Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[theV8man]

What make metagross S IMO is the unpredictability that can cause games.

Could he switch in and pursuit trap my latios?
Could he predict and ice punch my lando on switch?
Could he EQ my bisharp/heatran switchin?
Could he meteor mash my clefable?
Could he zen headbutt my rotom wash?
Could he setup rock polish and sweep?
Could he bullet punch my diancie/beedrill?
Could he set up stealth rocks for free?
Could he have grass knot for my swampert?
Is he uncompetitive with meteor occasionally deciding the game?

There's alot of situations you put metagross in that he can handle.. while he does have 4MSS that's the thing that makes him all the more scarier, you don't know what coverage he IS carrying forcing you to potential sap a mon or two. Which was a huge problem with older OU megas like mawile. His stats and bulk isn't the main issue it's how pressuring and unpredictable in practice he can be.

It's actually a bit like Mawile in a way, except Mawile had Intimidate, better typing, better power, better priority, SD... Mawile was much better lol. There's also certain viable Pokemon that wall always wall Metagross like Slowbro/Alomola (I think they survive the 2HKO from GK). Also, some of the examples you posted were kinda strange like "dould he Meteor Mash my Clefable" because it can and will lol. I get what you're saying though, you have to scout it's moves.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Also, some of the examples you posted were kinda strange like "dould he Meteor Mash my Clefable" because it can and will lol.

Ironically, some sets do not even run a steel STAB. Steel doesn't really hit anything other than diancie and clefable (who wouldn't switch in without knowing) since the majority of fairies can't do anything to you anyway and his coverage handles pretty much everything else. It's kinda like aegislash king's shield, people would overlook any set not running it but it was perfectly viable without it. Kinda similar as everybody expects a steel STAB on meta. (which as you said would require risky scouting to figure out.)

In reguards to bro,
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Alomomola,
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 214-254 (40.4 - 48%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
She wins but how viable is alomomola in OU?

 

[psVoltage]

I've been using Pursuit Gross lately and its just great. This pokemon is a solid S rank atm, best mega in the ou teir imo. Many of the points have already been said, like its unpredictability, bulk, power, and speed all being amazing. The rp set isn't its best set though, its too easy to check and it can't really muscle past the checks. (diancie is so much better at is too so pls use that) Its not that bad if you can trap then though. The 4 attacks set however allows you to tailor your metagross to what your team needs because it has so many options, sorta like greninja. Its just solid in every way shape and form right now.

Edit- To above, mola is really good atm and is used on alot of teams so its something you need to watch out for.

 

[theV8man]

Ironically, some sets do not even run a steel STAB. Steel doesn't really hit anything other than diancie and clefable (who wouldn't switch in without knowing) since the majority of fairies can't do anything to you anyway and his coverage handles pretty much everything else. It's kinda like aegislash king's shield, people would overlook any set not running it but it was perfectly viable without it. Kinda similar as everybody expects a steel STAB on meta. (which as you said would require risky scouting to figure out.)

In reguards to bro,
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Alomomola,
0 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 214-254 (40.4 - 48%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
She wins but how viable is alomomola in OU?

Not running Meteor Mash seems interesting but makes you really vulnerable to bulky psychics. Also gotta take into account that people are running max spdef mega bro cause the defense is already so high. Those GK calcs do an impressive amount of damage, but I'm still not entirely leaning to S cause of the problems I stated before.

 

[FieryTyrant]

I've been using Pursuit Gross lately and its just great. This pokemon is a solid S rank atm, best mega in the ou teir imo. Many of the points have already been said, like its unpredictability, bulk, power, and speed all being amazing. The rp set isn't its best set though, its too easy to check and it can't really muscle past the checks. (diancie is so much better at is too so pls use that) Its not that bad if you can trap then though. The 4 attacks set however allows you to tailor your metagross to what your team needs because it has so many options, sorta like greninja. Its just solid in every way shape and form right now.

Edit- To above, mola is really good atm and is used on alot of teams so its something you need to watch out for.

There are counters to Megagross and he suffers from slight 4MSS and has no recovery. Don't get me wrong it's definitely one of the best OU megas due to superb offenses and defenses, with added speed, but it is not the best in the tier.

 

[Revelation]

AV Slowking seems decent against Mega Metagross, too.
Saves a mega slot, as well.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 140-165 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 123-146 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- 80.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 157-185 (39.9 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 98-116 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 128-151 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 113-133 (28.7 - 33.8%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 142-168 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's without any physical defence investment, either.

 

[Alfalfa]

252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Slowking typically does not invest fully into Special Attack, as it needs a mixture of HP and Special Defense EVs to tank attacks like Zard Y's Solarbeam. The actual Slowking Fire Blast probably looks something like this:

96 SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 160-190 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Clone]

I don't think it's fair to say Bullet Punch is the only similarity. Just because Scizor can sweep doesn't mean it can't hit hard too. They share similar bulk and wallbreaking capabilities, but they do their job a little differently. Scizor doesn't actually have trouble with stuff like Skarm, Slowbro, Lando-T, Ferro, and Cress. There are less things on Stall that check it compared to Metagross, altho you can feel free to prove me wrong if I'm missing something. It also doesn't have 4MSS and destroys all the fast megas after an SD.

Also, as far as teambuilding goes, would you use Mega Metagross and Scizor on the same team? Probably not because they pretty much fill the same role IMO.

To be clear, I'm not saying Mega Metagross is not deserving of S-rank. Just wanted to see what people thought about it.

I apologize if I sounded rude in that post, I didn't realize the tone it gave off till rereading it, and didn't mean it to come across that way. It's just that when I read that post it seemed a bit... Uninformed.

Anyways, what I meant by that is that you'd pick Scizor for a different reason than you'd pick Metagross. Obviously it was a severe exaggeration when I said that bullet punch were their only similarities, but it's also true in a way. Mega Scizor is not necessarily a wallbreaker more so than he is a sweeper. Things like offensive SD can break early game and clean late game which is similar to how RP Metagross plays, so I'll give you that, but that's really about it. Metagross doesn't have recovery nor access to SD, so a bulky SD sweeper role can't be filler by him, nor can gross Defog. Mega Scizor has more options than gross in terms of sets thanks to Roost, which is why I feel they are so different. If gross had recover (like every other psychic type out there .-.*) then I could see it, but gross relies on his raw power and coverage to break down teams while Scizor relies on SD and his bulk to set up thanks to a less than stellar speed and movepool.

Also, mega Scizor can't break past Skarmory unless I'm missing something obvious, but what I was pointing out with my examples are mons that resist Scizors STABs and can easily switch in due to his poor coverage options. Like Scizor isn't beating Keldeo unless he's running aerial ace, which is really only good for luring imo. And even the. Certain things always beat him if given a free switch, such as Heatran (specifically fasttran) based on typing and speed tier alone. Gross has coverage options to get past certain checks, such as ice punch for Lando, grass knot for Slowbro, etc. he can't run all at once but due to his speed and natural power and bulk, he's always able to beat a good portion of his checks when running x move. Don't get me wrong tho, Scizor is definitely a solid A+ mon in this meta but he lacks the coverage that Metagross has access to.

While I see what you're saying and can agree with it to a certain extent (such as offensive SD vs. RP), I don't see Metagross or mega Scizor directly outclassing each other. Would I use them on the same team if given the chance? Probably not, but moreso because of synergy reasons than overlapping roles. Similarly to the whole Lando t v Lando debate. I wouldn't use both on the same team even tho they have completely different roles.

TL;dr is that Scizor and Metagross are different enough to each other to the point where it's not right to say that one outclasses the other in their own specific roles. Mega Scizor sweepers better because he has SD While gross doesn't. Gross wallbreaks better due to more coverage options and the speed to outpace certain faster defensive threats (such as Heatran or Gliscor). Both are good mons but are used for different roles.

*exaggerated for context

EDIT:

Slowking typically does not invest fully into Special Attack, as it needs a mixture of HP and Special Defense EVs to tank attacks like Zard Y's Solarbeam. The actual Slowking Fire Blast probably looks something like this:

96 SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 160-190 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What's the difference when it 2HKOes regardless? There was no real reason to point that out other than to just say that someone was wrong. Maybe if it didn't 2HKO it would make sense but in a real game that's not gonna make a huge difference.

 

[JSteele]

What's the difference when it 2HKOes regardless? There was no real reason to point that out other than to just say that someone was wrong. Maybe if it didn't 2HKO it would make sense but in a real game that's not gonna make a huge difference.

Yeah cause no pokemon has ever come out with lower than full HP.

Your calcs mean you need a bit prior damage and then you can ohko, while the other calcs mean you most likely will have to actually 2hko it.

 

[Psycho Pacifist]

A+ - > A+

As much as I love M-Gallade and how effective it really can be, there's a lot that holds it back from being truly effective without some team support, which is the definition of A rank.

110 speed is more crowded with the new megas, and M-Gallade even if kept at full health (With the popularity of hazards and the obvious switching in to get off the evolution that's unlikely) it can't risk being OHKO'd and thus losing your mega.

252 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 230-272 (83 - 98.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 242-286 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 202-238 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And I do understand these Pokémon can be beat by Gallade, but realistically why would you take that chance? With prior damage, those 50%'s and 2HKO's turn to straight up OHKO's.

There are also a multitude of Pokémon such as Clefable, Gliscor, Landoru-T, and Azumarill who don't appreciate a ZH, but they can straight up KO back or inflict heavy damage for a revenge killer to come in.

And with that segway of revenge killers, that brings up Pokémon like Talonflame and Scarf Landorus-T.

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 186-219 (67.1 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 175-208 (63.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not to metion other faster megas like Pidgeot and Sceptile.

I think Gallade is fantastic, but it needs a team around it to really be effective. It needs things partners so it have to risk getting the speed tie, so it doesn't have to predict a switch to be able to beat fairy types. Without a Swords Dance up it's wallable by more than you'd expect.

I think Gallade needs to stay in A+.

 

[alexwolf]

Update time:

Mega Metagross: A+ ---> S
Landorus-T: A+ ---> S
Mega Charizard X: S ---> A+
Keldeo: S ---> A+
Thundurus: A+ ---> S
Garchomp: A+ ---> A
Mew: A+ ---> A
Mega Venusaur: A+ ---> A
Mega Charizard Y: A+ ---> A
Dragalge: Unranked ---> C
Pangoro: Unranked ---> C-
Flygon: Unranked ---> D

I added Flygon as per suggestion of Tokyo Tom, and Dragalge and Pangoro because they got way better in ORAS and should definitely be in the list somewhere. The ranking of Dragalge and Pangoro is subject to change in the future, i just included them in the list now to stop newcomers from suggesting we should rank them while we are discussing about different ranks.


So there you have it, the first ORAS update, which i hope most people agree with! Now, let's start discussing about the Pokemon that are currently in A and A- ranks.

 

[Valmanway]

Just gonna bring up a previous post, since we can now talk about A Ranks.

Nominating Mega Altaria to A+. Mega Altaria's one of those jack-of-all-trades kind of Pokemon, and while each set may not be the best compared to other Pokemon and their versions of the set, predicting the wrong set can be fatal at times. If you bring in a physical wall, Mega Altaria could drop a Draco Meteor. If you bring in a special wall, it can hit like a truck with Pixilate Return. Did you bring in Heatran thinking it was the special set? Nope, it was mixed the whole time, but enjoy that Earthquake. And what if it isn't an attacker, and instead a wall? Is it a physical wall, or a special wall? What if it isn't a wall at all? Switching something in with the intent to wallbreak could provide a free turn for Mega Altaria to set up Dragon Dance and go crazy afterwards. Honestly, this thing has so much versatility that it isn't even funny. And pretty much every set it could run can pull its weight for the team; you can sweep teams with the offensive sets or wall attackers with the defensive sets. If I need to bring up the threats each set beats, I will, but for now, I say move Mega Altaria to A+.

 

[AM]

Ok so M-Sableye for me is a given for A+. A cornerstone of stall right now, the premiere spin-blocker, extremely hard to wear down with the proper stall support, has the right utility to threaten various archetypes, and teams need to prepare for this at the level of an A+ ranked mon.

I'd like to see some reasoning as to how Dragonite can maintain itself comfortably at A rank at the moment. I simply don't see it besides being able to check offense a bit with banded extremespeed. I feel like it doesn't provide as much in the meta as it use to.

I made a mention awhile back when Albacore asked but Gliscor should drop to A-. It's got a lot of positives going for it on balance and stall builds with its defensive utility but dealing with M-Sableye stall is a pain for it and its become a bit of a liability with Greninja running about along with the increased viability of such threats such as Thundurus, M-Altaria, and Taunt/Sub M-Gyarados.

Tyranitar Mega for B+ not necessarily because the meta has got worse towards it but because we're now establishing opportunity cost between megas as a thing.

 

[Vengeance417]

I'll also quote an earlier post of mine.

This has most likely been discussed to death, but:

Mega Gyarados for A+

Gaining access to Crunch gave this Mega Shrimp a new lease of life. Many of the Pokemon that have been able to wall him, such as Slowbro, Cresselia and to a lesser extent, Ferrothorn, can no longer switch in thinking they'll be relatively unscathed.

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 210-248 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 145-172 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (note that not every Ferro set uses max Defense like this)

Also, thanks to having access to Mold Breaker, Mega Gyarados can actually use Taunt against perhaps the best stallmon atm, Mega Sableye, neutering it completely and being able to 2HKO max defense variants with both its STABs at +1, not to mention that Mega Sableye can't do anything back to Mega Gyarados after it's Taunted, as Knock Off, Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball don't do jack against him, forcing a switch, which gains another free DD for Mega Gyarados.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Nominating Breloom for A-

With Megacross and Megacham dropping in usage (not to mention Mega Venusaur, still its premier counter), the Sash set has become a lot safer, but it's been its LO set, IMO, that has proven the most dangerous and valuable in the current metagame. It's one of the few physical attackers that can (potentially) OHKO fully defensive Megabro, OHKOs Megapunny, and can even break Mega Sableye. Only the rise of Celebi and Chesnaught really hurt it, and only the former really deals with the SD set. Consider:

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 165-192 (54.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 321-378 (105.5 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 344-404 (87.3 - 102.5%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 328-390 (83.2 - 98.9%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 328-385 (121 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 175-208 (46 - 54.7%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Vengeance417]

Mega Medicham should drop to A-, possibly even further...

So many factors in this metagame are hurting it right now. The biggest and most obvious (and most stated) factor is how outclassed he is by Mega Gallade as a fellow physical Psychic/Fighting type. Medi has more immediate power thanks to Pure Power, but he doesn't have access to the safer Close Combat, has no boosting move unlike Gallade's SD, is ten speed points slower than not just Gallade but the rest of the new megas that are within the base 110 speed tier and does not have access to the highly spammable Knock Off unlike Gallade. Gallade also has access to Shadow Sneak, which gives him a way to effectively kill weakened Latis and Gengar without having to risk a speed tie.

This hurts Gallade too, but Medicham is completely walled by the likes of Slowbro and its Mega and Mega Sableye. However, with all the positives that Gallade has over Medi, I'd rather run Gallade.

On a more general note, there's also heavy competition for its mega slot in the form of not just Gallade, but all the other Megas currently in A right now. There's Mega Diancie, Mega Latias, Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric, Mega Slowbro and Mega Gyarados in A right now, all of which, in my opinion, are WAY better than Mega Medicham right now.

 

[alexwolf]

Ok so M-Sableye for me is a given for A+. A cornerstone of stall right now, the premiere spin-blocker, extremely hard to wear down with the proper stall support, has the right utility to threaten various archetypes, and teams need to prepare for this at the level of an A+ ranked mon.

I'd like to see some reasoning as to how Dragonite can maintain itself comfortably at A rank at the moment. I simply don't see it besides being able to check offense a bit with banded extremespeed. I feel like it doesn't provide as much in the meta as it use to.

I made a mention awhile back when Albacore asked but Gliscor should drop to A-. It's got a lot of positives going for it on balance and stall builds with its defensive utility but dealing with M-Sableye stall is a pain for it and its become a bit of a liability with Greninja running about along with the increased viability of such threats such as Thundurus, M-Altaria, and Taunt/Sub M-Gyarados.

Tyranitar Mega for B+ not necessarily because the meta has got worse towards it but because we're now establishing opportunity cost between megas as a thing.

To add about Gliscor, being unable to properly stallbreaker against Mega Sableye stall beats the purpose of running stallbreaking Gliscor in the first place, one of his best sets. Other than being in desperate need of a Bisharp check (so no Lando-T), i don't see many reasons to use Gliscor atm, as Landorus-T is better against offense and Gliscor as a whole got much worse vs stall, so i think B+ is beter than A-.

I agree with everything else you said, and it's worth noting that Dragonite also got a big hit with the introduction of Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie, and Mega Metagross, all of which make the CB set way harder to use and also check DD Dragonite.

Moving on, here are the changes i would make:

Mega Lopunny: A ---> A+
Mega Altaria: A ---> A+
Mega Heracross: A ---> A-
Mega Slowbro: A ---> A+
Terrakion: A ---> A-
Mega Medicham: A ---> C+


Mega Lopunny to A+ is obvious in my eyes, this thing is one of the biggest threats to offense, can safely MEvolve thanks to great initial Speed and Fake Out, is great against balance with little support, and can even do work against stall with sets such as SubPuP, SubEncore, SubPass, and even Healing Wish lets wallbreaking partners have a second shot at messing up the opponent's stall teams.

Same goes for Mega Altaria, which provides an excellent blend of power, bulk, and longevity, and is also very versatile, with at least four viable sets that have lots of different options withing themselves. Mega Altaria's typing is crazy good in this metagame, and she has million tools at her disposal to take advantage of the free turns it finds.

Mega Heracross is still a very viable wallbreaker, especially against stall teams, but its matchup against balance and offense has gotten worse. Mega Altaria, Mega Gallade, and Mega Metagross are new checks that make Hera's life harder, Landorus-T is more popular than ever, and in general most offensive Pokemon have the upper hand against Mega Heracross one on one, leaving to Mega Heracross mostly defensive Pokemon to prey on. Also, for a MEvo that didn't get any better or any new niche, the even bigger opportunity cost hurts its viability a bit.

Mega Slowbro deserves to go in A+ solely because of its dual boosting set (Iron Defense + Calm Mind), which unless you have a Toxic user, NP Thundurus, Specs Electric-types (easy to take advantage of), TG Manaphy, NP Celebi, or Modest Mega Sceptile, is going to sweep you clean, not to mention that it's few checks and counters can be easily taken care of with a couple of teammates, or even by Slowbro itself, if he wears them down with Scald burns in the early-game. Plus, Mega Slowbro is one of the best checks to Mega Metagross and nearly every single physical attacker, which is saying a lot.

Regarding Mega Medicham, it's just outclassed by Mega Gallade, what else is there to say, and even C+ seems too generous.

Finally, Terrakion got one more check in Mega Sableye, which makes its life harder no matter how you see it. Mega Sableye counters Scarf Terrakion, checks Band sets, and walls SR + Taunt sets, meaning Terrakion has to resort to SD + SR sets if it wants to be a reliable SR setter and can't prevent anymore SR from going up against opposing SR setters. A ton more faster stuff that outspeed and KO it is also bad news, as is getting fucked by one of the most common Pokemon found on offense, Landorus-T.

Other changes i am thinking about are Manaphy to A, because he is a good wallbreaker that can counter both Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro, Mew to A- (being useless against they playstyle you are supposed to help with sucks balls), and Mega Gyarados to A+, though i am a bit iffy about this because i don't know if Mega Gyara is as good as monsters such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade on offense, so i want to hear more opinions about this.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Yay S rank is no longer all blue!

Anyway, nominating Mega Latias for S rank

She is EXTREMELY bulky..

The calm mind set is very difficult to work around. The fact latias can adjust her set to counter pretty much anything makes her extremely versitile like latios. She provides utility in healing wish and defog (rare on the mega) and strong sweeping potential with calm mind making her difficult to break on the special side (80/150 bulk after calmminds) and can take a few physical hits on the physical side (80/120) giving her plenty of oppertunities to set up. Instant recovery in roost/recover (any difference?) makes her able to sponge hits and easily get +6 in due time. Alot of people are complaining about slowbro's calm mind sets, give slowbro extra special bulk and base 110 speed, now you have a mega latias.

I think I worded this very poorly and there is more to be said but it's a start..

here's some calcs:

252+ Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 184-218 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 151-182 (41.4 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

 

[MANNAT]

Damn it Lando-T, you ruined blue rank That aside, I would like to noominate mega scep for A rank if not higher due to a combination of its blazing speed, offensive firepower, and fantastic ability. I have said this several times before, but now that we are actually discussing A ranks, can we talk about how much of a beast this thing is?

 

[Bluwing]

reposting this as a & a- ranks are discussed now

Mega-Sableye
Stats: 50 HP / 85 Atk / 125 Def / 85 SAtk / 115 SDef / 20 Spd
Ability: Magic Bounce**

Mega-Sableye to A+ or S rank

Mega-Sableye is by far one off the most consistent and annoying megas around, and i don't think im the only one noticing how centralizing this pokemon is atm. fitting stall based teams and bulky teams with bascially no drawback at all is simply amazing, having the ability to set up on basically anything not named a fire/fairy type or taunt M-Gyarados while also spreading burns like nothing else. it has a great longivity move in recover, a great ability in magic bounce which is basically what makes this pokemon so hard to deal with. it also packs some off the best stabs in the game while also being weak to one type only, while also having a great set up move in calm mind. if this thing gets a single calm mind it will be extremely hard to beat if u don't pack a strong fire type, fairy type or some kind off specially boosting threath that can 2hko it which makes it extremely centralizing. even if theres a fairy on the opposing team, mega-sableye will basically never be dead weight due to it's pre-mega having prankster + amazing utility it will ALWAYS do something which is a very strong argument for high ranked pokemon in general. with it's amazing consistency, extreme utility and amazing walling capabilities i think mega-sableye is an A+ rank threath and im even going to say that it is good enough for S rank. as i said it's extremely centralizing atm, u will always need a pokemon that can beat it 1v1 just because it's so incredibly hard to wear down, this is also a very solid argument at it being so centralizing.​

 

[Flamer]

Update time:

Mega Metagross: A+ ---> S
Landorus-T: A+ ---> S
Mega Charizard X: S ---> A+
Keldeo: S ---> A+
Thundurus: A+ ---> S
Garchomp: A+ ---> A
Mew: A+ ---> A
Mega Venusaur: A+ ---> A
Mega Charizard Y: A+ ---> A
Dragalge: Unranked ---> C
Pangoro: Unranked ---> C-
Flygon: Unranked ---> D

I added Flygon as per suggestion of Tokyo Tom, and Dragalge and Pangoro because they got way better in ORAS and should definitely be in the list somewhere. The ranking of Dragalge and Pangoro is subject to change in the future, i just included them in the list now to stop newcomers from suggesting we should rank them while we are discussing about different ranks.


So there you have it, the first ORAS update, which i hope most people agree with! Now, let's start discussing about the Pokemon that are currently in A and A- ranks.

 

[Alfalfa]

Flygon: Unranked ---> D

I added Flygon as per suggestion of Tokyo Tom, and Dragalge and Pangoro because they got way better in ORAS and should definitely be in the list somewhere.

What does Flygon even do? What niche does it fulfill?

 

[Flamer]

What does Flygon even do? What niche does it fulfill?

Basically an alternative defogger that beats some key stealth rockers, Ive been testing it and it works fairly well, although it has a lot of issues

 

[Mr. Hothead]

What does Flygon even do? What niche does it fulfill?

Its niche is being anti meta as a Defogger that destroys basically 90% of things that destroy Latios. It also has decent coverage and takes out many things. It also resists every hazard, which is a plus. Those are some reasons why Flygon is D rank as people are unprepared for it.

EDIT: ninja'd sorta

 

[heritage]

K, a couple of things to say here. On my mobile so I'll add more later.

A- --------> A
Self explanatory here. Mega Sceptile boats blazing fast speed and a decent offensive typing, and the Sub + 3 Attacks is absolutely devastating. However, it really shouldn't go any higher than A. Its bad defensive typing makes it very vulnerable to 2 common priority moves that really hinder it's use. Other than that, it's one of the more threatening Special sweepers.

A- --------> A+
S is a bit high to be honest, since it's awful offensive stats really hinder it unless it has a lot of boosts, and it's really hurt by Unaware Fable and Togekiss, but other than that it's a fantastic Calm Mind booster with a great typing and great defenses.

A -------> A+ or even S
Giant shrimp of murder has been talked about to death already. Works as a great stall breaker with Mold Breaker Taunt and Dragon Dance.

I promise I'll add more to this post later~