shishi.


Okay, there is something that makes me go "huh?" at almost every point in this sequence of events.

First of all, the "Ishin Shishi" don't really exist until 1866, March-May-ish, when Choshuu and Satsuma join forces. Until this point, Choshuu is pretty much in a fight for its survival, with every other domain as well as the Bakufu all preparing a final war to wipe them out-- and Choshuu is still lead by the screaming remnants of the battered "Sonno Joi" (Revere the Emperor, Kill the Barbarians) creed.

Those who rallied around Choshuu at this point were either radicals who believed in ridding Japan of foreigners, or people loyal to Choshuu and taking up arms in order to save it. None of which makes sense in the picture of Kenshin's mission to "end the war to save the innocents [in Kyoto]". The Kiheitai isn't even in Kyoto at this point-- they're hunkering down to Choshuu preparing themselves to fight to the last against overwhelming Bakufu forces (all but assured as long as Satsuma-- who at this point is Choshuu's most hated rival-- sides with the Bakufu, which is all but certain).

Before 1866, the way to bring "an end to the bloodshed" isn't to join Choshuu, it's to wipe out Choshuu-- this is pretty much exactly the role of the Shinsengumi, who hunted down extremists and Joi-radicals in the capital up until the point where Choshuu is eventually forced to withdraw all its officials and Samurai from the capital completely (Satsuma threw them out, and the Shinsegumi fought with them).

But we all know the eradication of Choshuu is not what happened. Satsuma ends up joining up with Choshuu (in thanks to Sakamoto Ryoma and his band of low profile revolutionaries), seeing themselves as the next target if Choshuu should fall. Instead, a strategic alliance is formed, and with weapons procured by Satsuma, Choshuu smashes the Bakufu invasion in the summer of 1866, and the tides turn.
^None of this involves secret assassinations-- but instead secret trade operations followed by all-out-war.

It's only after this conflict, so in the fall-winter of 1866 when Choshuu and Satsuma show itself as a powerful alliance and calls the authority of the Bakufu into question. You could kind of say this is the formation of the Ishin Shishi, but not really-- in spring of 1867, Yamauchi Toyoshige of Tosa, who until this point is very close to the Bakufu, suggests that the Shogun resign and allow a peaceful change of power. This is another move engineered by Ryoma in his hope of revolution without bloodshed (as much as possible). At this point, Tosa joins the Satsuma-Choshuu alliance, who now have a unified mission/vision (though there are many amongst them who want an all-out war still) and can be called the Ishin-Shishi (tentatively). It's only at this point that Kenshin's mission statement even makes sense except...

By this point in history, a Kyoto hitokiri is really not accomplishing much. The Bakufu morale is smashed, the Shogun calls all the leaders (including those from Satsuma and Tosa) to council him on potentially resigning, and the Shinsengumi have taken a serious fall from grace. Choshuu and Satsuma are preparing themselves for a potential war with the Bakufu. In fact, the end of the Swordsman is all but over.

At this point, Choshuu are the domain best trained in modern warfare-- they have all the training, all the drill, and thanks the combination of their innate natural resources (they gots the dough) and Satsuma's trade connections-- they're armed to the teeth. For the rest of the Boshin wars, the Shinsengumi find themselves on the losing side of a one-sided-beating where they are completely whipped in experience with modern weapons and warfare. The Kiheitai and Choshuu's other modern militia are the stars of this show, with cannons and rifles being center stage.

So when WAS this era of the Hitokiri and the blood-bath in the ancient capital of Kyoto? Well, it's pre-1866, pretty much up until 1864. It's when Sonno Joi was in full swing, and radical factions from Choshuu and Tosa (the Tosa ones absolutely detested by Tosa's Daimyo, Yamauchi) ran amok-- playing up to the sentiments of Samurai pride, blind vision of superiority, or otherwise sheer desperation (takeover by westerners inevitable????) rile up thinking, and actually receive blessing from the Emperor for a time.

It's in these times that legendary assassins and patriotic ronnin roam Kyoto, killing many Bakufu officials, and spilling much blood in contests against the Shinsengumi. It's at this point when the swords battles are in full swing. Only problem; no ishin-shishi at this point. No "noble cause to bring peace sooner to the innocents"-- just lots of patriotic extremists bent on seeing Japan wage all out war against the foreigners (an impossible battle to anyone with a brain, but leaders of Choshuu saw that as better than silently being taken over). Bottom line: Kenshin is not at all the type of radical war-monger that would have been a Hitokiri at the time.

All of this converges on the Ikedaya in 1864, where the Shinsengumi infiltrate and destroy the last rallying group of Choshuu/Joi leaders and loyalists banning together. Choshuu has already been evicted from the capital. Choshuu goes for a secret mission to seize the Emperor (save the Emperor from their view), and bring him back to Choshuu where he can be used as leverage against the Shogun. THAT never happens.

The Shinsengumi break in and DESTROYS this group. It is an absolute massacre, with ears and limbs of 50 or so Choshuu/Joi men flung across the hair, skin, and blood soaked Tatami as the 10-or-so Shinsengumi assailants break and bend 8-12 of their Swords/Spears in the process of literally butchering these guys. Where the heck was Kenshin in this? Well, if he had been there, he would have gotten his ass handed to him considering Kondo Isami and his 3 top captains, Okita, Nagakura, and Saitou (all on par with Kenshin supposedly) were all in the thick of it that night.

Katsura Kogoro is the only one who luckily manages to avoid the meeting and flee back to Choshuu with his life. The Shinsengumi has broken the back of the hitokiri by 1865, and Choshuu has fled from the city.

Poor thing for Kondo Isami and his wolves of Mibu though... this is pretty much their last great victory, and the height of their power. While the rising son of a farmer-turned-elite-Samurai would rise in rank in the Bakufu, the Shinsengumi's days as top dogs are coming to an end, and the Bakufu itself about to see the beginning of the revolution.

So again, Kenshin is... wha...?

So maybe somewhere after Choshuu beats the insurgency in summer of 1866, and the Shogunate's resignation in Nov of 1867 there might have been room for a "Hitokiri Battousai" to be fighting the Shinsengumi in Kyoto-- but at this point, that's largely inconsequential. The spirit of the Bakufu is already shaking, and more importantly the hay-day of the Shinsengumi and the Hitokiri is already OVER. (Not to mention Kenshin's joining somewhere in Choshuu in the fall of 1866, and then making the 2-3 month WALK to Kyoto supposedly).

Then we come to the Boshin wars, which break out after Yoshinobu resigns his Shogunate, and the Ishin-Shishi make war on the last Bakufu extremists (including the Shinsengumi no surprise) trying to hold power despite that resignation. At this point Kenshin supposedly stops assasinations in the shadows (which would have happened for 6 or so months in the least relevant point of the Bakumatsu for an assassin?), and joins the Ishin-Shishi to fight the Boshin wars in Aizu.

All of that makes sense. Saitou says he lasts fights Kenshin in Toba-Fushimi, which was an important battle in the Boshin wars in which Saitou did actually take part in. Fine. But what the heck was Shishio Makoto doing at this point?

Shishio Makoto-- legendary antagonist of the series-- with the start of the Boshin wars in 1867, supposedly takes over for Kenshin as the Ishin's hit-man in the shadows of Kyoto. Wait. WHERE??

After he resigns his post, Yoshinobu retreats to Edo. He takes everyone of relevance with him. The Shinsengumi even retreat to Kantou by boat (with a bed-ridden Kondo Isami and Okita being tugged there unceremoniously, heck even Saitou is out of commission with an injury at this point in time, having gotten his ass handed to him in open conflicts with Ishin forces. Okita's all but dying of his TB.). Everyone of importance in the Bakufu has already retreated to Edo with their tails between their legs.

JUST WHO THE HECK WAS SHISHIO KILLING IN KYOTO?? The Shogun palace Janitors?

So, yeah... I could go on, but I think that sums up my recent train of wtf?? When re-reading Rurouni Kenshin. (Shishio Makoto was "burned to make sure he was dead" in the era when be-heading was as ceremonial as it was standardized)
 
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Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
I can't believe actually tried to read this.

And by this I meant your post.

On topic: can you try to explain what your thoughts are in simpler words?
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
It's not that I don't appreciate this kind of thing, i do

It's just that rurouni kenshin didn't give a fuck about this. Which means that the answer "no one cares" still applies-after all the overthinking, nothing.
 
This thread made me laugh, it really did. I appreciate the effort you put into this for a Kohai, but it's clear you haven't even studied the finer points of the Hamabachi arc or read the supplementary works by Tohashi to pretend you have a grasp of the Kenshin canon; my chohachi sensor is busted at the pure naivette. Where do I even start? The entire premise of the Hitokiri holding relevance in some silly hypothetical situation is just a razor thin facade hiding the fact that Kenshin is simply outclassed here. You can't just pretend your favorite character can out clever a master of the Pupupu arts like that in a fight, and Shinji was never such a bumbling oaf like that in the first place. Heck, even one of Kojima's power level which is half that would be demonstrably strong enough to annihilate him and any chakra in the premise before he could revive. If you're just going to fucking blather on about what's hypothetically possible without any thought then we all know what Komodonodo could do with enough zetto energy that even all of the Tao clan combined couldn't stop. Jesus fucking christ. Billymills told me he needed help to get this firemoved, so much for that.
 
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v

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they burned shishio bc as kenshin shows, a skilled swordsman can uncut things. decapitation is nothing to The Truest Samurai
 

Chou Toshio

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I can't believe actually tried to read this.

And by this I meant your post.

On topic: can you try to explain what your thoughts are in simpler words?
OP abridged:

-Choshuu, Satsuma, and Tosa are 3 of many domains of Tokugawa era Japan.
*Domains referred to themselves as countries, and were very independent in identity. Identity as "A Japanese People" is very weak. Satsuma and Choshuu are ruled by clans that hated Tokugawa from the warring states era, where as Tosa's ruling Yamauchi clan was bequeathed the Tosa domain by Tokugawa in thanks for their help. Until the end of the Samurai age, Tosa has deep-delved discrimination between the "Upper Samurai" of the Yamauchi clan, and the "lower samurai" of the Chosokabe original samurai clan. It's the only domain with such a divide between samurai.

Though Choshuu and Satsuma hate each other, their traditional hatred for the Shogunate eventually makes them the star players. Tosa's lower samurai clans would also give birth to many important revolutionaries, the most important being Sakamoto Ryoma, political engineer of both the Satsuma-Choshuu alliance and the Shogun's resignation of power.


-"Bakufu" means Shogunate in Japanese, refers to the government ruled by the Tokugawa clan.

-The Emperor is different, the eternal ruling household of Japan who rarely/never holds actual administrative power (same even today).

-When the western countries forcefully opened Japan, many Samurai formed the school of thought, "Sonno Joi", revere the emperor, kill the barbarians-- believing that in order for Japan to remain independent, they must quickly wage war against the foreigners.

-Choshuu becomes the center of this school of thought, which also gains favor from the emperor, temporarily. At this time, many Samurai defect from their domains and become Ronin (a serious crime) to take Joi into their own hands. Joi espousing Hitokiri emerge in the old capital (Kyoto) and begin assassinating Bakufu members who defy Joi.

-Considering the Hitokiri ultimately worked to take Japan into war against the Western countries, Kenshin as a character is completely at odds with them.

-The Shinsengumi become the infamous police force of Kyoto-- fighting for the Bakufu's rule and order, but also for their own ambitions and spill lots of blood.

-Kenshin initially joins the forces of Choshuu-- you know, the most extremist, militaristic, and war-mongering of the domains.

-As a character, Kenshin is not loyal to the ideals of Choshuu, but instead to the vision of the Ishin Shishi (the combined forces of Choshuu, Satsuma, and Tosa).

-In history though, by the time the Ishin Shishi are formed, the era where the Hitokiri and Shinsengumi are important is already over.

-Which means Kenshin wouldn't have been important at all if he wasn't a war mongering Joi believer who joined the fight much earlier.

-The story says that at the start of the boshin wars--the last chapter of the Bakumatsu that begins after the Shogun resigns his power-- Kenshin fights on the front lines while Shishio continues assassinations in Kyoto.

-But after the Shogun resigns, everyone important in the Bakufu retreats to Edo (Tokyo) so there would have been no one of importance for Shishio to assassinate in Kyoto. The war for Japan's future and ending the age of Samurai has already moved to the east.


Was that easier to follow?
 
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