Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers

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will they ever put in evasion clause in ubers? i tried to get into it once , but played someone with minimize evo chansey and just said F it. :/
 
I've seen so much 6X Darkrai teams that all i see is black whenever I play AG...

Seriously if it's not teams with 6 Klefki's or M-Rayquaza it's that guy
Glad to see other people noticing this. Was wondering if it was just me. It is unbearable. Darkrai is on nearly every team. I wasn't aware it was so popular. I haven't any other Sinnoh legendary yet. I was expecting lots of Giratina, Palkia, and Dialga but no they don't see to be anywhere. Lots of Genesect too.
 

Pyritie

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Glad to see other people noticing this. Was wondering if it was just me. It is unbearable. Darkrai is on nearly every team. I wasn't aware it was so popular. I haven't any other Sinnoh legendary yet. I was expecting lots of Giratina, Palkia, and Dialga but no they don't see to be anywhere. Lots of Genesect too.
that's what happens when you make a pokemon as edgy as darkrai, you get all the little kids spamming it
 

Da Pizza Man

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that's what happens when you make a pokemon as edgy as darkrai, you get all the little kids spamming it
I doubt most little kids know how to get a Darkrai without scamming somebody, although I defienetly see where you are talking about (Back when you could play PBR online this was always happening)
 
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Good decision Mr chaos....:) , the dynamic will be fluid as ubers become his own tier.

But I been thinking :(
M-Ray is broken because he is the first of his kind on the powerlevel of 800 bst, the tip of the iceberg, clearly gamefreak told us with him "Be prepared guys because this is what we will bring to you"....
Think guys, M-ray concept could have scraped , I mean they change chandelure shadow tag when they see his terrifing potential and our reaction, but not the sky king..And the other legendaries ( pokemon with very good stats who no need evolution are left ) are without power boost mega or primal or what GF thought for the future.


I feel , I just feel , they dare to make mega evolution without mega stone or mega evolution restriction unlocked....or worse, new type.
 

Da Pizza Man

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Think guys, M-ray concept could have scraped , I mean they change chandelure shadow tag when they see his terrifing potential and our reaction, but not the sky king..And the other legendaries ( pokemon with very good stats who no need evolution are left ) are without power boost mega or primal or what GF thought for the future.
Not happening, whenever Gamefreak gets complaints about something being broken (Especially if its banned from official tournaments), then the result is almost always them just telling us to go fuck ourselves. Also Mega Rayquaza's way of Mega evolving was extremely hyped by them and Shadow Tag Chandelure was never released
 
I've tried playing Anything Goes but I really can't stand it. I am really sick of seeing the same exact teams with the same strategies. I thought anything goes would be fun but people don't seem to want to have fun. Teams of six Klefki are not fun. Teams with 3 Rayquaza's, Primal Kyogre, and Primal Groudon are not fun. I thought Anything Goes would be filled silly but fun teams. It's called Anything Goes but nobody seems to have anything different. Then there's the people who do nothing but spam substitute. Anything Goes offers you chance to come up with any team you want but I don't seem to be finding people doing that.
 
Not happening, whenever Gamefreak gets complaints about something being broken (Especially if its banned from official tournaments), then the result is almost always them just telling us to go fuck ourselves. Also Mega Rayquaza's way of Mega evolving was extremely hyped by them and Shadow Tag Chandelure was never released
I think what he was asking was if we will see more mega evolutions without the mega stone requirement in the future, or if this is something that GF decides to keep special to Rayquaza.

"Rayquaza is said to be somehow connected with the mysteries of Mega Evolution. Now its Mega-Evolved appearance can be revealed at last! The Legendary Pokémon Rayquaza is said to achieve Mega Evolution in a unique way—unlike that of other Pokémon—due to its unique biology."

Based on GF's quote above, it's possible that this was just an ORAS story-specific gimmick. Future legendaries might still require stones/orbs to evolve ala Mega-Mewtwo and Primal Groudon/Kyogre. Then again, GF could easily retcon the story so that other legendaries also share Rayquaza's ability to utilize itemless mega evolution.
 
XY introduced standard Mega Evolutions, most being singular, but with Charizard and Mewtwo getting a choice of two. ORAS introduced a whole lot more standard ones, as well as the slightly different and generally superior Primal Reversions for Groudon and Kyogre and an item-less Mega Evolution for Rayquaza. ORAS did not offer any more dual Megas like Charizard and Mewtwo, but that's one thing that seems likely to continue in future gens. And with future gens expected to expand on Mega Evolution, I'm sure they'll continue making other variants, either the same variant types that Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza have, or new ones. Probably some of each. But whatever happens, that's a ways away.
 
Should Dragon Ascent really still be allowed in Ubers. As for the other megas, the mega evolution itself banned due to the method of mega evolution (the mega stone) being banned.

For Rayquaza, the method of mega evolution is the move Dragon Ascent, and possessing the move is equivalent to other Pokemon possessing a mega stone. In order to keep uniformity with Smogon's other policies here, shouldn't Dragon Ascent be banned as well? In a real game, a Rayquaza with Dragon Ascent in its moveset will have the "Mega Evolve" option, meaning that the option is there to use it but they won't be allowed. By the same accord, a Pokemon should be able to have a move like Sheer Cold but not be able to use it etc.
 
The official response is that by playing ubers, you're engaging in a social agreement not to mega evolve Rayquaza, so it's functionally identical to the Mega Evolve button being there but non-functional. But I have an explanation that you might find more satisfying.

The current state of the simulators is entirely consistent with the games. The option to mega evolve Rayquaza only appears after you've completed the relevant portion of Episode Delta, which is why the Dragon Ascent condition wasn't found in the demo datamine (and thus why it took so long for us to find out about it) -- there is also a story flag that was removed with most of the game's content. If you trade a Rayquaza that knows Dragon Ascent over to another save file, you won't be able to mega evolve it until you're "supposed to" (source: I tried it myself in-game), but it can still use the move itself as normal. That's the scenario being replicated here, and there are no minutiae that I'm aware of that the simulator misses by doing so.
 

SparksBlade

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Should Dragon Ascent really still be allowed in Ubers. As for the other megas, the mega evolution itself banned due to the method of mega evolution (the mega stone) being banned.

For Rayquaza, the method of mega evolution is the move Dragon Ascent, and possessing the move is equivalent to other Pokemon possessing a mega stone. In order to keep uniformity with Smogon's other policies here, shouldn't Dragon Ascent be banned as well? In a real game, a Rayquaza with Dragon Ascent in its moveset will have the "Mega Evolve" option, meaning that the option is there to use it but they won't be allowed. By the same accord, a Pokemon should be able to have a move like Sheer Cold but not be able to use it etc.
The stone is useless if you choose not to/can't mega evolve your pokemon, while a move is useful either way. Dragon Ascent is a fantastic move, and also enables Rayquaza to Mega Evolve. It's just we've banned this ability to Mega Evolve if it knows the said move. The move just gives the option to Mega Evolve, but it is a great move regardless of this. DA in itself as a move isn't uncompetitive or something, it's the secondary effect of Mega Evolving Rayquaza that's uncompetitive, so we just got rid of the MEvo.
 
Eh, I'm not going to lie: I dont particularly agree with the specific rules of "anything goes" (we should really attempt to have SOME level of competitivity instead of making it luck based and Chesto dependent), but I know I did want to see policy changes towards ubers that would make it function more like a tier than anything else.Now we actually have the room to ban STag for being broken, instead of pretending it was uncompetitive. I've got faith that as time passes we will develop proper rules to make it a competitive metagame, and thusly a true successor to ubers.

That all said, I absolutely DEMAND the new metagame be called Ubers 2: Electric Uberloo
 
I've been wondering about the whole Dragon Ascent thing. That is a good precedent for allowing the move but not the Mega Evolution though.

And wait. I've been hearing talk of "ban stag" - is that supposed to refer to Shadow Tag, Xerneas, or either one? I assumed Xerneas, but "ban STag" sounds like Shadow Tag.
 

SparksBlade

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I've been wondering about the whole Dragon Ascent thing. That is a good precedent for allowing the move but not the Mega Evolution though.

And wait. I've been hearing talk of "ban stag" - is that supposed to refer to Shadow Tag, Xerneas, or either one? I assumed Xerneas, but "ban STag" sounds like Shadow Tag.
lel ik its confusing, we somewhere said to refer Shadow Tag as s-tag, but that's a bother to all. Still, neither of the stag will be banned for sure(in the forseeable future at least)
 
Man people here are super uncreative: Slap an Imprison Mon with Swagger and Thunder Wave and a Lum Berry and let the 6Klefki team cry. For Dakrai Scarf Primeape...there are a lot of ways to be good in this metagame.

And yes, counterteaming is really viable in this metagame, you could even say it is the whole appeal of it.
 
I mean, I get M-Ray is a tad bit broken, but, AG as a whole isn't something I like or care for.
Then don't play it.
I preferred it when Ubers was kind of a ban list. There were a few bans I felt were unnecessary *cough cough*Aegislash, Mega Mawile, Mega Gengar*cough cough* excuse me,
I can maybe, MAYBE get arguments against the bans of Mega Mawile and Aegislash, but people were debating banning Mega Gengar HERE IN UBERS. It got banned in OU for being ridiculously broken, and it nearly got banned from Ubers for being uncompetitive. It is probably the most necessary ban in the entire generation.
but there were some reasonable ones, too *cough*Talonflame, Mega Kan*cough*. Jeez I'm sick today.
You must be, because Talonflame never, ever got banned. Ever. How would you ever even think Talonflame got banned when it is still on nearly every team? Do you even play OU?
But at any rate there are plenty of ways to deal with M-Ray, other than just banning him. I'll admit I used a Speed Boost, Swords Dance, Substitute, Baton Pass Ninjask with him but, all you need to fix this is a tankier Ice-Beamer. I'm looking at you Milotic. You max HP & Defense on this &, sure M-Ray will be fast but his attacks will deal the normal amount of damage.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon's Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 546-643 (138.5 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

"The normal amount of damage" being total vaporization, you mean? What are you smoking?
Also, if that specific trainer is foolish enough to try & Dragon Ascent that for an OHKO, then YOU instead will probably get it. Not to mention, Mega-stat changes don't occur until the turn AFTER the mega, well, evolves.
I am utterly confused by this and fail to see how this makes Milotic a good answer to Rayquaza at all. Besides, all stat changes occur on the turn of Mega Evolution, (yes, even speed,) but it's the TURN ORDER that is decided before Mega Evolution. For example, on the turn Sableye Mega Evolves, despite its speed lowering to 20, (so it would take less from Gyro Ball that turn, for example,) turn order is decided as if it still was base 50 speed and had Prankster.
Anyways, I feel AG is just an excuse for people who don't like M-Ray in the "Real" Banlist.
AG is for people who like to play Pokemon at its truly purest form: no limitations at all. If you don't like the Metagame, maybe that says something, doesn't it?

TL;DR, evolve your Golett and follow its advice.
 

MrAldo

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^ *Sigh* First you call aegislash, mega mawile and mega gengar bans were unnecessary, then you put the words ban, reasonable n talonflame (lol) and then you said just use a tankier ice beam user (lol milotic) also ninjask...

Do you know that +2 dragon ascent can kill pretty much everything that doesnt resist it?? Do you know that thanks to Delta Stream it can live a Mewtwo Ice Beam and kill right back?? No, I guess you dont know. Since you can use a swords dance on the switch or just setup on the face of many things thanks to Delta Stream. Mega Ray was the definition of overcentralization, its ban is more like justified.

To be honest you arent making any sense.
 
"The normal amount of damage" being total vaporization, you mean? What are you smoking?
Yeah I'm smoking. Goddammit. I'm 14 for heaven's sakes! I'm just trying to prove a point that M-Ray is good in certain situations & god-awful in others. I didn't realize I was writing an essay here, professor.
 
Yeah I'm smoking. Goddammit. I'm 14 for heaven's sakes! I'm just trying to prove a point that M-Ray is good in certain situations & god-awful in others. I didn't realize I was writing an essay here, professor.
You haven't really provided a situation in which Mega Rayquaza is god-awful though. In fact, I would go so far as to say that there ISN'T one. I'd be happy if you could prove me wrong, but as it stands Mega Ray is the most broken thing to ever hit the competitive scene, only comparable to Mewtwo in Gen 1. Its ban was completely justified.
 

Da Pizza Man

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Yeah I'm smoking. Goddammit. I'm 14 for heaven's sakes! I'm just trying to prove a point that M-Ray is good in certain situations & god-awful in others. I didn't realize I was writing an essay here, professor.
Unless your opponent is completely counter teaming Mega Rayquaza, there is no situation where it is god awful. It has a great movepool, flawless stats (Also tieing for highest BST), great offensive typing, can hold an item as a mega, no counters, only has two reliable checks (Ditto and itself), and probably one of the best abilities in the game. Also being 14 doesn't mean you can't smoke (Although you shouldn't in general)
 
Yeah I'm smoking. Goddammit. I'm 14 for heaven's sakes! I'm just trying to prove a point that M-Ray is good in certain situations & god-awful in others. I didn't realize I was writing an essay here, professor.
Agree with the others (and I see you have deleted your original post due to people pointing out the major flaws in your argument). I cannot think of a single likely situation I'd find Mega Rayquaza to be "god-awful" in a match. Its stats are so high that it is rarely anything less than amazing unless crippled by status. It does extremely well against all types of teams due to its versatility, and there is a reason why it was the main win condition on many teams prior to the ban.

It wasn't banned because it could beat everyone 1v1 while unboosted, which is what you seem to think based on you suggesting Milotic as a check. There are far better Pokemon that are actually Ubers competitive that can live an unboosted hit and OHKO back (Defensive Xerneas for example). It was the fact that almost nothing can safely take a hit after Mega-Ray has set-up a SD or even DD that sealed its fate.
 
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Unless your opponent is completely counter teaming Mega Rayquaza, there is no situation where it is god awful. It has a great movepool, flawless stats (Also tieing for highest BST), great offensive typing, can hold an item as a mega, no counters, only has two reliable checks (Ditto and itself), and probably one of the best abilities in the game.
Fair point, I've been on Showdown a lot so I've been countering M-Ray, with well, competitive M-Ray & Primal Kyogre

And so my point from experience in such an environment was, well, M-Ray is good, but nothing special, UNLESS, it gets set up
 
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