Aerodactyl is completely outclassed by Deoxys-S as a suicide lead.
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Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter PISTOLERO
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Deoxys gets antilead by a bunch of shit and cant hit very hard, whereas stone edge/fire blast shits on a bunch of stuff.
I don't know if you're trolling or legitimately stupid, but in case it's the latter I'll elaborate.
Deoxys-S has SR, Spikes, Taunt, Magic Coat, and Skill Swap. Aero is slower, doesn't have Spikes, can't reflect Taunt/hazards/status moves with Magic Coat, and can't get past Magic Bouncers like Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye. Perhaps Deo-S's greatest strength is that it can come out on top vs. the legendary Ubers Aerodactyl lead(!). I can't think of anything that anti-leads Deo-S that doesn't also beat Aero.
Deoxys-A has SR, Spikes, Psycho Boost, Knock Off, and Extreme Speed. It can set up Spikes (unlike Aero) and hits like a freight train with moves that are much stronger and have more utility (item removal and priority). If you want a hard hitting, SR setting lead, look no further.
252+ SpA Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%)
252 Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 121-144 (31.6 - 37.6%)
Between the two Deoxys formes, Aerodactyl has no niche in Ubers (aside from swagging on your opponent). Deo-S can set up 2 types of hazards and bypass any anti-hazard leads with the correct combination of moves. Deo-A can set up hazards while maintaining offensive pressure on your opponent. Aerodactyl resists Extreme Speed and can strike back with Fire Blast coming off base 60 Sp Atk, so I guess it's got that going for it.
Deoxys-S has SR, Spikes, Taunt, Magic Coat, and Skill Swap. Aero is slower, doesn't have Spikes, can't reflect Taunt/hazards/status moves with Magic Coat, and can't get past Magic Bouncers like Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye. Perhaps Deo-S's greatest strength is that it can come out on top vs. the legendary Ubers Aerodactyl lead(!). I can't think of anything that anti-leads Deo-S that doesn't also beat Aero.
Deoxys-A has SR, Spikes, Psycho Boost, Knock Off, and Extreme Speed. It can set up Spikes (unlike Aero) and hits like a freight train with moves that are much stronger and have more utility (item removal and priority). If you want a hard hitting, SR setting lead, look no further.
252+ SpA Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%)
252 Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 121-144 (31.6 - 37.6%)
Between the two Deoxys formes, Aerodactyl has no niche in Ubers (aside from swagging on your opponent). Deo-S can set up 2 types of hazards and bypass any anti-hazard leads with the correct combination of moves. Deo-A can set up hazards while maintaining offensive pressure on your opponent. Aerodactyl resists Extreme Speed and can strike back with Fire Blast coming off base 60 Sp Atk, so I guess it's got that going for it.
In case u didnt realise, aerodactyl is used with greninja normally, with greninja leading, setting spikes/tspikes, and aero keeping them on field with taunt while getting up rocks.
why would you use 2 pokemon instead of 1 pokemon that can do both? Deoxys does have Taunt btw
I'm not really sure you want two mons that do almost nothing outside setting hazards and suiciding to get them up (hint: you don't). As stated before, there are the Deoxys formes for suicide leads, and for reliability there's Groudon, Dialga, etc. for Rocks and Keys or Ferro for Spikes. All those mons are capable of checking Ubers threats as well, unlike Aero and Greninja.
lolaero
I think Genesect should rise to A-, since it can now check Soul Dew Lati@s and Salamence pretty well, as well as just being a great scouter with U-turn.
I'd also like to bring up Latios, as I feel he may as well go S. I'd like to point out that he is an amazing Xerneas lure if he packs Roar. Latios OHKOes something with Draco Meteor, then Xerneas comes in and tries to set up, only to get phazed and thus waste its only chance. There's also Memento (something Latias lacks), which can allow Latios to make way for SmashPass.
I think Genesect should rise to A-, since it can now check Soul Dew Lati@s and Salamence pretty well, as well as just being a great scouter with U-turn.
I'd also like to bring up Latios, as I feel he may as well go S. I'd like to point out that he is an amazing Xerneas lure if he packs Roar. Latios OHKOes something with Draco Meteor, then Xerneas comes in and tries to set up, only to get phazed and thus waste its only chance. There's also Memento (something Latias lacks), which can allow Latios to make way for SmashPass.
It's an extreme case, but Aero+Gren was somewhat explored by Dice in XY Ubers. The team went with extreme measures to keep up his hazards and worked pretty decently. It wasn't really my style so I can't comment much about it but it certainly showed why Aero could have a niche in Ubers play. I still don't know if I consider Aero that viable, but Gren certainly was and possibly still is.
Js, Mega Aero actually has a couple of uses outside of suicide leading, unlike Deo-S. Its typing allows it to check the numerous Flying-types in the metagame at the moment (Mega Sal, Rayquaza, Ho-oh), revenge kill weakened MMY, as well take an ES from +2 Ekiller and chip damage it somewhat (could mean a dead Ekiller if you chipped it from like 30%, which does happen from time to time).
That sounds very interesting, but I'm not sure how well it would work in practice. Do you have some replays?
Eg,
vs Mega Salamence:
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 274-323 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 233-275 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 249-293 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs Rayquaza:
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 238-281 (79 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza (No Move) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 177-209 (58.8 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 79-94 (26.2 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
vs Ho-Oh:
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 183-216 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also, it burns you.
Feels like a rather shaky check tbh. Though I'll assume more bulk is invested.
Since we are talking about B ranks, I think Tyranitar could drop to B- since it's job to set up sandstorm got harder, It still has a niche in that it can check Ho-Oh, Darkrai, Lugia and Yveltal but Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre completely cockblock it's sandstorm as well as Rayquaza. I don't think sand teams are dead since you could pair up Mega Gengar to try to take them out. Excadrill also gained an advantage in that Primal Groudon is weak to EQ and most Kyogre now are Primal and don't run max speed so it's able to outspeed most variants. Now that I've said all this, it's time to build a sand team lol. Actually just now I remember that Soul Dew Latis exist so Tyranitar did gain 2 more things it's good against so idk about it dropping anymore.
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
First off I want to point out that I was more or less being a smart-ass about mentioning Glaciate. I only mentioned it because I easily can imagine Mence trying to set-up on Victini because of its resistances to victini's STABs. 1) No one uses that much bulk on a Mega Mence unless it is a defensive set, and 2) those calcs are lacking a boosting item such as Expert Belt or Life Orb. The calcs just prove that you were trying to be smart-ass like myself in the post I mentioned Glaciate, literally by maxing out bulk on the calc, a quite ridiculous amount too by leaving no room for Speed and Atk - two of Salamence's most defining traits. Victini will lure Salamence, outspeed on the MegaEvo turn, and KO with Glaciate. That's that. The fact that you believe someone would run that much bulk on Mence more so than running +Spe Victini, is hilarious.
Naive Life Orb would be a fine set on Victini, but it would just be walled by PDon, as all sets are; so I think overall Victini has lost its niche in this meta as a decent GeoXern check. It'll find some use on TR teams, but nothing else. Possibly, C Rank is deserving.
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EDIT:
I've found one reason to use regular Groudon: Classic Sun. Since I believe Groudon is only viable on this play style, and the play style actually prefers it over PDon; PDon's roles for a 'standard' team are fulfilled by other mons on this playstyle (example, PDon regularly is a xerneas check; but on classic sun Ho-Oh is the check to it), and so there really isn't opportunity cost using regular Groudon because its usage is highly justified for the teams that it fits on, and It's still a blanket wall and is easy to support with Lati@s. I realize that it is essentially restricted to a single playstyle, but it still has a niche that it fulfills well and so for that reason, I think B+ is fine.
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Latios does not have much space for Roar. All it really has space for is Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Coverage / Defog Recover Memento. Not to mention that if Xerneas does not try to set up on you, Latios will get OHKOd 63% of the time by Modest Xerneas' Moonblast, factoring in Soul Dew boost.
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 284-336 (94 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Now, I do agree that S Rank is a plausibility for Latios, but I do not agree with making it rise based on your argument.
Have been looking through list again, and believe that quag also deserves a c rank, because it is one of the best ekiller checks, and adds a ground type to help with zekrom.
Edit:
Also checks non hjk blaze and blanket walls a bunch of shit like scizor, lando etc.
Edit:
Also checks non hjk blaze and blanket walls a bunch of shit like scizor, lando etc.
Thugly Duckling
I play TCG now
Quagsire was rejected for an analysis;;;
Using quag for ekiller is kinda pointless when we have a million better (better meaning useful in other areas) things that fit any playstyle of team, and checking zekrom isnt even that impressive these days. quag is a nightmare to have a decent build with and its benefits are nowhere near worth it. fireburn sums it up nicely in an older post:
i also agree with previous posts suggesting latis for S, these mons are as good as ever.
Sorry, i didnt realise. :/
Megar does not have his real sprite.
Going to defend regular Groudon here:
Even though its defensive capabilities are overshadowed by its Primal version, it still has a niche and is "arguably" better than PDonner as a set-up sweeper. PDonner has affected the metagame to the point in which everyone is prepared for it while its normal version is much more overlooked. Double Dance is probably the only set that regular Groudon performs better at, as most teams aren't really a regular Groudon when they see the sprite in the team preview. And even if they do know, a lot of teams don't pack solid checks (fall of Lando-T, Waterceus, etc.) and instead pack checks to PDonner (Groundceus, ground type moves on everything, etc.)
Groudon can also handle Ekiller a lot better and doesn't get randomly revenged by flying EQ's everywhere.
Even though its defensive capabilities are overshadowed by its Primal version, it still has a niche and is "arguably" better than PDonner as a set-up sweeper. PDonner has affected the metagame to the point in which everyone is prepared for it while its normal version is much more overlooked. Double Dance is probably the only set that regular Groudon performs better at, as most teams aren't really a regular Groudon when they see the sprite in the team preview. And even if they do know, a lot of teams don't pack solid checks (fall of Lando-T, Waterceus, etc.) and instead pack checks to PDonner (Groundceus, ground type moves on everything, etc.)
Groudon can also handle Ekiller a lot better and doesn't get randomly revenged by flying EQ's everywhere.
I agree the premises of this post, but I think that the arguments is flawed. Groudon is vastly better as a physical wall compared to pdon. Earthquake is basically on every single physical mon now, and nearly all of these earthquakers, when boosted, OHKOs pdon. I simply cannot imagine pdon being any good as a physical wall. Additionally, Groudon has access to leftovers which aids the longevity significantly. Conversely, pdon has burn immune and utilizes the immunity to easily get set up opportunity for DD set. Pdon is clearly better for DD set. Honestly, you should only use Groudon for physical defensive set, and that's it. That alone is worth B+ for being the best physically defensive tank in the meta IMO.
The thing is, because of that, Will-o-Wisp has decreased quite a bit in usage (maybe that's just me but I don't see it very often anymore) so you can say that Groudon can also find more opportunities to set up. You also stated that since "earthquake is basically on every single physical mon now", most would not be prepared to run a coverage move to deal with Regular Groudon, again allowing to more chances to break through the opposing team.
Sure WoW decreasing in usage is a bit of a trend, but that's still more than trumped by actually being immune to it. Meanwhile PDon's typing and ability give it a shitload more resistances and an immunity to set up on- Rock resistance and EQ neutrality vs. Water immunity, Steel, Fire and fairy resistances. I would count Bug but that's only relevant in the form of U-turn. Not to mention that that rock resistance isn't all that relevant imo since it's not a common attack type.
Stealth Rock.
Well we're talking about shit offensive variants can set up on, which is why I dismissed it, especially since you're only switching in once or twice and bulk isn't as important for offensive sets. Of course the SR neutrality becomes a hell of a lot more important for physically defensive sets where, as Orch has been pointing out, regular Don outclasses PDon (really its only niche)
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