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Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
you do get the free packs, and feign death is garbage. the dream is like two 1/1 spiders, two 2/2 hyenas, and a secret, but that is pretty much never going to happen. the problem is that it's an enormous win-more card. you have to be substantially ahead on board for it to be great, and it's like the worst possible card to topdeck late-game unless, again, you're way ahead. the worst thing hunter can topdeck late-game right now is undertaker, and at least that's still a guaranteed 1/2.
tbf tho I don't think hunter is great anymore anyways. mage is pretty strong against it now that flare was nerfed (like I swear I duplicate belchers against hunter in every match). priest is everywhere, and now it runs shadow word pains and some people are running double shadow madness because of the shrinkmeister synergy. warrior and paladin are both great and have tools to handle it now really consistently now (warrior gains 6 million armor per match now, paladin has lil' exorcist and muster for battle which both shit all over it). and hunter got a whopping zero class cards that work well in deathrattle decks, so at least for now, it's not nearly as popular because people want to have fun with the new cards. it could make a resurgence if control decks stop respecting aggro so much, but otherwise, I think it's just a good deck and no longer consistently absolutely insane.
also pulled golden sneed's old shredder and golden druid goat today :) I ended up crafting voljin and then had plenty of dust left over to craft another legendary, but the only other GvG one I really wanted aside from voljin was toshley, and I pulled him in a pack, so I ended up crafting antonidas instead since mage is actually really fucking good now. plus, antonidas is absolutely insane with all these spare parts floating around. I realized going through all of them in the game that GvG legendaries kind of suck ass in comparison to the classic ones.
tbf tho I don't think hunter is great anymore anyways. mage is pretty strong against it now that flare was nerfed (like I swear I duplicate belchers against hunter in every match). priest is everywhere, and now it runs shadow word pains and some people are running double shadow madness because of the shrinkmeister synergy. warrior and paladin are both great and have tools to handle it now really consistently now (warrior gains 6 million armor per match now, paladin has lil' exorcist and muster for battle which both shit all over it). and hunter got a whopping zero class cards that work well in deathrattle decks, so at least for now, it's not nearly as popular because people want to have fun with the new cards. it could make a resurgence if control decks stop respecting aggro so much, but otherwise, I think it's just a good deck and no longer consistently absolutely insane.
also pulled golden sneed's old shredder and golden druid goat today :) I ended up crafting voljin and then had plenty of dust left over to craft another legendary, but the only other GvG one I really wanted aside from voljin was toshley, and I pulled him in a pack, so I ended up crafting antonidas instead since mage is actually really fucking good now. plus, antonidas is absolutely insane with all these spare parts floating around. I realized going through all of them in the game that GvG legendaries kind of suck ass in comparison to the classic ones.
I get that it's like K'T and only really helps if you're already ahead, but that's the thing about playing against hunters. It's a two-step process tempering their own tempo, and aim for stabilization by turn 5, otherwise it's almost always a snowballed autowin from there. This card just makes that stabilization harder, by increasing the gulf. Getting both secrets out for free with a 2 mana card, along with 4 dmg leper gnome or more 1/1 bodies all help the hunter snowball. Only in superlategame empty board topdecks it's a lose, but if a DR hunter match drags that long enough, chances are it'll lose anyways.
I actually want to play some Hunter in constructed after forcing myself to play it all weekend in arena (lowest leveled class, almost 60 now too though!). Glaivezooka is just totally sick with one-drops; the weapon can kill 3/2 two-drops and the attack boost lets your one-drop trade up if it's a 2/3 play instead, or trade into and kill Voidwalker/Cleric/whatever. It's like a better Dire Wolf Alpha, which is already pretty good.
I havent played for like 4 months but I got to dust boatload of flares and gadgetzans so I have more than enough dust to craft. Even if I hoard some dust for just in case I should have 5k~ dust to blow. What's good with the new update? Should I go for stuff like Cairne / BK / Ragnaros or are any of the new legendaries even worth going for?
I'm more of a casual player, so don't have any of the good legendaries other than random Tirion / VanCleef / Grommash I pulled. I did have a Leeroy but I dusted that for full price, which was probably worth it because I haven't played a single game since...
I'm more of a casual player, so don't have any of the good legendaries other than random Tirion / VanCleef / Grommash I pulled. I did have a Leeroy but I dusted that for full price, which was probably worth it because I haven't played a single game since...
Wouldn't bother with Cairne. It's still a fine card, but I personally prefer the 6 drop piloted card from GvG or Toshley. Piloted guy has one less health but puts on more immediate pressure, and Toshley is a 5/7 for the same price that gives you two Spare Parts, which is amazing. Black Knight isn't really good at the moment because the only Taunts people are really playing are Annoy-O-Tron and Sludge Belcher. It's nice to kill the first half of Sludge Belcher, but that's pretty much it at the moment. Rag is Rag, not much else to say there. As for new legendaries, I really feel like the only ones worth crafting immediately are Vol'Jin, Toshley, and if you want to play demonlock Mal'Ganis. The rest are either mediocre or just not as good as old legendaries. Antonidas is fucking incredible right now because 1. mage is actually really good now and 2. it has disgustingly good synergy with spare parts. Sylvanas is probably the most necessary legendary for any non-aggro deck.
Basically what I'm getting at is that the meta is way too unstable to know what the hell is important to get right now barring obviously good legendaries like Vol'Jin, Sylvanas, and Antonidas.
Huh? Antonidas seems like a super situational card.
I think Troggzor the Earthinator and Sneed's Old Shredder are going to be staples in control. Among class cards Vol'Jin, Mal'Ganis, and Iron Juggernaut look great, Malorne and Gahz'rilla can be useful in the right scenario, and Neptulon is criminally underrated for its pure value even outside of Murloc decks.
I really don't think Toshley is that good outside of Mage. Spell synergy in the game is low otherwise, and usually Sylvanas or class cards that hover around the 6-7 mana area are going to always be better than it. Cairne is still better than Sky Golem because 4/5 is still a better stat line than 6/4, and having a 2nd 4/5 is almost always going to be better than what Sky Golem spits out.
If you only play Mage I could certainly suggest it, otherwise don't waste your dust when there are so many better cards out there. As just stated, Troggzor and Sneeds are the best neutral legends to craft here, any other legends would be based on what classes you play. I personally immediately crafted Troggzor since it's arguably the best neutral legendary in the set. I'm still holding out on Sneeds though as I'm not entirely convinced its going to see play in the long run.
Edit: I got bored and decided to run stats on Sneeds
tl;dr- The odds you are going to get something worth the mana spent is relatively low (a coinflip at best, assuming you get the summoned minion's effect to resolve), but the odds you get something that can auto-win the game is much higher than something that will screw you over entirely. It's high risk, high reward. A bit too risky for something so vulnerable to silence imo.
If you only play Mage I could certainly suggest it, otherwise don't waste your dust when there are so many better cards out there. As just stated, Troggzor and Sneeds are the best neutral legends to craft here, any other legends would be based on what classes you play. I personally immediately crafted Troggzor since it's arguably the best neutral legendary in the set. I'm still holding out on Sneeds though as I'm not entirely convinced its going to see play in the long run.
Edit: I got bored and decided to run stats on Sneeds
Cairne:
4/5 + 4/5 = 18
Cairne total stats = 3x mana cost
Sneed stats would need to total 24 to compare
Sneeds:
5/7 = 12
+ 1/1 = 14
+ 0/4 = 16
+ 0/4 = 16
+ 2/2 = 16
+ 3/3 = 18
+ 2/4 = 18 (w/ charge)
+ 3/4 = 19
+ 4/4 = 20
+ 1/7 = 20 (Rivendare)
+ 1/7 = 20
+ 6/2 = 20
+ 6/2 = 20 (w/ charge)
+ 4/4 = 20 (Hogger, 22 if during your turn)
+ 4/5 = 21
+ 4/5 = 21 (Mimiron)
+ 4/5 = 21 (Cairne, 30 with Baine)
+ 5/4 = 21
+ 5/4 = 21
+ 3/6 = 21
+ 6/3 = 21
+ 2/8 = 22 (deathtouch)
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22 (Sylvanas)
+ 4/7 = 23
+ 7/4 = 23
+ 6/5 = 23
+ 6/5 = 23 (al-akir's effective statline)
---------------------
+ 6/6 = 24 (Troggzor)
+ 6/6 = 24 (Tirion)
+ 6/6 = 24
+ 5/7 = 24 (Toshley)
+ 5/7 = 24 (Antonidas)
+ 5/7 = 24 (Sneeds)
+ 7/5 = 24 (Illidan)
+ 7/5 = 24 (Baron)
+ 4/9 = 25 (w/ charge)
+ 7/6 = 25 (Mogor)
+ 5/8 = 25 (Gallywix)
+ 5/8 = 25
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26 (Gruul)
+ 7/7 = 26 (Velen)
+ 6/8 = 26 (KT)
+ 6/9 = 27
+ 6/9 = 27 (Gahzirra)
+ 9/7 = 28 (The Beast, 19 w/ deathrattle)
+ 8/8 = 28 (Ragnaros)
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28 (w/ charge)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Malganis)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Malorne)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Thermaplugg)
+ 4/12 = 28 (Ysera)
+ 4/12 = 28 (Maygos)
+ 3/15 = 30
+ 12/12 = 36
Above Raw: 25
Middle Raw: 8
Below Raw: 29
Above Weighted: 31
Middle Weighted: 4
Below Weigted: 27
40% chance of raw stats being value
50% chance of stats + effects being value
Almost everything that can be summoned above the statline is incredible, about half of whats below that line isn't totally worthless, but still not worth the mana spent.
4/5 + 4/5 = 18
Cairne total stats = 3x mana cost
Sneed stats would need to total 24 to compare
Sneeds:
5/7 = 12
+ 1/1 = 14
+ 0/4 = 16
+ 0/4 = 16
+ 2/2 = 16
+ 3/3 = 18
+ 2/4 = 18 (w/ charge)
+ 3/4 = 19
+ 4/4 = 20
+ 1/7 = 20 (Rivendare)
+ 1/7 = 20
+ 6/2 = 20
+ 6/2 = 20 (w/ charge)
+ 4/4 = 20 (Hogger, 22 if during your turn)
+ 4/5 = 21
+ 4/5 = 21 (Mimiron)
+ 4/5 = 21 (Cairne, 30 with Baine)
+ 5/4 = 21
+ 5/4 = 21
+ 3/6 = 21
+ 6/3 = 21
+ 2/8 = 22 (deathtouch)
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22
+ 5/5 = 22 (Sylvanas)
+ 4/7 = 23
+ 7/4 = 23
+ 6/5 = 23
+ 6/5 = 23 (al-akir's effective statline)
---------------------
+ 6/6 = 24 (Troggzor)
+ 6/6 = 24 (Tirion)
+ 6/6 = 24
+ 5/7 = 24 (Toshley)
+ 5/7 = 24 (Antonidas)
+ 5/7 = 24 (Sneeds)
+ 7/5 = 24 (Illidan)
+ 7/5 = 24 (Baron)
+ 4/9 = 25 (w/ charge)
+ 7/6 = 25 (Mogor)
+ 5/8 = 25 (Gallywix)
+ 5/8 = 25
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26
+ 7/7 = 26 (Gruul)
+ 7/7 = 26 (Velen)
+ 6/8 = 26 (KT)
+ 6/9 = 27
+ 6/9 = 27 (Gahzirra)
+ 9/7 = 28 (The Beast, 19 w/ deathrattle)
+ 8/8 = 28 (Ragnaros)
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28
+ 8/8 = 28 (w/ charge)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Malganis)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Malorne)
+ 9/7 = 28 (Thermaplugg)
+ 4/12 = 28 (Ysera)
+ 4/12 = 28 (Maygos)
+ 3/15 = 30
+ 12/12 = 36
Above Raw: 25
Middle Raw: 8
Below Raw: 29
Above Weighted: 31
Middle Weighted: 4
Below Weigted: 27
40% chance of raw stats being value
50% chance of stats + effects being value
Almost everything that can be summoned above the statline is incredible, about half of whats below that line isn't totally worthless, but still not worth the mana spent.
tl;dr- The odds you are going to get something worth the mana spent is relatively low (a coinflip at best, assuming you get the summoned minion's effect to resolve), but the odds you get something that can auto-win the game is much higher than something that will screw you over entirely. It's high risk, high reward. A bit too risky for something so vulnerable to silence imo.
Last edited:
hello after going 12-0 twice last winter when arena was a joke i finally lived the dream again
cards not pictured are double argent commander, a sunwalker, a gok, and a lay on hands
coghammer was dead and clunky for the first nine games and then had a huge impact on the last three
i play arena almost exclusively, do any of you guys like it or do you mostly stick to constructed
cards not pictured are double argent commander, a sunwalker, a gok, and a lay on hands
coghammer was dead and clunky for the first nine games and then had a huge impact on the last three
i play arena almost exclusively, do any of you guys like it or do you mostly stick to constructed
I'm so far behind collection-wise in constructed (haven't even unlocked all of Naxx) I can't break the Rank 13-12+ ceiling. Arena is the only reasonable place where I can fight fair, plus it's really the most convenient way to grind. One day, One day I have enough gold maybe.
EDIT: plus SPECTATOR MODE! I'd really love to watch you guys in action if any of you're on. I'm sharing my Tag (SoulFly#1403) and I'll add whoever shares theirs.....
EDIT: plus SPECTATOR MODE! I'd really love to watch you guys in action if any of you're on. I'm sharing my Tag (SoulFly#1403) and I'll add whoever shares theirs.....
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
I've managed to go 12-x in Arena 4 times now since the GVG patch, seems like it's gotten easier because more people are playing it than usual maybe?
You'd be surprised at how well budget versions of minions perform. I've gotten over rank 5 every season using Shaman without Al'Akir/Sea Giants and Control Warrior with Grommash, Alexstrasza, and Boulderfist Ogres as legendary proxies.
mainly arena - sometimes its to get quests but i occasionally feel like spending a day or so grinding (mainly with warrior control but i spent a day playing zoo once)
also on the topic of the oil, i think its a fine finisher but its fairly clunky, so id be happy with one. granted my experience with the card is arena though.
blitzlefan
shake it off!
Oh! It'd be fun to play with y'all some time (not this week because finals ;_;) - battle tag is blitzlefan#1141
I'm pretty aggressively bad at arena, though I'm okay in constructed; peaked rank 8 but I've never made a serious effort to ladder.
I'm pretty aggressively bad at arena, though I'm okay in constructed; peaked rank 8 but I've never made a serious effort to ladder.
it's like semi- cold blood and 2x deadly poson rolled into one. That's a lot of value for 4 mana. but yeah, you need board presence. but if you combo up with deadly poison it's insane. In one match I smashed everything with an 8/4 weapon and a concealed 11 atk pirate (that's a pretty consistent dream, give or take the conceal)
Barber/mech rogue is really violent, Pirate rogue seems fun and playable, the 2/3 canon makes pirate less gimmicky i guess
Shaman doesn't changed at all, JAB got #1 legend with the standard al'akir deck with only crackle/ neptulon as a change
Paladin got MUCH better, oh my god it's actually playable!!! Controle with Muster for battle / coghammer is solid
Sjow got #1 Legend NA / EU with his Control warrior, he cut brawl and added Dr Boom / 2 Shieldmaiden and Double whirlwind, this is the most solid GvG deck i've seen, and you can change a lot of things, (Explosive sheep, Gorehowl are all viable choices) it's harder to deal with aggro mech because of annoy-o-tron
Priest is a bit OP, vol'jin is the best class legendary by far, shrink+cabale = cancer, lightbomb destroys handlock too...i think a patch will come up, 5 mana vol'jin is op as hell
Handlock got nerfed a bit with 1 mana soulfire (Bomb is just better now) / Priest buff with vol'jin and lightbomb / Bgh having a bigger value in GvG with things like Doctor boom but it's still playable. Demonlock is way better than before, even though it's too soon to see a really solid deck for this playstyle
Druid is still good with combo, like Demonlock i think malorne/tree of life is playable but no one came up with a genius deck. Annoy-o-tron is crazy to keep board control, especially against warrior (throwing an axe for a 1/2 is terrible)
Mage got CHUGGA CHUGGA which is a big problem for the warrior match-up, the 5/4 goblin is keeping aggro in check and is a better Madder Bomber, which is nice. Unstable portal is absolutely stupid and random though.
Hunter is...Hunter, the perfect control-hunt has not been made yet, but the class is still pretty stupid.
Shaman doesn't changed at all, JAB got #1 legend with the standard al'akir deck with only crackle/ neptulon as a change
Paladin got MUCH better, oh my god it's actually playable!!! Controle with Muster for battle / coghammer is solid
Sjow got #1 Legend NA / EU with his Control warrior, he cut brawl and added Dr Boom / 2 Shieldmaiden and Double whirlwind, this is the most solid GvG deck i've seen, and you can change a lot of things, (Explosive sheep, Gorehowl are all viable choices) it's harder to deal with aggro mech because of annoy-o-tron
Priest is a bit OP, vol'jin is the best class legendary by far, shrink+cabale = cancer, lightbomb destroys handlock too...i think a patch will come up, 5 mana vol'jin is op as hell
Handlock got nerfed a bit with 1 mana soulfire (Bomb is just better now) / Priest buff with vol'jin and lightbomb / Bgh having a bigger value in GvG with things like Doctor boom but it's still playable. Demonlock is way better than before, even though it's too soon to see a really solid deck for this playstyle
Druid is still good with combo, like Demonlock i think malorne/tree of life is playable but no one came up with a genius deck. Annoy-o-tron is crazy to keep board control, especially against warrior (throwing an axe for a 1/2 is terrible)
Mage got CHUGGA CHUGGA which is a big problem for the warrior match-up, the 5/4 goblin is keeping aggro in check and is a better Madder Bomber, which is nice. Unstable portal is absolutely stupid and random though.
Hunter is...Hunter, the perfect control-hunt has not been made yet, but the class is still pretty stupid.
Mage is amazing right now. I've come up with like four completely different builds of it, all of which have been doing well, and it brings tears to my fucking eyes because I love mage so much. Same story with paladin. They're just really fun classes to play, and it's not even a novelty feeling of "I'm playing classes that used to be shitty."
I've been toying around with a midrange Paladin build, and it's doing well. Obviously still playing Control Paladin too, but I like how much flexibility midrange has with strong early-game into strong late-game. You don't have a lot of reach because no cheesy ass combos like Force Roar, but you have Lay On Hands, which is like a reset button, and some really swingy turns with Muster combos with Knife Juggler, Sword of Justice, and Quartermaster. Sword of Justice is amazing by the way. It's so sick with your hero power, Muster, Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Shielded Minibot, and Piloted Shredder. I'm thinking about crafting a second one to try it out, and I also want to try out Coghammer, but so many weapons. This is the list I'm running if anyone has the cards and wants to try it out (the only legendaries I'm running right now are Sylvanas and Tirion, which are both cards you'll want anyways now that Paladin is good).
I've been toying around with a midrange Paladin build, and it's doing well. Obviously still playing Control Paladin too, but I like how much flexibility midrange has with strong early-game into strong late-game. You don't have a lot of reach because no cheesy ass combos like Force Roar, but you have Lay On Hands, which is like a reset button, and some really swingy turns with Muster combos with Knife Juggler, Sword of Justice, and Quartermaster. Sword of Justice is amazing by the way. It's so sick with your hero power, Muster, Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Shielded Minibot, and Piloted Shredder. I'm thinking about crafting a second one to try it out, and I also want to try out Coghammer, but so many weapons. This is the list I'm running if anyone has the cards and wants to try it out (the only legendaries I'm running right now are Sylvanas and Tirion, which are both cards you'll want anyways now that Paladin is good).
i love echo of medivh molten giant builds props to Matthew for the basic build idea~
explosive sheep is also a great add to ward off aggro for lategame mage decks, while echo / duplicate allow you to essentially have more than a 30 card deck and dedicate your slots to removal & draw while having your few late game threats (moltens, alex, antonidas, rag) really go the distance. also duplicate belchers are still insane for taking games long. i had a really embarrassing loss to a kezan mystic demonlock who stole my ice block though lmao.
oh also i think tinker's sharpsword oil is best used with southsea deckhand, assuming you have a weapon up it's 9 burst damage for 5 mana. gaz'lowe spare parts rogue is also p interesting
gvg is awesome!
explosive sheep is also a great add to ward off aggro for lategame mage decks, while echo / duplicate allow you to essentially have more than a 30 card deck and dedicate your slots to removal & draw while having your few late game threats (moltens, alex, antonidas, rag) really go the distance. also duplicate belchers are still insane for taking games long. i had a really embarrassing loss to a kezan mystic demonlock who stole my ice block though lmao.
oh also i think tinker's sharpsword oil is best used with southsea deckhand, assuming you have a weapon up it's 9 burst damage for 5 mana. gaz'lowe spare parts rogue is also p interesting
gvg is awesome!