ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[UU ALL DAY]

What do you guys think of Chesnaught? I think it's pretty food. It has good typing imo, and personally, I run specially defensive. He has great utility moves in the form of spikes, spiky shield, leech seed, synthesis, and roar. In addition, it has bulk up and swords dance, so it could be a set up sweeper. It has drain punch which is great, and if it wants to, it can run hammer arm for more power, or wood hammer to take care of things like suicine.

all in all, I really think it's an underrated mon and would like to hear other opinions/sets.

 

[dingbat]

Here are all the megas listed + the codes I used dingbat

Glalie http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/362-mega.png

Steelix http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/208-mega.png

Camerupt http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/323-mega.png

Audino http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/531-mega.png

Sharpedo http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/319-mega.png

Sceptile http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/254-mega.png

Pidgeot http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/018-mega.png

Swampert http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/260-mega.png

Beedrill http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/015-mega.png

Gallade http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/475-mega.png

Lopunny http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/428-mega.png

thx based savior

Making a laundry list of changes now

 

[Froggyboy]

please keep the bronzong sprite, it's cute

May I suggust Goodra move down to D-Rank? All S Rank Pokemon can take it on, most of A-Rank are psychical attackers, and most special attackers have STAB to take it on, or a super effective coverage move.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Mega Banette should be off the list imo.

This mon is frankly never worth your Mega Slot. Its only real niche is Prankster Destiny Bond while possibly spreading some sort of status, but even then I just don't think I'd ever want to use a Mega for the sole purpose of dying to get a kill. By using Mega Banette you are putting yourself at a severe disadvantage because you're denying the ability to use a much more rewarding Mega, such as Gallade, Lopunny, Alakazam, etc. Mega Banette has a very minimal effect on the battle compared to other Megas, and it's hard to actually get it going in the first place because it's frail and Prankster doesn't activate on the turn it Mega Evolves. With its tiny offensive movepool it's really not going to be threatening much, and the best it usually does is throw a status move in, maybe get in a hit, and then use Prankster D-Bond. I just really don't think Mega Banette is worth it when there are so many more rewarding Megas out there to use. If I really wanted a Ghost-type Chandelure, Mismagius, and Doublade do much more for a team than mega Banette.

Also I disagree with moving Goodra down to D Rank. Nothing that's in UU besides Scrafty should be in that rank. Goodra is capable of walling many special attackers by virtue of its sheer bulk alone and has an okay offensive presence to make use of plus great coverage. While many mons have super effective coverage against it its sheer bulk means it can survive a hit and then retaliate reasonably hard. It's also not that easy to switch into because it hits decently hard and counters almost every special attacker in the game. While it's not that good at its job, Goodra is indeed viable and is definitely not anywhere near as bad as Scrafty, who is absolutely atrocious in UU atm.

EDIT: CB Goodra is also kinda legit too.

 

[jamashawalker]

Mega Banette should be off the list imo.

This mon is frankly never worth your Mega Slot. Its only real niche is Prankster Destiny Bond while possibly spreading some sort of status, but even then I just don't think I'd ever want to use a Mega for the sole purpose of dying to get a kill. By using Mega Banette you are putting yourself at a severe disadvantage because you're denying the ability to use a much more rewarding Mega, such as Gallade, Lopunny, Alakazam, etc. Mega Banette has a very minimal effect on the battle compared to other Megas, and it's hard to actually get it going in the first place because it's frail and Prankster doesn't activate on the turn it Mega Evolves. With its tiny offensive movepool it's really not going to be threatening much, and the best it usually does is throw a status move in, maybe get in a hit, and then use Prankster D-Bond. I just really don't think Mega Banette is worth it when there are so many more rewarding Megas out there to use. If I really wanted a Ghost-type Chandelure, Mismagius, and Doublade do much more for a team than mega Banette.

Agreeing with this!! Even when (or if) Gallade and Lopunny get the boot to BL or OU there are far more Megas that are a better choice than Banette. Glalie is a better suicide Mega because it can at least wall break before exploding or just kill itself with recoil. But at least it doesnt have to deal with mind games of prankster D-bond.

 

[Choice Banned]

Mega Banette should be off the list imo.

This mon is frankly never worth your Mega Slot. Its only real niche is Prankster Destiny Bond while possibly spreading some sort of status, but even then I just don't think I'd ever want to use a Mega for the sole purpose of dying to get a kill. By using Mega Banette you are putting yourself at a severe disadvantage because you're denying the ability to use a much more rewarding Mega, such as Gallade, Lopunny, Alakazam, etc. Mega Banette has a very minimal effect on the battle compared to other Megas, and it's hard to actually get it going in the first place because it's frail and Prankster doesn't activate on the turn it Mega Evolves. With its tiny offensive movepool it's really not going to be threatening much, and the best it usually does is throw a status move in, maybe get in a hit, and then use Prankster D-Bond. I just really don't think Mega Banette is worth it when there are so many more rewarding Megas out there to use. If I really wanted a Ghost-type Chandelure, Mismagius, and Doublade do much more for a team than mega Banette.

Also I disagree with moving Goodra down to D Rank. Nothing that's in UU besides Scrafty should be in that rank. Goodra is capable of walling many special attackers by virtue of its sheer bulk alone and has an okay offensive presence to make use of plus great coverage. While many mons have super effective coverage against it its sheer bulk means it can survive a hit and then retaliate reasonably hard. It's also not that easy to switch into because it hits decently hard and counters almost every special attacker in the game. While it's not that good at its job, Goodra is indeed viable and is definitely not anywhere near as bad as Scrafty, who is absolutely atrocious in UU atm.

EDIT: CB Goodra is also kinda legit too.

Thirding this. Right now, the opportunity cost for megas is big, between Megalade, Mlop, MZam, among other viable megas, and even the more niche megas like Audino are better than Banette. Expanding on Scrafty's point, even with its movepool size aside, Banette often finds itself with 4MSS, especially if it tries to be a "stallbreaker" as support-based ones want Taunt/WoW/Dbond/Twave, and even others like Cotton Guard (which is illegal with some vital moves anyway) on top of your offensive movepool.

 

[slated]

Mega Ampharos could probably move back up to A- or A, it struggled mightily because it was just huge setup bait for Mega Altaria and other fairies of the sort, and with those leaving it should be almost as good, if not as good, as it was before. It can go back to spamming Volt Switch and Dragon Pulse to its heart's content.

 

[xMarth]

Just wanted to say that this is probably the best the viability rankings have accurately depicted the meta in a while. Very nice work ranking staff, I really don't see much I'd want to change if anything at all. So yeah nice job guys.

 

[Arch]

This meta is extremely forgiving to fighting types without M-Altaria, Togekiss, and Klefki looming over them. If fighting types do re-spike (which, really, they have no reason not to) we might even see the inherent resurgence of defensive fairies like Aromatisse and Granbull. I can see Mega Pidgeot and Crobat get a promotion in the viability rankings in the coming weeks as the meta shifts as well.

In addition, M-Sceptile, Noivern, Haxorus, M-Ampharos, and Flygon are really going to be able to flourish again. These guys are definitely gonna get some love very soon.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Mega Gallade is incredibly broken now that all the offensive fairy and flying types have left us. At +2 it's just impossible to deal with. Honestly, what revenge kills it aside from Crobat, Aerodactly and Fletchinder? The best scarfers in the tier can't stop it; Meinshao's STAB is resisted and it has the special bulk to tank Hydreigon's Draco and get all its health back with Drain Punch. Anything slower just dies.

+2 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 321-378 (89.1 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's too fast and too strong for this tier.

 

[Froggyboy]

+2 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 321-378 (89.1 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's too fast and too strong for this tier.

While I agree Mega Gallade is powerful, don't use a poor psychical wall as an example of its power. Knocking something out with 78/68 psychical bulk is nothing to be proud of.

And it gets revenged by Mega Pidgeot, Tornadus, SashZam, Infernape, Moltres, Chandelure, Noivern, and more.

 

[MrCookiepants]

While I agree Mega Gallade is powerful, don't use a poor psychical wall as an example of its power. Knocking something out with 78/68 psychical bulk is nothing to be proud of.

And it gets revenged by Mega Pidgeot, Tornadus, SashZam, Infernape, Moltres, Chandelure, Noivern, and more.

I used Florges as an example because anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance. Fighting/Psychic STAB is walled by few things. And most of those things can't take a +2 Knock Off. And the fact that we're listing things that nobody uses like Moltres and Tornadus tells me that offense is equally ill-equipped to deal with it.

Mega Medicham was too good for UU. Gallade is basically the same Pokemon only with better coverage, more speed, more bulk and a boosting move. It's ridiculous.

 

[Froggyboy]

I used Florges as an example because anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance. Fighting/Psychic STAB is walled by few things. And most of those things can't take a +2 Knock Off. And the fact that we're listing things that nobody uses like Moltres and Tornadus tells me that offense is equally ill-equipped to deal with it.

Mega Medicham was too good for UU. Gallade is basically the same Pokemon only with better coverage, more speed, more bulk and a boosting move. It's ridiculous.

Still, using a special wall to show the power of a psychical attacker is redundant. That's like showing a calc of Chandelure OHKOing a Hippowdon and saying how Chandelure is broken.
And there are still Pokemon that can revenge it, with all these megas, 110 speed is still good, but not as impressive as it was before.

 

[KaiseraAeros]

I used Florges as an example because anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance. Fighting/Psychic STAB is walled by few things. And most of those things can't take a +2 Knock Off. And the fact that we're listing things that nobody uses like Moltres and Tornadus tells me that offense is equally ill-equipped to deal with it.

Mega Medicham was too good for UU. Gallade is basically the same Pokemon only with better coverage, more speed, more bulk and a boosting move. It's ridiculous.

Definately someone that doesn`t know Gobo

also if you want a better Calc example simply use this
+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 361-426 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
change that for a spike and you got a 100% Knock Out chance

Also listing stuff such as Moltres and Scarf Ape Instead of Mega Aero to revenge kill Gallade

 

[slated]

I used Florges as an example because anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance. Fighting/Psychic STAB is walled by few things. And most of those things can't take a +2 Knock Off. And the fact that we're listing things that nobody uses like Moltres and Tornadus tells me that offense is equally ill-equipped to deal with it.

Mega Medicham was too good for UU. Gallade is basically the same Pokemon only with better coverage, more speed, more bulk and a boosting move. It's ridiculous.

Ok first of all you'd can't say "anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance." The first thing that comes to mind is Hippo, which easily lives a CC and either kills it with EQ or whirlwinds it out. And frankly if you don't pack 2 fighting resists on your team you deserve to lose to Gallade. Tornadus is very relevant, especially with the rise of rain but it's still a nice fighting resist for offense. And your last point just confuses me. You can't compare Mega Gallade, which to me is a bulky setup sweeper with a lot of speed, to Mega Medicham, which is a nuke with 100 attack, Pure Power and a 130 BP STAB move. Mega Cham is frail and hits harder than Gallade. Mega Gallade is not frail, has a setup move, a bit more speed and still hits hard as hell. I'm not making a statement about its brokenness but you can't compare Mega Gallade and Mega Cham because they're the same type and because they both use Zen Headbutt. That's just ridiculous.

 

[jamashawalker]

Ok first of all you'd can't say "anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance." The first thing that comes to mind is Hippo, which easily lives a CC and either kills it with EQ or whirlwinds it out. And frankly if you don't pack 2 fighting resists on your team you deserve to lose to Gallade. Tornadus is very relevant, especially with the rise of rain but it's still a nice fighting resist for offense. And your last point just confuses me.

Are you sure about that?

+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 301-355 (71.6 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 186-220 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

Mind you those stats are taken with m-gallade's stats. For the best physical wall in the metagame that is scary. That hippo can't KO back even after the defense drop. And whirlwinding out would put him in an even worse predicament

 

[Tom the Bomb]

B+ -> A-
Mega Sceptile is something that has flown under the radar a bit. Before Mega Altaria was banned, it sucked because Altaria could just use it as setup bait. However, Mega Sceptile is now amazing. First of all, it has amazing 110/145/145 offenses, allowing it to run a variety of sets and outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame. The Special Sub set is very good because it can set up a sub on most bulky waters in the tier if they lack Ice Beam. It also has amazing coverage in grass/dragon/fighting. Once Sceptile is behind a Sub, it almost always gets a kill unless the opponent has a specially defensive fairy like Florges. Alternatively, it can run Leaf Storm over Substitute if you want to be able to nuke something on the switch in.

Calcs:

252 SpA Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 236-282 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 222-262 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 330-390 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 294-346 (108.4 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While the damage output may be a little but underwhelming, the main reason to use this is because it is a fast revenge killer that still packs a punch. It's best paired up with stealth rock/spikes support so it can net some KOs. However, one big issue with Mega Sceptile is that it is walled by SpDef Jirachi. This leads me to another great set, the SD set.

Although it may not be as immediately powerful as the Special set, the SD set is great and it catches a lot of people off guard. Here are some calcs:

+2 252 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 388-458 (96 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (nice switch in m8)

+2 252 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 391-460 (144.2 - 169.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming it is adamant or you win speed tie)

+2 252 Atk Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 303-357 (111.8 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Sceptile Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 232-274 (57.4 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (this walls the fuck out of the special set)

I would nominate this higher, but it has things holding it back, such as its mediocre defensive typing and bad bulk. Its damage output is not amazing, but it deserves to be higher than B+.

I would put the calcs in spoilers but idk how to do them tbh

 

[MrCookiepants]

Ok first of all you'd can't say "anything that doesn't resist Close Combat hasn't got a chance." The first thing that comes to mind is Hippo, which easily lives a CC and either kills it with EQ or whirlwinds it out. And frankly if you don't pack 2 fighting resists on your team you deserve to lose to Gallade. Tornadus is very relevant, especially with the rise of rain but it's still a nice fighting resist for offense. And your last point just confuses me. You can't compare Mega Gallade, which to me is a bulky setup sweeper with a lot of speed, to Mega Medicham, which is a nuke with 100 attack, Pure Power and a 130 BP STAB move. Mega Cham is frail and hits harder than Gallade. Mega Gallade is not frail, has a setup move, a bit more speed and still hits hard as hell. I'm not making a statement about its brokenness but you can't compare Mega Gallade and Mega Cham because they're the same type and because they both use Zen Headbutt. That's just ridiculous.

Of course you can compare them. They do exactly the same thing using the same STAB combo.

As said above, whirlwinding with Hippo is the dumbest thing you could do. Leaves your physical wall crippled and Gallade at full health ready to terrorize your team later. Either way, Hippo loses and Gallade has performed its job by breaking the best wall in the tier. And the threat hasn't even been neutralized.

 

[slated]

Of course you can compare them. They do exactly the same thing using the same STAB combo.

As said above, whirlwinding with Hippo is the dumbest thing you could do. Leaves your physical wall crippled and Gallade at full health ready to terrorize your team later. Either way, Hippo loses and Gallade has performed its job by breaking the best wall in the tier. And the threat hasn't even been neutralized.

As said above, whirlwinding with Hippo is the dumbest thing you could do. Leaves your physical wall crippled and Gallade at full health ready to terrorize your team later. Either way, Hippo loses and Gallade has performed its job by breaking the best wall in the tier. And the threat hasn't even been neutralized.

Yeah, I will say that, I was only using Whirlwind as an example because Mega Gallade doesn't exactly find a million opportunities to setup in the tier, its only notable resist is fighting and it generally has to take a hit while it's setting up (unless you're playing badly and switch out letting Gallade setup, in which case you deserve to get swept). By whirlwinding you put the opponent in a position where they have to setup again with gallade. Again not the best thing you could do but not the absolute worst.

Generally, Gallade isn't going to get up to +2 while still at 100%. EQ is your best option and considering the calc above, all you have to do is about 30% and you have a guaranteed KO on Gallade. Bringing a solid fighting check that is not
Nidoqueen or Tentacruel is your best bet against it though (or bringing a scarfed pokemon that has a move to kill it with, such as Darmanitan.

And if you didn't get what I said above about Gallade and Medicham, they're completely different and your comparison of them shows a complete lack of knowledge about the metagame. High Jump Kick nuke /=/ bulky setup sweeper using Close Combat and Zen Headbutt. And to reiterate what I said above, just because they're the same type and use one move that's the same DEFINITELY doesn't make them the same.

 

[sickweare]

What do you guys think of Mega Houndoom rising? Some of its biggest checks in M-Diancie and M-Altaria have departed, leaving it unchecked by a large amount of the tier. It has a very nice speed tier, and useful moves like Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to play around stall and its physical checks. It gets pretty boned by M-Lop, but it can put up a pretty decent fight against Gallade, since it outspeeds and can cripple with WoW or Fire Blast it if it's low on health, and nothing switching in likes a Fire Blast (Rhyperior is a solid check to it though). Overall, it still sees a lesser amount of use due to the ubiquity of things like Lopunny and Scarf Mienshao, but there aren't very many good switch-ins to it (I can name Blissey and Rhyperior as good switchins, but Blissey still hates Taunt and Rhyperior won't take a Dark Pulse too well when Mega Dog can switch into a check). It seems effective to me and I think B- might be a better fit, but I'd like to hear opinions from others too.

 

[Schpoonman]

I would hesitate to call Gallade "bulky". Its Defense is patched and it does have good special bulk for an offensive Mon, but it's a tremendously far cry from Zygarde, or even Hydreigon. You no longer die when sneezed on physically, but you can't take much punishment before one of the many many faster Pokemon in the tier brings you down. Gallade is unequivocally dangerous because it starts out hitting so damn hard, not because it's another CroCune or SubCoil Zygarde.

For that matter, Gallade being compared to Medicham IS accurate. They both hit with nuclear force, but Gallade has just enough staying power and a little more speed while Medicham is the ultimate example of a hole puncher.

 

[Machi]

I would hesitate to call Gallade "bulky". Its Defense is patched and it does have good special bulk for an offensive Mon, but it's a tremendously far cry from Zygarde, or even Hydreigon. You no longer die when sneezed on physically, but you can't take much punishment before one of the many many faster Pokemon in the tier brings you down. Gallade is unequivocally dangerous because it starts out hitting so damn hard, not because it's another CroCune or SubCoil Zygarde.

For that matter, Gallade being compared to Medicham IS accurate. They both hit with nuclear force, but Gallade has just enough staying power and a little more speed while Medicham is the ultimate example of a hole puncher.

Even more contentious to call it bulky if you opt to go for CC over Drain Punch.

Bringing a solid fighting check that is not
Nidoqueen or Tentacruel is your best bet against it though (or bringing a scarfed pokemon that has a move to kill it with, such as Darmanitan.

That said... You don't have very much good options outside of poison types to deal with fighting types so I can see why he would opt for a fairy type, as those are technically your next best bet against him. Which is likely Granbull:
+1 252 Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Granbull: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 181-214 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least you have a better shot to kill him unlike Hippo:
8+ Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 264-312 (95.3 - 112.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

8 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 236-282 (85.1 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

If we look at general bulky things like Alo or Hippo they're pretty much a clean 2HKO with +2 CC, and that requires double switching more or less to dent him as he sets up and after. Sure you could bring in a scarfer like Darm but that is obviously a gamble but that doesn't really count as we're looking at things that can come in with impunity here.

That said I think Granbull is going to be gaining some attention here once more in being a good check to MGallade.

 

[Kink]

Just wanted to say that this is probably the best the viability rankings have accurately depicted the meta in a while. Very nice work ranking staff, I really don't see much I'd want to change if anything at all. So yeah nice job guys.

Hear that fellas? We were complimented.

In other news, really considering Suicune going into S rank. It's realistically one of the most meta-defining mons (regurgitating some of my fellow council members that believe this). What do you guys think, should Suicune be moved to S rank?

 

[Dilwar]

Since Fighting types are on the rise again, should Mega Pidgeot and Tornadus be moved up a rank? Both can revenge common and deadly fighting types such as Machamp, Infernape, Mienshao, Mega Gallade - Pidgeot more reliably so (No Guard). Since that accuracy is so desired by players I think M Pidgeot should be moved up to A- at most. It has a fantastic speed tier and troubles a lot of the walls in the meta since a lot are grass types, e.g, Shaymin, Chesnaught, Whimsicott, Celebi, Roserade, Amoongus. Not to mention U-Turn is good to have on those obvious switches. Reliable recovery in Roost is good as well. I've seen quite a few run HP Grass as well which is good for things like Rhyperior, so it can be quite difficult to switch into without knowing its full set. Overall I think being able to deal with deadly Pokemon that are steadily rising in usage, especially things like Mega Gallade should see this thing promoted. Not outspeeding Lopunny kinda sucks, but I expect Lopunny to go soon. Also some of its previous checks such as Diancie and Togekiss are gone, giving this thing more room to wreck

 

[canasian]

The problem with Pikachu (aside from it's generally awful stats overall, even with Light Ball) is that all of its cool moves are spread around separate events so none of them are compatible with one another. So sure, a moveset of Volt Tackle, Extreme Speed, Icicle Crash, and Surf sounds neat, but in reality you can only use one out of those four moves on any given legal Pikachu.