Metagame LC UnderUsed / Tier Shift and Quickbans [See Post #152]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Little Cup UnderUsed

Here is the banlist:
Abra, Aipom, Archen, Bunnelby, Carvanha, Chinchou, Corphish (BL), Cottonee, Croagunk, Diglett, Drilbur, Dwebble, Elekid, Ferroseed, Fletchling, Foongus, Gastly, Gothita, Honedge, Houndour (BL), Larvesta, Lileep, Magnemite, Mienfoo, Munchlax, Omanyte, Onix, Pancham (BL), Pawniard, Ponyta, Porygon, Scraggy, Shellder, Skrelp (BL), Snivy, Snubbull, Spritzee, Staryu, Stunky, Surskit, Timburr, Tirtouga, Vullaby, Vulpix (BL), Zigzagoon (BL)
Banned moves: Shell Smash

Antar is pretty busy with other stuff and I overthrew him from his throne and I am now your LC UU Czar! There will be some few difference compared to how stuff used to be deal with in the past, I know that the LC UU community is small but that has a bunch of advantages that we'll try to benefit from as much as possible.

Unlike the previous LC UU I won't only be the one to decide which mons shall go to LC BL, a council, that I'll personally pick, that consists of people who contribute here and have a decent knowledge on the meta will vote on tiering decisions. Basically, we'll have things run the way UU does (except that we'll hopefully make it more organized): we basically discuss on Pokémon that are worth getting suspected, the council chooses which mons shall be discussed about, a healthy discussion happens here, and the council votes whether the mon shall be LC BL or stay LC UU.

If you have any questions feel free to VM/PM me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

doomsday doink

v̶̱̅i̵̢̕l̶̦̈́ļ̵͗a̷̙̓g̸͈͝ę̵̎ ̵̱̌g̷̭͆û̷̦a̵̰͛ȓ̶̜d̸
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Gothita, Pancham and (to an extent) Pumpkaboo are suspect worthy.

Gothita is really good in normal LC, allowing it in LC UU is just plain ridiculous

Pancham has access to every move it could possibly want and technically has unresisted coverage, as it can just switch between Gunk Shot and Zen Headbutt depending on team. It's also got Parting Shot.

Pumpkaboo is just super good now, but I don't know that it's suspect worthy. Drilbur isn't available in LC UU, so Sandshrew is the go-to spinner, making it harder for Pumpkaboo to spinblock. We should discuss this one more.
 
Last edited:
put me on council imo look i'm rly good i peak no.1 on ladder w/ manuel sun teem http://gyazo.com/9404a6a6fec50fb3da912d6a85a649bf see???????????????

No, but seriously 1) it was actually a manual sun team, because yoloswag, and 2) this looks really fun, I'll have to try it out. First thing I noticed was that TR looks really good (by TR standards) with Pancham, Pump, Skrelp, and Goth all getting buffs. I think that's why Fizz wants to suspect all the fun mons :[ he doesn't like rooms or tricks
 

doomsday doink

v̶̱̅i̵̢̕l̶̦̈́ļ̵͗a̷̙̓g̸͈͝ę̵̎ ̵̱̌g̷̭͆û̷̦a̵̰͛ȓ̶̜d̸
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
put me on council imo look i'm rly good i peak no.1 on ladder w/ manuel sun teem http://gyazo.com/9404a6a6fec50fb3da912d6a85a649bf see???????????????

No, but seriously 1) it was actually a manual sun team, because yoloswag, and 2) this looks really fun, I'll have to try it out. First thing I noticed was that TR looks really good (by TR standards) with Pancham, Pump, Skrelp, and Goth all getting buffs. I think that's why Fizz wants to suspect all the fun mons :[ he doesn't like rooms or tricks
Or I like balanced metagames where teambuilding isn't restrained to check a couple of really strong Pokemon that definitely don't belong in a metagame filled with normal LC rejects...
 

doomsday doink

v̶̱̅i̵̢̕l̶̦̈́ļ̵͗a̷̙̓g̸͈͝ę̵̎ ̵̱̌g̷̭͆û̷̦a̵̰͛ȓ̶̜d̸
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Don't ban goth because you can use it too


Top tier argument. Gothita is already fucking ridiculous in normal LC; it only fairs better in a metagame filled with frailer Pokemon and less prominent Steel- and Dark-types. The argument that "it's not broken because you can trap shit too" is just plain dumb. That's like not banning Swagger because both teams could be SwagPlay so it's totally fair.
 
anyways, theorymonning here, but zorua looks fantastic in this new meta, especially considering the new threats in this meta such as goth and pumpkaboo
 
I understand how some LC UU mons got plenty of cool toys that they can use well and in some scenarios even "abuse" but let's not base this on just theorymoning and test how things are going on through either laddering or just challenging each other as the ladder won't really be so active, doing so will make the discussions about them healthier and more realistic (and will also allow me to pick up the council members better).
 
Oh gosh, how did I miss this.

There are quite a few things that could use consideration for banning. Hippopatas and shellder are two of the biggest. I actually put scarfed leaf storm snivy on a team to try and double as a shellder/sandshrew check (assuming shellder isn't max speed). I faced off with someone that used hippopatas + shrew AND shellder which was very hard to deal with. I haven't seen much pancham or pumpkaboo but their usage is undeniably on the rise. Darumaka + dodou can punish pumpkaboo a lot and riolu seems to be the more popular fighting type but that's likely to change.

The only other poke that bothers me besides shellder and hippopatas would have to be the last SS user, clamperl. Running prankster purloin or strange scarf pokes on teams to prevent a shell smash sweep is pretty annoying. I've used focus sashed solosis but shell smash shellder multihits right through that. The big hitters like dodou, tailow, and darumaka are annoying enough to try and account for but the shellsmashers and, to a lesser extent, rush shrew can be really frustrating.

I think elekid is fine. It can be a bit annoying as a volt switcher or a scarfer if you are one of those people trying to abuse shell smashers and don't have a ground type to switch into (which you should). Overall it just lacks power with it's base 16 att/spa to be able to secure kills on most pokes. Some of the things that slipped into LC UU were surprising but I'm not surprised elekid fell so low in usage. That high speed tier, moderate coverage, and static hax can only do so much for it. With 10 base defense elekid is also a little physically frail.

One poke I really enjoyed using was LO meowth. That fake out + feint priority can be really strong for dealing with some of these choiced/sashed/LO pokes that die to that combination from full. Also at +3 and +2 priority it's very unlikely you'd be out-sped.
 

Star

is a Tournament Directoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Top Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL Championis the defending RU Circuit Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OGC & Tour Head
BEWARE: Briyella-esque post

Current state of this metagame involves tons of broken ass mons that make teams exceedingly similar. For example when Yagura and I battled earlier today we used 5 of the same mons showing how centered on a few mons the metagame is. I'm just gonna go over a couple key mons that I feel are far too broken for this tier.



Pancham

This mon is stupidly broken fulfilling numerous roles within a team and beating the majority of the metagame with relative ease. It can run a pivot set with Drain Punch, Knock Off, Gunk Shot/Zen Headbutt and Parting shot which allows it to wear down a team and bring in hard hitting teammates that I'll get to later with ease. Or it can fulfill the sweeper/wallbreaker role itself by running Swords Dance overall Parting Shot backed pushing it to an incredible 36 Atk at +2. This allows it to OHKO 90% of the metagame and its only "drawback" is low speed which actually helps it as far as Drain Punch goes. Overall the little panda is stupidly broken and needs to go immediately.



Doduo

Doduo is capable of reaching 18 attack and 18 speed making it one of the strongest and fastest mons in the tier. It has access to moves such as Brave Bird, Knock Off, Return and Quick Attack that put its sweeping potential through the roof with Life Orb as it is able to cleanly OHKO the majority of the tier after Stealth Rock. This is one of Pancham's partners in crime that absolutely wrecks teams when given a free turn. The other option for Doduo is to be a revenge killer with Choice Scarf which allows to outspeed Pokemon such as Elekid which would normally check it. Scarf also allows it to outspeed 13 speed shell smashers which are common in LC UU and give an offensive team a means of checking them.



Gothita

This is arguably the scariest mon in the tier due to its ability Shadow Tag which traps opposing pokemon. It also has access to Trick which allows it to cripple bulkier mons with a Choice item allowing Gothita to function exceptionally well against all types of teams. It decimates Hyper Offense by removing key sweepers with the appropriate move as it can outspeed them with a Choice Scarf. Its great coverage with access to moves such as Psychic, Energy Ball and Thunderbolt allow it to hit the majority of the tier and kill or cripple them severely. It also functions well against bulkier teams due to Trick which allows to steal items and prevent a pokemon from performing its roll.



Pumpkaboo

Pumpkaboo is the one of the bulkiest mons in the tier able to reach 23/16/16 defenses and 11 speed. It has access to Will-o-Wisp to cripple opposing pokemon and also has Synthesis which gives it valuable recovery and stability. With Bullet Seed (great damage rolls in LC) and Shadow Sneak it can easily wear down opposing teams to be picked off by teammates or its own priority. The pokemon is just stupidly bulky and able to wall the large majority of the tier. Its ghost typing allows it to function as a spinblocker for hazard offense or stall and it performs its roll very effectively as opposing spinners are typically ground or water types which it bypasses with Bullet Seed.



There are more pokemon I am on the fence about such as Elekid and I may update later if I form a more concrete opinion on them.
 
Last edited:
I am really happy to see that LC UU is back, I know that it doesn't have a community as big as LC but it can have some success if people take care of it.
However, like Yagura said, there are some stuff that can be really broken but the ladder is dead and not a lot of people have teams so we can't have a knowledge on the meta and build our opinions on solid arguments.

tl;dr: you guys should play this more :)
 
Honestly, Pancham, Pumpkaboo, and Skrelp being suspect tested seems unnecessary. Especially when we have Clamperl, Shellder, and Binacle who sweep past all of these pokemon with extreme ease. (I think Binacle is the only one who gets walled by Pumpkaboo, though?) Of the afformentioned proposals, the only one I can fully support is Gothita amd that is only because trapping in any tier is really annoying.

Doduo easily disposes of Pumpkaboo and Pancham, and maybe even Skelp(?), Elekid with Psychic eliminates Pancham and Skrelp, Inkay's new addition of Knock Off is not helpful for Pumpkaboo's case, while it is still a de ent answer to Pancam and Skrelp due to it having Psychic-STAB. Taillow is also here in LC UU, and none of these three would wat to be in on a Taillow when Guts is activated. There are many other pokemon in this tier that dispose of these three pokemon, mostly due to their being extremely slow. Skrelp is probably the one who has the highest potential of being removed from this tier because I dont see it having very many switchins. However, I do feel that a couple of my reasonins as to why Pancham and Pukaboo should not be suspect testmay also be overpowered themselves (I am looking at you Doduo...), but as it currently stands....

(Edit: wait Skrelp wasnt even mentioned? I read this thred when I was falling asleep and didn't go over it before I posted....)
 
Last edited:
I'd point out that Pursuit trapping also messes Goth pretty badly. That being said, shellder and shit are way more broken than the new stuff in Uu. I mean, nothing really checks Shellder all that well.
 
I'd point out that Pursuit trapping also messes Goth pretty badly. That being said, shellder and shit are way more broken than the new stuff in Uu. I mean, nothing really checks Shellder all that well.
However, another point to be made is that Stunky is, honestly, the only good Pursuit Trapper in the tier.
 

Shrug

is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past SCL Champion
LCPL Champion
Pancham said:
However, another point to be made is that Stunky is, honestly, the only good Pursuit Trapper in the tier.
So just run Stunky on every team so Gothia is only limited to a single free kill a game duh obviously Goth isnt broken
 
One of the things I think people forget about LC UU is there's some really absurd defensive options down here, which helps to counteract the new offensive threats ORAS brought. Hippopotas and Slowpoke are both below the cutoff (while shit like aipom and honedge aren't, w/e), and do an amazing job of walling Pancham. Hippo in particular takes less than half from a drain punch even after having evio knocked off, and can whirlwind Pancham out if tries to set up. Lickitung is basically LC UU's Porygon, and does an amazing job against all of the special attackers, even being able to live +2 Clamperl's Surf. The shell smashers that everyone likes to bitch about are kept in check by things like scarf elekid, skrelp (loses to shellder but beats all the others), prio t wave purrloin, etc. although they do put massive pressure on more defensively oriented teams.

I guess what I'm trying to get is the LC UU mon's check each other fairly well, and while the tier is centralized (normal LC is incredibly centralized in and of itself) its not as broke as you'd think if you'd actually try playing it.
 

doomsday doink

v̶̱̅i̵̢̕l̶̦̈́ļ̵͗a̷̙̓g̸͈͝ę̵̎ ̵̱̌g̷̭͆û̷̦a̵̰͛ȓ̶̜d̸
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
One of the things I think people forget about LC UU is there's some really absurd defensive options down here, which helps to counteract the new offensive threats ORAS brought. Hippopotas and Slowpoke are both below the cutoff (while shit like aipom and honedge aren't, w/e), and do an amazing job of walling Pancham. Hippo in particular takes less than half from a drain punch even after having evio knocked off, and can whirlwind Pancham out if tries to set up. Lickitung is basically LC UU's Porygon, and does an amazing job against all of the special attackers, even being able to live +2 Clamperl's Surf. The shell smashers that everyone likes to bitch about are kept in check by things like scarf elekid, skrelp (loses to shellder but beats all the others), prio t wave purrloin, etc. although they do put massive pressure on more defensively oriented teams.

I guess what I'm trying to get is the LC UU mon's check each other fairly well, and while the tier is centralized (normal LC is incredibly centralized in and of itself) its not as broke as you'd think if you'd actually try playing it.
Scarf Elekid sounds like the most gimmicky attempt at revenge killing Shell Smashers, when in reality all it does is threaten a Smasher out so it can switch in later and wreak more havoc. Unless you get the paralyze on the turn you use it, Purrloin is going to lose to a Shell Smasher as well.

Granted there are means of handling Smashers, but your going to lose at least one Pokemon unless you play flawlessly.
 
Alright, so after a couple of battles in this metagame, I think it would be really fun after a bit of work is done. This post will be about the mons(/moves) I think to be the most centralizing or broken right now, then I will talk about mons I think are very good, but not ban-worthy in the slightest. (This is just an overview of their roles, really, but I think it is fun. :x)

Shell Smash: This group has 3 users, and all 3 of these users are all equally deadly and very centralizing. I also believe the attempt to salvage Shell Smash by banning the single-most broken user of the move was a good attempt, but due to the move as a whole being extremely potent and overpowered, it didn't help all that much. (Free Omanyte and get rid of Shell Smash as a whole imo!)
  • Clamperl: Clamperl hits an insane amount of SpA with Deepsea Tooth, and adding Shell Smash to this equation just makes Clamperl even more deadly. Shell Smash boosts an already insane amount of SpA and alleviates Clamperl's mediocre Speed problems, allowing it to easily sweep through teams. The only switchins for Clamperl I've found as of late are defensive Snover and Slowpoke.
  • Shellder: Shellder has great bulk in this metagame, which allows it to forego Eviolite for my personal favorite on this mon: King's Rock. King's Rock makes an already annoying strategy even more annoying by granting Shellder a 50% chance to flinch its target if it uses a multi-hit move, thanks to Skill Link. Aside from these great coverage moves, Shellder also has priority in Ice Shard if you feel you don't need your Water-type STAB of Razor Shell.
  • Binacle: The last, least used, and often forgotten member of our trio. Due to its extremely low use, most of this section will be that of theorymon. However, it has great STABs of Stone Edge and Razor Shell, the latter being boosted by Tough Claws, as well as other Tough Claws-boosted like Cross Chop and Poison Jab. On top of these, its interesting movepool also has Switcheroo which allows it to dump a Choice Band on a wall like Slowpoke or Hippopotas, making these targets much more easily disposed of due to their now lacking Eviolite. Binacle's typing also allows it to potentially have more opportunities to set up a Shell Smash than the former two, as it can come in on Normal- and Flying-types due to it resisting their STABs. This also makes it a decent check to bird spam.
Doduo: Doduo is probably the most broken on in the metagame, barring those with Shell Smash. Doduo has an incredible offensive prowess on par with no other, 18 Speed which is a God-send,amazing STABs in Brave Bird and Return, and Knock Off allowing it to remove Eviolites to let itself wallbreak much more easily, and this also helps out its Shell Smashing teammates of Shellder and Clamperl. While many think that it will likely just end up killing itself, this usually doesn't occur until after it has done what it needs to allow Shellder or Clamperl sweep and finish the match. This thought is also a testament as to how deadly Doduo truly is.

Gothita: Gothita's ability to trap and ill any targets of choosing makes it easily one of the most broken mons in the metagame. This is highlighted even more so due to the only decent Pursuit Trapper being Stunky, and its SpA stat being pretty decent by LC UU standards. With ORAS tutors, it can now run Trick while having Shadow Tag as an ability, meaning it can wallbreak as well as revenge kill.

Now onto those that are good, but not quite on a ban-worthy level:
Pancham: ORAS gave Pancham an extraordinary amount of toys to play with, including new STABs of Drain Punch and Superpower, and coverage options including Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Gunk Shot, the Elemental Punches, and many other moves. Pancham is a great pivot due to it hitting great bulk of 25/14/12 while maintaining a strong 18 Atk stat and having the move Parting Shot, which also allows Shell Smashers to set up much more easily. It can also run a decent wallbreaking set that foregoes the use of Parting Shot in order to set up Swords Dance, which hits great bulk of 23/14/12, but also hits 13 Spe and 18 Atk. This set means it hits a good benchmark Speed-wise, and has a 36 Atk stat after a single Sword Dance. However, this Speed stat is still quite slow, meaning it is easily revenge killed by the likes of Doduo, Taillow, Elekid, and many others. However, this cute little panda can be a huge threat for defensively oriented teams to face.

Pumpkaboo: With the addition of Synthesis from ORAS tutors, we now have both an incredible wall and amazing spinblocker in the tier. It hits 25/16/14 defensive stats, and has Will-O-Wisp to support the team further, and has offensive options like Bullet Seed, which has incredible rolls in LC, Shadow Sneak, and Rock Slide. The latter is a neat option for Pumpkaboo because it can hit Flying-types like Doduo and Taillow on the switch as the expect to sponge a Bullet Seed or Shadow Sneak. This little pumpkin has proven to be a decent check toShell Smashers, as well, as it lives Shellder's Icicle Spear, if I am not mistaken.

Skrelp: With Adaptability now available, we've gained yet another wallbreaker. It has a great movepool that includes Scald, Hydro Pump, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Thunderbolt, Icy Wind, and even Dragon Pulse specially, as well as Aqua Tail, Waterfall, Gunk Shot, and Play Rough physically. It also has support options including Haze, Toxic Spikes, and Icy Wind. It also has a great typing which allows it to check every Shell Smasher, Pancham, Riolu, and many other offensive pokemon.

Hype:
Stunky: Probably the best answer to Gothita in LC UU, and Stunky is also the only good Pursuit Trapper we have. It has a good typing, good movepool, and incredible Speed. Its movepool consists of options like Fire Blast (or Flamethrower), Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Sludge Bomb Taunt, Pursuit, Explosion, Memento, and Haze. Due to these assorted moves, it is easy for Stunky to fit onto your team and fulfill roles other than expunging Gothita issues.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top